Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Page 2 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:17 am

First topic message reminder :

Ken Livingstone has warned he will take Labour to court if it expels him over alleged anti-Semitism.

He had told BBC Radio London last April that in Adolf Hitler’s policy in 1932 “was that Jews should be moved to Israel”. “He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews,” he told the Vanessa Feltz show.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ken-livingstone-judicial-review-labour-party-anti-semitism-michael-mansfield-imran-khan-jeremy-corbyn_uk_58d54dd5e4b03787d357fadb?utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk





This is the problem with the Far Left.


Israel did not exist in 1932, so ho could he move them to Israel?

Delusions. What he is referring to. Is the Haavara agreement between German Zionist Jews and the Nazi Germany. Of which many other zionists were against, but considering the hate many Germans Jews faced. You can hardly blame them for wanting to cut a deal, simply to get  out of Germany with some of their property.

Which the Nazi's only did, to try and break the anti-Nazi boycott. It was also seen as a way of getting rid of Jews. Hitler never even supported the agreement and criticized this in 1932. He only supported the agreement between 1937-1939. Only 60,000 German Jews were able to emigrate to Palestine, of which the Nazi's exploited them of their money and property out of 522,000. There is nothing in the agreement that backs and supports the creation of a Jewish homeland or nation in former Judea and Israel.



The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky) and outside it.[4] For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Nazi Germany; for the Yishuv, the new Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrants and some economic support; and for the Nazis it was seen as a way of breaking the Anti-Nazi boycott of 1933, which had mass support among European Jews and was thought by the German state as a potential threat to a fragile German economy.

The Haavara Agreement was thought among some Nazi circles to be a possible way to rid the country of its supposed "Jewish problem." The head of the Middle Eastern division of the foreign ministry, the anti-Nazi Werner Otto von Hentig, supported the policy of concentrating Jews in Palestine. Hentig believed that if the Jewish population was concentrated in a single foreign entity, then foreign diplomatic policy and containment of the Jews would become easier. Hitler's own support of the Haavara Agreement was unclear and varied throughout the 1930s. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but reversed his opinion and supported it in the period 1937-1939.
After the German invasion of Poland in September 1939, the program was ended.


Zionism

noun
1.
a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.


So how in anyway, was Hitler supporting Zionism, a belief in a Jewish homeland for the Jews in Israel, of which none existed at this present time? When his intention all along was to eradicate them? The Nazi's in the 1930's were not strong enough to start murdering Jews on any scale, as it could likely lead to war. They certainly persecuted the Jews and treated them as inferior Until Germany was strong enough to go to war.. So  this agreement does not mean Hitler of the Nazis supported the ideology of Zionism. Like I say the Far Left are truly it seems Nazi apologists. I hope he does go to court, as he would need to show Hitler actively believed and supported a Jewish homeland for the Jews in its previous nation of Judea and Israel.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down


Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You did claim he could sue over the charge of being a nazi apologist

There is every indication based on evidence he is a nazi apologist, based on his wrong claim, that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish nation

No I didn't.

How is claiming that Hitler supported the creation of Jewish nation being a nazi apologist?


Because he murdered 6 million of them and never backed the Jews to have a nation.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:59 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No I didn't.

How is claiming that Hitler supported the creation of Jewish nation being a nazi apologist?


Because he murdered 6 million of them and never backed the Jews to have a nation.

How is that connected to being a nazi apologist?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Because he murdered 6 million of them and never backed the Jews to have a nation.

How is that connected to being a nazi apologist?


How is murdering 6 million Jews helping create a Jewish nation?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:03 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

How is that connected to being a nazi apologist?


How is murdering 6 million Jews helping create a Jewish nation?

He hadn't murdered 6 million Jews in 1932, which is what KL was talking about.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


How is murdering 6 million Jews helping create a Jewish nation?

He hadn't murdered 6 million Jews in 1932, which is what KL was talking about.


But if he wanted to create a Jewish state, why did he not send the 500,000 German Jews there, placing influence on Britain to create a Jewish state?
Why did over 7 years see only 60,000 after losing most of their money and property be allowed to leave and get to the British Mandate? Whilst also being critical for the first 5 years of the agreement?
If you and KL have read Mein Kampf, you would know how absurd and silly you are looking.

Would you like some quotes?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:07 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

He hadn't murdered 6 million Jews in 1932, which is what KL was talking about.


But if he wanted to create a Jewish state, why did he not send the 500,000 German Jews there, placing influence on Britain to create a Jewish state?
Why did over 7 years see only 60,000 after losing most of their money and property be allowed to leave and get to the British Mandate? Whilst also being critical for the first 5 years of the agreement?
If you and KL have read Mein Kampf, you would know how absurd and silly you are looking.

Would you like some quotes?

Can't you post without being offensive? When you learn how to do that, come back.

KL said nothing antisemitic, and he's not a nazi apologist based on what he did say.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


But if he wanted to create a Jewish state, why did he not send the 500,000 German Jews there, placing influence on Britain to create a Jewish state?
Why did over 7 years see only 60,000 after losing most of their money and property be allowed to leave and get to the British Mandate? Whilst also being critical for the first 5 years of the agreement?
If you and KL have read Mein Kampf, you would know how absurd and silly you are looking.

Would you like some quotes?

Can't you post without being offensive? When you learn how to do that, come back.

KL said nothing antisemitic, and he's not a nazi apologist based on what he did say.


Misdirection, you are being absurd and silly

He is a hater of Israel and by proxy Jews, for simply having a Jewish state. Hence the false charge Hitler supported Zionism.
I have proven he is a Nazi apologist with lies he made.

If you think I am wrong, then state your case.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:17 pm

In a week where Ken Livingstone provoked anger by repeating his remark that Hitler had supported Zionism, Professor Bauer offered a history lesson on the relationship between the Nazis and the movement to create a Jewish state.

He said: “The Nazi policy from 1933 when they reached power, was to get rid of the Jews of Germany.

“They did not yet plan the Holocaust. They wanted the Jews to emigrate and if they didn’t emigrate voluntarily, to expel them.

“The Zionist movement in Palestine at the time wanted to rescue these Jews. So they arrived at an agreement with the Nazi government that a certain number of Jews who had some wealth would be able to export some of their wealth – in goods – to Palestine, and thereby build up their own future and enable them to emigrate, which they otherwise would have had great difficulties doing due to the British policies in Palestine.

So Yehuda Bauer also thinks that the Nazi Government came to an agreement with Zionists.

Does that mean that the Nazis supported Zionism? Yes, but for a different reason.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/yehuda-bauer-sets-the-record-straight-on-hitler-and-zionism-1.52808

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
In a week where Ken Livingstone provoked anger by repeating his remark that Hitler had supported Zionism, Professor Bauer offered a history lesson on the relationship between the Nazis and the movement to create a Jewish state.

He said: “The Nazi policy from 1933 when they reached power, was to get rid of the Jews of Germany.

“They did not yet plan the Holocaust. They wanted the Jews to emigrate and if they didn’t emigrate voluntarily, to expel them.

“The Zionist movement in Palestine at the time wanted to rescue these Jews. So they arrived at an agreement with the Nazi government that a certain number of Jews who had some wealth would be able to export some of their wealth – in goods – to Palestine, and thereby build up their own future and enable them to emigrate, which they otherwise would have had great difficulties doing due to the British policies in Palestine.

So Yehuda Bauer also thinks that the Nazi Government came to an agreement with Zionists.

Does that mean that the Nazis supported Zionism? Yes, but for a different reason.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/yehuda-bauer-sets-the-record-straight-on-hitler-and-zionism-1.52808


He was also a Zionist

Does that mean these groups of Zionists trying to flee Germany represent all Zionism?

Are you then culpable for any Christian violence Rags based off your argument?

The Nazi's did not support zionism. They supported getting rid of some Jews and exploiting them of their property and money.


Show me where the Nazi's backed the creation of a Jewish homeland?

Ask that in your next PM to sassy

Laughing
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:25 pm

You must have not read the link, did you Rags?

Do you want me to post it?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So Yehuda Bauer also thinks that the Nazi Government came to an agreement with Zionists.

Does that mean that the Nazis supported Zionism? Yes, but for a different reason.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/yehuda-bauer-sets-the-record-straight-on-hitler-and-zionism-1.52808


He was also a Zionist

Does that mean these groups of Zionists trying to flee Germany represent all Zionism?

Are you then culpable for any Christian violence Rags based off your argument?

The Nazi's did not support zionism. They supported getting rid of some Jews and exploiting them of their property and money.


Show me where the Nazi's backed the creation of a Jewish homeland?

Ask that in your next PM to sassy

Laughing

Are you saying that Bauer is factually incorrect then?

The trouble is that some people have interpreted KL's remarks as saying that the Nazis were Zionists, or that they supported the idea of a Jewish Homeland. That is not what he said. Saying that someone was supporting Zionists doesn't necessarily imply that they shared their views, it just means that they had a common interest - moving Jews out of Germany to Palestine.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


He was also a Zionist

Does that mean these groups of Zionists trying to flee Germany represent all Zionism?

Are you then culpable for any Christian violence Rags based off your argument?

The Nazi's did not support zionism. They supported getting rid of some Jews and exploiting them of their property and money.


Show me where the Nazi's backed the creation of a Jewish homeland?

Ask that in your next PM to sassy

Laughing

Are you saying that Bauer is factually incorrect then?

The trouble is that some people have interpreted KL's remarks as saying that the Nazis were Zionists, or that they supported the idea of a Jewish Homeland. That is not what he said. Saying that someone was supporting Zionists doesn't necessarily imply that they shared their views, it just means that they had a common interest - moving Jews out of Germany to Palestine.


1) No, I said he was a Zionist and that how can he or some Palestinian Jews represent all Zionism>?

2) Where is the Nazi support to create a Jewish state?

There is none. Having a plan to rid Germany of Jews whilst exploiting those rich o do so, is not supporting the creation of a Jewish state.

3) He stated that "Hitler" supported Zionism. So lets get your facts straight

Show me where Hitler supported the idea of a Jewish state in the British Mandate.

Zionism is the belief of a Jewish state in former Judea and Israel.

4) That makes Ken a nazi apologist
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:39 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Are you saying that Bauer is factually incorrect then?

The trouble is that some people have interpreted KL's remarks as saying that the Nazis were Zionists, or that they supported the idea of a Jewish Homeland. That is not what he said. Saying that someone was supporting Zionists doesn't necessarily imply that they shared their views, it just means that they had a common interest - moving Jews out of Germany to Palestine.


1) No, I said he was a Zionist and that how can he or some Palestinian Jews represent all Zionism>?

2) Where is the Nazi support to create a Jewish state?

There is none. Having a plan to rid Germany of Jews whilst exploiting those rich o do so, is not supporting the creation of a Jewish state.

3) He stated that "Hitler" supported Zionism. So lets get your facts straight

Show me where Hitler supported the idea of a Jewish state in the British Mandate.

Zionism is the belief of a Jewish state in former Judea and Israel.

4) That makes Ken a nazi apologist

Nobody claimed that the Nazis supported the creation of a Jewish state. JL said Hitler was "supporting Zionism" in wishing Jews to move to Palestine, which is also what Zionists wanted.

None of it makes him a nazi apologist.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


1) No, I said he was a Zionist and that how can he or some Palestinian Jews represent all Zionism>?

2) Where is the Nazi support to create a Jewish state?

There is none. Having a plan to rid Germany of Jews whilst exploiting those rich o do so, is not supporting the creation of a Jewish state.

3) He stated that "Hitler" supported Zionism. So lets get your facts straight

Show me where Hitler supported the idea of a Jewish state in the British Mandate.

Zionism is the belief of a Jewish state in former Judea and Israel.

4) That makes Ken a nazi apologist

Nobody claimed that the Nazis supported the creation of a Jewish state. JL said Hitler was "supporting Zionism" in wishing Jews to move to Palestine, which is also what Zionists wanted.

None of it makes him a nazi apologist.


Zionism  is the creation of a Jewish state in the lands formerly of Judea and Israel.

So by your confession, the Nazi's never supported Zionism

No where have you shown or Ken shown Hitler supported Zionism.

How is Jews fleeing persecution as refugees supporting Zionism?

He is a Nazi apologist
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:47 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Nobody claimed that the Nazis supported the creation of a Jewish state. JL said Hitler was "supporting Zionism" in wishing Jews to move to Palestine, which is also what Zionists wanted.

None of it makes him a nazi apologist.


Zionism  is the creation of a Jewish state in the lands formerly of Judea and Israel.

So by your confession, the Nazi's never supported Zionism

No where have you shown or Ken shown Hitler supported Zionism.

How is Jews fleeing persecution as refugees supporting Zionism?

He is a Nazi apologist

KL said Hitler was "supporting Zionism". That doesn't mean that Hitler agreed with the concept of a Jewish state, it just means that he was supporting Zionism by wanting Jews to go to Palestine - the same thing that Zionists wanted.

How does saying that Hiter was supporting Zionism make someone a nazi apologist?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:51 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Zionism  is the creation of a Jewish state in the lands formerly of Judea and Israel.

So by your confession, the Nazi's never supported Zionism

No where have you shown or Ken shown Hitler supported Zionism.

How is Jews fleeing persecution as refugees supporting Zionism?

He is a Nazi apologist

KL said Hitler was "supporting Zionism". That doesn't mean that Hitler agreed with the concept of a Jewish state, it just means that he was supporting Zionism by wanting Jews to go to Palestine - the same thing that Zionists wanted.

How does saying that Hiter was supporting Zionism make someone a nazi apologist?


But Zionism is about the creation of a Jewish state

How is Jews fleeing Germany to the Mandate supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

So how is refugees coming to Palestine supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

Hitler hated the Jews and after showing his hate for them, by murdering 6 million with the intent of wiping them out, proves beyond doubt, he hated Zionism. How can you support the creation of a Jewish state, when he enacts the final solution?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:57 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

KL said Hitler was "supporting Zionism". That doesn't mean that Hitler agreed with the concept of a Jewish state, it just means that he was supporting Zionism by wanting Jews to go to Palestine - the same thing that Zionists wanted.

How does saying that Hiter was supporting Zionism make someone a nazi apologist?


But Zionism is about the creation of a Jewish state

How is Jews fleeing Germany to the Mandate supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

So how is refugees coming to Palestine supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

Hitler hated the Jews and after showing his hate for them, by murdering 6 million with the intent of wiping them out, proves beyond doubt, he hated Zionism. How can you support the creation of a Jewish state, when he enacts the final solution?

What KL meant was that Hitler assisted Zionists in helping or encouraging Jews to go to Palestine. He didn't say that Hitler was a Zionist, which would have a different meaning. Two groups of people can have a common goal without having the same motive.

How do you equate killing Jews with hating Zionism? The Nazis didn't kill all those Jews until the attempt to move them all out had failed. You have to think about the timeline. It didn't all happen overnight. KL was talking about 1932.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


But Zionism is about the creation of a Jewish state

How is Jews fleeing Germany to the Mandate supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

So how is refugees coming to Palestine supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

Hitler hated the Jews and after showing his hate for them, by murdering 6 million with the intent of wiping them out, proves beyond doubt, he hated Zionism. How can you support the creation of a Jewish state, when he enacts the final solution?

What KL meant was that Hitler assisted Zionists in helping or encouraging Jews to go to Palestine. He didn't say that Hitler was a Zionist, which would have a different meaning. Two groups of people can have a common goal without having the same motive.

How do you equate killing Jews with hating Zionism? The Nazis didn't kill all those Jews until the attempt to move them all out had failed. You have to think about the timeline. It didn't all happen overnight. KL was talking about 1932.


Goal post move.

How is allowing Jews move to Palestine supporting Zionism?

Again Zionism, is he belief of creating a nation for Jews on what is historically Judea and Israel.

If you want to murder all Jews, how can you then support the creation of a Jewish state?

Its not rocket science.

If no Jews exist, how can you then support the creation of a Jewish state.

Hitler hated the Jews.

Zionism is based on the formation of a Jewish nation in historical Judea and Israel.

How do you create such a home with no Jews.

Do you know of the directives made to Rommel by Hitler on Jews?

Which Rommel disobeyed?

Ken claimed Hitler supported Zionism, not Zionists.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:07 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What KL meant was that Hitler assisted Zionists in helping or encouraging Jews to go to Palestine. He didn't say that Hitler was a Zionist, which would have a different meaning. Two groups of people can have a common goal without having the same motive.

How do you equate killing Jews with hating Zionism? The Nazis didn't kill all those Jews until the attempt to move them all out had failed. You have to think about the timeline. It didn't all happen overnight. KL was talking about 1932.


Goal post move.

How is allowing Jews move to Palestine supporting Zionism?

Again Zionism, is he belief of creating a nation for Jews on what is historically Judea and Israel.

If you want to murder all Jews, how can you then support the creation of a Jewish state?

Its not rocket science.

If no Jews exist, how can you then support the creation of a Jewish state.

Hitler hated the Jews.

Zionism is based on the formation of a Jewish nation in historical Judea and Israel.

How do you create such a home with no Jews.

Do you know of the directives made to Rommel by Hitler on Jews?

Which Rommel disobeyed?

Ken claimed Hitler supported Zionism, not Zionists.

It's supporting Zionism by giving Zionists what they want - Jews moving to Palestine. In 1932 Hitler wasn't about to murder Jews - that came later. I already told you to pay attention to the timeline.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Goal post move.

How is allowing Jews move to Palestine supporting Zionism?

Again Zionism, is he belief of creating a nation for Jews on what is historically Judea and Israel.

If you want to murder all Jews, how can you then support the creation of a Jewish state?

Its not rocket science.

If no Jews exist, how can you then support the creation of a Jewish state.

Hitler hated the Jews.

Zionism is based on the formation of a Jewish nation in historical Judea and Israel.

How do you create such a home with no Jews.

Do you know of the directives made to Rommel by Hitler on Jews?

Which Rommel disobeyed?

Ken claimed Hitler supported Zionism, not Zionists.

It's supporting Zionism by giving Zionists what they want - Jews moving to Palestine. In 1932 Hitler wasn't about to murder Jews - that came later. I already told you to pay attention to the timeline.


How is it giving Jews what they want?
They had no nation, nor did they, as Hitler did not create a Jewish nation.
That is Zionism, a Jewish nation, conceived by the Balfour agreement.
So you are saying Muslim refugees is supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, when they come to the UK on their aims? By association of being Muslim?

Hitler could not afford to murder Jews then, when his nations was weak in 1932, it never stopped him persecuting Jews though did it?

How is Jews fleeing persecution as refugees, supporting Zionism?

Zionism again is the formation of a Jewish nation.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:15 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's supporting Zionism by giving Zionists what they want - Jews moving to Palestine. In 1932 Hitler wasn't about to murder Jews - that came later. I already told you to pay attention to the timeline.


How is it giving Jews what they want?
They had no nation, nor did they, as Hitler did not create a Jewish nation.
That is Zionism, a Jewish nation, conceived by the Balfour agreement.
So you are saying Muslim refugees is supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, when they come to the UK on their aims?
Hitler could not afford to murder Jews then, when his nations was weak in 1932, it never stopped him persecuting Jews though did it?

How is Jews fleeing persecution as refugees, supporting Zionism?

Zionism again is the formation of a Jewish nation.

I didn't say it was giving Jews what they want, I said it was giving Zionists what they want.

If KL had said that Hitler supported Zionists rather than Zionism, would you have a different view based on what I've explained to you? Persecuting Jews is not the same as murdering them. I expect he persecuted them in the hope that they would leave.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


How is it giving Jews what they want?
They had no nation, nor did they, as Hitler did not create a Jewish nation.
That is Zionism, a Jewish nation, conceived by the Balfour agreement.
So you are saying Muslim refugees is supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, when they come to the UK on their aims?
Hitler could not afford to murder Jews then, when his nations was weak in 1932, it never stopped him persecuting Jews though did it?

How is Jews fleeing persecution as refugees, supporting Zionism?

Zionism again is the formation of a Jewish nation.

I didn't say it was giving Jews what they want, I said it was giving Zionists what they want.

If KL had said that Hitler supported Zionists rather than Zionism, would you have a different view based on what I've explained to you? Persecuting Jews is not the same as murdering them. I expect he persecuted them in the hope that they would leave.


The zionists never got a Jewish nation, whilst Hitler was in power..

How is that giving them what they want or supporting their cause to have one?

Sorry, can we have that stated again over your concept over murder and persecution?

A living hell in a concentration camp being kept alive slowly worked and starving to death over that of gassing to death?

You then claim he persecuted them in the hope they would leave?

Wow, I hope many see your views here and just hope they do not cringe.

On a serious note, have you read any actual history?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:28 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I didn't say it was giving Jews what they want, I said it was giving Zionists what they want.

If KL had said that Hitler supported Zionists rather than Zionism, would you have a different view based on what I've explained to you? Persecuting Jews is not the same as murdering them. I expect he persecuted them in the hope that they would leave.


The zionists never got a Jewish nation.

How is that giving them what they want or supporting their cause to have one?

Sorry, can we have that stated again over your concept over murder and persecution?

A living hell in a concentration camp being kept alive slowly starving over hat of gassing to death

You then claim he persecuted them in the hope they would leave?

Wow, I hope many see your views here and just hope they do not cringe.

On a serious note, have you read any actual history?

It doesn't matter what Zionists got or didn't get, what matters is what they wanted and what Hitler wanted - they had a common goal.

The concentration camps are not relevant to this particular discussion - what's relevant is what KL meant.

Once again, you're too impressed with what others think. Nobody else has posted in this thread, they probably haven't even read it. If they have, it doesn't matter to me what they think of my posts - I keep telling you that.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


The zionists never got a Jewish nation.

How is that giving them what they want or supporting their cause to have one?

Sorry, can we have that stated again over your concept over murder and persecution?

A living hell in a concentration camp being kept alive slowly starving over hat of gassing to death

You then claim he persecuted them in the hope they would leave?

Wow, I hope many see your views here and just hope they do not cringe.

On a serious note, have you read any actual history?

It doesn't matter what Zionists got or didn't get, what matters is what they wanted and what Hitler wanted - they had a common goal.

The concentration camps are not relevant to this particular discussion - what's relevant is what KL meant.

Once again, you're too impressed with what others think. Nobody else has posted in this thread, they probably haven't even read it. If they have, it doesn't matter to me what they think of my posts - I keep telling you that.


Zionism has one goal,a Jewish state.

Hitler never supported that or made it a reality.

Thus Hitler was never a supporter of Zionism.

A Jewish state was meant to be the whole of the British Mandate of Palestine. Until Arabs, whipped up with hate kept murdering Jews. Then Jordan was created and later Israel, when again the Arabs would not aceept a Jewish state. See how many Arabs states sided with Hitler.

Then you have the audacity to claim removing Jews is supporting Zionism?

Blimey, you might as well have stripped them naked and shoved them in the gas chambers Rags

You then  end with further misdirection

I know one thing, you defended Ken from his hate and defended revisionist history.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:45 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It doesn't matter what Zionists got or didn't get, what matters is what they wanted and what Hitler wanted - they had a common goal.

The concentration camps are not relevant to this particular discussion - what's relevant is what KL meant.

Once again, you're too impressed with what others think. Nobody else has posted in this thread, they probably haven't even read it. If they have, it doesn't matter to me what they think of my posts - I keep telling you that.


Zionism has one goal,a Jewish state.

Hitler never supported that or made it a reality.

Thus Hitler was never a supporter of Zionism.

A Jewish state was meant to be the whole of the British Mandate of Palestine. Until Arabs, whipped up with hate kept murdering Jews. Then Jordan was created and later Israel, when again the Arabs would not aceept a Jewish state. See how many Arabs states sided with Hitler.

Then you have the audacity to claim removing Jews is supporting Zionism?

Blimey, you might as well have stripped them naked and shoved them in the gas chambers Rags

You then  end with further misdirection

I know one thing, you defended Ken from his hate and defended revisionist history.

One can hardly have a Jewish state with no Jews in it. Of course they had common goals. I didn't say removing Jews was supporting Zionism - you made that up.

What do Arabs have to do with it? Hitler didn't control them.

Why do you say I might as well have stripped them and shoved them in the gas chamber? That's a rather histrionic statement, as well as being incorrect.

I'm defending Ken against the charge of antisemitism based on what he said. The Labour party is rather twitchy about this issue lately, so they'll be after anyone who says anything even slightly controversial. Members of the Labour party should really avoid mentioning Jews, Zionists, and Hitler in case what they say is misconstrued.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Zionism has one goal,a Jewish state.

Hitler never supported that or made it a reality.

Thus Hitler was never a supporter of Zionism.

A Jewish state was meant to be the whole of the British Mandate of Palestine. Until Arabs, whipped up with hate kept murdering Jews. Then Jordan was created and later Israel, when again the Arabs would not aceept a Jewish state. See how many Arabs states sided with Hitler.

Then you have the audacity to claim removing Jews is supporting Zionism?

Blimey, you might as well have stripped them naked and shoved them in the gas chambers Rags

You then  end with further misdirection

I know one thing, you defended Ken from his hate and defended revisionist history.

One can hardly have a Jewish state with no Jews in it. Of course they had common goals. I didn't say removing Jews was supporting Zionism - you made that up.

What do Arabs have to do with it? Hitler didn't control them.

Why do you say I might as well have stripped them and shoved them in the gas chamber? That's a rather histrionic statement, as well as being incorrect.

I'm defending Ken against the charge of antisemitism based on what he said. The Labour party is rather twitchy about this issue lately, so they'll be after anyone who says anything even slightly controversial. Members of the Labour party should really avoid mentioning Jews, Zionists, and Hitler in case what they say is misconstrued.


The conception of a Jewish state was born with the Balfour Declaration, 15 years before Hitler came to power.

How is allowing Jews suffering persecution and coming to Palestine, the supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

You are trying to claim, that Jews fleeing persecution, is supporting a Jewish state.

Please explain that pseudo babble for me?

Because many Arabs under the Palestinian mufti called for Arabs to fight for Hitler

Where thousands did.

Where was this Zionist call to fight for Hitler Rags?

You are proving you are ignorant of history.

How is Jews fleeing persecution to lands, supporting the creation of a Jewish state?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:58 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

One can hardly have a Jewish state with no Jews in it. Of course they had common goals. I didn't say removing Jews was supporting Zionism - you made that up.

What do Arabs have to do with it? Hitler didn't control them.

Why do you say I might as well have stripped them and shoved them in the gas chamber? That's a rather histrionic statement, as well as being incorrect.

I'm defending Ken against the charge of antisemitism based on what he said. The Labour party is rather twitchy about this issue lately, so they'll be after anyone who says anything even slightly controversial. Members of the Labour party should really avoid mentioning Jews, Zionists, and Hitler in case what they say is misconstrued.


The conception of a Jewish state was born with the Balfour Declaration, 15 years before Hitler came to power.

How is allowing Jews suffering persecution and coming to Palestine, the supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

You are trying to claim, that Jews fleeing persecution, is supporting a Jewish state.

Please explain that pseudo babble for me?

Because many Arabs under the Palestinian mufti called for Arabs to fight for Hitler

Where thousands did.

Where was this Zionist call to fight for Hitler Rags?

You are proving you are ignorant of history.

How is Jews fleeing persecution to lands, supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

I've never claimed that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state. I said that the Zionists and Hitler shared a common goal - early on anyway. He wanted Jews out of Germany, and one of the places he wanted them to go was Palestine. That's something that Zionists wanted as well. Do you get it now?

What matters is what KL meant, and I think that's what he meant. He's explained it enough times.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


The conception of a Jewish state was born with the Balfour Declaration, 15 years before Hitler came to power.

How is allowing Jews suffering persecution and coming to Palestine, the supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

You are trying to claim, that Jews fleeing persecution, is supporting a Jewish state.

Please explain that pseudo babble for me?

Because many Arabs under the Palestinian mufti called for Arabs to fight for Hitler

Where thousands did.

Where was this Zionist call to fight for Hitler Rags?

You are proving you are ignorant of history.

How is Jews fleeing persecution to lands, supporting the creation of a Jewish state?

I've never claimed that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state. I said that the Zionists and Hitler shared a common goal - early on anyway. He wanted Jews out of Germany, and one of the places he wanted them to go was Palestine. That's something that Zionists wanted as well. Do you get it now?

What matters is what KL meant, and I think that's what he meant. He's explained it enough times.


Thank you

If he never supported the creation of a Jewish state, then he never could have supported Zionism.

Supporting some Zionists, is not supporting Zionism is it? Even though he never even did that.

Thy never shared a common goal as Hitler objected to the agreement when it first was passed by the Nazi party

You just proved Ken is a Nazi apologist, which makes you one also

Thanks
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:11 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I've never claimed that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state. I said that the Zionists and Hitler shared a common goal - early on anyway. He wanted Jews out of Germany, and one of the places he wanted them to go was Palestine. That's something that Zionists wanted as well. Do you get it now?

What matters is what KL meant, and I think that's what he meant. He's explained it enough times.


Thank you

If he never supported the creation of a Jewish state, then he never could have supported Zionism.

Supporting some Zionists, is not supporting Zionism is it? Even though he never even did that.

Thy never shared a common goal as Hitler objected to the agreement when it first was passed by the Nazi party

You just proved Ken is a Nazi apologist, which makes you one also

Thanks

It depends on what you mean by "supported". Perhaps "assisted" would have been a better word. They did have a common goal though - Hitler wanted the Jews to leave, and that included them going to Palestine.

I haven't proved that Ken is a nazi apologist, and I'm not one either. I just look at things logically, whereas you get rather histrionic and emotional.

You still haven't explained why saying that Hitler supporting Zionism makes someone a nazi apologist. Perhaps you could explain now, although I've asked you several times and you seem unable to explain.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:14 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Thank you

If he never supported the creation of a Jewish state, then he never could have supported Zionism.

Supporting some Zionists, is not supporting Zionism is it? Even though he never even did that.

Thy never shared a common goal as Hitler objected to the agreement when it first was passed by the Nazi party

You just proved Ken is a Nazi apologist, which makes you one also

Thanks

It depends on what you mean by "supported". Perhaps "assisted" would have been a better word. They did have a common goal though - Hitler wanted the Jews to leave, and that included them going to Palestine.

I haven't proved that Ken is a nazi apologist, and I'm not one either. I just look at things logically, whereas you get rather histrionic and emotional.

You still haven't explained why saying that Hitler supporting Zionism makes someone a nazi apologist. Perhaps you could explain now, although I've asked you several times and you seem unable to explain.


Goal post move.

Okay, how is removing Jews supporting the creation of a Jewish state? Conceived before Hitler cam to power?
How is there a common goal with Zionism?
Show me the support Hitler had for an Independent Jewish state?

As I have proved he never supported Zionism, what do i need to prove off this?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:17 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It depends on what you mean by "supported". Perhaps "assisted" would have been a better word. They did have a common goal though - Hitler wanted the Jews to leave, and that included them going to Palestine.

I haven't proved that Ken is a nazi apologist, and I'm not one either. I just look at things logically, whereas you get rather histrionic and emotional.

You still haven't explained why saying that Hitler supporting Zionism makes someone a nazi apologist. Perhaps you could explain now, although I've asked you several times and you seem unable to explain.


Goal post move.

Okay, how is removing Jews supporting the creation of a Jewish state? Conceived before Hitler cam to power?
How is there a common goal with Zionism?
Show me the support Hitler had for an Independent Jewish state?

As I have proved he never supported Zionism, what do i need to prove off this?

It's supporting it by encouraging Jews to go to Palestine. I would have thought that was obvious. That's what Zionists want too - ie, a common goal.

I never said he supported an independent Jewish state.

You still need to explain why someone saying that Hitler supported Zionism means they're antisemitic.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:23 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Goal post move.

Okay, how is removing Jews supporting the creation of a Jewish state? Conceived before Hitler cam to power?
How is there a common goal with Zionism?
Show me the support Hitler had for an Independent Jewish state?

As I have proved he never supported Zionism, what do i need to prove off this?

It's supporting it by encouraging Jews to go to Palestine. I would have thought that was obvious. That's what Zionists want too - ie, a common goal.

I never said he supported an independent Jewish state.

You still need to explain why someone saying that Hitler supported Zionism means they're antisemitic.


Lol

So Jews moving to another land is supporting the creation of a Jewish state. When it was already conceived 15 years previous

Are Arabs not colonialists Rags?

So when have you charged Polish people moving here as creating a Polish state Rags?

Again Zionism is simple, the creation of a Jewish state and even more so how your argument is dumb, why did they partition the land within the UN plan?

Simple Hitler never supported Zionism

References to jews and Nazism are classed as antisemitism
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:27 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's supporting it by encouraging Jews to go to Palestine. I would have thought that was obvious. That's what Zionists want too - ie, a common goal.

I never said he supported an independent Jewish state.

You still need to explain why someone saying that Hitler supported Zionism means they're antisemitic.


Lol

So Jews moving to another land is supporting the creation of a Jewish state. When it was already conceived 15 years previous

Are Arabs not colonialists Rags?

So when have you charged Polish people moving here as creating a Polish state Rags?

Again Zionism is simple, the creation of a Jewish state and even more so how your argument is dumb, why did they partition the land within the UN plan?

Simple Hitler never supported Zionism

References to jews and Nazism are classed as antisemitism

Yes - if they're moving to Palestine - obviously.

Why are references to Jews and Nazism classed as antisemitism? That makes no sense.

You might find this article interesting re the different interpretations of Hitler was "supporting Zionism".

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.717126

Hitler wasn’t a Zionist, but he did give his passive and sometimes active support to the limited collaboration between the Zionist movement and the Nazi regime throughout the 1930s.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Lol

So Jews moving to another land is supporting the creation of a Jewish state. When it was already conceived 15 years previous

Are Arabs not colonialists Rags?

So when have you charged Polish people moving here as creating a Polish state Rags?

Again Zionism is simple, the creation of a Jewish state and even more so how your argument is dumb, why did they partition the land within the UN plan?

Simple Hitler never supported Zionism

References to jews and Nazism are classed as antisemitism

Yes - if they're moving to Palestine - obviously.

Why are references to Jews and Nazism classed as antisemitism? That makes no sense.

You might find this article interesting re the different interpretation of "Hitler supported Zionism".

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.717126

Hitler wasn’t a Zionist, but he did give his passive and sometimes active support to the limited collaboration between the Zionist movement and the Nazi regime throughout the 1930s.


1) So people moving to a country is wrong as they are refugees and Rags thinks this is supporting a Jewish state, even though, that never happened until 3 years after Hitlers death.

2) Haaretz? Now I know you are in confo with sassy? It has the lowest circulation in Israel
How does that prove your case?
Hitler never was passive and hate the Jews
To support Zionism, means supporting a Jewish homeland
Hitler never did
Supporting some Zionists is not supporting Zionism is it Rags


Can you not see ho appalling people would claim Hitler supported a Jewish homeland, after murdering 6 million of them?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:36 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes - if they're moving to Palestine - obviously.

Why are references to Jews and Nazism classed as antisemitism? That makes no sense.

You might find this article interesting re the different interpretation of "Hitler supported Zionism".

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.717126




1) So people moving to a country is wrong as they are refugees and Rags thinks this is supporting a Jewish state, even though, that never happened until 3 years after Hitlers death.

2) Haaretz? Now I know you are in confo with sassy? It has the lowest circulation in Israel
How does that prove your case?
Hitler never was passive and hate the Jews
To support Zionism, means supporting a Jewish homeland
Hitler never did
Supporting some Zionists is not supporting Zionism is it Rags


Can you not see ho appalling people would claim Hitler supported a Jewish homeland, after murdering 6 million of them?

It's not relevant what actually happened in Palestine, what's relevant is what Zionists and Hitler wanted. None of them had a crystal ball at the time.

In confo with Sassy? I don't know what that means.

Collaborating with some Zionists in Germany could be said to be supporting Zionism. It's all a matter of semantics, and you have taken what KL said far too literally.

How many times do I have tell you that nobody said Hitler supported a Jewish homeland?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


1) So people moving to a country is wrong as they are refugees and Rags thinks this is supporting a Jewish state, even though, that never happened until 3 years after Hitlers death.

2) Haaretz? Now I know you are in confo with sassy? It has the lowest circulation in Israel
How does that prove your case?
Hitler never was passive and hate the Jews
To support Zionism, means supporting a Jewish homeland
Hitler never did
Supporting some Zionists is not supporting Zionism is it Rags


Can you not see ho appalling people would claim Hitler supported a Jewish homeland, after murdering 6 million of them?

It's not relevant what actually happened in Palestine, what's relevant is what Zionists and Hitler wanted. None of them had a crystal ball at the time.

In confo with Sassy? I don't know what that means.

Collaborating with some Zionists in Germany could be said to be supporting Zionism. It's all a matter of semantics, and you have taken what KL said far too literally.

How many times do I have tell you that nobody said Hitler supported a Jewish homeland?


Really, show me what Hitler wanted?

How can Jews fleeing persecution being collaboration with the formation of a Jewish state?

If he did not support a Jewish state, then he cannot have supported Zionism can he Rags?

Doh
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:50 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not relevant what actually happened in Palestine, what's relevant is what Zionists and Hitler wanted. None of them had a crystal ball at the time.

In confo with Sassy? I don't know what that means.

Collaborating with some Zionists in Germany could be said to be supporting Zionism. It's all a matter of semantics, and you have taken what KL said far too literally.

How many times do I have tell you that nobody said Hitler supported a Jewish homeland?


Really, show me what Hitler wanted?

How can Jews fleeing persecution being collaboration with the formation of a Jewish state?

If he did not support a Jewish state, then he cannot have supported Zionism can he Rags?

Doh

Hitler didn't block the Haavara Agreement. Don't you think he would have if he wanted to?

Of course he could have supported Zionism whilst having a different motive. You are failing to understand the difference between being a Zionist and supporting Zionism. I keep telling you that one can support something but have a different motive for doing so.

Perhaps this sums it up for you.

the Transfer Agreement was a deal with the devil by all accounts, but the question was whether it was a necessary evil or a mortal sin.


_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Really, show me what Hitler wanted?

How can Jews fleeing persecution being collaboration with the formation of a Jewish state?

If he did not support a Jewish state, then he cannot have supported Zionism can he Rags?

Doh

Hitler didn't block the Haavara Agreement. Don't you think he would have if he wanted to?

Of course he could have supported Zionism whilst having a different motive. You are failing to understand the difference between being a Zionist and supporting Zionism. I keep telling you that one can support something but have a different motive for doing so.

Perhaps this sums it up for you.

the Transfer Agreement was a deal with the devil by all accounts, but the question was whether it was a necessary evil or a mortal sin.




Ho is any of the above supporting the creation  of a Jewish sate?

Which is Zionism?

take your time
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:58 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Hitler didn't block the Haavara Agreement. Don't you think he would have if he wanted to?

Of course he could have supported Zionism whilst having a different motive. You are failing to understand the difference between being a Zionist and supporting Zionism. I keep telling you that one can support something but have a different motive for doing so.

Perhaps this sums it up for you.






Ho is any of the above supporting the creation  of a Jewish sate?

Which is Zionism?

take your time

How many more times do I have to tell you that KL didn't say that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state?

Here are some other says he could have said the same thing:

The Nazis collaborated with Zionists?

Hitler supported Zionists by encouraging Jews to go to Palestine?

You're concentrating too much on the literal words and their meanings. The whole questoin is whether KL was antisemitic or not, and I say he wasn't. I understood his meaning, even if you don't.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:01 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:



Ho is any of the above supporting the creation  of a Jewish sate?

Which is Zionism?

take your time

How many more times do I have to tell you that KL didn't say that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state?

Here are some other says he could have said the same thing:

The Nazis collaborated with Zionists?

Hitler supported Zionists by encouraging Jews to go to Palestine?

You're concentrating too much on the literal words and their meanings. The whole questoin is whether KL was antisemitic or not, and I say he wasn't. I understood his meaning, even if you don't.


If he did not support the creation of a Jewish state


Then he never supported Zionism

That makes Ken an Nazi apologist
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:07 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

How many more times do I have to tell you that KL didn't say that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state?

Here are some other says he could have said the same thing:

The Nazis collaborated with Zionists?

Hitler supported Zionists by encouraging Jews to go to Palestine?

You're concentrating too much on the literal words and their meanings. The whole questoin is whether KL was antisemitic or not, and I say he wasn't. I understood his meaning, even if you don't.


If he did not support the creation of a Jewish state


Then he never supported Zionism

That makes Ken an Nazi apologist

No, you are not putting his remark in context. You are being too literal.

How does it make him a nazi apologist? You still haven't explained that.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


If he did not support the creation of a Jewish state


Then he never supported Zionism

That makes Ken an Nazi apologist

No, you are not putting his remark in context. You are being too literal.

How does it make him a nazi apologist? You still haven't explained that.


Ken claimed Hitler supported Zionism
Show me anywhere that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state?
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:17 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No, you are not putting his remark in context. You are being too literal.

How does it make him a nazi apologist? You still haven't explained that.


Ken claimed Hitler supported Zionism
Show me anywhere that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state?

He said Hitler was "supporting Zionism" - a different thing. I don't know why you're being so obtuse. Zionists wanted Jews to go to Palestine, and so did Hitler. There was a collaboration between the Nazis and the Zionists.

You keep harping on about the creation of a Jewish state, and I've told you countless times that nobody claimed Hitler supported that. If KL had thought that, he would have said that Hitler was a Zionist. Now change the record for goodness sake - you're going round in circles again.

Perhaps you could explain how what KL said was antisemitic. It's not like it's the first time I've asked you to do that.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Ken claimed Hitler supported Zionism
Show me anywhere that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state?

He said Hitler was "supporting Zionism" - a different thing. I don't know why you're being so obtuse. Zionists wanted Jews to go to Palestine, and so did Hitler. There was a collaboration between the Nazis and the Zionists.

You keep harping on about the creation of a Jewish state, and I've told you countless times that nobody claimed Hitler supported that. If KL had thought that, he would have Hitler was a Zionist. Now change the record for goodness sake - you're going round in circles again.

Perhaps you could explain how what KL said was antisemitic. It's not like it's the first time I've asked you to do that.


Show me where Hitler supported the creating of a Jewish state?

You keep running away from this point Rags

You clearly do not understand what Zionism is do you?

If Hitler never supported a Jewish State, then he could never have supported Zionism

Take your time
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:25 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

He said Hitler was "supporting Zionism" - a different thing. I don't know why you're being so obtuse. Zionists wanted Jews to go to Palestine, and so did Hitler. There was a collaboration between the Nazis and the Zionists.

You keep harping on about the creation of a Jewish state, and I've told you countless times that nobody claimed Hitler supported that. If KL had thought that, he would have said that Hitler was a Zionist. Now change the record for goodness sake - you're going round in circles again.

Perhaps you could explain how what KL said was antisemitic. It's not like it's the first time I've asked you to do that.


Show me where Hitler supported the creating of a Jewish state?

You keep running away from this point Rags

You clearly do not understand what Zionism is do you?

If Hitler never supported a Jewish State, then he could never have supported Zionism

Take your time

I'll just repeat what I already told you.

If KL had thought that, he would have said that Hitler was a Zionist.

Do you see the difference? How you define "supporting"? Do you think it means sharing the views of? That's not necessarily what it means.

You're the one running away from my question - you must have failed to answer it about ten times now.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:32 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Show me where Hitler supported the creating of a Jewish state?

You keep running away from this point Rags

You clearly do not understand what Zionism is do you?

If Hitler never supported a Jewish State, then he could never have supported Zionism

Take your time

I'll just repeat what I already told you.

If KL had thought that, he would have said that Hitler was a Zionist.

Do you see the difference? How you define "supporting"? Do you think it means sharing the views of? That's not necessarily what it means.

You're the one running away from my question - you must have failed to answer it about ten times now.


How can Hitler be a Zionist or even supporting Zionism?

Show me what Hitler did to create Israel?


You have shown no difference but misdirection

Try again and remember the claim
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:35 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'll just repeat what I already told you.



Do you see the difference? How you define "supporting"? Do you think it means sharing the views of? That's not necessarily what it means.

You're the one running away from my question - you must have failed to answer it about ten times now.


How can Hitler be a Zionist or even supporting Zionism?

Show me what Hitler did to create Israel?


You have shown no difference but misdirection

Try again and remember the claim

How does someone saying that Hitler was supporting Zionism mean they're antisemitic?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


How can Hitler be a Zionist or even supporting Zionism?

Show me what Hitler did to create Israel?


You have shown no difference but misdirection

Try again and remember the claim

How does someone saying that Hitler was supporting Zionism mean they're antisemitic?


He is trying to claim Zionism is comparable to Nazism.

By claiming Hitler supported Zionism

Hitler never did

So is that not an insult to Jews and zionists Rags?

Take your time
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:50 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

How does someone saying that Hitler was supporting Zionism mean they're antisemitic?


He is trying to claim Zionism is comparable to Nazism.

By claiming Hitler supported Zionism

Hitler never did

So is that not an insult to Jews and zionists Rags?

Take your time

I gather that's a common argument, according to the article I posted. However, that generally alludes to people claiming that Hitler was a Zionist, and that's not what Ken said.

I don't think what he said means that he's comparing Nazism to Zionism. Zionists apparently don't like to recall the collaboration which occurred, but that's their problem. I don't see why it's antisemitic. He's not criticising Jews or Zionists.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 28870
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Thorin on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:52 pm

OMG He claimed Hitler supported Zionism

Show me where Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state Rags

_________________
At this point I do not know what is worse.
A person who is full of envy spreading rumours and lies.
Or the people with not enough education or common sense who believe them.
avatar
Thorin

Posts : 11544
Join date : 2017-01-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum