Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Page 6 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:17 am

First topic message reminder :

Ken Livingstone has warned he will take Labour to court if it expels him over alleged anti-Semitism.

He had told BBC Radio London last April that in Adolf Hitler’s policy in 1932 “was that Jews should be moved to Israel”. “He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews,” he told the Vanessa Feltz show.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ken-livingstone-judicial-review-labour-party-anti-semitism-michael-mansfield-imran-khan-jeremy-corbyn_uk_58d54dd5e4b03787d357fadb?utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk





This is the problem with the Far Left.


Israel did not exist in 1932, so ho could he move them to Israel?

Delusions. What he is referring to. Is the Haavara agreement between German Zionist Jews and the Nazi Germany. Of which many other zionists were against, but considering the hate many Germans Jews faced. You can hardly blame them for wanting to cut a deal, simply to get  out of Germany with some of their property.

Which the Nazi's only did, to try and break the anti-Nazi boycott. It was also seen as a way of getting rid of Jews. Hitler never even supported the agreement and criticized this in 1932. He only supported the agreement between 1937-1939. Only 60,000 German Jews were able to emigrate to Palestine, of which the Nazi's exploited them of their money and property out of 522,000. There is nothing in the agreement that backs and supports the creation of a Jewish homeland or nation in former Judea and Israel.



The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky) and outside it.[4] For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Nazi Germany; for the Yishuv, the new Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrants and some economic support; and for the Nazis it was seen as a way of breaking the Anti-Nazi boycott of 1933, which had mass support among European Jews and was thought by the German state as a potential threat to a fragile German economy.

The Haavara Agreement was thought among some Nazi circles to be a possible way to rid the country of its supposed "Jewish problem." The head of the Middle Eastern division of the foreign ministry, the anti-Nazi Werner Otto von Hentig, supported the policy of concentrating Jews in Palestine. Hentig believed that if the Jewish population was concentrated in a single foreign entity, then foreign diplomatic policy and containment of the Jews would become easier. Hitler's own support of the Haavara Agreement was unclear and varied throughout the 1930s. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but reversed his opinion and supported it in the period 1937-1939.
After the German invasion of Poland in September 1939, the program was ended.


Zionism

noun
1.
a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.


So how in anyway, was Hitler supporting Zionism, a belief in a Jewish homeland for the Jews in Israel, of which none existed at this present time? When his intention all along was to eradicate them? The Nazi's in the 1930's were not strong enough to start murdering Jews on any scale, as it could likely lead to war. They certainly persecuted the Jews and treated them as inferior Until Germany was strong enough to go to war.. So  this agreement does not mean Hitler of the Nazis supported the ideology of Zionism. Like I say the Far Left are truly it seems Nazi apologists. I hope he does go to court, as he would need to show Hitler actively believed and supported a Jewish homeland for the Jews in its previous nation of Judea and Israel.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down


Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:52 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


No answer Rags?

I don't have a problem with that post Didge.


You have not answered whether it is a problem or not?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:As for why Jews needed to be a majority in order to create a Jewish State or Jewish homeland, how could they do that if they were in a minority?


They did not need to be and neither did the Hashemite's to form a nation

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:00 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think it would be better to exclude Trans-Jordan/Jordan for the purposes of the discussion. It was part of the British mandate, But I mean the area to the west of the Jordan.


Really, why?
It was meant to be all for a Jewish home as Mandates had been set up for many Arab nations.

You are trying to white wash history.

So why was 77% not enough?

Then after this in 1937, was over 50% of the then British Mandate not enough for the Arabs?

Again in the 1947?

Because we are talking about Israel, not Jordan. What I'm trying to establish is how many Jews went to Palestine (not Jordan) as a result of the Haavara Agreement. The trouble is that when people talk about "Palestine", some include Jordan and some don't. I'm not including it. I'm trying to establish how much Hitler's policies contributed to the Jewish population in what is now Israel - ie, how much he assisted the Zionists (inadvertently).

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:01 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:As for why Jews needed to be a majority in order to create a Jewish State or Jewish homeland, how could they do that if they were in a minority?


They did not need to be and neither did the Hashemite's to form a nation

Hmmmm, it's quite difficult to establish a nation for a minority group if the majority of the population are against that, unless it's taken by force of course.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Really, why?
It was meant to be all for a Jewish home as Mandates had been set up for many Arab nations.

You are trying to white wash history.

So why was 77% not enough?

Then after this in 1937, was over 50% of the then British Mandate not enough for the Arabs?

Again in the 1947?

Because we are talking about Israel, not Jordan. What I'm trying to establish is how many Jews went to Palestine (not Jordan) as a result of the Haavara Agreement. The trouble is that when people talk about "Palestine", some include Jordan and some don't. I'm not including it. I'm trying to establish how much Hitler's policies contributed to the Jewish population in what is now Israel - ie, how much he assisted the Zionists (inadvertently).

Jordan was formed from the British Mandate for Palestine.
So its vitally important to show here, which you are ignoring..
Some people?
Lol, i wonder who that is.
The first thing you need to do is read about the League of nations mandates.
You are also avoiding how and why 77% of the British Mandate for Palestine, was not enough for the Arabs?
How about you first learn of the migrations of many Arabs to the area from the 19th century, after the Jews made what was a desolate and sparsely populated area prosperous.



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:05 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


They did not need to be and neither did the Hashemite's to form a nation

Hmmmm, it's quite difficult to establish a nation for a minority group if the majority of the population are against that, unless it's taken by force of course.

There is many nations today, that rule as a minority, especially Arab nations funnily enough.
Bahrain, the Gulf states, Syria to name but a few.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:11 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Because we are talking about Israel, not Jordan. What I'm trying to establish is how many Jews went to Palestine (not Jordan) as a result of the Haavara Agreement. The trouble is that when people talk about "Palestine", some include Jordan and some don't. I'm not including it. I'm trying to establish how much Hitler's policies contributed to the Jewish population in what is now Israel - ie, how much he assisted the Zionists (inadvertently).

Jordan was formed from the British Mandate for Palestine.
So its vitally important to show here, which you are ignoring..
Some people?
Lol, i wonder who that is.
The first thing you need to do is read about the League of nations mandates.
You are also avoiding how and why 77% of the British Mandate for Palestine, was not enough for the Arabs?
How about you first learn of the migrations of many Arabs to the area from the 19th century, after the Jews made what was a desolate and sparsely populated area prosperous.



It's only relevant if the Jews from Germany were moving to Jordan. I'm talking about the actual subject - the alleged assistance Hitler gave to the Zionists. The Zionists didn't have designs on Jordan.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Jordan was formed from the British Mandate for Palestine.
So its vitally important to show here, which you are ignoring..
Some people?
Lol, i wonder who that is.
The first thing you need to do is read about the League of nations mandates.
You are also avoiding how and why 77% of the British Mandate for Palestine, was not enough for the Arabs?
How about you first learn of the migrations of many Arabs to the area from the 19th century, after the Jews made what was a desolate and sparsely populated area prosperous.



It's only relevant if the Jews from Germany were moving to Jordan. I'm talking about the actual subject - the alleged assistance Hitler gave to the Zionists. The Zionists didn't have designs on Jordan.


By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

Well know that 60,000 German Jews moved in the 1930's to Palestine, of which only 12,000 were part of the exploitation of their goods and wealth. Many others lost everything. As did German Jews that fled to other parts of Europe and American. Now between 1931 and 1939 over 150,000 Jews from the rest of the world bought land and settled in Palestine. So you are ignoring Arab migrations to the area, which were unrestricted by the British. Jewish immigration was restricted, because of guess what?
Arab violence against Jews.
The British constantly tried to appease the Arabs and were going against the reason for the Mandate in the first place.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:22 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's only relevant if the Jews from Germany were moving to Jordan. I'm talking about the actual subject - the alleged assistance Hitler gave to the Zionists. The Zionists didn't have designs on Jordan.


By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

Well know that 60,000 German Jews moved in the 1930's to Palestine, of which only 12,000 were part of the exploitation of their goods and wealth. Many others lost everything. As did German Jews that fled to other parts of Europe and American. Now between 1931 and 1939 over 150,000 Jews from the rest of the world bought land and settled in Palestine. So you are ignoring Arab migrations to the area, which were unrestricted by the British. Jewish immigration was restricted, because of guess what?
Arab violence against Jews.
The British constantly tried to appease the Arabs and were going against the reason for the Mandate in the first place.

So you mean "Palestine" as in roughly present-day Israel?

I'm not claiming that all Jews who went to Palestine were from Germany or the occupied countries, I'm merely trying to establish the inadvertent contribution Hitler made to a Jewish homeland. Of course he never lived to see that - I wonder what he would have thought about it.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


By September 1939, approximately 282,000 Jews had left Germany and 117,000 from annexed Austria. Of these, some 95,000 emigrated to the United States, 60,000 to Palestine, 40,000 to Great Britain, and about 75,000 to Central and South America, with the largest numbers entering Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Bolivia. More than 18,000 Jews from the German Reich were also able to find refuge in Shanghai, in Japanese-occupied China.

Well know that 60,000 German Jews moved in the 1930's to Palestine, of which only 12,000 were part of the exploitation of their goods and wealth. Many others lost everything. As did German Jews that fled to other parts of Europe and American. Now between 1931 and 1939 over 150,000 Jews from the rest of the world bought land and settled in Palestine. So you are ignoring Arab migrations to the area, which were unrestricted by the British. Jewish immigration was restricted, because of guess what?
Arab violence against Jews.
The British constantly tried to appease the Arabs and were going against the reason for the Mandate in the first place.

So you mean "Palestine" as in roughly present-day Israel?

I'm not claiming that all Jews who went to Palestine were from Germany or the occupied countries, I'm merely trying to establish the inadvertent contribution Hitler made to a Jewish homeland. Of course he never lived to see that - I wonder what he would have thought about it.

No, the mandate of Palestine.

How was it a contribution, when he was exploiting them, of their wealth and through fear, that they were forced to leave?

How also was it a contribution, when the establishment of a Jewish state had been decided years before, via the creation of the Mandate of Palestine, through the League of nations?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:27 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So you mean "Palestine" as in roughly present-day Israel?

I'm not claiming that all Jews who went to Palestine were from Germany or the occupied countries, I'm merely trying to establish the inadvertent contribution Hitler made to a Jewish homeland. Of course he never lived to see that - I wonder what he would have thought about it.

No, the mandate of Palestine.

How was it a contribution, when he was exploiting them, of their wealth and through fear, that they were forced to leave?

How also was it a contribution, when the establishment of a Jewish state had been decided years before, via the creation of the Mandate of Palestine, through the League of nations?

You mean the mandate of Palestine as in the mandate of the land west of the Jordan?

Of course he could make a contribution to the numbers of Jews going to that area via his policies and via the Haavara agreement with the Zionists.  Don't start nitpicking about the definition of "contribution".

The Jewish State had not been agreed though, so that's irrelevant.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:32 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

No, the mandate of Palestine.

How was it a contribution, when he was exploiting them, of their wealth and through fear, that they were forced to leave?

How also was it a contribution, when the establishment of a Jewish state had been decided years before, via the creation of the Mandate of Palestine, through the League of nations?

You mean the mandate of Palestine as in the mandate of the land west of the Jordan?

Of course he could make a contribution to the numbers of Jews going to that area via his policies and via the Haavara agreement with the Zionists.  Don't start nitpicking about the definition of "contribution".

The Jewish State had not been agreed though, so that's irrelevant.

Yes what was left of the British Mandate after 77% had been given to a minority people to form an Arab nation.

How is it a contribution when he is exploiting them and the formation of a Jewish state had already been decided through the league of nations Mandates?

Like i said, you need to read about the Mandates , as you are clearly lacking any knowledge here.

We can even go back before then with the Balfour agreement by the British in 1917

Hence as shown by countless Historians, to claim Hitler was supporting Zionism, is sheer nonsense.

You have also ignored that he was Pro-Arab Hitler, as were the Nazi's

You have ignored that a minority Arab people ended up with 77% of the mandate and you are silent on this.

To be honest, I am just going to allow people to read all the damning facts I have presented and allow them to decide for themselves.

As its clear you disagree with myself and experts on the topic.

That is your choice, but you have proven nothing.

I have said my peace as this is you regurgitating the same poor arguments.

All the best

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:49 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean the mandate of Palestine as in the mandate of the land west of the Jordan?

Of course he could make a contribution to the numbers of Jews going to that area via his policies and via the Haavara agreement with the Zionists.  Don't start nitpicking about the definition of "contribution".

The Jewish State had not been agreed though, so that's irrelevant.

Yes what was left of the British Mandate after 77% had been given to a minority people to form an Arab nation.

How is it a contribution when he is exploiting them and the formation of a Jewish state had already been decided through the league of nations Mandates?

Like i said, you need to read about the Mandates , as you are clearly lacking any knowledge here.

We can even go back before then with the Balfour agreement by the British in 1917

Hence as shown by countless Historians, to claim Hitler was supporting Zionism, is sheer nonsense.

You have also ignored that he was Pro-Arab Hitler, as were the Nazi's

You have ignored that a minority Arab people ended up with 77% of the mandate and you are silent on this.

To be honest, I am just going to allow people to read all the damning facts I have presented and allow them to decide for themselves.

As its clear you disagree with myself and experts on the topic.

That is your choice, but you have proven nothing.

I have said my peace as this is you regurgitating the same poor arguments.

All the best

A contribution re numbers of Jews moving there Didge. Honestly, if there's a way for you to misunderstand something, you'll find it.

You can't have a Jewish State with hardly any Jews in it, no matter what had been discussed or decided - obviously.

I don't need to read about the mandates - it's you who's getting confused about Palestine and Trans-Jordan/Jordan. We were never talking about the British mandate generally, we were talking about Palestine, and I've already told you my definition of Palestine for the purposes of this discussion.

FFS, stop patronising me - I know as much as you do, probably more actually. This isn't about Jordan - the Zionists had no interest in Jordan - this is about the deal between Zionists and Hitler/the Nazis. If you want to talk about Jordan, start another thread.

If you want to carry on deliberately misunderstanding and being patronising, go and do it with someone else. I'll carry on posting about this as I see fit. I don't care what others think - nobody else has posted in this thread, so I presume they don't give a stuff anyway.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:00 pm

I told you that you were done here, as you keep regurgitating the same falsehoods.

You have whitewashed history and ignoring the biggest fact, that Jews were returning to their ancestral home.

The Arabs had conquered the area and colonized it, which every incidence of European colonialism is castigated and here with the Arabs, we see apologist dogma.

Like I said, the mandate set up an Arab state with 77% of the land, with a population that was less than the rest of the 23%. And to a minority Arab group, of which you have no objection to, as well as other Arab nations I have shown ruled by a minority people

There never was a Palestine nation, only the Mandate for Palestine. So its you in confusion here and the fact, it was only Jews who refereed to themselves as Palestinians under the mandate. The Arabs, classed themselves As Syrian Arabs at the time and the formation of a Palestinian people dud not form until the 1960's. After which they had the opportunity to form a nation from the remainder of the British Mandate.

Next you till be telling me the people of East Timor, should stay as part of Indonesia and have their genocide continue by them.

So its you distorting historical facts and claiming basically that Israel should not exist, because to you only Israel cannot claim Self-Determination but other peoples can and do this off the absurd view of a minority people cannot have self determination. Jews are a majority anyway now, where they have 20% Arabs, yet nop Jews live under Palestinian control. Ignoring that Israel was a vast majority in parts of the British mandate, especially Jerusalem and had been a majority for centuries. Who were then ethnically cleansed and repopulated by Arabs, by the Jordanians. Jerusalem is now a divided city, because of Jordan.

All these problems could have been avoided, if the Arabs, had accepted the creation of Jordan, and even then the two partition plans. Even after this the offers Israel gave to form a Palestinian nation.

This you ignore the one major fact, you arguing against the self determination of the Jews, but not the Palestinians, when both can have lands and a nation.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:08 pm

Thorin wrote:I told you that you were done here, as you keep regurgitating the same falsehoods.

You have whitewashed history and ignoring the biggest fact, that Jews were returning to their ancestral home.

The Arabs had conquered the area and colonized it, which every incidence of European colonialism is castigated and here with the Arabs, we see apologist dogma.

Like I said, the mandate set up an Arab state with 77% of the land, with a population that was less than the rest of the 23%. And to a minority Arab group, of which you have no objection to, as well as other Arab nations I have shown ruled by a minority people

There never was a Palestine nation, only the Mandate for Palestine. So its you in confusion here and the fact, it was only Jews who refereed to themselves as Palestinians under the mandate. The Arabs, classed themselves As Syrian Arabs at the time and the formation of a Palestinian people dud not form until the 1960's. After which they had the opportunity to form a nation from the remainder of the British Mandate.

Next you till be telling me the people of East Timor, should stay as part of Indonesia and have their genocide continue by them.

So its you distorting historical facts and claiming basically that Israel should not exist, because to you only Israel cannot claim Self-Determination but other peoples can and do this off the absurd view of a minority people cannot have self determination. Jews are a majority anyway now, where they have 20% Arabs, yet nop Jews live under Palestinian control. Ignoring that Israel was a vast majority in parts of the British mandate, especially Jerusalem and had been a majority for centuries. Who were then ethnically cleansed and repopulated by Arabs, by the Jordanians. Jerusalem is now a divided city, because of Jordan.

All these problems could have been avoided, if the Arabs, had accepted the creation of Jordan, and even then the two partition plans. Even after this the offers Israel gave to form a Palestinian nation.

This you ignore the one major fact, you arguing against the self determination of the Jews, but not the Palestinians, when both can have lands and a nation.

Ancestral home? Most of them in Germany had never lived there, they were German, and their families had lived in Germany for ages.

We're talking about the real world - the area called Palestine which existed in 1933, not some wishy washy place in your imagination.

You're way off topic now - back on your favourite subject. This is nothing to do with Arabs or Jordan, it's about Hitler and his assistance to the Zionists in 1933 onwards. Zionists don't just want Jews to have a homeland, they want them to have a homeland in that precise area and to be in charge of it, which they couldn't have done without an influx of Jewish people.

You called me a Zionist yesterday, and now you're claiming that I said Israel should not exist!

You've lost the plot Didge.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:I told you that you were done here, as you keep regurgitating the same falsehoods.

You have whitewashed history and ignoring the biggest fact, that Jews were returning to their ancestral home.

The Arabs had conquered the area and colonized it, which every incidence of European colonialism is castigated and here with the Arabs, we see apologist dogma.

Like I said, the mandate set up an Arab state with 77% of the land, with a population that was less than the rest of the 23%. And to a minority Arab group, of which you have no objection to, as well as other Arab nations I have shown ruled by a minority people

There never was a Palestine nation, only the Mandate for Palestine. So its you in confusion here and the fact, it was only Jews who refereed to themselves as Palestinians under the mandate. The Arabs, classed themselves As Syrian Arabs at the time and the formation of a Palestinian people dud not form until the 1960's. After which they had the opportunity to form a nation from the remainder of the British Mandate.

Next you till be telling me the people of East Timor, should stay as part of Indonesia and have their genocide continue by them.

So its you distorting historical facts and claiming basically that Israel should not exist, because to you only Israel cannot claim Self-Determination but other peoples can and do this off the absurd view of a minority people cannot have self determination. Jews are a majority anyway now, where they have 20% Arabs, yet nop Jews live under Palestinian control. Ignoring that Israel was a vast majority in parts of the British mandate, especially Jerusalem and had been a majority for centuries. Who were then ethnically cleansed and repopulated by Arabs, by the Jordanians. Jerusalem is now a divided city, because of Jordan.

All these problems could have been avoided, if the Arabs, had accepted the creation of Jordan, and even then the two partition plans. Even after this the offers Israel gave to form a Palestinian nation.

This you ignore the one major fact, you arguing against the self determination of the Jews, but not the Palestinians, when both can have lands and a nation.

Ancestral home? Most of them in Germany had never lived there, they were German, and their families had lived in Germany for ages.

We're talking about the real world - the area called Palestine which existed in 1933, not some wishy washy place in your imagination.

You're way off topic now - back on your favourite subject. This is nothing to do with Arabs or Jordan, it's about Hitler and his assistance to the Zionists in 1933 onwards. Zionists don't just want Jews to have a homeland, they want them to have a homeland in that precise area and to be in charge of it, which they couldn't have done without an influx of Jewish people.

You called me a Zionist yesterday, and now you're claiming that I said Israel should not exist!

You've lost the plot Didge.


So you are saying they are not descended from Israel?

Most had been constantly fleeing persecution and only recently within Russia as well, where many had fled to Germany

So based on your argument, no Palestinian has a right of return, if they were not living at the time, many fled?

No problem, if you want to go down that avenue

No Palestine existed in 1933.

The British Mandate for Palestine existed in 1933, see another historical error

Yes it has everything to do with the formation of an Arab nation in Jordan and I see you avoided every point.

So a simple question.

Do you believe the Jews should not have been able to form the state of Israel in 1948, based off your views they were a majority in what then formed Israel, under the UN partition plan of 1947?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:23 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Ancestral home? Most of them in Germany had never lived there, they were German, and their families had lived in Germany for ages.

We're talking about the real world - the area called Palestine which existed in 1933, not some wishy washy place in your imagination.

You're way off topic now - back on your favourite subject. This is nothing to do with Arabs or Jordan, it's about Hitler and his assistance to the Zionists in 1933 onwards. Zionists don't just want Jews to have a homeland, they want them to have a homeland in that precise area and to be in charge of it, which they couldn't have done without an influx of Jewish people.

You called me a Zionist yesterday, and now you're claiming that I said Israel should not exist!

You've lost the plot Didge.


So you are saying they are not descended from Israel?

Most had been constantly fleeing persecution and only recently within Russia as well, where many had fled to Germany

So based on your argument, no Palestinian has a right of return, if they were not living at the time, many fled?

No problem, if you want to go down that avenue

No Palestine existed in 1933.

The British Mandate for Palestine existed in 1933, see another historical error

Yes it has everything to do with the formation of an Arab nation in Jordan and I see you avoided every point.

So a simple question.

Do you believe the Jews should not have been able to form the state of Israel in 1948, based off your views they were a marginal minority in hat then formed Israel?

Of course Palestine existed in 1933. It wasn't a figment of people's imaginations. The Jews in Germany were not from Israel, they were German. A lot of them wanted to remain German too, but Hitler had other ideas.

I'll ask you the same question. You seem to be keen on self determination based on majorities, so do you think they should have been able to form the State of Israel?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So you are saying they are not descended from Israel?

Most had been constantly fleeing persecution and only recently within Russia as well, where many had fled to Germany

So based on your argument, no Palestinian has a right of return, if they were not living at the time, many fled?

No problem, if you want to go down that avenue

No Palestine existed in 1933.

The British Mandate for Palestine existed in 1933, see another historical error

Yes it has everything to do with the formation of an Arab nation in Jordan and I see you avoided every point.

So a simple question.

Do you believe the Jews should not have been able to form the state of Israel in 1948, based off your views they were a marginal minority in hat then formed Israel?

Of course Palestine existed in 1933. It wasn't a figment of people's imaginations. The Jews in Germany were not from Israel, they were German. A lot of them wanted to remain German too, but Hitler had other ideas.

I'll ask you the same question. You seem to be keen on self determination based on majorities, so do you think they should have been able to form the State of Israel?


No such nation called Palestine existed.

There was the British Mandate of Palestine, administered by the British, under the Mandate Treaty, by the League of Nations.

Yes, as they were a majority in the allotted land under the UN partition plan of 1947.

So now answer whether you think they should have been able to form a nation?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:27 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Of course Palestine existed in 1933. It wasn't a figment of people's imaginations. The Jews in Germany were not from Israel, they were German. A lot of them wanted to remain German too, but Hitler had other ideas.

I'll ask you the same question. You seem to be keen on self determination based on majorities, so do you think they should have been able to form the State of Israel?


No such nation called Palestine existed.

There was the British Mandate of Palestine, administered by the British, under the Mandate Treaty, by the League of Nations.

Yes, as they were a majority in the allotted land under the UN partition plan of 1947.

So now answer whether you think they should have been able to form a nation?

I didn't mention a "nation". Of course Palestine existed. Were they the majority in the land they declared as Israel?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:30 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


No such nation called Palestine existed.

There was the British Mandate of Palestine, administered by the British, under the Mandate Treaty, by the League of Nations.

Yes, as they were a majority in the allotted land under the UN partition plan of 1947.

So now answer whether you think they should have been able to form a nation?

I didn't mention a "nation". Of course Palestine existed. Were they the majority in the land they declared as Israel?


It did not exist.


UN Partition Plan 1947

Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews. Though the Jews were allotted more total land, the majority of that land was in the desert.

Further complicating the situation was the UN majority's insistence that Jerusalem remain apart from both states and be administered as an international zone. This arrangement left more than 100,000 Jews in Jerusalem isolated from their country and circumscribed by the Arab state.


Immediately after this, the Arabs started a war against the Jews, in the British Mandate of Palestine.

So answer the question

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:50 pm

Ken Livingstone has further clarified his remarks.

In his 17-page statement, ahead of a disciplinary hearing this week, the former Mayor of London says Nazi policy “had the effect of supporting Zionism” and references the 1933 "Transfer Agreement".

He said: "This agreement, between the Nazis and a section of Zionism, was not referred to in order to express hostility to Jewish people.
"The Transfer Agreement was a major political issue at the time as the Jewish movement to boycott German goods was a huge international campaign to turn public opinion against Nazi Germany.

"The Transfer Agreement was a major political issue at the time as the Jewish movement to boycott German goods was a huge international campaign to turn public opinion against Nazi Germany.

"In my remarks to Vanessa Feltz, I was just pointing out that the Nazi policy in relation to the Transfer Agreement had the effect of supporting Zionism."

He adds: "I did not say or suggest that Hitler was a Zionist. I did not make the equation of Hitler and Zionism.

"I neither criticised the Transfer Agreement or the section of Zionism that participated in the Agreement.

"I did not draw any historical parallels with the situation today anywhere, including with the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

"The holocaust against the Jews is the greatest racial crime of the 20th century."

There's nothing wrong with that, and if someone could explain how it's supposed to be antisemitic, that would be great.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/28/ken-livingstone-fresh-row-claims-nazi-policy-had-effect-supporting/

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:07 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I didn't mention a "nation". Of course Palestine existed. Were they the majority in the land they declared as Israel?


It did not exist.


UN Partition Plan 1947

Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews. Though the Jews were allotted more total land, the majority of that land was in the desert.

Further complicating the situation was the UN majority's insistence that Jerusalem remain apart from both states and be administered as an international zone. This arrangement left more than 100,000 Jews in Jerusalem isolated from their country and circumscribed by the Arab state.


Immediately after this, the Arabs started a war against the Jews, in the British Mandate of Palestine.

So answer the question

It did exist, it's what the British called that area - therefore, it existed.

Look, the Zionists who did the deal probably had two motives. The first was to get Jews in German away from an increasingly hostile situation. The second was to get Jews to go to Palestine to boost the number of Jews there in order to advance their cause. You're talking about 1947, I'm talking about 1933. The Zionists could not have predicted the 1947 partition plan.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


It did not exist.


UN Partition Plan 1947

Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews. Though the Jews were allotted more total land, the majority of that land was in the desert.

Further complicating the situation was the UN majority's insistence that Jerusalem remain apart from both states and be administered as an international zone. This arrangement left more than 100,000 Jews in Jerusalem isolated from their country and circumscribed by the Arab state.


Immediately after this, the Arabs started a war against the Jews, in the British Mandate of Palestine.

So answer the question

It did exist, it's what the British called that area - therefore, it existed.

Look, the Zionists who did the deal probably had two motives. The first was to get Jews in German away from an increasingly hostile situation. The second was to get Jews to go to Palestine to boost the number of Jews there in order to advance their cause. You're talking about 1947, I'm talking about 1933. The Zionists could not have predicted the 1947 partition plan.


You have not answered the question again

How many have you now avoided?

So when I simple counter everything you throw at me, you resort to regurgitating the same falsehood.

Thanks for the debate Rags

I am happy to leave showing all posters each case made by each of us and how I resoundingly backed mine with facts and you on assumptions.

Great debate, lets have some more on other topics

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:17 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It did exist, it's what the British called that area - therefore, it existed.

Look, the Zionists who did the deal probably had two motives. The first was to get Jews in German away from an increasingly hostile situation. The second was to get Jews to go to Palestine to boost the number of Jews there in order to advance their cause. You're talking about 1947, I'm talking about 1933. The Zionists could not have predicted the 1947 partition plan.


You have not answered the question again

How many have you now avoided?

So when I simple counter everything you throw at me, you resort to regurgitating the same falsehood.

Thanks for the debate Rags

I am happy to leave showing all posters each case made by each of us and how I resoundingly backed mine with facts and you on assumptions.

Great debate, lets have some more on other topics

The answer is that they would be more able to form a nation if there was an increase in the number of Jews in the area - strength in numbers.

I backed up everything I said, and you introduced numerous red herrings which were not relevant to the issue. I also used common sense and logic, whereas you just kept repeating the same tired old stuff over and over again.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You have not answered the question again

How many have you now avoided?

So when I simple counter everything you throw at me, you resort to regurgitating the same falsehood.

Thanks for the debate Rags

I am happy to leave showing all posters each case made by each of us and how I resoundingly backed mine with facts and you on assumptions.

Great debate, lets have some more on other topics

The answer is that they would be more able to form a nation if there was an increase in the number of Jews in the area - strength in numbers.

I backed up everything I said, and you introduced numerous red herrings which were not relevant to the issue. I also used common sense and logic, whereas you just kept repeating the same tired old stuff over and over again.


Again which shows you do not understand the League of nations mandates and the Balfour agreement.

You have made assumptions, not facts.

Countless historians disagree with you and you forget the main tenant of Zionism, was at the time the creation  of a Jewish nation, already promised way before Hitler even came to power.

I am not going to continue when you continually avoid answering questions, that resoundingly debunk your arguments.

Like I say, your arguments are now circular and I am bored of continually presenting the facts.

So that is my last word on the matter.

Please feel free to have the last word, but as I say, people can see for themselves the evidence I presented and the assumptions you have made which falsely claim Hitler supported Zionism. When he was against the formation of a Jewish state.

All the best

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:27 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The answer is that they would be more able to form a nation if there was an increase in the number of Jews in the area - strength in numbers.

I backed up everything I said, and you introduced numerous red herrings which were not relevant to the issue. I also used common sense and logic, whereas you just kept repeating the same tired old stuff over and over again.


Again which shows you do not understand the League of nations mandates and the Balfour agreement.

You have made assumptions, not facts.

Countless historians disagree with you and you forget the main tenant of Zionism, was at the time the creation  of a Jewish nation, already promised way before Hitler even came to power.

I am not going to continue when you continually avoid answering questions, that resoundingly debunk your arguments.

Like I say, your arguments are now circular and I am bored of continually presenting the facts.

So that is my last word on the matter.

Please feel free to have the last word, but as I say, people can see for themselves the evidence I presented and the assumptions you have made which falsely claim Hitler supported Zionism. When he was against the formation of a Jewish state.

All the best

You see, you're talking with the benefit of hindsight re the events after the war. The Zionists in 1933 didn't know how it would all pan out, but their best bet was to increase the number of Jews in the area in order to further their plans and ambitions.

Are you suggesting that someone has said Hitler invented Zionism or something? It's not relevant how long the Zionists had been going, or what the possible plans were - in 1933 there was no guarantee that there would be nation for Jews or when.

Can you now explain why what KL said was antisemitic? That was a question I asked you several pages ago.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:44 am

Ken Livingstone will be giving evidence to the Committee today, backing up what he said.

They will also be investigating his defence of Naz Shah.

Livingstone will also present five witness statements from Jewish Labour party members in his defence, all five of whom are involved in anti-Zionist and Palestinian rights activism.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/ken-livingstone-to-appear-before-labour-body-in-expulsion-hearing

I hope there will be a transcript of the hearing. Surprised

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:26 pm

I think this whole incident is a very good example of why you should always check sources as far as possible, and find out what was actually said. It's not difficult in this day and age to find interviews on You Tube or other media.

If we relied totally on the press, we'd get nowhere. The Telegraph is now misrepresenting what KL said, along with many other "bloggers" and newspapers.

Last year Mr Livingstone said Hitler had supported the establishment of a Jewish state in 1932 "before he went mad and murdered six million Jews."


No, he did not say that Hitler supported the establishment of a Jewish state. The Telegraph should check what he actually said.

As for the rest of the claims in the article, I've checked that they haven't misquoted him - just to be sure. He's made some new claims which do need researching. It's all very interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/ken-livingstone-faces-expulsion-labour-party-appears-misconduct/

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/84707/watch-ken-livingstone-says-german-jews




_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:11 pm

Actually he did again say that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/ken-livingstone-repeats-claim-nazi-zionist-collaboration

So much for Rags poor defense of Ken


Edit.

Please read anyone that is supporting Ken, well, what can i say?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/ken-livingstone-labour-party-disrepute-hitler-zionism-former-london-mayor

It says how much some will go to great lengths to deligitimize Jews and to Israel existing.

All you have to understand is the motive of people to why they defend Ken.

Its not rocket science.



• British MP Ken Livingstone is at it again: last year he claimed Nazi policy had the ‘effect of supporting Zionism.’ Livingstone is now doubling down on his prior claim, referring to Jews as SS trained.”  Livingstone is attempting to defend himself against accusations of anti-Semitism before Britain’s National Constitutional Committee this week. His 17 page defense raised questions due to dubious sourcing, including a Wikipedia page entitled “Israel and the Apartheid analogy.” Livingstone’s claims ring especially ironic at this particular moment given the recent re-discovery of a World War II era telegram from Hitler’s deputy Heinrich Himmler to the grand mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, in which Himmler promises that the German Reich will stand behind the Arabs of Palestine and support their struggle against “Jewish intruders.”

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:49 pm

Ken Livingstone could be chucked out of Labour after saying Nazis and Jews 'collaborated' before WWII.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ken-livingstone-could-chucked-out-10130178

So now his true colours show.

Not zionists, but Jews.

Like I said, you only have to understand the motivation behind claims, to understand the hate of Jews itself. is the core reasoning, behind invoking a comparability to Jews and Nazism.

I know I am an atheist, but not only are the 6 million Jewish victims of the holocaust must be turning over in their graves, but so are all the 5 million non Jewish victims. I bet even Ken's solicitor has resigned himself to the fact of Ken now being rightly kicked out of Labour. After that dishonest hateful clanger.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:26 pm

I am sorry, but this is a fine example of antisemitism and conspiracy madness I have just read and it cannot go unpublished.

Scrat wrote:Indeed,,,very little cannot be quantified, I suspect the vast majority of folk treat the diaspora of the Jews with little understanding or concern and for millennia they're treated with caution, and rightly so, much like Christians and Islamist there's no need to despise them but a healthy distance must be kept, usury is their weakness and greed, ultimate greed motivates them.

http://electricsky.forumotion.co.uk/t3963-ken-livingstone-to-appear-before-labour-body-in-expulsion-hearing#55390


I hope the moderators take action elsewhere to say this, is racist hate, as its racism. I do not want to see a ban at all, but a public declaration opposing this antisemitism. On these poor and unfounded stereotypes and conspiracies. That not only place Jews as suspect but to clearly be blamed for persecution they  suffered due to not trusting them by viewing them with caution over centuries based on this paranoid hate. Talk about excusing antisemitism, based off gibberish stereotypes. Hitler would have loved such hate. Where even worse equating all Christians alongside Islamist's (not decent Muslims in general, but equating to Christians and Jews to Islamist Supremacists.)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism



A fine example of how the Far left are becoming the new racist Far right.


Apologies for bringing this here, but this is disgusting.
And this is the apologist defense to Ken, by invoking antisemitic troupes?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:25 am

Thorin wrote:Actually he did again say that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish state.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/ken-livingstone-repeats-claim-nazi-zionist-collaboration

So much for Rags poor defense of Ken


Edit.

Please read anyone that is supporting Ken, well, what can i say?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/ken-livingstone-labour-party-disrepute-hitler-zionism-former-london-mayor

It says how much some will go to great lengths to deligitimize Jews and to Israel existing.

All you have to understand is the motive of people to why they defend Ken.

Its not rocket science.



• British MP Ken Livingstone is at it again: last year he claimed Nazi policy had the ‘effect of supporting Zionism.’ Livingstone is now doubling down on his prior claim, referring to Jews as SS trained.”  Livingstone is attempting to defend himself against accusations of anti-Semitism before Britain’s National Constitutional Committee this week. His 17 page defense raised questions due to dubious sourcing, including a Wikipedia page entitled “Israel and the Apartheid analogy.” Livingstone’s claims ring especially ironic at this particular moment given the recent re-discovery of a World War II era telegram from Hitler’s deputy Heinrich Himmler to the grand mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, in which Himmler promises that the German Reich will stand behind the Arabs of Palestine and support their struggle against “Jewish intruders.”

No, he still didn't say that Hitler supported the creation of a Jewish State.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:31 am

As to whether his claims are true, I haven't had much time to check them because I've had a lot a work to do. I think he's right about the flag, but I'm not sure about the other claims yet.

I will be honest here and say that it would have been best if he hadn't said anything before the hearing. Surprised


Last edited by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:33 am

Thorin wrote:I am sorry, but this is a fine example of antisemitism and conspiracy madness I have just read and it cannot go unpublished.

Scrat wrote:Indeed,,,very little cannot be quantified, I suspect the vast majority of folk treat the diaspora of the Jews with little understanding or concern and for millennia they're treated with caution, and rightly so, much like Christians and Islamist there's no need to despise them but a healthy distance must be kept, usury is their weakness and greed, ultimate greed motivates them.

http://electricsky.forumotion.co.uk/t3963-ken-livingstone-to-appear-before-labour-body-in-expulsion-hearing#55390


I hope the moderators take action elsewhere to say this, is racist hate, as its racism. I do not want to see a ban at all, but a public declaration opposing this antisemitism. On these poor and unfounded stereotypes and conspiracies. That not only place Jews as suspect but to clearly be blamed for persecution they  suffered due to not trusting them by viewing them with caution over centuries based on this paranoid hate. Talk about excusing antisemitism, based off gibberish stereotypes. Hitler would have loved such hate. Where even worse equating all Christians alongside Islamist's (not decent Muslims in general, but equating to Christians and Jews to Islamist Supremacists.)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism



A fine example of how the Far left are becoming the new racist Far right.


Apologies for bringing this here, but this is disgusting.
And this is the apologist defense to Ken, by invoking antisemitic troupes?

Sassy already edited one of his previous posts in another thread, and both her and Irn have pulled him up for some of his comments.


_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:57 pm

Praise for both Irn and sassy speaking out against such blatant antisemitism.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:27 pm

Oh dear - he's played his Ace by implying that Sassy will do this site's "bidding". Laughing

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh dear - he's played his Ace by implying that Sassy will do this site's "bidding". Laughing


Why are you attempting to stir yet again?

I am actually glad Sassy and Irn spoke out on this.

I was shocked to see this last night and could not post there and hope they would see my comments and act.

They did act and I applaud them for doing so, whether they saw my post or not.

Seriously, what is wrong with you, that you seem to get off over confrontation between people?

Grow up

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:34 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Oh dear - he's played his Ace by implying that Sassy will do this site's "bidding". Laughing


Why are you attempting to stir yet again?

I am actually glad Sassy and Irn spoke out on this.

I was shocked to see this last night and could not post there and hope they would see my comments and act.

They did act and I applaud them for doing so, whether they saw my post or not.

Seriously, what is wrong with you, that you seem to get off over confrontation between people?

Grow up

You were the one who stirred it up by bringing his post over here - it was nothing to do with you in the first place. You should grow up.

I was shocked to see this last night and could not post there and hope they would see my comments and act.

Absolute rubbish. You think they're going to read this place before they read their own forum? You were shit stirring.

Anyway, it's most amusing - I wonder what they'll do now. lol!

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:39 pm

So you admit to shit stirring.

As seen, I am very much against antisemitism, which you now seem to think its a joke and amusing to speak out on.

That speaks volumes about the lack of decency within you.

Think what you like of me, I though can have the decency to thank two people I do not get on with. For doing what is right and am happy to state and praise them for doing so. No matter our differences.

I am glad all can see how immature you have acted on this and if you claims its wrong to speak out on antisemitism, no matter off another site. Then report me, because I would love to see what the Moderators view would be, to your deliberately stirring yet again on this forum.

So be my guest. I am very comfortable with what i said.

Lets see if you have the ability to act with that big immature gob of yours

All the best

Laughing

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:42 pm

Thorin wrote:So you admit to shit stirring.

As seen, I am very much against antisemitism, which you now seem to think its a joke and amusing to speak out on.

That speaks volumes about the lack of decency within you.

Think what you like of me, I though can have the decency to thank two people I do not get on with. For doing what is right and am happy to state and praise them for doing so. No matter our differences.

I am glad all can see how immature you have acted on this and if you claims its wrong to speak out on antisemitism, no matter off another sight. Then report me, because I would lose to see what the Moderators view would be, to your deliberately stirring yet again on this forum.

So be my guest. I am very comfortable with what i said.

Lets see if you have the ability to act with that big immature gob of yours

All the best

Laughing

I will - I think you're a tosser, and you're very transparent. You stirred it by bringing a post over here under the pretence of hoping that Sassy would "see it" and do your bidding - like that's ever going to happen. It's not like you thought you were doing your "duty" or anything - stirrer. lol!

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:44 pm

So gutless, abusive and knows she will end up with egg on her face.

Priceless from the forum toddler Rags. She can continue to stir, and I will not attempt to further provide her with the attention she seeks by replying.

Again I would like to thank both Sassy and Irn for speaking out.
Don't know if you have seen my post, but just am thankful you did act.

It was good to see.

So thank you.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:47 pm

Thorin wrote:So gutless, abusive and knows she will end up with egg on her face.

Priceless from the forum toddler Rags. She can continue to stir, and I will not attempt to further provide her with the attention she seeks by replying.

Again I would like to thank both Sassy and Irn for speaking out.
Don't know if you have seen my post, but just am thankful you did act.

It was good to see.

So thank you.

Hahahahahahaaaaaa! You sucking up to them is even funnier. Are you hoping they'll kiss your feet now and invite you over?

That was the third post you brought over here from there so that you can indulge in a childish rant about another forum and try to start a forum dispute. I hope you've learnt your lesson now.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:49 pm

Once again its good to see people standing up to antisemitism and not thinking its a joke, but real.

Thanks again Sassy and Irn

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:50 pm

Thorin wrote:Once again its good to see people standing up to antisemitism and not thinking its a joke, but real.

Thanks again Sassy and Irn

You're the joke.

Why don't you go and post there or are you too gutless?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:54 pm

lololololololololololol

You complaining about people mentioning other forums is the funniest thing that's happened on here for a long time.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:56 pm

Labour has deferred its decision on whether to expel former London Mayor Ken Livingstone for alleged antisemitic remarks as senior party figures broke ranks to claim the shadow cabinet was “sleeping” on the job.
Livingstone – who has been suspended since April last year – has been accused of bringing the party into disrepute by making persistent claims that Adolf Hitler supported Zionism.
After the final day of his disciplinary hearing, held behind closed doors on Friday, the party said it would defer its decision on his future to Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/31/labour-defers-ruling-on-ken-livingstone-antisemitic-remarks


I do hope thy rule against him, so the clown will then take labour to court. He will end up like David Irvine. Shooting himself in the foot.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:59 pm

Whatever they do, it will probably damage the party. He clearly wasn't being antisemitic, and if they chuck him out, they'll just be seen as repressing free speech. If they don't, there will be howls of outrage from those who want to stir it up.


_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:03 pm

Free Speech?

PMSL

Nobody has denied him free speech.
 Its about disassociating Labour from such falsehoods

Another fabrication from the forum Toddler lol

After her attempts to ridicule me failed she now invoked even further gibberish.

I am also glad of her action here, as plenty will read and do this at her actions.



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:07 pm

Thorin wrote:Free Speech?

PMSL

Nobody has denied him free speech.
 Its about disassociating Labour from such falsehoods

Another fabrication from the forum Toddler lol

After her attempts to ridicule me failed she now invoked even further gibberish.

I am also glad of her action here, as plenty will read and do this at her actions.



There were no falsehoods. You are being soooooo childish - you so hate to be shown up for what you really are don't you? Are you going to spam your own thread with childish posts and images? Laughing Once again, you display your own insecurity by hoping to get support from others. See, I don't care what people think of my views. Wink

Anyway, Ken has a lot of support on Twitter and from Jewish Labour members.




_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29436
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Ken Livingstone Warns He Will Sue Labour If He Is Expelled For Anti-Semitism

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 6 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum