Can you solve the chess problem which holds key to human consciousness?

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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:33 am

First topic message reminder :

It might look like a simple chess problem, but this puzzle could finally help scientists uncover what makes the human mind so unique, and why it may never be matched by a computer. 75 years after Bletchley Park sought codebreakers in the Second World War by placing a crossword in The Telegraph, scientists are again inviting readers to pit their wits against a new conundrum to find the quickest minds.

The puzzle coincides with the launch of the new Penrose Institute, founded by Sir Roger Penrose, emeritus Professor at the Mathematical Institute of Oxford, who shared the World Prize in physics with Professor Stephen Hawking in 1988 for his work on black hole singularities. The new institute, which will have arms at UCL and Oxford University, has been set up to study human consciousness through physics and tease out the fundamental differences between artificial and human intelligence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/03/14/can-solve-chess-problem-holds-key-human-consciousness/

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:10 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:


I can get stalemate in 3 moves.

Lot easier than 50 moves


Go on then...?


Tell...?


Threefold repetition., so really 6 moves.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:11 pm

Which is...?

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Which is...?

Stalemate

You used 50 moves

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:15 pm

Please explain this sequence of moves you claim...?

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Please explain this sequence of moves you claim...?

The same position will occur 3 times.

ie, I move my king to one position, then move it back, with the opponent doing the same
This is repeated 3 times.
This is possible to happen.

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:23 pm

Oh and I have figured out how white can win, which would take a major blunder from black.

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:27 pm

I will PM the answer to Ben, as Eddie is offline

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:39 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Please explain this sequence of moves you claim...?

The same position will occur 3 times.

ie, I move my king to one position, then move it back, with the opponent doing the same
This is repeated 3 times.
This is possible to happen.

Not when black wants to win and would move differently to avoid that...

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:

The same position will occur 3 times.

ie, I move my king to one position, then move it back, with the opponent doing the same
This is repeated 3 times.
This is possible to happen.

Not when black wants to win and would move differently to avoid that...

It would if he blundered, just like the win Tommy.
Again is it possible?
The answer is yes.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:43 pm

Thorin wrote:I will PM the answer to Ben, as Eddie is offline

Just post it up in the open...

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:I will PM the answer to Ben, as Eddie is offline

Just post it up in the open...

I have posted it to Ben.

Laughing

And I will see you tomorrow, as off to bed.

Night

Laughing

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:50 pm



Took you long enough to think of an answer!!!

Or was it just a long Google...!?


lol!

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Took you long enough to think of an answer!!!

Or was it just a long Google...!?


lol!

Just sat there and figured it out, it was stupidly staring me in the face as it was too obvious

Night Tommy

Laughing


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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:02 am

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Well... I have posted my answer to part (a) out in the open...


Eddie will have to post yours...


Unless you start trying to complain about posting of PMS or something...?

lol!

Put your iccle dick back in your pants and use it to stir your tea.

This was my pm to Eddie, she'll verify it, posted before you posted your answer:

Keep moving the white king on white square, black bishops can only move on black squares.


Under the 50 move rule if nothing it taken after 50 moves the game comes to an end and a draw is called.


Come on sassquatch... i was only teasing you... where's your sense of humour...?


lol!

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:43 am

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Which is...?

Stalemate

You used 50 moves

Smile

I can see a possible stalemate in 3 moves by white ?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:54 am



Go on then... tell us...?


But remember... you are only moving white pieces... not able to do silly black moves just to support a result of your choosing...



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Post by Syl on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:13 pm

This is all above me...I am good at draughts though. Razz

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:47 pm

I can confirm that:

I did indeed receive that PM from sassy
I did not receive a PM from Tommy
I do not have a clue what you're all saying
I did not think the joke was funny, Ben don't tell it again in public.

That is all.

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Post by nicko on Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:27 pm

Syl, you took the words right out of my mouth, I was just about to post that !!
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Post by Syl on Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:24 pm

nicko wrote:Syl,  you took the words right out of my mouth,  I was just about to post that !!

Lol...draughts are fun, I play my grandson...best out of three, unfortunately he usually beats me nowadays. Laughing

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:54 pm

eddie wrote:I can confirm that:

I did indeed receive that PM from sassy
I did not receive a PM from Tommy
I do not have a clue what you're all saying
I did not think the joke was funny, Ben don't tell it again in public.

That is all.

I did not send answer via pm... I just posted it directly up on this thread instead.


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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Here's the win answer...


It is possible for white to win... it involves getting the pawn at c6 up to c8 and promoting it to a queen... if black king hasnt moved then that is immediately checkmate... getting white king to d7 would stop any chance of black king moving to b7 and then taking queen at c8, again resulting in checkmate.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:22 pm

Syl wrote:
nicko wrote:Syl,  you took the words right out of my mouth,  I was just about to post that !!

Lol...draughts are fun, I play my grandson...best out of three, unfortunately he usually beats me nowadays. Laughing


Chess is a bit like draughts... but where there are a few extra types of pieces with their own ways of being able to move about...


In draughts... there are only 'pawn' type pieces to start... and only promoted to 'king' after making it to other side of board... where they can then move in all directions and as many squares as you like in each turn of move...


In chess... a queen is able to move like that all the time!!!

And a pawn can mostly only move one square at a time (like a regular draught piece) but only forwards to advance, not diagonally, can only move diagonally to 'take/capture' an opponents piece...

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here's the win answer...


It is possible for white to win... it involves getting the pawn at c6 up to c8 and promoting it to a queen... if black king hasnt moved then that is immediately checkmate... getting white king to d7 would stop any chance of black king moving to b7 and then taking queen at c8, again resulting in checkmate.

Yes I told ben this and explained far better, but its not really the solution.
What is the solution is being able to show, how you would make Black commit a blunder.
Even I cannot figure that one out.

From Thorin To Ben Reilly, Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:49 pm

To win, requires the 3 bishops moving off the present diagonal they are on, that is covering the white pawn parallel to the black king being able to move up one space forward. At present, if the pawn moves up, the black bishop will capture it.  If black fails to cover that square, the pawn will be able to move one forward and black will be screwed, as nothing he does will stop that pawn in the next go. Moving up one more forward and gaining promotion. By exchanging the pawn for a bishop or a queen, that places black in checkmate.

How you could make black blunder though would be clearly through carelessness on their part through forcing the bishops back with the king. Black could easily make a mistake.

Now I really have to go.

Night

Cool

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:30 pm

The question wasn't about explaining how black could prevent a white win... it was about explaining how it was possible for white to win...

Explanation = possible white win!

Unlikely...but possible!


Last edited by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The question wasn't about explaining how black could prevent a white win... it was about explaining how it was possible for white to win...

Explanation = possible white wine!

Unlikely...but possible!

But you cannot show how you would bring about that win.

That is the solution, as how do you make black blunder, in order to win.

I can tie you up in knots over this.

"The main goal is to force a draw, although it is even possible to "trick" black into a blunder that might allow white to win."

Now you have to show me the trick Tommy, in order to solve the solution.

Cool

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:50 pm

How stupid can I make black in this scenario...!?

lol!

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:How stupid can I make black in this scenario...!?

lol!


More intelligent than you obviously, as you are unable to trick him into a mistake.

What a massive own goal

Laughing

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:01 am

Anyway, I must go Tommy

All the best and goodnight, am utterly shattered

Smile

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:18 am


Again... the question was to say 'how' a possible white win may be achieved... overall objective plan... to achieve result... not move by move clairvoyance...


Opponents skill level wasn't part of the question!


The win is possible if the positions can be reached!

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:30 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Again... the question was to say 'how' a possible white win may be achieved... overall objective plan... to achieve result... not move by move clairvoyance...


Opponents skill level wasn't part of the question!


The win is possible if the positions can be reached!

If and its a big if, is how you get there, to obtain the solution.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:00 am

That was not the question... question was if possible...

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:09 am

I think it's quite easy really, and I haven't played chess for years. Laughing

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Post by nicko on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:50 am

I find Snakes and Ladders quite challenging !
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Post by Syl on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

Lol...draughts are fun, I play my grandson...best out of three, unfortunately he usually beats me nowadays. Laughing


Chess is a bit like draughts... but where there are a few extra types of pieces with their own ways of being able to move about...


In draughts... there are only 'pawn' type pieces to start... and only promoted to 'king' after making it to other side of board... where they can then move in all directions and as many squares as you like in each turn of move...


In chess... a queen is able to move like that all the time!!!

And a pawn can mostly only move one square at a time (like a regular draught piece) but only forwards to advance, not diagonally, can only move diagonally to 'take/capture' an opponents piece...

I watch my son play sometimes Tommy...it needs more concentration than I can muster, but its a good game I'm sure.

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