Donald Trump Vent Thread

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Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

You have a very unhealthy obsession with Trump !
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:22 am


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:59 pm

More Trump drug-induced paranoia....

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:45 am

The unhinged POTUS strikes again.....

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:09 am


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:14 am


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:01 am

some good news

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:27 pm


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:09 pm

Trump the traitor.....


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:58 pm

Hah, hah, hah. This may be my favorite!


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:09 pm


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:21 pm

I'd say that mouth has banged a lot of things....

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:28 pm


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

NOT!!!

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:01 am

He's worse than Rosemary's baby.....


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:47 pm

If only......

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:03 pm

Now, we have the proof!! LOL


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:59 pm

Trump's new Housing and Urban Development Secretary, Ben Carson.......


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:10 am


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:22 pm

Six most dangerous idiots on the planet....

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 pm

Any reason, my fellow mods, that this thread was locked?

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:51 pm

No idea. Unless it was done by mistake.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:36 am

Who was responsible for locking this thread, and is he or she going to be put in the basement for a period?  It's unprecedented and someone on NewsFix is pro-censorship.  That is contrary to the rules and the open spirit of debate on this site.

Unless the person is Donald Trump, I think it's appropriate that people pay for the consequences of their actions. I would recommend two weeks in the gaol because abuse of authority is much greater than simple membership abuse.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:43 am

Idea

Now this thread has been split...

Maybe it should have "Part Deux" added to it's title  ?         tongue

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:19 am

No unless it was by mistake,
I'm on a dodgey internet connection

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:29 am

ohh well we got 2 trump vent threads now Cool Cool Cool

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:11 am

Original Quill wrote:Who was responsible for locking this thread, and is he or she going to be put in the basement for a period?  It's unprecedented and someone on NewsFix is pro-censorship.  That is contrary to the rules and the open spirit of debate on this site.

Unless the person is Donald Trump, I think it's appropriate that people pay for the consequences of their actions.  I would recommend two weeks in the gaol because abuse of authority is much greater than simple membership abuse.

It wasnt this thread that was locked it was the other one:
http://www.newsfixboard.com/t18769p950-donald-trump-vent-thread#385753

and I don't think any of the admin did it on purpose. As you're scrolling it can be easy to click on something by mistake.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:15 am

Perhaps some one got fed up of the perpetual spamming and whining.
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:17 am

Perhaps some one got fed up of the perpetual spamming and whining.
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:27 am

nicko wrote:Perhaps some one got fed up of the perpetual spamming and whining.

No. We didn't. No one LOCKED it on purpose and you don't have to click on a thread you know causes you some irritation.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:28 am

nicko wrote:Perhaps some one got fed up of the perpetual spamming and whining.


That's the second time you've said that.
Irony.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:10 am



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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:33 am

Simply to seek an honest answer  (and no, I have no intention of offering myself as perpetrator because (a) I am not a sufficiently committed Right Winger and (b) it would very quickly bore me just as much as it would probably bore everyone else), but if a Jeremy Corbyn Vent Thread was launched by one of we Brits and spammed - er, sorry - fed on a daily basis with political cartoons, comments, insults, innuendo and invective pointing out what an absolute tosspot the tub-thumping and unreconstitiuted Marxist the man is, would that also be dismissed as an "irritation" and guaranteed a lock-free future?
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Lurker on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:19 pm

nicko wrote:Perhaps some one got fed up of the perpetual spamming and whining.


If you are NOT whining about Trump you are insane.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:21 pm

Your country men voted him in, we had nothing to do with it.
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:28 pm

I don't think any Brit would moan as much as Lurker, he's totally obsessed with the man, it takes over his entire life.

Have a Toke mate and chill out, nothing you, and any one else here will say, will have the slightest effect on your Donald !
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:46 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Simply to seek an honest answer  (and no, I have no intention of offering myself as perpetrator because (a) I am not a sufficiently committed Right Winger and (b) it would very quickly bore me just as much as it would probably bore everyone else), but if a Jeremy Corbyn Vent Thread was launched by one of we Brits and spammed - er, sorry - fed on a daily basis with political cartoons, comments, insults, innuendo and invective pointing out what an absolute tosspot the tub-thumping and unreconstitiuted Marxist the man is, would that also be dismissed as an "irritation" and guaranteed a lock-free future?

Is Jeremy Corbyn your prime minister?

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:Simply to seek an honest answer  (and no, I have no intention of offering myself as perpetrator because (a) I am not a sufficiently committed Right Winger and (b) it would very quickly bore me just as much as it would probably bore everyone else), but if a Jeremy Corbyn Vent Thread was launched by one of we Brits and spammed - er, sorry - fed on a daily basis with political cartoons, comments, insults, innuendo and invective pointing out what an absolute tosspot the tub-thumping and unreconstitiuted Marxist the man is, would that also be dismissed as an "irritation" and guaranteed a lock-free future?

Is Jeremy Corbyn your prime minister?

No, but he would like to be.

He is Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, which is an office of state under our constitution, and a member of the Privy Council (the body of advisers to the Monarch) so surely the same principle applies.


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:59 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Simply to seek an honest answer  (and no, I have no intention of offering myself as perpetrator because (a) I am not a sufficiently committed Right Winger and (b) it would very quickly bore me just as much as it would probably bore everyone else), but if a Jeremy Corbyn Vent Thread was launched by one of we Brits and spammed - er, sorry - fed on a daily basis with political cartoons, comments, insults, innuendo and invective pointing out what an absolute tosspot the tub-thumping and unreconstitiuted Marxist the man is, would that also be dismissed as an "irritation" and guaranteed a lock-free future?

We had Brexit threads going for weeks! The memes for Trump are all kept on the same thread, I really don't see the problem.
I have an astrology thread that only I post on and it's locked. Not one person has complained.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:03 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Is Jeremy Corbyn your prime minister?

No, but he would like to be.

He is her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition, which is an office of state under our constitution, so surely the same principle applies.

I know who Corbyn is. My question was pointed. People are concerned about Trump because he is the nearest thing to Hitler the west has seen since Hitler. He has achieved the status of head of state, and as such, he is very dangerous.

He needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:03 pm

eddie wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:Simply to seek an honest answer  (and no, I have no intention of offering myself as perpetrator because (a) I am not a sufficiently committed Right Winger and (b) it would very quickly bore me just as much as it would probably bore everyone else), but if a Jeremy Corbyn Vent Thread was launched by one of we Brits and spammed - er, sorry - fed on a daily basis with political cartoons, comments, insults, innuendo and invective pointing out what an absolute tosspot the tub-thumping and unreconstitiuted Marxist the man is, would that also be dismissed as an "irritation" and guaranteed a lock-free future?

We had Brexit threads going for weeks!  The memes for Trump are all kept on the same thread, I really don't see the problem.
I have an astrology thread that only I post on and it's locked. Not one person has complained.

I just wondered.....

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by eddie on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:07 pm

Lurker I have PM'd you.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

No, but he would like to be.

He is her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition, which is an office of state under our constitution, so surely the same principle applies.

I know who Corbyn is.  My question was pointed.  People are concerned about Trump because he is the nearest thing to Hitler the west has seen since Hitler.  He has achieved the status of head of state, and as such, he is very dangerous.

He needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort.

I am aware that your question was pointed - and so, perhaps, is my answer.

Corbyn is a Marxist and a proven hypocrite who voted against his own party leadership on something like 130 separate occasions during his time as a back bench MP and now demands loyalty and obedience from his own MPs on pain of disciplinary action and probable compulsory de-selection by their constituencies.

He also owes his position to a change in party rules before the leadership election that allowed anyone - yes, anyone - to cast a vote in return for a cheque for three quid to Labour Party coffers.
Of course, inflation being what it is, the price is now £25, but I understand that the ultra-Left Trade Unions who are hie effective paymasters are happy to reimburse the faithful!

The fact is that God-knows-how-many Trots, Marxists, Anarchists and other Loony Left individuals were simply able to buy a piece of the action so far as the choice of our possible "Prime Minister in Waiting" was concerned.

People are concerned about Corbyn because he is the nearest thing to Stalin that we in this country have seen since Stalin. He seeks to achieve the status of Prime Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, and as such, he is very dangerous.

My personal opinion is that he, too, "...needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort."

And as I am sure you are already aware, that is meant as no endorsement of Trump; the fact that he now holds the key to the nuclear codes is enough, believe me, to send shivers down my spine.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:40 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I know who Corbyn is.  My question was pointed.  People are concerned about Trump because he is the nearest thing to Hitler the west has seen since Hitler.  He has achieved the status of head of state, and as such, he is very dangerous.

He needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort.

I am aware that your question was pointed - and so, perhaps, is my answer.

Corbyn is a Marxist and a proven hypocrite who voted against his own party leadership on something like 130 separate occasions during his time as a back bench MP and now demands loyalty and obedience from his own MPs on pain of disciplinary action and probable compulsory de-selection by their constituencies.

He also owes his position to a change in party rules before the leadership election that allowed anyone - yes, anyone - to cast a vote in return for a cheque for three quid to Labour Party coffers.
Of course, inflation being what it is, the price is now £25, but I understand that the ultra-Left Trade Unions who are hie effective paymasters are happy to reimburse the faithful!

The fact is that God-knows-how-many Trots, Marxists, Anarchists and other Loony Left individuals were simply able to buy a piece of the action so far as the choice of our possible "Prime  Minister in Waiting" was concerned.

People are concerned about Corbyn because he is the nearest thing to Stalin that we in this country have seen since Stalin.  He seeks to achieve the status of Prime Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, and as such, he is very dangerous.

My personal opinion is that he, too, "...needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort."

And as I am sure you are already aware, that is meant as no endorsement of Trump; the fact that he now holds the key to the nuclear codes is enough, believe me, to send shivers down my spine.

We have lots of charlatans, too. They abound in politics in democratic nations. But in a world of incremental normalcy they offer no threat as they are weeded and tossed out.

In a world of catastrophic abnormalcy, they actually get to the top. Then you have a crisis on your hands. That's the situation in the US today.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by sassy on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:01 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I know who Corbyn is.  My question was pointed.  People are concerned about Trump because he is the nearest thing to Hitler the west has seen since Hitler.  He has achieved the status of head of state, and as such, he is very dangerous.

He needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort.

I am aware that your question was pointed - and so, perhaps, is my answer.

Corbyn is a Marxist and a proven hypocrite who voted against his own party leadership on something like 130 separate occasions during his time as a back bench MP and now demands loyalty and obedience from his own MPs on pain of disciplinary action and probable compulsory de-selection by their constituencies.

He also owes his position to a change in party rules before the leadership election that allowed anyone - yes, anyone - to cast a vote in return for a cheque for three quid to Labour Party coffers.
Of course, inflation being what it is, the price is now £25, but I understand that the ultra-Left Trade Unions who are hie effective paymasters are happy to reimburse the faithful!

The fact is that God-knows-how-many Trots, Marxists, Anarchists and other Loony Left individuals were simply able to buy a piece of the action so far as the choice of our possible "Prime  Minister in Waiting" was concerned.

People are concerned about Corbyn because he is the nearest thing to Stalin that we in this country have seen since Stalin.  He seeks to achieve the status of Prime Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, and as such, he is very dangerous.

My personal opinion is that he, too, "...needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort."

And as I am sure you are already aware, that is meant as no endorsement of Trump; the fact that he now holds the key to the nuclear codes is enough, believe me, to send shivers down my spine.



Sometimes Fred, you come out with such a load of old horseshit its unbelievable, and sound like a throwback to feudal times.

Corbyn never plotted against again Labour leader, he help Tony Benn when he was standing as leader against Kinnock, and he voted against things that he believed were against socialism and against the interests of the working class and the sick and vunerable. In other words, he stood up for decency, would more politicians could say the same.

If by Marxist, we mean he supports Marx's ideas that:

Capitalism leads to the alienation of groups of people
That, under capitalism, segments of society exploit other segments of society
That capitalism cannot maintain the living standards of the population
That industry should move towards co-operative ownership
That the country should focus more on what satisfy human needs rather than on private profits.

Then yes, Corbyn is a Marxist, as is Liz Kendall, as is Yvette Cooper, as is Andy Burnham, as is over half the Labour party.

(Of course, classical Marxism also advocates the idea that socialism is inevitable and that the proletariat will rise up in revolution. I have omitted this because a) We can all agree Corbyn isn't trying to be a revolutionary and b) Marx suggested this before universal suffrage became a thing, and he believed that as the upper classes controlled the government, there was no hope the governments would look after the working-class. Later in his life, he rescinded this view, noting how society had changed towards universal suffrage and came round to the belief that socialism could come about through democratic reform)

Now if you mean Leninism/Marxism-Leninism (i.e. the political ideology that the Soviet Union said is the only legitimate development of Marxism), then that depends on the particular aspect. If we take the social aspects of:

Support for a universal social welfare system.
Improving public education and health systems
Provision of child care
Provision of benefits
Ending the exploitation of women

Then Corbyn supports those as does the entire Labour party and some members of the Tory party... If we mean the social aspects of

abolition of private property
The use of propaganda to teach people to abide by the ideals of communism

Then he does not support these.

If we take the economic aspect of Marxism-Leninism that:

Market forces should be replaced with scientific planning
That the value of a good or service should be determined by its use value
That wages should be set according to the skill and intensity of the work
That all industry should be under state ownership.

Then Corbyn couldn't be any further from this. As far as I am aware he has never advocated a change in the way that goods should valued or wages set. And although he believe natural monopolies and major infrastructure should come under public ownership, he seems to support the idea that private businesses and corporations should be allowed to exist.

If we take the political aspect of Marxism-Leninism that

The state should be controlled by a single-party of Marxism-Leninism principles
The use of a vanguard party to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat

Then Corbyn absolutely does not support this. If anything, he supports further reform to allow more parties to have influence.

tl;dr Discussions on whether someone is or isn't a Marxist are complicated by the fact that Marxism is an incredibly broad church of beliefs ranging from the very fringes of the far left, to aspects of the One Nation Conservative vision. Ultimately, its meaningless to call someone a Marxist in the 21st century as all being Marxist means is that you think capitalism leads to a significant chunk of people being worse off and that something should be done about it.

EDIT: I think the revolutionary aspect of Marx's original philosophy is something that is overstressed not only by opponents wishing to denigrate socialism, but by left-wing nutjobs who wish to justify their desire for violence, in both cases missing the historical context in which Marx uttered those words. You have to remember, at the time Marx came up with the Communist Manifesto, the majority of Europe was either an absolute monarchy or, at best, ran democracies that heavily weighted in favour of votes by landed gentry (hell up until 1948, property owners effectively got two votes in the UK). At the time, it would have been inconceivable that a government would move towards helping those who are living on the bottom rung of society as they didn't depend on the working class to remain in power. Therefore, to Marx, revolution would have been the only option. 24 years after publishing the Communist Manifesto, Marx admitted that in developed countries "labour may attain its goal by peaceful means", suggesting he had stood down from the idea that revolution was necessary.

The above quote is from https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/3erji9/is_corbyn_a_marxist/


Whatever people want to call him, he is one of the few standing against the vileness of the Conservatives and their hatred for the poor, sick and disabled. I wish there were more like him.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by sassy on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:18 pm

And PS, he doesn't owe his majority to the £3 people, who by the way were not allowed to vote in the second election, he won the vote of the established Labour Party members and had a huge majority of the CLP's behind him as well. You're as good at twisting the truth to your own agenda as Trump!


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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:18 pm

sassy wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

I am aware that your question was pointed - and so, perhaps, is my answer.

Corbyn is a Marxist and a proven hypocrite who voted against his own party leadership on something like 130 separate occasions during his time as a back bench MP and now demands loyalty and obedience from his own MPs on pain of disciplinary action and probable compulsory de-selection by their constituencies.

He also owes his position to a change in party rules before the leadership election that allowed anyone - yes, anyone - to cast a vote in return for a cheque for three quid to Labour Party coffers.
Of course, inflation being what it is, the price is now £25, but I understand that the ultra-Left Trade Unions who are hie effective paymasters are happy to reimburse the faithful!

The fact is that God-knows-how-many Trots, Marxists, Anarchists and other Loony Left individuals were simply able to buy a piece of the action so far as the choice of our possible "Prime  Minister in Waiting" was concerned.

People are concerned about Corbyn because he is the nearest thing to Stalin that we in this country have seen since Stalin.  He seeks to achieve the status of Prime Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, and as such, he is very dangerous.

My personal opinion is that he, too, "...needs and deserves endless and severe opposition until the nation is purged of him and his sort."

And as I am sure you are already aware, that is meant as no endorsement of Trump; the fact that he now holds the key to the nuclear codes is enough, believe me, to send shivers down my spine.



Sometimes Fred, you come out with such a load of old horseshit its unbelievable, and sound like a throwback to feudal times.

Corbyn never plotted against again Labour leader, he help Tony Benn when he was standing as leader against Kinnock, and he voted against things that he believed were against socialism and against the interests of the working class and the sick and vunerable.   In other words, he stood up for decency, would more politicians could say the same.

If by Marxist, we mean he supports Marx's ideas that:

   Capitalism leads to the alienation of groups of people
   That, under capitalism, segments of society exploit other segments of society
   That capitalism cannot maintain the living standards of the population
   That industry should move towards co-operative ownership
   That the country should focus more on what satisfy human needs rather than on private profits.

Then yes, Corbyn is a Marxist, as is Liz Kendall, as is Yvette Cooper, as is Andy Burnham, as is over half the Labour party.

(Of course, classical Marxism also advocates the idea that socialism is inevitable and that the proletariat will rise up in revolution. I have omitted this because a) We can all agree Corbyn isn't trying to be a revolutionary and b) Marx suggested this before universal suffrage became a thing, and he believed that as the upper classes controlled the government, there was no hope the governments would look after the working-class. Later in his life, he rescinded this view, noting how society had changed towards universal suffrage and came round to the belief that socialism could come about through democratic reform)

Now if you mean Leninism/Marxism-Leninism (i.e. the political ideology that the Soviet Union said is the only legitimate development of Marxism), then that depends on the particular aspect. If we take the social aspects of:

   Support for a universal social welfare system.
   Improving public education and health systems
   Provision of child care
   Provision of benefits
   Ending the exploitation of women

Then Corbyn supports those as does the entire Labour party and some members of the Tory party... If we mean the social aspects of

   abolition of private property
   The use of propaganda to teach people to abide by the ideals of communism

Then he does not support these.

If we take the economic aspect of Marxism-Leninism that:

   Market forces should be replaced with scientific planning
   That the value of a good or service should be determined by its use value
   That wages should be set according to the skill and intensity of the work
   That all industry should be under state ownership.

Then Corbyn couldn't be any further from this. As far as I am aware he has never advocated a change in the way that goods should valued or wages set. And although he believe natural monopolies and major infrastructure should come under public ownership, he seems to support the idea that private businesses and corporations should be allowed to exist.

If we take the political aspect of Marxism-Leninism that

   The state should be controlled by a single-party of Marxism-Leninism principles
   The use of a vanguard party to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat

Then Corbyn absolutely does not support this. If anything, he supports further reform to allow more parties to have influence.

tl;dr Discussions on whether someone is or isn't a Marxist are complicated by the fact that Marxism is an incredibly broad church of beliefs ranging from the very fringes of the far left, to aspects of the One Nation Conservative vision. Ultimately, its meaningless to call someone a Marxist in the 21st century as all being Marxist means is that you think capitalism leads to a significant chunk of people being worse off and that something should be done about it.

EDIT: I think the revolutionary aspect of Marx's original philosophy is something that is overstressed not only by opponents wishing to denigrate socialism, but by left-wing nutjobs who wish to justify their desire for violence, in both cases missing the historical context in which Marx uttered those words. You have to remember, at the time Marx came up with the Communist Manifesto, the majority of Europe was either an absolute monarchy or, at best, ran democracies that heavily weighted in favour of votes by landed gentry (hell up until 1948, property owners effectively got two votes in the UK). At the time, it would have been inconceivable that a government would move towards helping those who are living on the bottom rung of society as they didn't depend on the working class to remain in power. Therefore, to Marx, revolution would have been the only option. 24 years after publishing the Communist Manifesto, Marx admitted that in developed countries "labour may attain its goal by peaceful means", suggesting he had stood down from the idea that revolution was necessary.

The above quote is from https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/3erji9/is_corbyn_a_marxist/


Whatever people want to call him, he is one of the few standing against the vileness of the Conservatives and their hatred for the poor, sick and disabled.   I wish there were more like him.

Youmay believe implicitly in your source; Iam reminded of Mandy Rice-Davies' famous observation "...well, they would say that, wouldn't they."

Youmay wish that there were more like Corbyn; I, by God, can think of nothing worse.

I may, or may not, be "a throwback to feudal times" - if that includes having served my Queen and country to the best of my ability, paid my taxes, supported - hopefully with generosity - a variety of good causes and worked hard to provide for myself and my family, then I'll cheerfully hold my hand up to old fashioned and even feudal values; snide comments about my character do not make any great impact on me.

And I most certainly don't hold a brief for anypolitical party, and I am most certainly not a party activist, so I'm not going to leap to the defence of the Tories - except to say that when it comes to "vileness" I have seen it in equal measure from the Labour Party: Greed, corruption, criminality, self-service, nepotism, hypocrisy, paedophilia...you name it. Everything that the Left of British politics throws at the Right can be returned...usually with interest.

It's why I have traditionally voted for my constituency candidate and not for the colour of the rosette they wore. In recent years that has been Tories three times, Labour twice and old fashioned Liberals once.

Oh, and once for the Monster Raving Loony Party...but that was when all three major parties managed to produce complete and utter Dickheads as their candidates and I felt obliged to waste my vote.



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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:36 pm

Sassy is a raving Labour Activist, bred into her from birth, nothing you say will penetrate that stubborn mindset.
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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:39 pm

I think she's quite informative. She is well read, and keeps up on things.

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Re: Donald Trump Vent Thread

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:43 pm

She has copies of "Marx" all over the place Laughing
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