More evidence that nazism was left wing

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More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:25 am

First topic message reminder :



"...Lenin is the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and that the difference between Communism and the Hitler faith is very slight..."

Joseph Goebbels


lol!

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 1:38 pm

Yawn...

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 3:06 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Hitler's views on economics
Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[14] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."[15] At a later time, Hitler said: "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether... What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism."[13] The term that Hitler later wished he had used for his political party name was “social revolutionary.”[16] In private, Hitler also said that "I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative".[17] On yet another occasion he qualified that statement by saying that the government should have the power to regulate the use of private property for the good of the nation.[18] Shortly after coming to power, Hitler told a confidant: "There is no license any more, no private sphere where the individual belongs to himself. That is socialism, not such trivial matters as the possibility of privately owning the means of production. Such things mean nothing if I subject people to a kind of discipline they can't escape...What need have we to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings".[19] He clearly believed that the lack of a precise economic programme was one of the Nazi Party's strengths, saying: "The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all."[20] While not espousing a specific economic philosophy, Hitler employed anti-semitic themes to attack economic systems in other countries, associating ethnic Jews with both communism ("Jewish Bolsheviks") and capitalism, both of which he opposed.[21][22]


wikipedia

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 3:10 pm

So again we know the privatization of national assets in the Public sector is not anything remotely left wing.

Why did the Nazi's allow the privatization of the railways, banks and steel works etc?



Although the Nazi Party election programs supported nationalization of major industries, the Nazi government included a few actual policies of privatization in the 1930s.[52] Between the fiscal years 1934/35 and 1937/38, privatization represented 1.4 percent of the German government's revenues.[53]Among companies that were privatized, were the four major commercial banks in Germany that had all come under public ownership during the prior years; Commerz– und Privatbank, Deutsche Bank und Disconto-Gesellschaft, Golddiskontbank and Dresdner Bank. Instead of making important investment decisions, and determining the use to which their funds were to be put, the private banks merely had to provide the technical facilities for covering government expenditure or financing new investment—the volume and composition of which had been previously settled by the government.[54][clarification needed] Also privatized were the Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways), at the time the largest single public enterprise in the world, the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks), the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was IG Farben) and Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG, a company controlling all of the metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The government also sold a number of shipbuilding companies, and enhanced private utilities at the expense of municipally owned utilities company


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 4:04 pm

Thorin wrote:So again we know the privatization of national assets in the Public sector is not anything remotely left wing.

Why did the Nazi's allow the privatization of the railways, banks and steel works etc?



Although the Nazi Party election programs supported nationalization of major industries, the Nazi government included a few actual policies of privatization in the 1930s.[52] Between the fiscal years 1934/35 and 1937/38, privatization represented 1.4 percent of the German government's revenues.[53] Among companies that were privatized, were the four major commercial banks in Germany that had all come under public ownership during the prior years; Commerz– und Privatbank, Deutsche Bank und Disconto-Gesellschaft, Golddiskontbank and Dresdner Bank. Instead of making important investment decisions, and determining the use to which their funds were to be put, the private banks merely had to provide the technical facilities for covering government expenditure or financing new investment —the volume and composition of which had been previously settled by the government.[54][clarification needed] Also privatized were the Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways), at the time the largest single public enterprise in the world, the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks), the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was IG Farben) and Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG, a company controlling all of the metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The government also sold a number of shipbuilding companies, and enhanced private utilities at the expense of municipally owned utilities company


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany


The nazis (like every left wing/socialist govt) were in favour of nationalising major industries, as stated... but just like the rest, were spending far too much and borrowing far too much to pay for all the infrastructure projects they ordered... so they had to sell off a few things to help towards paying for it all...


And (in case you didnt notice the other bit i highlighted) they set the banks up with being liable for covering the costs of much of any future investments/borrowing too!!!



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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 4:13 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:So again we know the privatization of national assets in the Public sector is not anything remotely left wing.

Why did the Nazi's allow the privatization of the railways, banks and steel works etc?



Although the Nazi Party election programs supported nationalization of major industries, the Nazi government included a few actual policies of privatization in the 1930s.[52] Between the fiscal years 1934/35 and 1937/38, privatization represented 1.4 percent of the German government's revenues.[53] Among companies that were privatized, were the four major commercial banks in Germany that had all come under public ownership during the prior years; Commerz– und Privatbank, Deutsche Bank und Disconto-Gesellschaft, Golddiskontbank and Dresdner Bank. Instead of making important investment decisions, and determining the use to which their funds were to be put, the private banks merely had to provide the technical facilities for covering government expenditure or financing new investment —the volume and composition of which had been previously settled by the government.[54][clarification needed] Also privatized were the Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways), at the time the largest single public enterprise in the world, the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks), the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was IG Farben) and Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG, a company controlling all of the metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The government also sold a number of shipbuilding companies, and enhanced private utilities at the expense of municipally owned utilities company


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany


The nazis (like every left wing/socialist govt) were in favour of nationalising major industries, as stated... but just like the rest, were spending far too much and borrowing far too much to pay for all the infrastructure projects they ordered... so they had to sell off a few things to help towards paying for it all...


And (in case you didnt notice the other bit i highlighted) they set the banks up with being liable for covering the costs of much of any future investments/borrowing too!!!




You are just repeating yourself Tommy.
Again you ignore the blatant fact they allowed the privatization of the Public sector.
Hitler even backed Free Markets, which is capitalism
You simple do not even understand Politics or history

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Eilzel on Fri May 05, 2017 4:22 pm

He knows how to underline the parts that support Hitler being a socialist, while ignoring all the parts that suggest otherwise. With no sense of irony implied either.

Seriously tommy do you just not read anything contrary to your view?

Hitler did not believe in equality of peoole or opportunities. Therefore, he was not a socialist. It is as simple as that. Any policy he enacted that might have resembled socialism was not done to create an equal society but to strengthen the nationalist militarist regime.

Hitler expressed regret at ever using the word socialism even in the passage you pasted earlier. He was not a socialist.

If a few socialistic policies make a party LW then you could call the Conservatives LW. Likewise if any support for capitaliam makes a party RW then Labour can be called RW.

The Nazis were overwhelmingly defined by their nationalism and were a RW party.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 4:31 pm

Eilzel wrote:He knows how to underline the parts that support Hitler being a socialist, while ignoring all the parts that suggest otherwise. With no sense of irony implied either.

Seriously tommy do you just not read anything contrary to your view?

Hitler did not believe in equality of peoole or opportunities. Therefore, he was not a socialist. It is as simple as that. Any policy he enacted that might have resembled socialism was not done to create an equal society but to strengthen the nationalist militarist regime.

Hitler expressed regret at ever using the word socialism even in the passage you pasted earlier. He was not a socialist.

If a few socialistic policies make a party LW then you could call the Conservatives LW. Likewise if any support for capitaliam makes a party RW then Labour can be called RW.

The Nazis were overwhelmingly defined by their nationalism and were a RW party.


Well we could be here forever trying to convince, but its easier to show that Tommy's views are in error so badly.

For example

The Nazi's as seen were certainly not anti-capitalist, but very much capitalist

They allowed the privatization of public sectors, which helped the Germany economy and businesses thrive. Basically even though Hitler had basically bankrupted the country by 1939 and why he needed to go to war to plunder wealth. There is no doubt his polices to allow the free markets saw the stock markets thrive also.

Just take a look










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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 4:56 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


The nazis (like every left wing/socialist govt) were in favour of nationalising major industries, as stated... but just like the rest, were spending far too much and borrowing far too much to pay for all the infrastructure projects they ordered... so they had to sell off a few things to help towards paying for it all...


And (in case you didnt notice the other bit i highlighted) they set the banks up with being liable for covering the costs of much of any future investments/borrowing too!!!




You are just repeating yourself Tommy.
Again you ignore the blatant fact they allowed the privatization of the Public sector.
Hitler even backed Free Markets, which is capitalism
You simple do not even understand Politics or history



I'm not repeating myself... just trying to help you to see the bigger picture...

You simply do not know as much about politics or history as you like to think that you do... and you dont understand anything about economics...!!!

Maybe this might help...



"We were not foolish enough to try to make a currency [backed by] gold of which we had none, but for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced. . . .we laugh at the time our national financiers held the view that the value of a currency is regulated by the gold and securities lying in the vaults of a state bank."
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in "Hitler's Monetary System," www.rense.com, citing C. C. Veith, Citadels of
   Chaos (Meador, 1949)
Guernsey wasn't the only government to solve its infrastructure problems by issuing its own money. (See E. Brown, "Waking Up on a Minnesota Bridge," www.webofdebt.com/articles/infrastructure-crisis.php, August 4, 2007.) A more notorious model is found in post-World War I Germany. When Hitler came to power, the country was completely, hopelessly broke. The Treaty of Versailles had imposed crushing reparations payments on the German people, who were expected to reimburse the costs of the war for all participants — costs totaling three times the value of all the property in the country. Speculation in the German mark had caused it to plummet, precipitating one of the worst runaway inflations in modern times. At its peak, a wheelbarrow full of 100 billion-mark banknotes could not buy a loaf of bread. The national treasury was empty, and huge numbers of homes and farms had been lost to the banks and speculators. People were living in hovels and starving. Nothing quite like it had ever happened before - the total destruction of the national currency, wiping out people's savings, their businesses, and the economy generally. Making matters worse, at the end of the decade global depression hit. Germany had no choice but to succumb to debt slavery to international lenders.


Or so it seemed. Hitler and the National Socialists, who came to power in 1933, thwarted the international banking cartel by issuing their own money. In this they took their cue from Abraham Lincoln, who funded the American Civil War with government-issued paper money called "Greenbacks." Hitler began his national credit program by devising a plan of public works. Projects earmarked for funding included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new buildings, roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. The projected cost of the various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. One billion non-inflationary bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates, were then issued against this cost. Millions of people were put to work on these projects, and the workers were paid with the Treasury Certificates. This government-issued money wasn't backed by gold, but it was backed by something of real value. It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, "for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced." The workers then spent the Certificates on other goods and services, creating more jobs for more people.

Within two years, the unemployment problem had been solved and the country was back on its feet. It had a solid, stable currency, no debt, and no inflation, at a time when millions of people in the United States and other Western countries were still out of work and living on welfare. Germany even managed to restore foreign trade, although it was denied foreign credit and was faced with an economic boycott abroad. It did this by using a barter system: equipment and commodities were exchanged directly with other countries, circumventing the international banks. This system of direct exchange occurred without debt and without trade deficits. Germany's economic experiment, like Lincoln's, was short-lived; but it left some lasting monuments to its success, including the famous Autobahn, the world's first extensive superhighway.1

Hjalmar Schacht, who was then head of the German central bank, is quoted in a bit of wit that sums up the German version of the "Greenback" miracle. An American banker had commented, "Dr. Schacht, you should come to America. We've lots of money and that's real banking." Schacht replied, "You should come to Berlin. We don't have money. That's real banking."2

Although Hitler has rightfully gone down in infamy in the history books, he was quite popular with the German people, at least for a time. Stephen Zarlenga suggests in The Lost Science of Money that this was because he temporarily rescued Germany from English economic theory — the theory that money must be borrowed against the gold reserves of a private banking cartel rather than issued outright by the government.3 According to Canadian researcher Dr. Henry Makow, this may have been a chief reason Hitler had to be stopped: he had sidestepped the international bankers and created his own money. Makow quotes from the 1938 interrogation of C. G. Rakovsky, one of the founders of Soviet Bolsevism and a Trotsky intimate, who was tried in show trials in the USSR under Stalin. According to Rakovsky, Hitler had actually been funded by the international bankers, through their agent Hjalmar Schacht, in order to control Stalin, who had usurped power from their agent Trotsky. But Hitler had become an even bigger threat than Stalin when he had taken the bold step of printing his own money. Rakovsky said:

[Hitler] took over for himself the privilege of manufacturing money and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones; he took over the untouched machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the state . . . . Are you capable of imagining what would have come . . . if it had infected a number of other states . . . . If you can, then imagine its counterrevolutionary functions.4
Economist Henry C K Liu writes of Germany's remarkable transformation:

The Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, at a time when its economy was in total collapse, with ruinous war-reparation obligations and zero prospects for foreign investment or credit. Yet through an independent monetary policy of sovereign credit and a full-employment public-works program, the Third Reich was able to turn a bankrupt Germany, stripped of overseas colonies it could exploit, into the strongest economy in Europe within four years, even before armament spending began.5
In Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People (1984), Sheldon Emry commented:

Germany issued debt-free and interest-free money from 1935 and on, accounting for its startling rise from the depression to a world power in 5 years. Germany financed its entire government and war operation from 1935 to 1945 without gold and without debt, and it took the whole Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German power over Europe and bring Europe back under the heel of the Bankers. Such history of money does not even appear in the textbooks of public (government) schools today.

Another Look at the Weimar Hyperinflation

What does appear in modern textbooks is the disastrous runaway inflation suffered in 1923 by the Weimar Republic (the common name for the republic that governed Germany from 1919 to 1933). The radical devaluation of the German mark is cited as the textbook example of what can go wrong when governments are given the unfettered power to print money. That is what it is cited for; but in the complex world of economics, things are not always as they seem. The Weimar financial crisis began with the impossible reparations payments imposed at the Treaty of Versailles. Schacht, who was currency commissioner for the Republic, complained:

The Treaty of Versailles is a model of ingenious measures for the economic destruction of Germany. . . . [T]he Reich could not find any way of holding its head above the water other than by the inflationary expedient of printing bank notes.


That is what he said at first. But Zarlenga writes that Schacht proceeded in his 1967 book The Magic of Money "to let the cat out of the bag, writing in German, with some truly remarkable admissions that shatter the 'accepted wisdom' the financial community has promulgated on the German hyperinflation."6 Schacht revealed that it was the privately-owned Reichsbank, not the German government, that was pumping new currency into the economy. Like the U.S. Federal Reserve, the Reichsbank was overseen by appointed government officials but was operated for private gain. What drove the wartime inflation into hyperinflation was speculation by foreign investors, who would sell the mark short, betting on its decreasing value. In the manipulative device known as the short sale, speculators borrow something they don't own, sell it, then "cover" by buying it back at the lower price. Speculation in the German mark was made possible because the Reichsbank made massive amounts of currency available for borrowing, marks that were created with accounting entries on the bank's books and lent at a profitable interest. When the Reichsbank could not keep up with the voracious demand for marks, other private banks were allowed to create them out of nothing and lend them at interest as well.7

According to Schacht, then, not only did the government not cause the Weimar hyperinflation, but it was the government that got it under control. The Reichsbank was put under strict government regulation, and prompt corrective measures were taken to eliminate foreign speculation, by eliminating easy access to loans of bank-created money. Hitler then got the country back on its feet with his Treasury Certificates issued Greenback-style by the government.


http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/bankrupt-germany.php

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 5:03 pm

Yes i am well aware that Germany was bankrupt by 1939 as I already stated, based on his keynesian economics. He ploughed countless money into trying to gain employment  for the German people on state projects and military spending. Of which he out spent the wealth of the Capitalist economy he backed.

Who now who is simply copying and pasting and showing they have no comprehension of what they are talking about?

As seen the Nazi's backed Capitalism and were pioneers in the privatization of the public sector something very much a right wing policy.

So your argument is sunk on the economics of the Nazi's Tommy.

Do you have anything left to back your view they were Far Left?

Because no Far Left system would allow for the privatization of any of the public sector. I mean you want to look at similarities to Stalin. Well private ownership was outlawed in Stalin's Russia. The Nazi's had no objection to private ownership, except that of Jews.

How does that equate to your view they were Far Left Tommy?

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 7:29 pm

Eilzel wrote:He knows how to underline the parts that support Hitler being a socialist, while ignoring all the parts that suggest otherwise. With no sense of irony implied either.

Seriously tommy do you just not read anything contrary to your view?

Hitler did not believe in equality of peoole or opportunities. Therefore, he was not a socialist. It is as simple as that. Any policy he enacted that might have resembled socialism was not done to create an equal society but to strengthen the nationalist militarist regime.

Hitler expressed regret at ever using the word socialism even in the passage you pasted earlier. He was not a socialist.

If a few socialistic policies make a party LW then you could call the Conservatives LW. Likewise if any support for capitaliam makes a party RW then Labour can be called RW.

The Nazis were overwhelmingly defined by their nationalism and were a RW party.


Clearly showing that you have no idea what you are talking about!!!



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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 7:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:He knows how to underline the parts that support Hitler being a socialist, while ignoring all the parts that suggest otherwise. With no sense of irony implied either.

Seriously tommy do you just not read anything contrary to your view?

Hitler did not believe in equality of peoole or opportunities. Therefore, he was not a socialist. It is as simple as that. Any policy he enacted that might have resembled socialism was not done to create an equal society but to strengthen the nationalist militarist regime.

Hitler expressed regret at ever using the word socialism even in the passage you pasted earlier. He was not a socialist.

If a few socialistic policies make a party LW then you could call the Conservatives LW. Likewise if any support for capitaliam makes a party RW then Labour can be called RW.

The Nazis were overwhelmingly defined by their nationalism and were a RW party.


Clearly showing that you have no idea what you are talking about!!!




Is that why you ran away from my posts?

Eilzel is right, you cannot answer his points and again give poor copout answers

Where is the equality in Nazi policies?

You really have been weighed, measured and left found wanting here Tommy.

You did me a favour, because you made me refer to my notes when I studied

You are done here and you have been shown to be very wrong.

This is a lesson for you, at least I can admit when at times when wrong.

I have never seen you admit when wrong, even though you have been many times and here all can see you have been.

This debate is now over

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 7:47 pm

Thorin wrote:Yes i am well aware that Germany was bankrupt by 1939 as I already stated, based on his keynesian economics. He ploughed countless money into trying to gain employment  for the German people on state projects and military spending. Of which he out spent the wealth of the Capitalist economy he backed.

Who now who is simply copying and pasting and showing they have no comprehension of what they are talking about?

As seen the Nazi's backed Capitalism and were pioneers in the privatization of the public sector something very much a right wing policy.

So your argument is sunk on the economics of the Nazi's Tommy.

Do you have anything left to back your view they were Far Left?

Because no Far Left system would allow for the privatization of any of the public sector. I mean you want to look at similarities to Stalin. Well private ownership was outlawed in Stalin's Russia. The Nazi's had no objection to private ownership, except that of Jews.

How does that equate to your view they were Far Left Tommy?


Germany was financially ruined before the nazis took over in 1933... and if you read the article above, it explains how they quickly turned things around, and all for the benefit of the german people... socialist style!!!

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 7:47 pm

Oh and please have the last word if you must, but as far as I am concerned, you have repeatedly failed to counter countless points which easily debunk your claims the Nazi's were Far Left. Your motives gave away what was poor with your arguments and lies here. They were never yours. You just read loads of neoconservative politically motivated bullshit and tried to pass it off as if you even understood it and clearly never did. You sadly buy into bullshit, because you always are led by confirmation bias. Based on your political motivations. You are incapable of being impartial.

Night Tommy.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 7:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:Yes i am well aware that Germany was bankrupt by 1939 as I already stated, based on his keynesian economics. He ploughed countless money into trying to gain employment  for the German people on state projects and military spending. Of which he out spent the wealth of the Capitalist economy he backed.

Who now who is simply copying and pasting and showing they have no comprehension of what they are talking about?

As seen the Nazi's backed Capitalism and were pioneers in the privatization of the public sector something very much a right wing policy.

So your argument is sunk on the economics of the Nazi's Tommy.

Do you have anything left to back your view they were Far Left?

Because no Far Left system would allow for the privatization of any of the public sector. I mean you want to look at similarities to Stalin. Well private ownership was outlawed in Stalin's Russia. The Nazi's had no objection to private ownership, except that of Jews.

How does that equate to your view they were Far Left Tommy?


Germany was financially ruined before the nazis took over in 1933... and if you read the article above, it explains how they quickly turned things around, and all for the benefit of the german people... socialist style!!!

No the wall street crash ruined the global economy, which vastly effected Germany.
Showing again you have no idea what you are talking about, let alone the massive 33 billion payments the Germans agreed to pay after the Treaty of Versailles.

Yes it explains how the Nazi's embraced capitalism. They pioneered the privatization of the public sector and allowed private enterprise from a free market.

All aspects of Capitalism

Again:
Because no Far Left system would allow for the privatization of any of the public sector. I mean you want to look at similarities to Stalin. Well private ownership was outlawed in Stalin's Russia. The Nazi's had no objection to private ownership, except that of Jews.

For goodness sake, its clear you never passed history


So zero to counter my points again

Seriously, you are an utter joke Tommy on history, you pissed me off that much, I had to go back and get out my notes on my degree.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 8:06 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You are just repeating yourself Tommy.
Again you ignore the blatant fact they allowed the privatization of the Public sector.
Hitler even backed Free Markets, which is capitalism
You simple do not even understand Politics or history



I'm not repeating myself... just trying to help you to see the bigger picture...

You simply do not know as much about politics or history as you like to think that you do... and you dont understand anything about economics...!!!

Maybe this might help...



"We were not foolish enough to try to make a currency [backed by] gold of which we had none, but for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced. . . .we laugh at the time our national financiers held the view that the value of a currency is regulated by the gold and securities lying in the vaults of a state bank."
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in "Hitler's Monetary System," www.rense.com, citing C. C. Veith, Citadels of
   Chaos (Meador, 1949)
Guernsey wasn't the only government to solve its infrastructure problems by issuing its own money. (See E. Brown, "Waking Up on a Minnesota Bridge," www.webofdebt.com/articles/infrastructure-crisis.php, August 4, 2007.) A more notorious model is found in post-World War I Germany. When Hitler came to power, the country was completely, hopelessly broke. The Treaty of Versailles had imposed crushing reparations payments on the German people, who were expected to reimburse the costs of the war for all participants — costs totaling three times the value of all the property in the country. Speculation in the German mark had caused it to plummet, precipitating one of the worst runaway inflations in modern times. At its peak, a wheelbarrow full of 100 billion-mark banknotes could not buy a loaf of bread. The national treasury was empty, and huge numbers of homes and farms had been lost to the banks and speculators. People were living in hovels and starving. Nothing quite like it had ever happened before - the total destruction of the national currency, wiping out people's savings, their businesses, and the economy generally. Making matters worse, at the end of the decade global depression hit. Germany had no choice but to succumb to debt slavery to international lenders.


Or so it seemed. Hitler and the National Socialists, who came to power in 1933, thwarted the international banking cartel by issuing their own money. In this they took their cue from Abraham Lincoln, who funded the American Civil War with government-issued paper money called "Greenbacks." Hitler began his national credit program by devising a plan of public works. Projects earmarked for funding included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new buildings, roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. The projected cost of the various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. One billion non-inflationary bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates, were then issued against this cost. Millions of people were put to work on these projects, and the workers were paid with the Treasury Certificates. This government-issued money wasn't backed by gold, but it was backed by something of real value. It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, "for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced." The workers then spent the Certificates on other goods and services, creating more jobs for more people.

Within two years, the unemployment problem had been solved and the country was back on its feet. It had a solid, stable currency, no debt, and no inflation, at a time when millions of people in the United States and other Western countries were still out of work and living on welfare. Germany even managed to restore foreign trade, although it was denied foreign credit and was faced with an economic boycott abroad. It did this by using a barter system: equipment and commodities were exchanged directly with other countries, circumventing the international banks. This system of direct exchange occurred without debt and without trade deficits.
Germany's economic experiment, like Lincoln's, was short-lived; but it left some lasting monuments to its success, including the famous Autobahn, the world's first extensive superhighway.1

Hjalmar Schacht, who was then head of the German central bank, is quoted in a bit of wit that sums up the German version of the "Greenback" miracle. An American banker had commented, "Dr. Schacht, you should come to America. We've lots of money and that's real banking." Schacht replied, "You should come to Berlin. We don't have money. That's real banking."2

Although Hitler has rightfully gone down in infamy in the history books, he was quite popular with the German people, at least for a time. Stephen Zarlenga suggests in The Lost Science of Money that this was because he temporarily rescued Germany from English economic theory — the theory that money must be borrowed against the gold reserves of a private banking cartel rather than issued outright by the government.3 According to Canadian researcher Dr. Henry Makow, this may have been a chief reason Hitler had to be stopped: he had sidestepped the international bankers and created his own money. Makow quotes from the 1938 interrogation of C. G. Rakovsky, one of the founders of Soviet Bolsevism and a Trotsky intimate, who was tried in show trials in the USSR under Stalin. According to Rakovsky, Hitler had actually been funded by the international bankers, through their agent Hjalmar Schacht, in order to control Stalin, who had usurped power from their agent Trotsky. But Hitler had become an even bigger threat than Stalin when he had taken the bold step of printing his own money. Rakovsky said:

[Hitler] took over for himself the privilege of manufacturing money and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones; he took over the untouched machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the state . . . . Are you capable of imagining what would have come . . . if it had infected a number of other states . . . . If you can, then imagine its counterrevolutionary functions.4
Economist Henry C K Liu writes of Germany's remarkable transformation:

The Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, at a time when its economy was in total collapse, with ruinous war-reparation obligations and zero prospects for foreign investment or credit. Yet through an independent monetary policy of sovereign credit and a full-employment public-works program, the Third Reich was able to turn a bankrupt Germany, stripped of overseas colonies it could exploit, into the strongest economy in Europe within four years, even before armament spending began.5
In Billions for the Bankers, Debts for the People (1984), Sheldon Emry commented:

Germany issued debt-free and interest-free money from 1935 and on, accounting for its startling rise from the depression to a world power in 5 years. Germany financed its entire government and war operation from 1935 to 1945 without gold and without debt, and it took the whole Capitalist and Communist world to destroy the German power over Europe and bring Europe back under the heel of the Bankers. Such history of money does not even appear in the textbooks of public (government) schools today.

Another Look at the Weimar Hyperinflation

What does appear in modern textbooks is the disastrous runaway inflation suffered in 1923 by the Weimar Republic (the common name for the republic that governed Germany from 1919 to 1933). The radical devaluation of the German mark is cited as the textbook example of what can go wrong when governments are given the unfettered power to print money. That is what it is cited for; but in the complex world of economics, things are not always as they seem. The Weimar financial crisis began with the impossible reparations payments imposed at the Treaty of Versailles. Schacht, who was currency commissioner for the Republic, complained:

The Treaty of Versailles is a model of ingenious measures for the economic destruction of Germany. . . . [T]he Reich could not find any way of holding its head above the water other than by the inflationary expedient of printing bank notes.


That is what he said at first. But Zarlenga writes that Schacht proceeded in his 1967 book The Magic of Money "to let the cat out of the bag, writing in German, with some truly remarkable admissions that shatter the 'accepted wisdom' the financial community has promulgated on the German hyperinflation."6 Schacht revealed that it was the privately-owned Reichsbank, not the German government, that was pumping new currency into the economy. Like the U.S. Federal Reserve, the Reichsbank was overseen by appointed government officials but was operated for private gain. What drove the wartime inflation into hyperinflation was speculation by foreign investors, who would sell the mark short, betting on its decreasing value. In the manipulative device known as the short sale, speculators borrow something they don't own, sell it, then "cover" by buying it back at the lower price. Speculation in the German mark was made possible because the Reichsbank made massive amounts of currency available for borrowing, marks that were created with accounting entries on the bank's books and lent at a profitable interest. When the Reichsbank could not keep up with the voracious demand for marks, other private banks were allowed to create them out of nothing and lend them at interest as well.7

According to Schacht, then, not only did the government not cause the Weimar hyperinflation, but it was the government that got it under control. The Reichsbank was put under strict government regulation, and prompt corrective measures were taken to eliminate foreign speculation, by eliminating easy access to loans of bank-created money. Hitler then got the country back on its feet with his Treasury Certificates issued Greenback-style by the government.


http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/bankrupt-germany.php

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 8:07 pm

So we are back to Tommy spamming and not able to counter points

True Socialism is anti-Capitalism

Nazi Germany backed Capitalism

Game over

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 8:19 pm

Right, I am off to bed, but as seen Tommy you have nothing to counter many of the countless posts from myself, Eilzel and Quill.

Goodnight

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 8:20 pm

Thorin wrote:So we are back to Tommy spamming and not able to counter points

True Socialism is anti-Capitalism

Nazi Germany backed Capitalism

Game over
Not so didge... the nazis effectively bypassed the capitalist systems and recreated what was essentially a barter based system instead...



Hitler and the National Socialists, who came to power in 1933, thwarted the international banking cartel by issuing their own money. In this they took their cue from Abraham Lincoln, who funded the American Civil War with government-issued paper money called "Greenbacks." Hitler began his national credit program by devising a plan of public works. Projects earmarked for funding included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new buildings, roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. The projected cost of the various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. One billion non-inflationary bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates, were then issued against this cost. Millions of people were put to work on these projects, and the workers were paid with the Treasury Certificates. This government-issued money wasn't backed by gold, but it was backed by something of real value. It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, "for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark's worth of work done or goods produced." The workers then spent the Certificates on other goods and services, creating more jobs for more people.


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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 8:29 pm

No tommy that is more spam and not a counter to all the posts.

Hitler privatized many banks

No the wall street crash ruined the global economy, which vastly effected Germany.
Showing again you have no idea what you are talking about, let alone the massive 33 billion payments the Germans agreed to pay after the Treaty of Versailles.

Yes it explains how the Nazi's embraced capitalism. They pioneered the privatization of the public sector and allowed private enterprise from a free market.

All aspects of Capitalism

Again:
Because no Far Left system would allow for the privatization of any of the public sector. I mean you want to look at similarities to Stalin. Well private ownership was outlawed in Stalin's Russia. The Nazi's had no objection to private ownership, except that of Jews.

For goodness sake, its clear you never passed history


So zero to counter my points again

Seriously, you are an utter joke Tommy on history, you pissed me off that much, I had to go back and get out my notes on my degree.

Try again

Last chance

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 05, 2017 8:49 pm

Laughing

What we'all have learned from Tommy the Troll's idiotic posts here, so far :

* Tommy (still) believes that he's a "genius";

* Tommy doesn't understand basic English --  he obviously believes that words can mean whatever he wants them to meen;

* Tommy can't even comprehend what he posts himself;

* Tommy doesn't understand basic economics;

* Tommy doesn't undestand political systems..

* Tommy is completely incapable of conducting an intelligent and rational discussion.        Arrow


Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 05, 2017 8:52 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 8:50 pm


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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 8:54 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Laughing

What we'all have learned from Tommy the Troll's idiotic posts here, so far :

* Tommy (still) believes that he's a "genius";

* Tommy doesn't understand basic English --  he obviously believes that words can mean whatever he wants them to meen;

* Tommy can't even comprehend what he posts himself;

* Tommy doesn't understand basic economics;

* Tommy doesn't undestand political systems..

* Tommy is completely incapable of conducting an intelligent and rational discussion.        Arrow

Its embarrassing, especially after his last link mate.

I mean where does It say Socialism was Nazism?

Doh

And dont forget his claim is Nazism is Far left lol

I even allowed him many chances and all he could do is post links and not even tackle the points raised.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 9:01 pm

I just read through the link lol

Does it back privatization of public services?

Oh my, how embarrassing and is very anti-capitalism.

Enough, this is pointless trying to educate.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri May 05, 2017 9:06 pm

Thorin wrote:So we are back to Tommy spamming and not able to counter points

True Socialism is anti-Capitalism

Nazi Germany backed Capitalism

Game over



lol!



Isn't socialism what they had in Russia, or in China or Cuba, or in Sweden?
No. Socialism, as understood by the World Socialist Movement, was never established in any country. A short definition of what we understand to be socialism:

a system of society based upon the common ownership and democratic control of the means and instruments for producing and distributing wealth by and in the interest of society as a whole.
If there are wages and salaries, it is not socialism.
State ownership is not socialism.
Social programs are not socialism.
Socialism means democracy at all levels of society, including the workplace.
Socialism means a wageless, moneyless society.
Socialism means voluntary labour.
Socialism means free access to the goods produced by society.
With this understanding of socialism, the Socialist Party of Great Britain noted in its journal, the Socialist Standard (August 1918, page 87), that the supposedly "Marxist" Russian Revolution of November 1917 was not socialist.

Wouldn't everyone have to be altruistic for socialism to work?
No. Socialism isn't based upon altruism. Socialism will work even if everyone suddenly decides that they dislike everyone else. Supporting socialism involves recognizing the fact that the current system just doesn't work for most people. Socialism will be a society in which satisfying an individual's self interest is the result of satisfying everyone's needs. It is enlightened self-interest that will work for the majority.

How will socialism be established?
Socialism can only be established by a vast majority of people deciding it wants to establish socialism. Therefore, the World Socialist Movement puts forward the socialist case so that people can decide for themselves.

Once the vast majority makes the decision in favour of socialism, then it will elect socialist representatives or delegates to prove its majority, and to serve as a temporary focal point to administer the elimination of capitalism and the creation of socialism. But it won't be, and could not be, the elected representatives or delegates who create socialism, it will be the people of the world as a whole.

The vast majority of the people of the world are working class, so socialism will be established by the working class. It also means that ordinary people will have to do all of the work required. The capitalist class isn't going to do it, and professional socialists (whatever they might be) aren't going to do it. The only way to establish socialism is for people to work for it.

What if one country establishes socialism and others don't?
One country cannot establish socialism. No country is completely self-sufficient in the resources people need to satisfy their needs. No country can really isolate itself from the rest of the world in a peaceful manner, so a peaceful "socialist nation" would be easy prey for the outside capitalist world. Just as capitalism is a world system, socialism will have to be a world system.

Socialism will be a world without countries. Borders are just artificial barriers that belong to a past and present that is best left behind.

What will socialism be like, how will it be administered?
The World Socialist Movement does not offer a blueprint for administering a socialist society. For a small group of socialists to do so would be undemocratic. It would also be dumb. Socialists don't have crystal balls to determine what the conditions will be when socialism is established. As the socialist majority grows, when socialism is within the grasp of the working class, then will be the proper time for making such important decisions.

The only thing socialists can say now, about administration, is that socialism is only socialism if it is democratic.

The World Socialist Movement talks of a moneyless society; does that mean we'll use the barter system?
In a socialist society, there will be no money and no barter. Goods will be voluntarily produced, and services voluntarily supplied to meet people's needs. People will freely take the things they need.

What about human nature?
Humans behave differently depending upon the conditions that they live in. Even very short term changes in those conditions can change the way people behave. Most of what people refer to as "human nature" is actually human behaviour: reactions to the world around them.

Human behaviour reflects society. In a society such as capitalism, people's needs are not met and reasonable people feel insecure. People tend to acquire and hoard goods because possession provides some security. People have a tendency to distrust others because the world is organized in such a dog-eat-dog manner.

Under capitalism, and the previous systems, people have good reason to worry about tomorrow—they can lose their jobs, or be injured, or grow old, and need a cushion of wealth to fall back on. In a socialist society, everyone is entitled to have their needs met. They won't be kicked out onto the street, or forced to give up the pleasures of life. There will be no poverty. The "cushion" will be cooperatively provided by all.

But why will people work if they don't have to?
People will have to work, but it will be voluntary. If people didn't work society would obviously fall apart. To establish socialism the vast majority must consciously decide that they want socialism and that they are prepared to work in socialist society.

Work is part of human life. Today rich people work when they don't have to, because they, like many of the rest of us, enjoy working. Many people work harder at their hobbies than they do at work. It is the nature of employment that makes it "work" instead of pleasure. Work needn't be a part of the day that we wish would end.
People enjoy creating useful things. Instead of producing junk that people only buy because they can't afford quality, every worker will be able to produce quality products for themselves and others, and know that other workers will be doing the same.
The workday will be shortened. Many jobs (such as those dealing with money, or war, or poverty) will not be required at all. The people doing those jobs now, will perform work that actually produces goods and services that people want.
People will gain respect for doing jobs that others might find unpleasant, or the unpleasant jobs might be shared around. Many of the unpleasant jobs could be made more pleasant and some could be done away with.

Does socialism mean equal shares for everyone?
No. People are different and have different needs. Some needs will be more expensive (in terms of resources and labour needed to satisfy them) than others.


lol!

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Fri May 05, 2017 9:09 pm

lol

So why did Hitler privatize businesses Tommy?

Or back Capitalism?

I see the white flag is up

Does it say privatize Tommy?

And this is the views of a political party that now Tommy is making the standard from?

Priceless

Take your time lol

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Eilzel on Fri May 05, 2017 10:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:He knows how to underline the parts that support Hitler being a socialist, while ignoring all the parts that suggest otherwise. With no sense of irony implied either.

Seriously tommy do you just not read anything contrary to your view?

Hitler did not believe in equality of peoole or opportunities. Therefore, he was not a socialist. It is as simple as that. Any policy he enacted that might have resembled socialism was not done to create an equal society but to strengthen the nationalist militarist regime.

Hitler expressed regret at ever using the word socialism even in the passage you pasted earlier. He was not a socialist.

If a few socialistic policies make a party LW then you could call the Conservatives LW. Likewise if any support for capitaliam makes a party RW then Labour can be called RW.

The Nazis were overwhelmingly defined by their nationalism and were a RW party.


Clearly showing that you have no idea what you are talking about!!!



That's why you have been responding so well to points made... oh wait. Shit that wasn't you.

Waste of time. Bored by you now. I'll just continue watching didge run circles around you.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Clearly showing that you have no idea what you are talking about!!!



That's why you have been responding so well to points made... oh wait. Shit that wasn't you.

Waste of time. Bored by you now. I'll just continue watching didge run circles around you.


From the socialism link i posted before...



Does socialism mean equal shares for everyone?
No. People are different and have different needs. Some needs will be more expensive (in terms of resources and labour needed to satisfy them) than others.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 06, 2017 7:42 am


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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Sat May 06, 2017 7:43 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Clearly showing that you have no idea what you are talking about!!!



That's why you have been responding so well to points made... oh wait. Shit that wasn't you.

Waste of time. Bored by you now. I'll just continue watching didge run circles around you.


Well as seen he refuses to answer points, thinks its all a big joke and clearly its pointless to debate him on something he is clueless on.

Now this debate is truly over

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Sat May 06, 2017 7:47 am



Where do they say this political group that they are comparable or praise the Nazi's on economics, equality etc?

Show me where they share the same privatization views that the Nazis did?

Take your time

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 06, 2017 7:57 am

It was you 2 going on about what 'traditional socialism' and 'true socialism' was/is...

Seems you both dont have a clue what youre talking about...!!!




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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Guest on Sat May 06, 2017 7:59 am

Tommy Monk wrote:It was you 2 going on about what 'traditional socialism' and 'true socialism' was/is...

Seems you both dont have a clue what youre talking about...!!!





So yet again more copout answers

Its you avoiding answering here to both Eilzel and me

So again

Hitler privatized many banks

No the wall street crash ruined the global economy, which vastly effected Germany.
Showing again you have no idea what you are talking about, let alone the massive 33 billion payments the Germans agreed to pay after the Treaty of Versailles.

Yes it explains how the Nazi's embraced capitalism. They pioneered the privatization of the public sector and allowed private enterprise from a free market.

All aspects of Capitalism

Because no Far Left system would allow for the privatization of any of the public sector. I mean you want to look at similarities to Stalin. Well private ownership was outlawed in Stalin's Russia. The Nazi's had no objection to private ownership, except that of Jews.

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Re: More evidence that nazism was left wing

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 06, 2017 11:29 am

Ive already answered...


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