Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

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Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly on Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:37 am

Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) on Wednesday called for Attorney General Jeff Sessions to resign after reporters that he spoke with Russian ambassador Sergery Kislyak twice during the 2016 presidential campaign, despite testifying under oath that he did not have communications with the Russians.

“When Senator Sessions testified under oath that ‘I did not have communications with the Russians,’ his statement was demonstrably false, yet he let it stand for weeks,” Cummings said in a statement. “He continued to let it stand even as he watched the President tell the entire nation he didn’t know anything about anyone advising his campaign talking to the Russians.”

House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) also called for Sessions’ resignation, releasing a statement insisting Attorney General “Sessions is not fit to serve as the top law enforcement officer of our country.”

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA), who Wednesday revealed that the House Intelligence Committee will officially investigate the Trump campaign’s contact with Russian officials, said it’s “essential” that Session recuse himself from any investigation into the president’s ties to the Kremlin.

“This is not even a close call: it is a must,” Schiff wrote in a statement.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/top-democrats-call-for-sessions-resignation-after-bombshell-report-he-lied-about-russian-contacts/


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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Original Quill on Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:32 pm

Republicans lie...it's what they do, and they don't even see anything wrong with it.  They even suppose, unjustifiably, that Democrats lie...even though that is only their hope.  Democrats have no need to lie.

The Russian nation is run by what is descriptively called the Russian Mafia.  The Russian Mafia was formed by what were originally known as KGB agents.  If that seems far-fetched, ask yourself who was the former head of the KGB, and who is president of Russia today.

Now an element of the US has overtaken the Republican Party, and aligned with the Russian Mafia.  What do you expect.  Crooks lie...it's what they do.  We must expect nothing but corruption and dishonesty by an enterprise governing the US...and headed by the Russian Mafia.

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly on Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:Republicans lie...it's what they do, and they don't even see anything wrong with it.  They even suppose, unjustifiably, that Democrats lie...even though that is only their hope.  Democrats have no need to lie.

The Russian nation is run by what is descriptively called the Russian Mafia.  The Russian Mafia was formed by what were originally known as KGB agents.  If that seems far-fetched, ask yourself who was the former head of the KGB, and who is president of Russia today.

Now an element of the US has overtaken the Republican Party, and aligned with the Russian Mafia.  What do you expect.  Crooks lie...it's what they do.  We must expect nothing but corruption and dishonesty by an enterprise governing the US...and headed by the Russian Mafia.

That's why the flag's flying upside-down on NewsFix Sad

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:05 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Republicans lie...it's what they do, and they don't even see anything wrong with it.  They even suppose, unjustifiably, that Democrats lie...even though that is only their hope.  Democrats have no need to lie.

The Russian nation is run by what is descriptively called the Russian Mafia.  The Russian Mafia was formed by what were originally known as KGB agents.  If that seems far-fetched, ask yourself who was the former head of the KGB, and who is president of Russia today.

Now an element of the US has overtaken the Republican Party, and aligned with the Russian Mafia.  What do you expect.  Crooks lie...it's what they do.  We must expect nothing but corruption and dishonesty by an enterprise governing the US...and headed by the Russian Mafia.

That's why the flag's flying upside-down on NewsFix Sad

Ben, politicians lie.,,,it's what, realistically, we expect of them. Not for nothing do we have an old saying here: Q: How do you know when a politician is lying? A: When his mouth is open.
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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Original Quill on Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:22 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

That's why the flag's flying upside-down on NewsFix Sad

Ben, politicians lie.,,,it's what, realistically, we expect of them. Not for nothing do we have an old saying here: Q: How do you know when a politician is lying? A: When his mouth is open.

That's the conservative line.  It's a platitude fabricated to cover-up the fact that conservatives lie.  Oh, everyone does it...don't look over here, look over there!  You can almost feel the intent.

Analyze the situation: Conservatives like Republicans are not just a different brand of politics, but a different breed of politics.  They differ not just in their approach or beliefs, but in what they intend to accomplish by engaging in politics.  An account holder enters a bank to make a deposit; a bank robber has an altogether different reason for entering a bank. The bank robber is a different breed.  You can't just glibly say, they all want to rob the place.

While Liberals and Progressives represent the general interest, conservatives and Republicans represent special interests.  The model underlying the liberal/progressive perspective is a fair and equal exchange for everyone.  The model underlying the conservative perspective is that of a clever thief out to steal the other man's purse.  Thus, the liberal/progressive thinks in ways that benefit everyone; while the conservative thinks in ways that applaud trickery and deceit.  These are the themes, you will see, that continually percolate up from each side: fairness vs. trickery and deceit.

Trickery and deceit inevitably involve deception (indeed, deceit and deception are the same word).  Thus it is fairer to think of lying as a part of the conservative model, and the allegation they all do it... as a conservative cover-up of the truth.

The fact is, they don't all do it.  The liberal/progressive model has nothing to gain by lying.  He's not trying to hide anything.

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Ben, politicians lie.,,,it's what, realistically, we expect of them. Not for nothing do we have an old saying here: Q: How do you know when a politician is lying? A: When his mouth is open.

That's the conservative line.  It's a platitude fabricated to cover-up the fact that conservatives lie.  Oh, everyone does it...don't look over here, look over there!  You can almost feel the intent.

Analyze the situation: Conservatives like Republicans are not just a different brand of politics, but a different breed of politics.  They differ not just in their approach or beliefs, but in what they intend to accomplish by engaging in politics.  An account holder enters a bank to make a deposit; a bank robber has an altogether different reason for entering a bank.  The bank robber is a different breed.  You can't just glibly say, they all want to rob the place.

While Liberals and Progressives represent the general interest, conservatives and Republicans represent special interests.  The model underlying the liberal/progressive perspective is a fair and equal exchange for everyone.  The model underlying the conservative perspective is that of a clever thief out to steal the other man's purse.  Thus, the liberal/progressive thinks in ways that benefit everyone; while the conservative thinks in ways that applaud trickery and deceit.  These are the themes, you will see, that continually percolate up from each side: fairness vs. trickery and deceit.

Trickery and deceit inevitably involve deception (indeed, deceit and deception are the same word).  Thus it is fairer to think of lying as a part of the conservative model, and the allegation they all do it... as a conservative cover-up of the truth.

The fact is, they don't all do it.  The liberal/progressive model has nothing to gain by lying.  He's not trying to hide anything.

One of the biggest and most damaging of lies in recent times was the one told to the United Kingdom Parliament and people by Tony Blair, Prime Minster. The result was that we were dragged into an illegal war - his own Attorney General's opinion was that the Iraq invasion was illegal...until he was leaned on and forced to, er, re-consider, by Blair's "sofa cabinet" and the Machiavellian spin doctors Mandelson and and Campbell.

Far from being conservatives, or even Conservatives with a capital "C", they were Labour. Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

Labour politicians, including many with impeccable Left Wing backgrounds, were prominent  among those who lied, cheated, defrauded and thieved during the major UK Parliament expenses scandal. Four of them, including a Minister,  were jailed, and a fifth got off because "she was ill." They were Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

I could go on and on.......

Socialism is rotten to the core with mendacity and self-interest. Just like the Conservatives.

It may well be different in the USA, but somehow, I doubt it. The Democrat Bill Clinton's name springs immediately to mind: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Original Quill on Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:15 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's the conservative line.  It's a platitude fabricated to cover-up the fact that conservatives lie.  Oh, everyone does it...don't look over here, look over there!  You can almost feel the intent.

Analyze the situation: Conservatives like Republicans are not just a different brand of politics, but a different breed of politics.  They differ not just in their approach or beliefs, but in what they intend to accomplish by engaging in politics.  An account holder enters a bank to make a deposit; a bank robber has an altogether different reason for entering a bank.  The bank robber is a different breed.  You can't just glibly say, they all want to rob the place.

While Liberals and Progressives represent the general interest, conservatives and Republicans represent special interests.  The model underlying the liberal/progressive perspective is a fair and equal exchange for everyone.  The model underlying the conservative perspective is that of a clever thief out to steal the other man's purse.  Thus, the liberal/progressive thinks in ways that benefit everyone; while the conservative thinks in ways that applaud trickery and deceit.  These are the themes, you will see, that continually percolate up from each side: fairness vs. trickery and deceit.

Trickery and deceit inevitably involve deception (indeed, deceit and deception are the same word).  Thus it is fairer to think of lying as a part of the conservative model, and the allegation they all do it... as a conservative cover-up of the truth.

The fact is, they don't all do it.  The liberal/progressive model has nothing to gain by lying.  He's not trying to hide anything.

One of the biggest and most damaging of lies in recent times was the one told to the United Kingdom Parliament and people by Tony Blair, Prime Minster. The result was that we were dragged into an illegal war - his own Attorney General's opinion was that the Iraq invasion was illegal...until he was leaned on and forced to, er, re-consider, by Blair's "sofa cabinet" and the Machiavellian spin doctors Mandelson and and Campbell.

Far from being conservatives, or even Conservatives with a capital "C", they were Labour. Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

Labour politicians, including many with impeccable Left Wing backgrounds, were prominent  among those who lied, cheated, defrauded and thieved during the major UK Parliament expenses scandal. Four of them, including a Minister,  were jailed, and a fifth got off because "she was ill." They were Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

I could go on and on.......

Socialism is rotten to the core with mendacity and self-interest. Just like the Conservatives.

It may well be different in the USA, but somehow, I doubt it.


But analyze the situation.  It's a case in point.  Blair was acting as the agent of a conservative US administration.  Everything will be bent in the direction of the man on top.

What we are talking about here is motive. You are taking one of the greatest proofs that conservatives lie, and failing to recognize the crucial about-face of Blair.

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:00 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Ben, politicians lie.,,,it's what, realistically, we expect of them. Not for nothing do we have an old saying here: Q: How do you know when a politician is lying? A: When his mouth is open.

That's the conservative line.  It's a platitude fabricated to cover-up the fact that conservatives lie.  Oh, everyone does it...don't look over here, look over there!  You can almost feel the intent.

Analyze the situation: Conservatives like Republicans are not just a different brand of politics, but a different breed of politics.  They differ not just in their approach or beliefs, but in what they intend to accomplish by engaging in politics.  An account holder enters a bank to make a deposit; a bank robber has an altogether different reason for entering a bank.  The bank robber is a different breed.  You can't just glibly say, they all want to rob the place.

While Liberals and Progressives represent the general interest, conservatives and Republicans represent special interests.  The model underlying the liberal/progressive perspective is a fair and equal exchange for everyone.  The model underlying the conservative perspective is that of a clever thief out to steal the other man's purse.  Thus, the liberal/progressive thinks in ways that benefit everyone; while the conservative thinks in ways that applaud trickery and deceit.  These are the themes, you will see, that continually percolate up from each side: fairness vs. trickery and deceit.

Trickery and deceit inevitably involve deception (indeed, deceit and deception are the same word).  Thus it is fairer to think of lying as a part of the conservative model, and the allegation they all do it... as a conservative cover-up of the truth.

The fact is, they don't all do it.  The liberal/progressive model has nothing to gain by lying.  He's not trying to hide anything.

One of the biggest and most damaging of lies in recent times was the one told to the United Kingdom Parliament and people by Tony Blair, Prime Minster. The result was that we were dragged into an illegal war - his own Attorney General's opinion was that the Iraq invasion was illegal...until he was leaned on and forced to, er, re-consider, by Blair's "sofa cabinet" and the Machiavellian spin doctors Mandelson and and Campbell.

Far from being conservatives, or even Conservatives with a capital "C", they were Labour. Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

Labour politicians, including many with impeccable Left Wing backgrounds, were prominent  among those who lied, cheated, defrauded and thieved during the major UK Parliament expenses scandal. Four of them, including a Minister,  were jailed, and a fifth got off because "she was ill." They were Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

I could go on and on.......

Socialism is rotten to the core with mendacity and self-interest. Just like the Conservatives.

It may well be different in the USA, but somehow, I doubt it. The Democrat Bill Clinton's name springs immediately to mind: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

the Irony being that Fred doesn't think his nation is a Vassal state
it mattered not which side was in power, refusal would have held consequences

Accept facts, you where a vassal even back then, EU was the UK trying to get out from under the US boot by replacing it with a EU one that you'd at least have some say in, but now the UK has the US boot firmly on it's neck (buy the choice of the Brexiters)

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:16 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Republicans lie...it's what they do, and they don't even see anything wrong with it.  They even suppose, unjustifiably, that Democrats lie...even though that is only their hope.  Democrats have no need to lie.

The Russian nation is run by what is descriptively called the Russian Mafia.  The Russian Mafia was formed by what were originally known as KGB agents.  If that seems far-fetched, ask yourself who was the former head of the KGB, and who is president of Russia today.

Now an element of the US has overtaken the Republican Party, and aligned with the Russian Mafia.  What do you expect.  Crooks lie...it's what they do.  We must expect nothing but corruption and dishonesty by an enterprise governing the US...and headed by the Russian Mafia.

That's why the flag's flying upside-down on NewsFix Sad

Ben, politicians lie.,,,it's what, realistically, we expect of them. Not for nothing do we have an old saying here: Q: How do you know when a politician is lying? A: When his mouth is open.

This isn't just about lying, Fred! It's about the sovereignty of my country!

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:32 pm

But mendacity is the way it's being accomplished.  It would be more honest if the Russians effected a Red Dawn take-over.  But they used guile and subterfuge instead.

Let's lay out the theory of the case: I think the Russians got Trump caught up in a Russian carrot & stick scheme.  First the carrot: Trump was offered a 19.5% of Rosneft Oil, Russia's state owned company, if he would run for president and lift the sanctions on oil Obama had imposed on Russian exports as a result of the invasion of Ukraine.  Rex Tillerson is the former CEO of Exxon-Mobile, which had (prior to sanctions) entered into a contract with Russia to pump and export 77% of the oil; without any prior experience in government, Rex Tillerson has been appointed US Secretary of State.

Then the stick: Trump in 2015 held his Ms. Universe contest in Moscow.  He stayed in the presidential suite of the Moscow Ritz Carlton Hotel.  Off hours he hired Russian prostitutes to give him a golden shower (urinate on him), which is a fetish engaged in by those who like such stuff.  Unknown to Trump, the presidential suite had been wired for filming and sound by the FSB (replacement agency of the KGB).  Putin now has that clip and is using it to blackmail Trump into going through with the lifting of sanctions. Putin's need for the added negative reinforcement is the fear that when Trump learns how many laws he is breaking, he might be tempted to back out.

So, the long and the short of it is that Trump is being offered a lucrative reward, and yet being pushed by blackmail, to run the United States according to the dictates of Russian agents.  This is a violation of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution, and several statutes, including the Espionage Act.  The fact that the Russians hacked and aided the Republican cause in the 2016 election is merely a side-pocket of the theory.

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by nicko on Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:49 pm

Can you, or anyone else prove that? or is it all talk?
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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Angry Andy on Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:02 pm

nicko wrote:Can you, or anyone else prove that? or is it all talk?
Will you admit you are wrong after he is found guilty after his impeachment.

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Original Quill on Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:23 pm

nicko wrote:Can you, or anyone else prove that? or is it all talk?

OK, nicko.  Fair question.  Notice I started by saying it is a working theory.  And I carefully phrased it as 'my belief'.  An attorney starts out by developing a theory of the case...pulling together all known facts, like dots, and then connecting them to get the best picture.  A theory of the case merely tells the attorney where to look and questions to ask.  I've done my job; now you go look for it.

As confirmation, look for secondary dots.  We already knew Trump was hard pressed for money after his casinos went south; that oil deal would have him salivating.  So, look at how many contacts the Trump organization has had with the Russian Ambassador (one commentator quipped, He's like Forrest Gump; he shows up everywhere!)  

Look at the firing of Mike Flynn, for conversing with the Ambassador over the sanctions (Trump is on record as saying the only thing he did wrong was lie to the Vice President).  Look how easily won was the recusal of Attorney-General Jefferson Sessions (although in hindsight, he should have recused himself on appointment).  Is he ducking out of the line-of-fire of the FBI?

Why does Trump have all of these people in his campaign with ties to the Russian oil industry?  Carter Page?  Paul Manafort?  Carter Page, in particular, used to be a banker in Moscow.  Banker...and he's appointed as a foreign policy adviser?  And he was hired to speak at a Russian university...who wants an English speaking speaker to speak at a Russian university?  You just know that was a pay-off for something or other.

And--most significantly--look at how many people are declining impressive or lucrative, high level appointments that would otherwise be snatched up...perhaps they know the plot from inside, and don't want to be arrested or have any association with this administration. Russia is a black hole, and people don't want to be sucked in.

Finally, why won’t Trump disclose his tax returns?  You know that if he falsified income (particularly of that magnitude) on his tax returns, he would go to prison.  So, those returns, I suspect, say something about his income from Russian oil…or ownership of a portion of the state oil company.

All I'm doing is showing you where to look.  I give you a road map.  I don't claim it's 100% of the picture, but if it is only 50% true, I give you an espionage case of epic proportions...one that will change the history books forever.  Remember, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were put to death for less.

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:44 pm

Palmer Report wrote:Dmitry Rybolovlev, who keeps flying in to meet Donald Trump, owns Russian money laundering bank
By Bill Palmer | February 28, 2017

Over the past weeks, Palmer Report has been reporting on the mysterious round-the-world gallivanting of Russian billionaire Dmitry Rybolovlev, who spends most of his time at his home in Monaco but has a habit of flying into whatever city Donald Trump happens to be visiting at the time. And thanks to an exposed multibillion dollar money laundering scheme on the part of a bank that’s closely tied financially to both Rybolovlev and Trump, we think we know why.

As we’ve been documenting this month, whenever Donald Trump has left the White House and ventured anywhere, Dmitry Rybolovlev (aka the “Russian King of Fertilizer”) has tended to show up in the same city. It happened during Trump’s victory tour in Concord, North Carolina, a place Rybolovlev had no legitimate reason to be. It happened again when Trump vacationed in West Palm Beach, even though that required Rybolovlev to fly all the way in from Switzerland. That was also the time that Trump deposited reporters in a semi-submerged basement of his resort with black plastic covering the the windows.

That only leaves two possibilities. One is that Trump and Rybolovlev just happen to have a remarkably coincidental travel schedule, and that while Rybolovlev was in West Palm Beach, Trump went out of his way to make sure the press couldn’t see what was going on at his resort for no real reason. The other is that Trump and Rybolovlev have been meeting up whenever Trump ventures away from the White House. The latter possibility has long been bolstered by the fact that Trump sold Rybolovlev a mansion a few years ago that neither of them lived in nor cared about, suggesting the sale was mere cover for shifting money from Russia to Trump. And that theory just got bolstered significantly, thanks to a new breakthrough.

Earlier this month we brought you the story of Deutsche Bank in Germany getting busted for laundering more than ten billion dollars out of Russia and into places like New York. This stood out because Deutsche has also loaned more than a billion dollars to Donald Trump, who just happens to be based out of New York, even at a time when the bank was struggling and Trump was viewed as a poor loan risk by every other bank out there.

It turns out Deutsche was funneling that money through Bank of Cyprus. Guess who owns a 9.9% share in Bank of Cyprus? Dmitry Rybolovlev. So we can now draw a direct line of more than a billion dollars flowing from Russia, through Rybolovlev, to Donald Trump.

We can’t yet prove that the money Russia laundered through Deutsche and Cyprus was the same exact money that Deutsche then loaned to Trump. But when we find that proof, it’ll be the smoking gun proving Russia has been financing Trump all along. And it explains why Dmitry Rybolovlev keeps flying halfway around the world to meet with Donald Trump whenever he escapes the White House – he appears to be the handler for Trump’s Russian finances. Contribute to Palmer Report

https://www.palmerreport.com/news/dmitry-rybolovlev-who-keeps-flying-in-to-meet-donald-trump-owns-russian-money-laundering-bank/1692/

Another piece falls into place.  This is allegedly Putin's bag-man.  Whenever a pay-off needs to be made, Putin sends Dmitry Rybolovlev to do it.  Several of his doings have been reported on the Rachael Maddow Show.  He runs the Bank of Cyprus, reported to be a notorious money laundering operation.

Dmitry Rybolovlev first came to notice when he bought, from Donald Trump, the mansion at 515 N. County Rd., Palm Beach.  Trump bought the estate at auction for about $41 million, renovated it, and then sold it in 2008 to Rybolovlev for (according to Trump) $100 million.  Neither man actually lived in the house, although Trump has reportedly been there. Now, $60-million for renovations...more than double the value?? Largest home sale in the USA...ever.  Seamless passage of money, eh?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article135243694.html

Find out all about it when Trump releases his tax returns.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Re: Leading Democrats call for Attorney General Sessions' resignation after learning he lied about Russian ties

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:19 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's the conservative line.  It's a platitude fabricated to cover-up the fact that conservatives lie.  Oh, everyone does it...don't look over here, look over there!  You can almost feel the intent.

Analyze the situation: Conservatives like Republicans are not just a different brand of politics, but a different breed of politics.  They differ not just in their approach or beliefs, but in what they intend to accomplish by engaging in politics.  An account holder enters a bank to make a deposit; a bank robber has an altogether different reason for entering a bank.  The bank robber is a different breed.  You can't just glibly say, they all want to rob the place.

While Liberals and Progressives represent the general interest, conservatives and Republicans represent special interests.  The model underlying the liberal/progressive perspective is a fair and equal exchange for everyone.  The model underlying the conservative perspective is that of a clever thief out to steal the other man's purse.  Thus, the liberal/progressive thinks in ways that benefit everyone; while the conservative thinks in ways that applaud trickery and deceit.  These are the themes, you will see, that continually percolate up from each side: fairness vs. trickery and deceit.

Trickery and deceit inevitably involve deception (indeed, deceit and deception are the same word).  Thus it is fairer to think of lying as a part of the conservative model, and the allegation they all do it... as a conservative cover-up of the truth.

The fact is, they don't all do it.  The liberal/progressive model has nothing to gain by lying.  He's not trying to hide anything.

One of the biggest and most damaging of lies in recent times was the one told to the United Kingdom Parliament and people by Tony Blair, Prime Minster. The result was that we were dragged into an illegal war - his own Attorney General's opinion was that the Iraq invasion was illegal...until he was leaned on and forced to, er, re-consider, by Blair's "sofa cabinet" and the Machiavellian spin doctors Mandelson and and Campbell.

Far from being conservatives, or even Conservatives with a capital "C", they were Labour. Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

Labour politicians, including many with impeccable Left Wing backgrounds, were prominent  among those who lied, cheated, defrauded and thieved during the major UK Parliament expenses scandal. Four of them, including a Minister,  were jailed, and a fifth got off because "she was ill." They were Socialists. Left Wing. So-called Liberal Progressives.

I could go on and on.......

Socialism is rotten to the core with mendacity and self-interest. Just like the Conservatives.

It may well be different in the USA, but somehow, I doubt it. The Democrat Bill Clinton's name springs immediately to mind: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Laughing

Only in your dreams,  Fred..
Keep telling yourself that tory nonsense..


Tony Blair is not -- and never was, in any form --  a true socialist, liberal/progressive or "leftie".

He was a right-of-centre lawyer and politician, who along with his right-wing faction "New Labour" cronies, hijacked the British Labour Party with their "Third Way" policies..

A true "Wolf in sheep's clothing", in other words...          

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