EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Page 4 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

View previous topic View next topic Go down

EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:47 am

First topic message reminder :

The English Defence League (EDL) held a march in Birmingham on Saturday and if one photo has to sum the day up it is definitely this one. 







http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/edl-in-birmingham_uk_58e93ffee4b05413bfe36c87?90c&utm_hp_ref=uk
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down


Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon May 01, 2017 10:22 pm

At no point in the video footage did the two stand in the position that the fake photo claims.

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 01, 2017 10:34 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Breitbart is known for taking false or half-facts, leaving out substantiation, and turning them into the story.  Tommy is doing that right here.

Tommy is saying that because no one has produced a video that shows the two principals together, ergo, they were never together.  This, despite the fact that the still photo clearly shows the two together.  In other words, he is saying that only the video is valid.  To do this he has to allege the still photo is altered...but he offers no proof of alteration, nor even a plausible explanation of why.  This is typical Breitbart.

Tommy is selectively acknowledging only half the evidence, and thereby fabricating his story.  I call this, playing a Breitbart hand.

OK.
I took it more to mean that Tommy is accusing the press of playing a Breitbart hand by falsifying the photo, which he obviously believes they have done.

No, the war with the press is Trump's war.  Breitbart News Network is the press.  Your interpretation would be a self-contradiction.

Tommy has no evidence for the thesis that the photo is altered.  His argument that because the two principals do not appear together in a video, the still is faked, is groundless.  Why is the video any kind of standard?

There are standards of evidence for this kind of argument.  Before you can accuse, you must have reason to suspect (called probable cause).  Then there are various different presumptions based upon probabilities, and these have their own standards.  Finally, the final judgement must have (depending on the question) anywhere from preponderance of the evidence (sometimes stated as 66% or more) to beyond a reasonable doubt, which you've heard of as the criminal conviction standard.

What the Alt-right (among them, Breitbart) does is completely ignore all the standards of evidence.  They will plant a fabricated story on one website, and then quote it as their probable cause on the next website...and off we go.  It's called bootstrapping because it simulates lifting yourself up by your own bootstraps.

Tommy has no probable cause to believe the still photograph is not genuine.  It has been fabricated and played on some website, and tommy borrows that as if the appearance legitimizes it.  Nowhere is there any kind of evidence.


Last edited by Original Quill on Mon May 01, 2017 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon May 01, 2017 10:44 pm

I said the photo was faked before any video was posted... on the basis that the sunlight/shadows didn't add up and that there were other blurry anomalies around the edges of those in shot...


The video confirms my belief in photo being faked...



_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 01, 2017 10:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I said the photo was faked before any video was posted... on the basis that the sunlight/shadows didn't add up and that there were other blurry anomalies around the edges of those in shot...

The video confirms my belief in photo being faked...

The video confirms nothing.  You cannot use negative evidence for support of a positive allegation.

As to your mumbo-jumbo about shadows,  I don't see anything conclusive.  My own interpretation says the lighting confirms the validity of the still; sunlight is behind the beautiful young woman, and so her shadow appears precisely as you would expect in the rest of graphic to the right.  You would need a lighting expert to support you in the face of such clear evidence.

I see you don't have an expert.  You have no evidence.


Last edited by Original Quill on Mon May 01, 2017 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by eddie on Mon May 01, 2017 10:54 pm

Quill I am guessing that the next time you post what you think, you'll be bringing along an expert.

No expert. No evidence mate. Razz

_________________
Unfuck yourself. Be who you were before all that stuff happened that dimmed your fucking shine.
avatar
eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

Posts : 30936
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 47
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 01, 2017 11:04 pm

eddie wrote:Quill I am guessing that the next time you post what you think, you'll be bringing along an expert.

No expert. No evidence mate. Razz

Go back and reread what I've said about standards. I am not making any allegations...so I have nothing to prove. I am simply saying that tommy has failed to offer probable cause.

Eds, you've got to use your head...where does it start? A statement or argument begins with an assertion. So the position of the person depends upon whether s/he is the proponent or the auditor of that assertion. As to this question, tommy is the proponent. The rest of us are the auditors of his assertion.

It might be nice if I had my own expert, but the theory of skepticism says tommy must prove his assertion. Until he does, we just sit back and maintain a position of doubt.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon May 01, 2017 11:06 pm

The video shows that the two were never in positions shown in fake photo...



_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Mon May 01, 2017 11:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:At no point in the video footage did the two stand in the position that the fake photo claims.


So why has not the EDL leader then denied it happened?

He admits it did happen.

Are you saying he is lying to make himself look a tit?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Syl on Mon May 01, 2017 11:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The video shows that the two were never in positions shown in fake photo...



The video didn't show the full days happenings Tommy.
The shadows on the pic are exactly where they should be.

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 11050
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by eddie on Mon May 01, 2017 11:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Quill I am guessing that the next time you post what you think, you'll be bringing along an expert.

No expert. No evidence mate. Razz

Go back and reread what I've said about standards.  I am not making any allegations...so I have nothing to prove.  I am simply saying that tommy has failed to offer probable cause.

Eds, you've got to use your head...where does it start?  A statement or argument begins with an assertion.  So the position of the person depends upon whether s/he is the proponent or the auditor of that assertion.  As to this question, tommy is the proponent.  The rest of us are the auditors of his assertion.

It might be nice if I had my own expert, but the theory of skepticism says tommy must prove his assertion.  Until he does, we just sit back and maintain a position of doubt.


Quill, I do get what you're saying - it was the "bring along an expert" I was questioning.
If any poster said "oh I just got an expert to look at this and he said.." who's going to believe them?

Probably me actually because I never assume people lie.

_________________
Unfuck yourself. Be who you were before all that stuff happened that dimmed your fucking shine.
avatar
eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

Posts : 30936
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 47
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Syl on Mon May 01, 2017 11:12 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:At no point in the video footage did the two stand in the position that the fake photo claims.


So why has not the EDL leader then denied it happened?

He admits it did happen.

Are you saying he is lying to make himself look a tit?

Good point . Razz

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 11050
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Mon May 01, 2017 11:14 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So why has not the EDL leader then denied it happened?

He admits it did happen.

Are you saying he is lying to make himself look a tit?

Good point . Razz


Cool
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 01, 2017 11:15 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Go back and reread what I've said about standards.  I am not making any allegations...so I have nothing to prove.  I am simply saying that tommy has failed to offer probable cause.

Eds, you've got to use your head...where does it start?  A statement or argument begins with an assertion.  So the position of the person depends upon whether s/he is the proponent or the auditor of that assertion.  As to this question, tommy is the proponent.  The rest of us are the auditors of his assertion.

It might be nice if I had my own expert, but the theory of skepticism says tommy must prove his assertion.  Until he does, we just sit back and maintain a position of doubt.


Quill, I do get what you're saying - it was the "bring along an expert" I was questioning.
If any poster said "oh I just got an expert to look at this and he said.." who's going to believe them?

Probably me actually because I never assume people lie.

I'm just modelling my description after the way it would be done in a court.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon May 01, 2017 11:32 pm


Where is this 'admission' Didge...?


Syl... shadows don't add up... man's front is covered in sunlight when it would be shadow if woman was standing close by.

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Mon May 01, 2017 11:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Where is this 'admission' Didge...?


Syl... shadows don't add up... man's front is covered in sunlight when it would be shadow if woman was standing close by.


Where is his denial or claim the photo is faked?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon May 01, 2017 11:39 pm

Didge... you said "he admits this happened"...


So... where is this admission of his...?

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Mon May 01, 2017 11:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Didge... you said "he admits this happened"...


So... where is this admission of his...?


The fact he has never denied it

Can you not work that one out?

Has he claimed the photo was faked?

No

Did he deny it happened?

No

Did he in fact state that she was the one confrontational, thus admitting it happened?

Take your time
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue May 02, 2017 12:15 am

So you lied when you claimed that he had admitted the picture was genuine...!?


OK...



_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Tue May 02, 2017 12:17 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So you lied when you claimed that he had admitted the picture was genuine...!?


OK...




He did, he claimed she was confrontational

That is about as admitting the situation happened as you can get.

So why did he not deny this or claim the photo was faked?

Why did countless other people there including the Police and media not claim this was faked.

How many witnesses is that?

Hence the point Quill is making.

There is countless witnesses to the event and not a single one makes the absurd claim you are making.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue May 02, 2017 9:30 pm

So at what point in the video footage of the incident were the two actually in the position that the photo claims...?

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Tue May 02, 2017 9:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So at what point in the video footage of the incident were the two actually in the position that the photo claims...?

You assume the video covers everything that happened. Obviously it did not, as the still photo proves.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Jules on Tue May 02, 2017 9:51 pm

I made a typo in saying the confrontation occured at 1:31, it occured around 1:41. In the general melee it's hard to pinpoint when. Is it really that important to you Tommy?

I wouldn't have bothered to correct my error since the thread was virtually falling off the radar -  it was last on the scrolling list. But since you bumped the thread again, I felt I might as well correct the error, and I have. Laughing
avatar
Jules

Posts : 1602
Join date : 2016-07-30
Location : Third Rock

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue May 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Still don't see any point that the two of them are as close as picture claims...

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Wed May 03, 2017 4:30 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Still don't see any point that the two of them are as close as picture claims...

The still photo is the proof. I suspect the video camera was off, or the sequence has been edited.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Wed May 03, 2017 3:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Still don't see any point that the two of them are as close as picture claims...

You're really good at clutching straws. But I'm sure your wife tells you that all the time.

There's another photograph in the link below, as well as a quote from the EDL leader admitting he wanted to knock her teeth out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/10/wasnt-scared-says-woman-faced-edl-leader-comments-lucky-got/
avatar
Fuzzy Zack
The Japanese Lesbian Mermaid

Posts : 4187
Join date : 2014-02-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Angry Andy on Wed May 03, 2017 3:18 pm

Love the statement that Crossland was mumbling. For an EDL member, that would be an articulate and eloquent speech. He is teaching Tommy how to write.

_________________
I have never met a caring sharing and compassionate Tory.
Tories and far right wingers. All liars
Visit Turkey. But beware, Sharia law is watching everyone.
avatar
Angry Andy

Posts : 3457
Join date : 2013-12-14
Age : 60
Location : Getting banned is a badge of honour in the fight against far rw extremists.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 03, 2017 9:43 pm

The picture was fake and the video footage of the incident shows that they were never facing off 'toe to toe' at all...!

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Wed May 03, 2017 10:10 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The picture was fake and the video footage of the incident shows that they were never facing off 'toe to toe' at all...!

No evidence of that.  The picture doesn't lie...whereas the video was probably turned off, or turned the other way.  There are a lot of reasons why the video might not tell the whole story, but the still photo was pointed right at them and it gives irrefutable proof.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 03, 2017 10:37 pm

Bollocks!!!


The video shows the whole incident... the pic is a fake!!!


You can even see dodgy blurry areas around the spliced bits!!!

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 18327
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Original Quill on Wed May 03, 2017 11:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Bollocks!!!

The video shows the whole incident... the pic is a fake!!!

You can even see dodgy blurry areas around the spliced bits!!!

Apparently not, tommy. Seeing is believing.

You're doing what those police officials do after an officer gets caught in some wrongdoing on a phone video: "What you clearly saw with your own eyes...you didn't see!" They are so used to getting their way behind the badge, that they think they can buffalo the public into disbelieving their own eyes.

It ain't gonna happen, tom. It's in plain view. That lovely young woman is backing down the bigot with a wonderful smile.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

"...thought before action" ― Sheldon Wolin

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 18858
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: EDL In Birmingham Shown Where To Go By Mosque And Residents

Post by Thorin on Wed May 03, 2017 11:45 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:So you lied when you claimed that he had admitted the picture was genuine...!?


OK...




He did, he claimed she was confrontational

That is about as admitting the situation happened as you can get.

So why did he not deny this or claim the photo was faked?

Why did countless other people there including the Police and media not claim this was faked.

How many witnesses is that?

Hence the point Quill is making.

There is countless witnesses to the event and not a single one makes the absurd claim you are making.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 10319
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum