The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

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The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:32 am

What is the right punishment for blasphemy?’ asked presenter Shazia Awan in the trailer for yesterday’s The Big Debate. The (entirely justified) outrage over this question  - prompted by Pakistan’s call to Facebook and Twitter to help identify blasphemers – reminded me of a similar BBC slip up from 2009 when readers of the news website were asked ‘should homosexuals face execution?’
The BBC Asian Network has now apologised:
“Apologies for poorly worded question from #AsianNetwork yesterday. Question was in context of Pakistan asking Facebook to help. We should have made that clear.
We never intend to imply Blasphemy should be punished. Provocative question that got it wrong

But the problem went rather deeper than a clumsily worded question. For a start, some of the listeners’ views were grotesque. One caller, Ishaan, was a staunch supporter of Pakistan’s stance and cited Saudi Arabia as a great example of the deterrent effect of hudud punishments. Waajid also expressed support for blasphemy laws in an Islamic state and said he was upset that Salman Rushdie was still alive.

Shocking though such views are, some of the apparently softer comments were almost equally concerning.  Aisha, for example, opposed harsh punishment but still advised counselling for blasphemers, and wondered who, in their right mind, would want to blaspheme in a Mu slim country.

I thought it was possible that she made this particular point because she felt Islam was perfect, so you’d have to be mad to turn against it. Presenter Shazia Awan assumed it was because people would be too scared of punishment to blaspheme (around 25:00). However that point – arguably rather an important one – remained unexamined.

Dell – in the understatement of the show – said he thought the death penalty went ‘a little bit too far’.
Shazia Awan projected herself as a voice of reason – she asserted that in her view capital punishment for blasphemy was ‘inhumane’.

But she fell into a disquieting pattern of implying that complete support for freedom of speech was some kind of outlying position.

Tellingly, in her introduction, she didn’t choose to say that critics of Pakistan’s blasphemy laws thought they were plain wrong, but that
Critics say blasphemy laws which allow the death penalty in some cases are often abused to oppress minorities.

Here’s another example of the way her rhetoric veered towards an (illiberal but not murderous) middle ground.
What do you think is the right punishment for blasphemy. Should there even be a punishment for it?

When countering a caller attacking Rushdie, her defence of freedom of speech was decidedly tepid:
For writing a book, for an author in the west, do you not think that the death penalty is a step too far?

But the middle ground isn’t always the correct position.  As Sunny Hundal put it:
The punishment should be nothing – it should never be a crime.

It’s worth listening to the rising note of excited incredulity in Shazia Awan’s voice as she read out that tweet.  (around 56:00)

But it wasn’t all bad.  Strong defences of freedom of speech were offered by several callers and texters ; these included Adil, who thought blasphemy laws were a ridiculous hangover from the Middle Ages, and Kumar, who said his faith was strong, but felt ‘it should be open to any criticism or ridicule’.


http://hurryupharry.org/2017/03/18/the-bbc-asian-network-and-the-goldilocks-fallacy/

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:34 pm

And you wonder why we don't want mass Muslim immigration...

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by eddie on Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And you wonder why we don't want mass Muslim immigration...

Are you speaking on behalf of everyone? Your "we" should be "I" if you are stating your own opinion.

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:52 pm

We as in the people who are opposed to it... and that is a lot of people ..

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:25 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:We as in the people who are opposed to it... and that is a lot of people ..

But you are just like the Hill shepherds of Pakistan too Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
this is what you don't realize YOU are the same as them,
wishing the punishment of exile on those you believe as blasphemous against Britain.
you just support a British version of 'hill shepherd' ideals they support a Pakistani one.
you are all idiots. Cool

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:42 pm

What the fuck are you talking about!?

Your whole post was twisted nonsense!!!

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:21 am

you are both slaves to tribal mentalities. (a.k.a. hill shepherds)

To the 'Globalized Multiculturalist', you are the same...
both obsolete beings. relics from an archaic era where homo sapiens would mindlessly defend their 'tribe' from interlopers, much like Chimps still do today. Both the 'European racist' and 'Muslim Fundamentalist' are essentially the same ape, just belonging to different tribes, the differences between you are less significant than your similarities.

But your Primitive tribal minds are incapable of seeing it.


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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by nicko on Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:44 am

You are as insignificant as a flea on the arse of an Elephant.
As are your opinions !
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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:55 pm



What a twat!!!



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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:26 pm

Better than you 2 losers

Face it You are SO SHIT
that You know you can't compete with migrants
so fear them like the coward scum you are


Last edited by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:55 pm



A race to the bottom is a competition we don't want to be part of...


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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:06 am

good thing you don't get a choice
All you do is make your nation weaker,
Globalized Community is going to take over Britain Regardless of what you want.
You have as much choice as the Aboriginals
Some future racist will undoubtedly call you a 'dingle berry picker' for your backwards culture and attitude.

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:30 am

We do get a choice here in uk... it's called 'democracy'... and we all get a say in it, where each of us get 'a vote'...


Now we all know that the concept of democracy has been around for at least 2500 years or so...


But even here in uk, it is not something we have always had...


In fact... it is something the vast majority of British people here were denied until 100 years ago...


In 1918, all men over 21 and women over 30 won the right to vote, and in 1928 all women over 21 won the right to vote resulting in universal suffrage.

And for the nearly 100 years before this...

Reform Act 1832 – extended voting rights to adult males who rented propertied land of a certain value, so allowing 1 in 7 males in the UK voting rights.
Suffrage - Wikipedia


And what do you think it was like before then!?


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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:23 am

No you wont
It's called Money and power. which will be removed from your nation until you are walked over too weak to resist.

Plus notice that the Youth of the UK wanted the opposite of you, they will out number the old obsolete hills shepherds eventually, the internet means they wont stay as ignorant as you. they will have grown up exposed to the Globalized community and our tools and means of production, which are simple greater then you pathetic fear of foreigners.

Your choice will be ignored, Sure you will leave the EU only to become a US vassal.
But what you want, Is like the Aboriginals wishing Britain had never set sail.
Too late The winds of change have already started. the more you resist the harder it will be for your grandchildren since you will have squandered the time trying to push back the tides, rather then learning to swim.


LOL and thanks for showing my point in the other thread...
WE, us Aussies extended this to you... cause even the evil empire could not fight the progress of democracy forever. (even if you did fight hard and viciously against it)

In 1902, Australia was the first country in the world to give women both the right to vote in federal elections and also the right to be elected to parliament on a national basis.


In the 1850s, limited self-government was granted to South Australia (1856), Victoria (1857), New South Wales (1858) and Tasmania (1896): all adult (21 years) male British subjects became entitled to vote.
All men in NSW gained the right to vote regardless of property 60 years before the UK.
We gave women the vote 26 years before you too.

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:04 am

All that shows is that the vast majority of us in uk were subjugated for much longer... essentially slaves ourselves to the command of the minority ruling elite...


If I was alive 100 years ago... I wouldn't even have been able to vote!!!


My great grandfather was alive then... and was too busy getting blown up at the somme to vote... not that he had ever had a chance to vote on any of it...


How can you seriously even start to try to blame the vast majority of today's British people for anything that happened over 100 years ago, when this was before our subjugated peasant/slave ancestors were even allowed to vote!!!???

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:27 am

Because your Peasant slave ancestors Accepted the Queens shilling and thus culpable in slowing the spread of democracy...
The red coats should have used those Muskets against the aristocrats AND today the British Should Definitely not be pretending that the empire was something other should be grateful for. Since as you say it was just an enslaver even of it's own...
(You are the first Brit I have seen admit such by the way Wink )

But that doesn't mean that you should not pay reparations, we do even though many were sent here in chains. we gained and now it is only right to rise others up with us.

And it doesn't mean the UK can isolate it's self from the inevitability of globalization that has already conquered most of the world.. it is progress, the societies of humanity have always expended it is inevitable that a system will one day cover the whole planet.. the choice is to engage with it and try and 'cultivate' it to be beneficial.. or ignore it until it takes over via force. push the wheels of progress or be crushed beneath them. Yesterday will never be restored.

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:53 am





What democracy...!?


You never heard of the 'press gang'...?


Democracy is a long hard fought and hard won thing here in uk... and we still haven't really had much of it over the last 100 years if you take into account the war time and strict govt controls with rations etc... then almost immediately after that the corrupt politicians started giving it away to the eu!!!


To where we are now where we have to try to wrestle it back with brexit and however many years after where we can rewrite our laws/rules for us here in uk as we want them!!!




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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:12 am

yes but trump and brexiters (let alone the Nazis and countless dictators) have shown it doesn't really work...


Besides the world is moving faster now
Democracy and Bureaucracy are old news
they will be replaced soon enough.

YES you where among the last to gain democracy BECAUSE YOU FOUGHT AGAINST IT and you do the same today with globalization. talk about repeating mistakes through stubborn stupidity

Progress is not just continuing it is accelerating
We are opening up new worlds of opportunity via technology and the hill shepherds is trying to slow it down (in the past it was the aristocrat)
You are not going to get back anything. You will succumb. You can resist but like I said it is just pushing your peoples further behind those that embrace the changes.

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:09 pm

I don't fight against democracy... I fight for it!!!



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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't fight against democracy... I fight for it!!!



So your anti British culture???? confused confused confused

British Culture Is Traditionally Anti Democracy.
It fought multiple wars of oppression against the establishment of Democracy across the planet.
as recently as the early 1900's it actively killed peoples that sought democracy in their homelands (Ireland being a glaring example)

OR do you think that it is right that British Culture is dynamic and changing???
Which sort of makes your whole political position on keeping things 'British' moot. Suspect Suspect Suspect

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:41 pm



We didn't have democracy then...

We have only had a glimpse of it through the fog of two world wars and heavy govt controls for many years afterwards with rationing etc... then the politicians decided to remove our democracy by handing all the powers over to the eu for the next few decades...


We are still trying to get democracy!!!



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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:43 pm

Yes Because British Culture is Traditionally Anti Democracy.

SO are you anti British culture?
OR Do you think it is RIGHT that British Culture Changes?

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:54 pm

You don't know what you're talking about...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/revolution_01.shtml

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:23 am

Your the one that even said above you have had it for only 100 years and less than that for women.

So Cleary Anti democracy fighting time and time again against groups seeking democracy. since 1776 to early 1900's

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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:46 am



And again you confirm that you don't know what you're talking about...



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Re: The BBC Asian Network and the Goldilocks fallacy

Post by nicko on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:43 am

He never knows what he's talking about TOM,he lives in cloud cuckoo land.
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