Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

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Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:08 pm

A primary school took children on a trip to meet an Islamic preacher, just months after the High Court ruled the imam an ‘extremist’ who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’. The visits by state school students, aged eight and nine, to meet Shakeel Begg, the imam at the mosque attended by the killers of Lee Rigby, has provoked widespread outrage.

Mr Begg, chief imam at Lewisham Islamic Centre, was described in a High Court judgment at the end of October as a “Jekyll and Hyde character”. Mr Justice Haddon-Cave also warned that Mr Begg’s role as imam put him in a position to “plant the seed of Islamic extremism in a young mind”.






Screenshot from Lewisham Islamic Centre website


One expert said it was “shocking and unacceptable” that a school was arranging visits to a known extremist and accused it of ‘woeful neglect’.

It is shocking and frankly unacceptable that any school should be arranging visits with anyone associated with extremism.

The Year 4 children from Kilmorie Primary School visited Lewisham Islamic Centre in south east London over the course of two days on March 21st and 22nd. Mr Begg hosted a discussion with the pupils.
Details of the visit were posted on the mosque’s website including photographs of the imam with the children sat attentively on the floor.





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/15/children-taken-meet-islamic-preacher-hadpromoted-encouraged/

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Syl on Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:22 pm

Shocking and unacceptable sums this up.
Whoever is organising these trips should be sacked.

Not sure why a known preacher of hate and violence is still at liberty to warp young minds, I believe it's time we stopped this by taking their freedom away....I include All hate preachers, no matter which religion or political persuasion they follow.

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:01 am

Syl wrote:Shocking and unacceptable sums this up.
Whoever is organising these trips should be sacked.

Not sure why a known preacher of hate and violence is still at liberty to warp young minds, I believe it's time we stopped this by  taking their freedom away....I include All hate preachers,  no matter which religion or political persuasion they follow.


Well its not a crime to hold hateful belief. Where again they promote the hate through religious teachings.
Where for the last few thousands years. Religious places of worship have been used as platforms of hate. As wrongly religions tend to be given a privileged status in society with their scriptures. Allowing for hateful religious scripture to be taught. So I agree that said people should lose their Job after being found guilty after an investigation. Just as anyone else faces if they did the same.

He should be at liberty, as he has broken no law.

If this was a teacher at a school though. They would have been after investigation, sacked from teaching children at the school. Though no employer would tolerate such hate and prejudice promoting violence

This Iman runs this Mosque

I though continue to back the rights of Freedom of expression.  

The more telling point here to ask is.

Even after being found guilty of promoting hate and an extremist. That people within the community are still raising funds weekly for the Mosque. As they are a charity based organisation.

So why have not the Muslims that attend the Mosque, called for his resignation as Iman?

To then distance themselves from his extremist views?

There should be no need for the Government to close down a Mosque due to the hate of one Iman. As it them makes all Muslims who attend as culpable to the hate preached by the Iman

Though if as seen. They fail to act. By calling for his resignation from the Mosque. Shows that they do not view him as an extremist.Even worse, clearly some teachers from the School do not class this preacher as an extremist.

That is by far the more concerning part here.

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Syl on Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Sorry Thor, I have made three attempts to answer and I keep losing my posts...I will shorten this.

I...the climate has changed so should the law, its already a crime to incite racial or religious hatred, it needs to be acted upon more.....in fairness to ALL.

https://www.gov.uk/report-hate-crime

2...to let this carry on is not advocating free speech, its condoning terror attacks.
3...This man has as much blood on his hands as the killers of Lee Rigby, more probably, because who knows how many others have been caught up in his brain washing.
4.....Muslim communities do stick together and keep quiet, what goes on in the mosques stays in the mosques, just as what went on in the back streets of Rotherham and Rochdale stayed there....for decades.
Some  Muslims do speak out, they usually make the news or the papers, which sadly sort of proves they are the exception to the rule.
5....I am sure there are as many peace loving Muslims as not, but they must, for their sake and for the people they happily integrate with, stand up and be counted.

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:31 pm

Syl wrote:Sorry Thor, I have made three attempts to answer and I keep losing my posts...I will shorten this.

I...the climate has changed so should the law, its already a crime to incite racial or religious hatred, it needs to be acted upon more.....in fairness to ALL.

https://www.gov.uk/report-hate-crime

2...to let this carry on is not advocating free speech, its condoning terror attacks.
3...This man has as much blood on his hands as the killers of Lee Rigby, more probably, because who knows how many others have been caught up in his brain washing.
4.....Muslim communities do stick together and keep quiet, what goes on in the mosques stays in the mosques, just as what went on in the back streets of Rotherham and Rochdale stayed there....for decades.
Some  Muslims do speak out, they usually make the news or the papers, which sadly sort of proves they are the exception to the rule.
5....I am sure there are as many peace loving Muslims as not, but they must, for their sake and for the people they happily integrate with, stand up and be counted.


Eh?


1) Show me where he has committed hate crimes and against who and why he has not been arrested for hate speech?

As based on your entire answer Syl, you are making some very big assumptions here or anything that this Iman has said.

The Iman Mr Biggs is an Islamist extremist. He follows a Sallafist Islamist world view.

Now I stand completely against his views. That though does not mean we should then censer people based on their extreme beliefs from preaching. We should certainly ensure all school children do not have visits to Mosques led by extremists. But you would have to arrest and charge the vast majority of Sallafist Muslims in this country. Based on their hateful doctrine.

You never tackle extremism, by trying to shut down Free Speech, what you do is instead counter such hate speech with far better reason and sense.

So you went off a misguided belief over things the Iman has said, on which he has not been arrested for hate speech. He sued the BBC for Libel over calling him an extremist and lost. Sallafism is not banned in the UK, though its most definitely an extreme ideology

My biggest concern here, was that even though he rightly lost the case and was thus classed as an extremist. The community of Lewisham in the form of Muslims that attend his Mosque and some schools. Have either ignored, brushed under the carpet, down played the Iman's extremist views. Hence how schools ended up going to visit the Mosque. Question need to be asked over why this happened.

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:37 pm

It happens and it happened because sufficient checks are not carried out on Imams and mosques before allowing parties of school children to visit the. Why aren't they checked? Because too many are terrified of provoking some perceived slight and being branded racist or anti Islamic
Makes me sick
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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:48 pm

Miffs2 wrote:It happens and it happened because sufficient checks are not carried out on Imams and mosques before allowing parties of school children to visit the. Why aren't they checked? Because too many are terrified of provoking some perceived slight and being branded racist or anti Islamic
Makes me sick


I fail to see how the school would not have know Nems, being as he lost the court case back in October and it was in the national news. Sadly Lewisham, is a hot bed for Regressives. Sadly regressive thinking takes control here. Its then not even a case of being too terrified of provoking some perceived slight. As Regressive's have to be able to recognize that there is problems found within Islam. Even though they are able to recognise problems within other religions. There is a simple explanation for how and why Regressives fail to recognise problems within Islam.
As these Regressive suffer from Islamophilia

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamophilia

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:51 pm

If he's ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence" why hasn't he been arrested and convicted?

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by magica on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:15 pm

Schools in these areas often take kids to Mosques as part of their learning of other religions. Been doing it for many years, thing is there are more Muslims in schools now.

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Syl on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:21 pm

magica wrote:Schools in these areas often take kids to Mosques as part of their learning of other religions. Been doing it for many years, thing is there are more Muslims in schools now.

I don't see the harm in that, it wont do kids any harm to see where others pray, include all places of worship though to give a rounded picture.

Taking kids to a mosque where the head preacher is a hate filled racist is ridiculous though. The people who organised the visits should be sacked...and probably investigated themselves.

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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:27 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:Schools in these areas often take kids to Mosques as part of their learning of other religions. Been doing it for many years, thing is there are more Muslims in schools now.

I don't see the harm in that, it wont do kids any harm to see where others pray, include all places of worship though to give a rounded picture.

Taking kids to a mosque where the head preacher is a hate filled racist is ridiculous though. The people who organised the visits should be sacked...and probably investigated themselves.

Yes they should be if they knew, other times the education classes are taken over by the imam without the school realising that this has happened and the implications of this.
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Re: Children taken to meet Islamic preacher who had ‘promoted and encouraged religious violence’

Post by Syl on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:36 pm

Miffs2 wrote:
Syl wrote:

I don't see the harm in that, it wont do kids any harm to see where others pray, include all places of worship though to give a rounded picture.

Taking kids to a mosque where the head preacher is a hate filled racist is ridiculous though. The people who organised the visits should be sacked...and probably investigated themselves.

Yes they should be if they knew, other times the education classes are taken over by the imam without the school realising that this has happened and the implications of this.

I didn't know that Miffs.
But the school surely are ultimately responsible for the children when in their care.
They should do their research more thoroughly. I'm sure if a day out was organised anywhere they would not send the children to a place of danger, so the same thought should go into where they send the kids when they visit different places or worship

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