How right-wingers shut down debate

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How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

MARLM-PSSSS is my acronym for the debate-ending names liberals are called by conservatives.

If you disagree with the right, you are one or all of the following -- a Muslim apologist, regressive, leftist, multiculturalist, pedophile supporter, socialist, SJW, snowflake.


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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:02 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:You can't just lump everybody together. I've been critical of the ultra-conservative wing of Islam since the Taleban destroyed those Buddha mountain carvings in the late 90s.

But all anybody seems to do is equate my defense of the basic human rights of Muslims with support of the most far-right extremist Islamic beliefs.

Sorry, but I refuse to descend into the world of stupid talk where everyone from the same ill-defined group must believe the same things. Every single individual has a different take on the world, regardless of where they're from or what they were raised to believe.

Sorry but how are you defending human and civil rights for Muslims?
Nobody is saying all have the same beliefs, far from it, this is about Islamic beliefs
For example as seen above, do you condemn the forced oppression of Muslim women to cover up?
Have you defended Muslim School children refusing to shake the hands of their female teachers?
Are you critical of the schools of thought in Islam on homosexuality?
Women's Rights?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:27 pm

I have always stood up for the human rights of Muslims. We had a wave of hate crime after the 9/11 attacks, people being intimidated, hurt and killed who love this country and had nothing to do with the attacks.

I don't support oppression of any kind. I do, however, allow that there are faithful Muslim women who believe that they should cover up, and if that's how they want to live their lives, I wouldn't get in the way. If not -- I wouldn't get in the way of that either.

You should not be forced to shake hands any more so than you should be forced to cover up. It's not a life-or-death thing.

I am critical of Islamic strains and any other faith group's offshoots when they deny equal rights to gays and/or women. You know me -- I believe all religions are false and that everyone should have the same opportunities in life. And that those who can't seize upon those opportunities as well as others should at least be afforded a life of dignity.

And yet, I remain a fire-breathing liberal lefty who will not let my beliefs be defined by my critics.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:36 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I have always stood up for the human rights of Muslims. We had a wave of hate crime after the 9/11 attacks, people being intimidated, hurt and killed who love this country and had nothing to do with the attacks.

I don't support oppression of any kind. I do, however, allow that there are faithful Muslim women who believe that they should cover up, and if that's how they want to live their lives, I wouldn't get in the way. If it's not -- I wouldn't get in the way of that either.

You should not be forced to shake hands any more so than you should be forced to cover up. It's not a life-or-death thing.

I am critical of Islamic strains and any other faith group's offshoots when they deny equal rights to gays and/or women. You know me -- I believe all religions are false and that everyone should have the same opportunities in life. And that those who can't seize upon those opportunities as well as others should at least be afforded a life of dignity.

And yet, I remain a fire-breathing liberal lefty who will not let my beliefs be defined by my critics.


Where have you stood up for the rights of Muslims in Muslim majority countries?

Where have you stood up for the rights of Muslims in your own country, when they are through a fear of ostracization, forced to wear the veil or Hijab?

So you don't want to be critical of a belief. You are happy to stand by why people hold a belief that is born from fear, that if they do not wear they are blamed for the sexual desires of men and will suffer in an imaginary hell? 

So you are defending inequality where Muslim boys are taught its haram to touch a female, even though there is nothing in the Quran that teaches this. This is where the inequality starts. That women are deemed inferior to men, and you are happy not to challenge this. That by touching women its unclean to do so, thus again degrading women.

There is nothing Liberal about your views above, because you fear to challenge poor beliefs if the person is Muslim (not Christian). Thinking wrongly, that by doing makes you prejudice against Muslims. It does not. We did not change poor beliefs in the West by refusing to not challenge them and be critical of them. No belief is free from ridicule or criticism and its this kind of belief to remain silent, that sees countless Muslim women oppressed.

I am glad you defend Muslims, as I would from any hate because of 9/11, which I have already spoke of, but you refuse to challenge or be critical of poor beliefs.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:41 pm

No, you're wrong, Thorin and we've been through this before. I'm not engaging this time around -- fool me 15 times, shame on me Smile

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:44 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:No, you're wrong, Thorin and we've been through this before. I'm not engaging this time around -- fool me 15 times, shame on me Smile


You engaged in this Ben and I am rightly being critical of some of your views here.
I am glad though this has not made you Ultra conservative, as someone claimed this is what makes people become this way apparently.   Laughing

Sorry but you do have a double standard on this Ben

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by nicko on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:47 pm

So, Ben is only critical of Muslims when they destroy a few Buddha carvings. He doesn't care about the Beheadings, the Rapes.the Torture of prisoners ect, he only feels a little concern when they destroy carvings !
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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:49 pm

nicko wrote:So, Ben is only critical of Muslims when they destroy a few Buddha carvings.  He doesn't care about the Beheadings,  the Rapes.the Torture of prisoners ect,   he only feels a little concern when they destroy carvings !

I care about all of that, Nicko. I wish you (and others) would realize that about me.

I also care about decent Muslims, who are just living their lives and not hurting anybody, who get caught up in and harmed by the anti-Muslim feelings.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:50 pm

Can we get past the stupid notion that because you don't comment on every single thing, it means you don't care about it? That's basically strawmanning.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:53 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote:So, Ben is only critical of Muslims when they destroy a few Buddha carvings.  He doesn't care about the Beheadings,  the Rapes.the Torture of prisoners ect,   he only feels a little concern when they destroy carvings !

I care about all of that, Nicko. I wish you (and others) would realize that about me.

I also care about decent Muslims, who are just living their lives and not hurting anybody, who get caught up in and harmed by the anti-Muslim feelings.


But all of us care about Muslims and people in general. That does not mean you should not be critical of bad beliefs.
Now lets change this to another belief
Republicanism.
Are you critical of Republicanism?
Yes
Very much so, so why not Islam?
Do you care about decent Republicans also?
Are they hurting anybody, who get caught up in and harmed by the anti-Republican feelings.


Last edited by Thorin on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:54 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Can we get past the stupid notion that because you don't comment on every single thing, it means you don't care about it? That's basically strawmanning.

That is gibberish.
Either you stand by the principles of Liberalism, by defending equality for example, or you do not.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:55 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:No, you're wrong, Thorin and we've been through this before. I'm not engaging this time around -- fool me 15 times, shame on me Smile


You engaged in this Ben and I am rightly being critical of some of your views here.
I am glad though this has not made you Ultra conservative, as someone claimed this is what makes people become this way apparently.   Laughing

Sorry but you do have a double standard on this Ben

You're misrepresenting my view and what I have said, and I would thank you to A) give me a little benefit of the doubt and B) stop misrepresenting me.

I don't support oppression. Period. If you can name an example of legitimate oppression, I will oppose it, I promise you.

There are many adult women, for example -- Muslim, Christian, whatever -- who do things for reasons you and I might deem oppressive but which they have interpreted as being something that brings them closer to a deity that they love and worship. Maybe you're egotistical enough to try to jump into the middle of that -- I choose to let people do what they will as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:57 pm

To put it a bit more simply, I draw a line of distinction between "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to show off my legs" and "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to learn to read."

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:59 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You engaged in this Ben and I am rightly being critical of some of your views here.
I am glad though this has not made you Ultra conservative, as someone claimed this is what makes people become this way apparently.   Laughing

Sorry but you do have a double standard on this Ben

You're misrepresenting my view and what I have said, and I would thank you to A) give me a little benefit of the doubt and B) stop misrepresenting me.

I don't support oppression. Period. If you can name an example of legitimate oppression, I will oppose it, I promise you.

There are many adult women, for example -- Muslim, Christian, whatever -- who do things for reasons you and I might deem oppressive but which they have interpreted as being something that brings them closer to a deity that they love and worship. Maybe you're egotistical enough to try to jump into the middle of that -- I choose to let people do what they will as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

Please show me where I am misrepresenting your views?
Nobody is saying you support oppression, but you fail to condemn or speak out on these oppressions and have clearly here defended a poor belief that backs inequality. Where Muslim school children are taught to refuse to shake their female teachers hands.

Its up to people what they believe, but are you saying you should not speak out against such beliefs, when in fact it does oppress women and homosexuals, who are denied equal rights? By refusing to condemn, you end up failing those oppressed.

Again the west did not progress due to people like yourself failing to speak up against bad beliefs

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:To put it a bit more simply, I draw a line of distinction between "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to show off my legs" and "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to learn to read."

There is no distinction between the two.
The child is being taught its wrong to do something in each case, based off a myth

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

I care about all of that, Nicko. I wish you (and others) would realize that about me.

I also care about decent Muslims, who are just living their lives and not hurting anybody, who get caught up in and harmed by the anti-Muslim feelings.


But all of us care about Muslims and people in general. That does not mean you should not be critical of bad beliefs.
Now lets change this to another belief
Republicanism.
Are you critical of Republicanism?
Yes
Very much so, so why not Islam?
Do you care about decent Republicans also?
Are they hurting anybody, who get caught up in and harmed by the anti-Republican feelings.

Still waiting for an answer Ben

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:08 pm

Okay, it's 1 a.m. here and I'm not going to go into this much more. I'll just say that you can't pull the rug out from under people and expect everything to be fine. Change has to happen at a pace people can psychologically manage. So you focus on the violence first, then social inequality.

By the way, that's an effective strategy. What's not an effective strategy, as we should have learned since the Brexit and Trump votes, is telling people they're wrong and stupid. You do that enough and they go out and do something really stupid just to rub your face in it. It may not be ideologically pure, but it does less harm, and I'm all about doing less harm.

And now I'm closing my browser and going to bed, so you can reply if you like but I won't see it ... damn you ... Smile

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:12 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Okay, it's 1 a.m. here and I'm not going to go into this much more. I'll just say that you can't pull the rug out from under people and expect everything to be fine. Change has to happen at a pace people can psychologically manage. So you focus on the violence first, then social inequality.

By the way, that's an effective strategy. What's not an effective strategy, as we should have learned since the Brexit and Trump votes, is telling people they're wrong and stupid. You do that enough and they go out and do something really stupid just to rub your face in it. It may not be ideologically pure, but it does less harm, and I'm all about doing less harm.

And now I'm closing my browser and going to bed, so you can reply if you like but I won't see it ... damn you ... Smile

Yes change has to happen at pace Ben, of which I agree, but its not going to happen at all. If people refuse to speak out on bad beliefs, wrongly thinking it makes them anti-Muslim for example. You see you even do this above wrongly equating to say its wrong to speak out on women being oppressed. You are saying that is not an effective strategy?
Tell that to the women being oppressed.
We should be speaking about it as much as we can to show and highlight why something is wrong.
You conflate wrongly being critical of beliefs, with that of individuals.
You certainly do not apply this methodology when speaking out against Republicanism or Republicans themselves. So why do you hold Islam to a different standard than you do Republicanism?

Have a good sleep

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:27 am

This makes my point very well on the right to ridicule bad beliefs....  Laughing


When Dogma came out, church groups protested. Kevin Smith was so excited that his movie drew that much attention that he joined the protest. Nobody at the protest knew he was the director. The protest got picked up by the local news, and they interviewed one of the protestors, which happened to be Kevin Smith. This is Kevin telling the story, followed by the clip from the actual news report:





Read more at http://www.sunnyskyz.com/happy-videos/5748/Kevin-Smith-Joined-The-Protest-Of-His-Own-Movie-And-Got-Interviewed-By-The-Local-News#kdM0wiWQDbXfOFBJ.99

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:06 am

cheers

Kevin Smith is my kind of protestor !!!

Should be more of those kinds of protests..

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:40 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Any "insults" that are thrown at lefties are nothing compared to the insults that are thrown by lefties. Calling someone a nazi is much worse than calling someone a "multiculturalist" - don't you think?

No. Calling someone a multiculturalist implies they are just as big a part of a potential hurt to the planet as calling someone a Nazi is, on the basis of the meaning behind the insult.

I have been told that my belief in multiculturalism will destroy Western civilization. Don't you think that affects me?
what do you mean by ,multiculturalism. do you mean lots of different cultures existing in ghettos and not mixing with any other as is very much the way ,multiculturalism has gone in europe. Or do you mean people embracing the ethos of the host country whilst retaining a connection with the past they left behind?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:45 am

Lurker wrote:The right wingers are more extreme than they ever have been, They are hate-empowered by the Nazi they elected President. They feel they can say or do anything now and get away with it. It's a liberal's duty to shut them down to save our country.
yes it is entirely that sort of thinking that ensured trump got elected, that brexit happened, that le pen is likely to be president of france and gert wilders PM in holland. So well done, you have helped bring into existence everything you fear the most.

liberals are the most illiberal people on the planet.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:49 am

Eilzel wrote:
Thorin wrote:

This is a concern. While some prominent Muslims do make it clear they do support all equal rights (like Maajid Nawaz and Mehdi Hasan) and I have gotten to know a few who have no issue with those groups- it is still a fact there is conflict between Islamic groups and the rights of women, gay people and those of other faiths.

It is also a problem, as this cartoon raises, when some liberals totally brush over the fact that this is a problem. Far more of a problem, in fact, than that of the Republicans. I think this should be brought into the open at every opportunity. I am totally in support of treating those of all faiths equally (while being allowed to mock their faiths too Razz). But we must be able to openly criticize views not fitting in with advanced social attitudes.
Lez, go and kiss your boyfriend in any of the gulf states or most of the islamic country's in the world and see how tolerant they are.
And as for being a woman in an islamic country, good luck there.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:51 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Calling someone a nazi implies that they would kill loads of people if they could - I think that's worse.

Of course it is - but it's the ultimate insult and that's why it is thrown about .
no it has been so abused and thrown around at anyone the left dont like that it really does not have the impact it once had.




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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:56 am

veya_victaous wrote:the issue is Islamophobs greatly increase the number of Muslims with said ultra conservative views. they do ridiculous things like say Aussie children cant wear headscarves because it some how oppresses women in Saudi Arabia. they project their crusade onto everyone, while failing to take into account the local issues that the Saudi(and many others) will point out should be fixed first.

Also IF As is the case with the vast majority of Whabbist they are literal Uneducated hillshepherds there are far greater issues with the validity of their opinions..
TO  equate a westerner that has had the privileges of western education and values with a 3rd world citizen with limited education and raised with non-secular religious values is a false comparison. On is the product of necessity dictated by the circumstances of their birth the other has actively CHOOSEN to be uneducated or the product of child abuse by individuals that have CHOOSEN to prevent the education of their children.
you say ultra conservative, most would say standard islamic views. the moderates are in the minority, not the majority.
maybe most Muslims do not subscribe directly to the actions of daesh, but most subscribe to the fundamental issue of islam dominating the world at some point.
the fact that those on the left rarely stand up against even the extremists rather shows their hypocrisy and stupidity. Being right on and in support of Muslims will not stop the radicals from hacking your head from your neck.



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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:01 am

Ben Reilly wrote:To put it a bit more simply, I draw a line of distinction between "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to show off my legs" and "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to learn to read."
there is a difference?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by eddie on Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:08 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:To put it a bit more simply, I draw a line of distinction between "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to show off my legs" and "Daddy told me God doesn't want me to learn to read."
there is a difference?

Erm, yes? I'll discourage my own daughter from wearing certain revealing things when she's older (I won't force her but I will try and dissuade and advise her) but I certainly won't ever be advising her to put a book down.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:29 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:the issue is Islamophobs greatly increase the number of Muslims with said ultra conservative views. they do ridiculous things like say Aussie children cant wear headscarves because it some how oppresses women in Saudi Arabia. they project their crusade onto everyone, while failing to take into account the local issues that the Saudi(and many others) will point out should be fixed first.

Also IF As is the case with the vast majority of Whabbist they are literal Uneducated hillshepherds there are far greater issues with the validity of their opinions..
TO  equate a westerner that has had the privileges of western education and values with a 3rd world citizen with limited education and raised with non-secular religious values is a false comparison. On is the product of necessity dictated by the circumstances of their birth the other has actively CHOOSEN to be uneducated or the product of child abuse by individuals that have CHOOSEN to prevent the education of their children.
you say ultra conservative, most would say standard islamic views. the moderates are in the minority, not the majority.
maybe most Muslims do not subscribe directly to the actions of daesh, but most subscribe to the fundamental issue of islam dominating the world at some point.
the fact that those on the left rarely stand up against even the extremists rather shows their hypocrisy and stupidity. Being right on and in support of Muslims will not stop the radicals from hacking your head from your neck.

Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:57 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
you say ultra conservative, most would say standard islamic views. the moderates are in the minority, not the majority.
maybe most Muslims do not subscribe directly to the actions of daesh, but most subscribe to the fundamental issue of islam dominating the world at some point.
the fact that those on the left rarely stand up against even the extremists rather shows their hypocrisy and stupidity. Being right on and in support of Muslims will not stop the radicals from hacking your head from your neck.

Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...


Arent there any Muslims in Turkey, fleakeeper...?

Doesn't Flap live in Turkey...!?


Also...


There is a lot of difference between a liberal and a 'progressive'...




https://youtu.be/nwK7VRkbGiU





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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...


Arent there any Muslims in Turkey, fleakeeper...?

Doesn't Flap live in Turkey...!?


Also...


There is a lot of difference between a liberal and a 'progressive'...




https://youtu.be/nwK7VRkbGiU





There is no difference between a liberal and a progressive

You are equating those who are illiberal and regressive.

You do understand the difference do you not Tommy?

Someone who is Liberal professes progressive attributes and stands for Liberal values

So please explain to me how any Liberal cannot be progressive and then show the difference?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:46 pm

The illiberal and regressive try to pass themselves off as liberal and progressive...


Watch the video for the explanation...


There are distinct differences...


And you can't be both a 'liberal' and a 'progressive' in the current definition of the terms... as they are opposites like 'sanity' and 'insanity'...


lol!

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The illiberal and regressive try to pass themselves off as liberal and progressive...


Watch the video for the explanation...


There are distinct differences...


And you can't be both a 'liberal' and a 'progressive' in the current definition of the terms... as they are opposites like 'sanity' and 'insanity'...


lol!


So you admit, there is no difference between Liberals and progressives then Tommy?

You just admitted that Illiberal's and regressive's try to pass themselves off as Liberal and progressive.

Thanks, that was easy to show how dumb your post was.

Laughing

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:57 pm

No... the video sets out the differences between liberals and 'progressives'...


Do try to keep up dodge...

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No... the video sets out the differences between liberals and 'progressives'...


Do try to keep up dodge...


Does it?
You admitted there is a difference between illiberal and liberals and regressive's and progressives.
Its why Pat condell is quite apt and making naive people believe his poor claims
So how can there be a difference between Liberals and progressives?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:04 pm

Liberals are one group... the illiberal regressives call themselves 'progressives' and pretend to be liberals...


All explained in the video... try watching it...

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Liberals are one group... the illiberal regressives call themselves 'progressives' and pretend to be liberals...


All explained in the video... try watching it...


They may call themselves progressives, but you just admitted they are not even Liberal Tommy.
You clearly stated that Illiberal's call themselves progressives.
So if they pretend to be Liberal, how can they be Liberal?
Thus how can there be a difference between Liberalism and progressiveness?
Like I said, there is none and you have just admitted there is none, by going off Illiberal's

Not doing very well tonight, are you?

Cool

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:14 pm

I've stated there are distinct differences...


These differences are explained very well in the video...


Your lack of understanding is your problem... not mine!


Nighty night!


lol!

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I've stated there are distinct differences...


These differences are explained very well in the video...


Your lack of understanding is your problem... not mine!


Nighty night!


lol!


Have you?

Seems you only actually backed my view mate

lol

Night then

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:41 am

Laughing

Tommy is a moron....

Tangled himself up in his own delusions.. Yet again.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:49 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Laughing

Tommy is a moron....

Tangled himself up in his own delusions..   Yet again.


It was very amusing to see him get tied up in knots.

Best own goal, I have seen in years.

Laughing

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:54 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...

Arent there any Muslims in Turkey, fleakeeper...?

Doesn't Flap live in Turkey...!?

Also...

There is a lot of difference between a liberal and a 'progressive'...


https://youtu.be/nwK7VRkbGiU


Laughing

Is that your father in that video,  Tommy  ???

He spouts a load of outright crap  --  you do yourself a grave disservice by using his lies as any sort of truth.   You still don't understand the proper meanings of words like "liberal, progressive, leftie, or socialist", do you ???

You really must get yourself a proper education.


As for the country with the largest proportion of Muslims --  that would br Indonesia,  with around 90% of its 220+ million population --  more than Pakistan, India, Turkey, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia.

And it still remains a secular country overall..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:52 am

eddie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
there is a difference?

Erm, yes? I'll discourage my own daughter from wearing certain revealing things when she's older (I won't force her but I will try and dissuade and advise her) but I certainly won't ever be advising her to put a book down.
so god tells you to stop your daughter wearing certain things?
did you not understand the point?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:54 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
you say ultra conservative, most would say standard islamic views. the moderates are in the minority, not the majority.
maybe most Muslims do not subscribe directly to the actions of daesh, but most subscribe to the fundamental issue of islam dominating the world at some point.
the fact that those on the left rarely stand up against even the extremists rather shows their hypocrisy and stupidity. Being right on and in support of Muslims will not stop the radicals from hacking your head from your neck.

Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...
one day you will learn to respond with about abuse, You dont understand islam and when you do perhaps anything you say may be taken seriously.

now
polly want a cracker

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:55 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...


Arent there any Muslims in Turkey, fleakeeper...?

Doesn't Flap live in Turkey...!?


Also...


There is a lot of difference between a liberal and a 'progressive'...




https://youtu.be/nwK7VRkbGiU




the thing is there are no liberals on this site, they are all illiberals

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:56 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Smile

MORE outright arrogant bullshit from the lying fascist turd DYKnose,  with his outright lies about what those "on the left" might be thinking and doing...

Once again demonstrating that he doesn't actually know what a genuine lefty/liberal/socialist  even is;  let alone could be thinking or doing..

All he is doing here is rehashing his usual crusading alt.right/BNP/EDL style insults, over and over again,  without adding anything new.  I wonder if Deano even knows where the largest Muslim populations are located ?  It's certainly not in his neighbourhood...
one day you will learn to respond with about abuse, You dont understand islam and when you do perhaps anything you say may be taken seriously.

now
polly want a cracker


And you do understand Islam?

Really?

Islam has many different schools of thought.

You then contradict being abusive again yourself.

Hilarious on both counts

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:56 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Laughing

Tommy is a moron....

Tangled himself up in his own delusions..   Yet again.
polly want a cracker

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:57 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Arent there any Muslims in Turkey, fleakeeper...?

Doesn't Flap live in Turkey...!?


Also...


There is a lot of difference between a liberal and a 'progressive'...




https://youtu.be/nwK7VRkbGiU




the thing is there are no liberals on this site, they are all illiberals


Care to back up your accusation?

In your own time, show where I am not Liberal in my views?

Or Eilzel?

Or Fred for example?
Fred maybe conservative, but it also holds and stands by Liberal values.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:58 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Arent there any Muslims in Turkey, fleakeeper...?

Doesn't Flap live in Turkey...!?

Also...

There is a lot of difference between a liberal and a 'progressive'...


https://youtu.be/nwK7VRkbGiU


Laughing

Is that your father in that video,  Tommy  ???

He spouts a load of outright crap  --  you do yourself a grave disservice by using his lies as any sort of truth.   You still don't understand the proper meanings of words like "liberal, progressive, leftie, or socialist", do you ???

You really must get yourself a proper education.


As for the country with the largest proportion of Muslims --  that would br Indonesia,  with around 90% of its 220+ million population --  more than Pakistan, India, Turkey, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia.

And it still remains a secular country overall..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
I wouldn;t cite indonesia as being a bastion of decency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Indonesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia

as to not having any insight into islam I live in a country that is 99.8% Muslim


Last edited by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:01 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Laughing

Is that your father in that video,  Tommy  ???

He spouts a load of outright crap  --  you do yourself a grave disservice by using his lies as any sort of truth.   You still don't understand the proper meanings of words like "liberal, progressive, leftie, or socialist", do you ???

You really must get yourself a proper education.


As for the country with the largest proportion of Muslims --  that would br Indonesia,  with around 90% of its 220+ million population --  more than Pakistan, India, Turkey, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia.

And it still remains a secular country overall..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
I wouldn;t cite indonesia as being a bastion of decency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Indonesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia



So clearly, you claim any nation that has terrorism, is not a bastion of decency then?
The vast majority of nations in the world then?

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:04 am

Thorin wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
I wouldn;t cite indonesia as being a bastion of decency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Indonesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia



So clearly, you claim any nation that has terrorism, is not a bastion of decency then?
The vast majority of nations in the world then?
I see no point in even giving that risible question a response. you clearly did not understand the point.

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Re: How right-wingers shut down debate

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:06 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So clearly, you claim any nation that has terrorism, is not a bastion of decency then?
The vast majority of nations in the world then?
I see no point in even giving that risible question a response. you clearly did not understand the point.


You made an idiotic point, which I easily refuted.

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