An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

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An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by eddie on Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's long, but a good read:



An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Jeremy Nix is a Citizen Journalist who writes for the The Huffington Post. I recently came across a blog post from him that I thought many of you would like to read. I need to make it clear that this article does not reflect the views of Educate Inspire Change but nonetheless I think it is well written and feel that many of you – both Trump supports and haters will be able to take something useful from.


Follow Jeremy Nix on Twitter: www.twitter.com/thejeremynix

I’m cool with you removing me from your friends list if you don’t like this post. You can even disown me if you like. But Donald Trump isn’t a good person, nor would he be a good president. I can understand a difference in politics. I can understand if you don’t like a government run by Democrats. I can understand if you don’t like certain ideologies, like Socialism. But I can’t understand why you would support someone as hateful, sexist, racist and ignorant as Donald Trump.

How do you support him so blindly? Ask yourself, are you a racist, sexist, hateful and ignorant person as well? I hear his supporters saying they like him because he tells the truth, because he’s so rich he can say whatever he feels like with no apologies. Just because Trump is saying these things doesn’t suddenly make them right. It’s not okay to discriminate against an entire religion based on a small percentage of its followers who have become terrorists by twisting the words of the religion to fit their crazy ideals. It’s not okay to marginalize an entire race of people, saying things like all the Mexicans are lazy, that they are all stealing our jobs and bringing drugs into our country.

White people also have bad apples. So does every race of people. We’re all human. Some humans are really bad people. Some are really good. And it doesn’t matter what color they are, it makes no difference whatsoever. Trump says he is just telling the truth. But whose truth? There are lazy people in every race and there are dangerous violent people in every race and every religion. Kicking all Muslims out of the country is not the answer, nor is it the acceptable behavior of a person in an extremely powerful position, like the President of the United States.

The Japanese Internment camps were wrong, Segregation was wrong, Slavery was wrong. We fought wars amongst ourselves to rise above racism and hatred. In WWII more than 60 million people died worldwide. Why? Because of twisted people who were whipping up the population into a frenzy and making ridiculous statements, killing innocent people simply because of their race or religion. The United States lost more than 400,000 lives fighting in that war, against the same ideas that Trump is pushing. The idea that certain religions are more dangerous than others and the idea that people should be judged based on the color of their skin rather than the content of their character.

“They always say it’s so important to make your voice heard, to get out and vote. But I’m not sure if it’s ever been more important than now.”

We’re still healing from the damage inflicted by the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Iraq and the War on Terror. And it isn’t just ISIS or Al-Qaeda. It’s our own people in this country killing their fellow countrymen over differences of opinion, like whether or not you believe abortion is okay or what kind of political ideology you support. And then there are just the plainly insane people who finally snap and go on shooting rampages for no discernible reason at all. They just went mad.


The kind of leadership Trump is displaying is irresponsible and dangerous. His virulent ideas are seeping into the brains of his supporters. Supporters who think it’s okay to say things like “light the mother@!$%#er on fire” while a protester is being dragged out of one of his rallies. Maybe the protester was wrong to be where he was at the time, but no matter what he did, there was no reason to set him on fire. In fact, there is NEVER a reason to set anyone on fire. Unless it’s because they are dead and they wish to be cremated.

Trump’s supporters are angry, and anger is infectious. I can tell you as a non-supporter of Trump I am just as angry. We need the kind of leader that seeks to bring us together, not tear us apart. Why do we have to fight against helping each other, against common sense, against a united Nation? The American Dream is a nightmare and we are feeding it, making it worse every day. Trump is a bully, a loud mouth, ignorant, sexist, racist, disgusting example of how horrible humans can potentially be.

He is the crazy person at your dinner table who won’t stop running his mouth. The only reason he is allowed to carry on with his ugly hateful rhetoric is because you have too much respect for Grandma to get into a fist fight in her home. He’s the guy you have to endure until he leaves, all the while hating every minute that you have to occupy the same space. Lucky for us, this isn’t Grandma’s house, so feel free to punch him in the mouth in the form of getting out and making your vote count.

They always say it’s so important to make your voice heard, to get out and vote. But I’m not sure if it’s ever been more important than now. Differences of political ideals are one thing, I can agree to disagree on many matters across a wide array of topics, but racism isn’t one of them, neither is hate, neither is the belittling of women or the judgment of others based on their appearance or their disability, or their sexual preference.

By supporting Trump do you think things will go back to the way they were? Back when gay people had to hide in fear, back when people of any other color than white had to worry about getting lynched, back when it was okay to openly hate? Do you think empowered women will suddenly quit their jobs and go back to the kitchen ? Because electing Trump won’t make any of that come true. We’re past that as a nation, or at least I thought we were.

“I can agree to disagree on many matters across a wide array of topics, but racism isn’t one of them, neither is hate, neither is the belittling of women…”

If you’re not a racist, bigoted, misogynistic jerk, then voting for Trump simply because you don’t like Democrats is wrong. If you are one of his supporters and you’re just a racist and you don’t care who knows it then vote for him, but know that the good people of America will not stand for it and he will never win a fair election. And please consider pursuing an education and work on your empathy toward your fellow human beings. Whatever led you to believe that racism is okay can be unlearned if you open your mind. I’m sorry that you were raised to believe that you deserve better treatment than the rest of the people on the planet that have different views than yours, worship different gods than you and have skin that isn’t white.

To all the people, of all the races and religions that Donald Trump stands against, to all the women that don’t meet his standards of beauty, to all the good Muslims, and Christians, Mormons and Catholics and Jewish, Italians, Irish and Asians, to the African-Americans and Native Americans, to anyone who has ever been persecuted, belittled, made to feel inferior or bullied based on ignorance like the kind that Trump is spewing, please, I implore you to get out and vote against him. Don’t let the progress of this great nation be halted. We’ve come too far.

In this country we FIGHT and DIE for freedom, for Truth and Justice. We fight for what’s right. And what Trump is doing and saying isn’t right. Some have attributed the following statement to Abraham Lincoln*:

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and cause me to tremble for safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic destroyed.”

And he couldn’t be more right. Trump IS the one percent, he IS working on your prejudices, and he WILL destroy the Republic if he is elected, make no doubt about it.

If you don’t believe me, just look at the level of crazy coming out of his own mouth:

“[I am] calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on” — Donald Trump. That’s religious discrimination.


“An ‘extremely credible source’ has called my office and told me that Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a fraud” — Donald Trump. That’s an outright lie.

“Arianna Huffington is unattractive, both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man – he made a good decision.” — Donald Trump. This is sexism, and just plain rude.

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of @!$%#.” – Donald Trump. This is misogyny at its finest.

“I will build a great wall — and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me — and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words.” – Donald Trump. The words of an arrogant hate monger.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best. They’re not sending you, they’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists… And some, I assume, are good people.” — Donald Trump. Racist.

“Our great African-American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore.” — Donald Trump. Racist.

“If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.” — Donald Trump. The words of an @!$%#.

“The beauty of me is that I’m very rich.” – Donald Trump. So Vain.

“It’s freezing and snowing in New York – we need global warming!” – Donald Trump. Ignorant.

“My fingers are long and beautiful, as, it has been well documented, are various other parts of my body.” – Donald Trump. Gross.

“I think the only difference between me and the other candidates is that I’m more honest and my women are beautiful.” – Donald Trump. Sexist. As if women are possessions rather than people. And also a lie. A lie about how honest he is.

How can you support this man?




*I am aware of the fact that snopes.com claims the Lincoln Capitalism Prophecy quote is false. It’s a quote that has been going around for more than a hundred years. The quote has also been attributed to a letter that Lincoln supposedly wrote to Col. William F. Elkins in 1864. Scholars have cited The Lincoln Encyclopedia: The Spoken and Written Words of A. Lincoln Arranged for Ready Reference by Archer H. Shaw. Snopes still claims the letter referred to in this encyclopedia is a fraud, forged by Emanuel Hertz in his book Abraham Lincoln: A New Portrait. So in the interest of full disclosure, these may or may not have been Lincoln’s words. Whether they were written by Hertz or Lincoln, they were still written and they still pertain to the point I was trying to make. Income inequality is a serious issue in this country, and Donald Trump is working on the prejudices of the people.



http://educateinspirechange.org/alternative-news/open-letter-friends-support-donald-trump/

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:23 am

nicko wrote:
What a prick you are wolfie you "shout you gob off in every post"

Why do you insist on  calling posters who disagree with you stupid insulting names?   you come across as a little boy who gets a thrill answering back the adults.   I think you should grow up a bit. you come across as a typical "Keyboard Warrior" !    Now have a go at me, and prove it !!

.
Rolling Eyes        You and Tommy are the classic "keyboard warriors",  nicko..

NOT me,  not Quill, not veya, not Ben..


Right there above, your using the kind of stupid insults that you constantly accuse others of.

You really should have your doctor check you med's, as you are becoming increasingly irrational by the day.


I don't use silly or wrong labels on people --  I simply 'call it as I see it'..

You make fascist, bullying or plain wrong-headed statements --  your opponents are allowed to call you out over that..

Tommy and Stormee and others have often made racist and xenophobic rants  on here--  and I simply called them what they are..    Nothing childish about that.

You, Ragg's, Nems or Syl cheer them on --  that makes you their "boosters and enablers"  --  no matter which way you try and spin your bullshit afterwards..


You want me to "take you on..",  you pathetic addled-brained fool  --  just show me where I have actually LIED about something you have written on here ?

You can whinge and moan and keep on shouting your bulldust, nicko  --    but how about backing up your idiotic fascist rants,with some genuine proof  !

Your tag-team can label me a "liar" as often as they like --  but they still haven't managed to back their own fallacious claims with any genuine evidence..        Suspect

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:51 am

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
You need to pay attention as well. Wolfman started on me, as he often does - along with him banging on about other members all the time. Do you expect them not to reply?

We're getting off-topic.  This isn't about Wolf.  

Laughing

Nicko entered this thread to attack me...
And possibly Andy and sassy if the chance arose, as well..

In his addled state, nicko then attacked eddie instead.

Ragg's subsequently parachuted in to rescue nicko, attempting to deflect the blame back onto me..

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:09 am

I've gone through the thread an NICKO started it plain as day, Wolf made a post that didn't mention anyone
Nicko then started Whining about it having a Green.... Completely Off topic... as typical of nicko's posts.

Raggs,
Stop Tag teaming other posters and making up lies about people starting it when they didn't.

Now the 2 of you STOP being trouble makers. I don't care how old and senile you are!!!

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:03 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
We're getting off-topic.  This isn't about Wolf.  

Laughing

Nicko entered this thread to attack me...
And possibly Andy and sassy if the chance arose, as well..

In his addled state, nicko then attacked eddie instead.

Ragg's subsequently parachuted in to rescue nicko, attempting to deflect the blame back onto me..

That's a lie.  I posted in response to you dragging me into your reply to nicko and accusing me of "arse licking".  You are to blame for starting on me.

You, Tommy, Ragg's,  Nems and company, and the late and unlamented Stormee, are far-and-away the worse offenders of such 'arse licking' back slapping on here

I haven't mentioned nicko in my replies to you.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Independent Thoughts on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:24 am

veya wrote:
Now the 2 of you STOP being trouble makers.

Eh?

I've been called a racist on this site... yet I'm not white, or against your white folk.  Yep... keep calling my minority skin racist. That's gonna help you.  Wink

All this time, you lefties thought I was white.  And that's because you're not down for the cause... your're down for the politics.  AND THAT'S why Trump won.  You Dems talk too much and do too little.

Please tell "us": What kind of trouble are we making?

OMG!  A non-white guy is not a Liberal!  Sound the alarm! That's some trouble.

Sorry, guys. I'm brown skinned. Deal with it.


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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:27 am

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:
veya wrote:
Now the 2 of you STOP being trouble makers.

Eh?

I've been called a racist on this site... yet I'm not white, or against your white folk.  Yep... keep calling my minority skin racist. That's gonna help you.  Wink

All this time, you lefties thought I was white.  And that's because you're not down for the cause... your're down for the politics.  AND THAT'S why Trump won.  You Dems talk too much and do too little.

Haha, I knew you aren't white. I know exactly who you are, Cartman

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Independent Thoughts on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:30 am

I knew you would, Ben.  
Isn't it nice to be reunited?

Only thing is... I've grown to become independent and think for myself.  Have you?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:32 am

Cartman?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Independent Thoughts on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:33 am

Old days and good times.
Ben and I have known each other for a long time.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:35 am

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:I knew you would, Ben.  
Isn't it nice to be reunited?

Only thing is... I've grown to become independent and think for myself.  Have you?

Hahaha, you've learned to pretend to be independent to distance yourself from the likes of Dubya and Palin. You will with Trump, too -- it will just take you a bit longer, because you're forever riding coattails, aren't you? It's okay, it's just who you are -- a shallow prick who thinks only of himself and has but a superficial understanding of politics.

Here, this'll cheer you up, buddy:



See? Real men help those in need, with matters large and ... small. Hit me up for tips like that whenever you want, I'm a generous sort.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:41 am

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:Old days and good times.
Ben and I have known each other for a long time.

Hey, I can actually sorta kinda get behind that. Back in the bad ol' Bush years, righties and lefties still talked to one another ... some times, on rare occasions at least. I think maybe we used to at least pretend to respect one another? Or maybe I've had too much to drink since then and I'm romanticizing it.

I'll tell you this -- I'd much rather have Bush back in the White House than this asshat who sneers at the Constitution and American way of life. Bush wouldn't call anyone a fake judge or declare the press the "enemy of the American people." You realize that paints a target on reporters' backs, right? Not to the reasonable person, but to the nutjobs.

Let's get past the mudslinging and memes and be human, whattayasay? I bet we can find some middle ground at times.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:42 am

Oh, and you are at least smart enough to realize that the pendulum swings both ways, right? Don't get too excited Smile

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Independent Thoughts on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:46 am

Hahaha!

Not a chance.
The older you get, the wiser you become.  
BTW, you'll hear that sentence in another thread. Perhaps the one you put a pie graph in? Wink  

Both parties suck. Once you come to that realization, it becomes easier to take each one with a bit of humor and stride.

You know my personal ID.  Send me a friend request.  Although we don't agree, we can still be friends. Smile

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by nicko on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:09 am

Wolf, you do make I laugh, your too thick to understand what you write. It must because you'v been stung so many times it's addled your brain.Can you not see that your posts are just full of insults,
against others that are not with your little gang.

If brains were Dynamite you would not have enough to blow your hat off !!
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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:13 am

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:Hahaha!

Not a chance.
The older you get, the wiser you become.  
BTW, you'll hear that sentence in another thread. Perhaps the one you put a pie graph in? Wink  

Both parties suck. Once you come to that realization, it becomes easier to take each one with a bit of humor and stride.

You know my personal ID.  Send me a friend request.  Although we don't agree, we can still be friends. Smile

Okay, I don't really know what you're saying there's not a chance of ...

Yeah, I've gotten older and wiser. But you know, you ... you're still doing the same old stuff that I'm sure amuses the hell out of you but it doesn't exactly endear you to others. What's it called again? Elitism. I'm pretty sure you've expressed a disdain for elitism around these parts, but then you portray yourself as an elitist. Don't know if that's projection on your part, don't know if you're just jealous of the left's obvious intellectual advantage, don't know if that's just a piece on the game board to you ... don't know if you even care whether people think you're a prick ... but hey. There it is.

I will say this in all sincerity. You can't in your heart of hearts look at the direction this government is going and say that we're doing things the American way now. Trump is trampling over a lot of our dearest traditions that previously were upheld by the farthest of the right and of the left. I'm just going to plant that seed for now, because I believe that you and I are both real "real Americans" who appreciate what this country is really about.

And it's not about denying entry into the country to a law-abiding person on the basis of their nation of origin or religious faith. Right? It's not about acting as though the judicial branch does not have the sole power to authoritatively interpret the Constitution, regardless of whether that enshrines gun rights or enshrines gay marriage. Right?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:15 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
nicko wrote:
What a prick you are wolfie you "shout you gob off in every post"

Why do you insist on  calling posters who disagree with you stupid insulting names?   you come across as a little boy who gets a thrill answering back the adults.   I think you should grow up a bit. you come across as a typical "Keyboard Warrior" !    Now have a go at me, and prove it !!

.
Rolling Eyes        You and Tommy are the classic "keyboard warriors",  nicko..

NOT me,  not Quill,  not veya,  not Ben..


Right there above, your using the kind of stupid insults that you constantly accuse others of.

You really should have your doctor check you med's, as you are becoming increasingly irrational by the day.


I don't use silly or wrong labels on people --  I simply 'call it as I see it'..

You make fascist, bullying or plain wrong-headed statements --  your opponents are allowed to call you out over that..

Tommy and Stormee and others have often made racist and xenophobic rants  on here--  and I simply called them what they are..    Nothing childish about that.

You, Ragg's, Nems or Syl cheer them on --  that makes you their "boosters and enablers"  --  no matter which way you try and spin your bullshit afterwards..


You want me to "take you on..",  you pathetic addled-brained fool  --  just show me where I have actually LIED about something you have written on here ?

You can whinge and moan and keep on shouting your bulldust, nicko  --    but how about backing up your idiotic fascist rants,with some genuine proof  !

Your tag-team can label me a "liar" as often as they like --  but they still haven't managed to back their own fallacious claims with any genuine evidence..        Suspect

There you go again. You replied to a post which was nothing to do with me, and yet again you dragged me into it. You start on me every time, and then complain when I pull you up for it. Why can't you just reply to the person you're arguing with and leave others out of it?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Independent Thoughts on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 am

Gotta agree with Nicko...  on everything he said.
Wolfie, get that anger out before signing on.  If you said the things in real life, as you did online, you'd probably run into several situations that would not be in your favor -- especially if the age you report on this site is true.  Chill and be respectful -- isn't that what you'd want?


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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:20 am

Come on, now, stop taking him so literally. Are right-wingers really that stupid, they can't see what's really being expressed when someone says something they find superficially offensive?


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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by nicko on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:21 am

If he was brave enough to say what he says on here face to face, he'd be eating Hospital food for a while !
He's just a coward with a big gob !!
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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:35 am

Ben Reilly wrote:Come on, now, stop taking him so literally. Are right-wingers really that stupid, they can't see what's really being expressed when someone says something they find superficially offensive?


What does it have to do with "right wingers"?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Independent Thoughts on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:36 am

Ben wrote:
...you're still doing the same old stuff that I'm sure amuses the hell out of you but it doesn't exactly endear you to others. What's it called again? Elitism.

Why is it "elitism" when I'm in-line with the working class of this nation?  Is it "elitism" to have a job?

Ben wrote:
... don't know if you even care whether people think you're a prick ... but hey. There it is.

No.  I don't care if Wolfie or [fill many names here] thinks that I'm a "prick".  We all have differing opinions, and that's great.  But, at the end of the day, mine is the one that's correct.  Just look at your current political landscape --- you can call that "elitism", or you can call that reality.  

I called Trump's win and, despite the odds, he won.  Obviously.  And I called your party's demise, years ago... and here we are!!

Your DNC should hire someone to restructure it's platform.  It's about to be a passing thing/party/fad of the past, like Reeboks.  Sorry, but true.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:51 am

nicko wrote:If he was brave enough to say what he says on here face to face, he'd be eating Hospital food for a while !
He's just a coward with a big gob !!

Razz

Both you and NIT are the last twats that should be calling anybody a "coward", or "angry", or big mouthed -- when we see you two fools throwing you innane and ridiculous abuse at me, Quill, veya and Ben, day in and day out...

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:26 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:Old days and good times.
Ben and I have known each other for a long time.

Hey, I can actually sorta kinda get behind that. Back in the bad ol' Bush years, righties and lefties still talked to one another ... some times, on rare occasions at least. I think maybe we used to at least pretend to respect one another? Or maybe I've had too much to drink since then and I'm romanticizing it.

I'll tell you this -- I'd much rather have Bush back in the White House than this asshat who sneers at the Constitution and American way of life. Bush wouldn't call anyone a fake judge or declare the press the "enemy of the American people,You realize that paints a target on reporters' backs, right? Not to the reasonable person, but to the nutjobs.

Let's get past the mudslinging and memes and be human, whattayasay? I bet we can find some middle ground at times.

It goes with the job I'm afraid Ben, as you and I both know, and has done so since the days of the early 17th century pamphleteers whose brand of political exposes and the publicly written expression and reporting of radical opinion contributed significantly to the start of the Civil War (ours, not yours).

In fact it might reasonably be said that the libellous (Latin definition: little book)) scribes in ancient Rome were the first investigative reporters who risked a cut throat in a back alley or becoming an ingredient in a hungry lion's dinner as a reward for exposing the activities of the political elite of the era.

It's still happening today in many parts of the world: The catalogue of murders and maimings of reporters is significant.

Maybe that's why so many commentators are driven to relying on the anonymity afforded by internet blogs when writing about politically contentious issues.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by nicko on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:28 pm

Day in and day out",    you are a lying wanker of the first order, Wolfie

Your imagination is a source of wonder,

You bring nothing to this Forum but insults and put downs,
You are the forum clown mate, time you realised it.


Last edited by nicko on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : FORGOT TO PUT IN THE NAME WOLFIE.)
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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Andy on Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:13 pm

Stick with it Wolfie. There appears to be be a vacuum as team leader for the rw'ers on here since Sorrmee was dismissed.
There are a bit rudderless, unlike the more centrist and left leaning on here who.sre team players.
I expect there will continue  to be abuse until a new rw pecking order is established.
NIT seems to be the frontrunner, but he will run out of debate when Trump is ousted.
Sit back, chill out with a glass of wine and watch the fun.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Syl on Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:25 pm

nicko wrote:If he was brave enough to say what he says on here face to face, he'd be eating Hospital food for a while !
He's just a coward with a big gob !!

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:37 pm

nicko wrote:Day in and day out",    you are a lying wanker of the first order, Wolfie

Your imagination is a source of wonder,

You bring nothing to this Forum but insults and put downs,
You are the forum clown mate, time you realised it.

Rolling Eyes

You are getting pathetic,  flicko...

You have been abusing me nearly every day on here for the past few weeks...
And why ?  Because I call out some of your friends for their racist, xenophobic and fascist rants..

And when it's not me, it's Quill, veya, Andy or sassy copping your ire.


You call me a wanker and a joke, simply because you don't like me standing up to your incessant bullying and fanciful lies..    You may have Tommy, dyknose, Ragg's and company agreeing with your arrogant lies (it was Horatio awarded me the "forum clown" title last year --  but it's time,you realised you twats only number 6 or 7 people on here --  not the whole forum..) -- but you clowns are a minority and  really don't matter in the big picture --  having you fascist pigs lying about your opponents on here is becoming just another 'badge of honour' these days.

When you are shown up for the whining little 'girly_man'*  that you are,  you start throwing puerile abuse at me, or veya, or Quill, or even  Ben --  that are in truth more befitting to you and your bulling cohorts.


You really must get those meds checked there, matey --  you're becoming more and more demented with each visit onto here..

And it's also well past time you stopped claiming to speak for the whole forum, you arrogant fuckbrain  --  you're only one voice on here, same as the rest of us...

*  Thank the Governator (Big Arnie) for that tag..

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by eddie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:51 pm

Guys please can you call a truce? Draw a line.
I'm very sensitive today and I'm sure neither of you want to make me get all chaotic and start going crazy like a wailing banshee?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Andy on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Trump = Alt right = Nazi soundalikes.

http://news.sky.com/story/hate-figure-richard-spencer-dreams-of-a-50-year-us-immigrant-crackdown-10770296

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:21 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
nicko wrote:Day in and day out",    you are a lying wanker of the first order, Wolfie

Your imagination is a source of wonder,

You bring nothing to this Forum but insults and put downs,
You are the forum clown mate, time you realised it.

Rolling Eyes

You are getting pathetic,  flicko...

You have been abusing me nearly every day on here for the past few weeks...
And why ?  Because I call out some of your friends for their racist, xenophobic and fascist rants..

And when it's not me, it's Quill, veya, Andy or sassy copping your ire.


You call me a wanker and a joke, simply because you don't like me standing up to your incessant bullying and fanciful lies..    You may have Tommy, dyknose, Ragg's and company agreeing with your arrogant lies (it was Horatio awarded me the "forum clown" title last year --  but it's time,you realised you twats only number 6 or 7 people on here --  not the whole forum..) -- but you clowns are a minority and  really don't matter in the big picture --  having you fascist pigs lying about your opponents on here is becoming just another 'badge of honour' these days.

When you are shown up for the whining little 'girly_man'*  that you are,  you start throwing puerile abuse at me, or veya, or Quill, or even  Ben --  that are in truth more befitting to you and your bulling cohorts.


You really must get those meds checked there, matey --  you're becoming more and more demented with each visit onto here..

And it's also well past time you stopped claiming to speak for the whole forum, you arrogant fuckbrain  --  you're only one voice on here, same as the rest of us...

*  Thank the Governator (Big Arnie) for that tag..

That's the third time that you've dragged into your rants in this thread. Do try to go at least one post without mentioning me - there's a good chap. Oh, and stop putting an apostrophe in my name.

Anyone would think that you're the "voice" of this forum, the way you go on. You're just one person - like anyone else, so wind your neck in.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by nicko on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:34 pm

My "bullying and lies" fcuk me your something else Wolfie.

Show me my Bullying ?
Show me my lies/
You are imagining things, see a Doctor ASAP, Your Dementia is getting worse.
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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:35 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Stick with it Wolfie. There appears to be be a vacuum as team leader for the rw'ers on here since Sorrmee was dismissed.
There are a bit rudderless, unlike the more centrist and left leaning on here who.sre team players.
I expect there will continue  to be abuse until a new rw pecking order is established.
NIT seems to be the frontrunner, but he will run out of debate when Trump is ousted.
Sit back, chill out with a glass of wine and watch the fun.

You mean they can't think for themselves, and they feel the need to stick together and suck up to each other?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by nicko on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:38 pm

You got that right Raggs !
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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:Stick with it Wolfie. There appears to be be a vacuum as team leader for the rw'ers on here since Sorrmee was dismissed.
There are a bit rudderless, unlike the more centrist and left leaning on here who.sre team players.
I expect there will continue  to be abuse until a new rw pecking order is established.
NIT seems to be the frontrunner, but he will run out of debate when Trump is ousted.
Sit back, chill out with a glass of wine and watch the fun.

You mean they can't think for themselves, and they feel the need to stick together and suck up to each other?

You don't understand. You are thinking in conflict metaphors. Progressives think in cooperation metaphors. 'Team player' means problem-solving for the whole; only self-interested RW'ers think in selfish, individualist terms.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean they can't think for themselves, and they feel the need to stick together and suck up to each other?

You don't understand.  You are thinking in conflict metaphors.  Progressives think in cooperation metaphors.  'Team player' means problem-solving for the whole; only self-interested RW'ers think in selfish, individualist terms.

You mean they need a leader because they're useless by themselves?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Andy on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:48 pm

Right wingers always adore a rw dictator. Ghengis Khan,  Mugabe, Hitler and even Putin fits the bill. Now Trump.
All egoistic megalomaniacs bent on absolute power.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You don't understand.  You are thinking in conflict metaphors.  Progressives think in cooperation metaphors.  'Team player' means problem-solving for the whole; only self-interested RW'ers think in selfish, individualist terms.

You mean they need a leader because they're useless by themselves?

I think Andy has the idea. He never spoke of a need for leaders in the ranks of LW'rs; he spoke of the RW needing a leader.

RW'rs tend to be much more hierarchical, if not downright authoritarian in their thinking.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean they need a leader because they're useless by themselves?

I think Andy has the idea.  He never spoke of a need for leaders in the ranks of LW'rs; he spoke of the RW needing a leader.

RW'rs tend to be much more hierarchical, if not downright authoritarian in their thinking.  

Oh, I thought you said they thought in individualist terms - as if that was a bad thing. Therefore, it's the lefties who need a leader.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Andy on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Left wingers think in terms of TEAM.

Right wingers always thinks of themselves first  - I.
There is no I in Team.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:05 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Left wingers think in terms of TEAM.

Right wingers always thinks of themselves first  - I.
There is no I in Team.

As in tag team?

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think Andy has the idea.  He never spoke of a need for leaders in the ranks of LW'rs; he spoke of the RW needing a leader.

RW'rs tend to be much more hierarchical, if not downright authoritarian in their thinking.  

Oh, I thought you said they thought in individualist terms - as if that was a bad thing. Therefore, it's the lefties who need a leader.


We seem to be in theory-mode today. That's a good thing.

Social systems built upon individualism can only, inevitably shrink down to self-serving motives. What else is there to champion? That's why modern democracy goes hand-in-hand with Smithsonian free-market systems.

It isn't until awareness of the social instincts of humans are considered that other kinds of systems are considered. That's why socialism is an advancement upon democracy. Socialism, like 3-dimensional chess, is an advanced way of conceiving our existence.

It's unfortunate that the Cold War biases stymied our ability to progress in social theory, particularly here in America.

Trump, for example, is a return to insular, parochial and nationalistic kinds of thinking.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh, I thought you said they thought in individualist terms - as if that was a bad thing. Therefore, it's the lefties who need a leader.


We seem to be in theory-mode today.  That's a good thing.

Social systems built upon individualism can only, inevitably shrink down to self-serving motives.  What else is there to champion?  That's why modern democracy goes hand-in-hand with Smithsonian free-market systems.

It isn't until awareness of the social instincts of humans are considered that other kinds of systems are considered.  That's why socialism is an advancement upon democracy.  Socialism, like 3-dimensional chess, is an advanced way of conceiving our existence.  

It's unfortunate that the Cold War biases stymied our ability to progress in social theory, particularly here in America.

Trump, for example, is a return to insular, parochial and nationalistic kinds of thinking.

Pretending that lefties aren't self-serving is laughable. Of course they are. They don't give a toss any more than anyone else. If they weren't forced to pay taxes, they wouldn't pay any.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by eddie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:20 pm

It's just incredibly silly to judge someone entirely on their political leanings.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:32 pm

eddie wrote:It's just incredibly silly to judge someone entirely on their political leanings.

Why on earth would you say that?  Political framing is one of the most fundamental formative things that occurs in one's life.  Politics is an outgrowth of family life, and its formation takes place at the level of learning a language or interactive behavior.

Read Geo. Lakoff, Moral Politics. Politics is shaped by the kind of childhood you had. Strict father or nurturant mother.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by eddie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:It's just incredibly silly to judge someone entirely on their political leanings.

Why on earth would you say that?  Political framing is one of the most fundamental formative things that occurs in one's life.  Politics is an outgrowth of family life, and its formation takes place at the level of learning a language or interactive behavior.

Read Geo. Lakoff, Moral Politics.  Politics is shaped by the kind of childhood you had.  Strict father or nurturant mother.

What will happen to you when you one day sit down at a bar and get chatting to a really nice guy, someone you have heaps in common with and who makes you laugh the night away, only to find he voted for a RW candidate?
And before you say you wouldn't have anything in common with him so that would never happen, I'm betting it's happened to you loads of times without you even knowing.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:


We seem to be in theory-mode today.  That's a good thing.

Social systems built upon individualism can only, inevitably shrink down to self-serving motives.  What else is there to champion?  That's why modern democracy goes hand-in-hand with Smithsonian free-market systems.

It isn't until awareness of the social instincts of humans are considered that other kinds of systems are considered.  That's why socialism is an advancement upon democracy.  Socialism, like 3-dimensional chess, is an advanced way of conceiving our existence.  

It's unfortunate that the Cold War biases stymied our ability to progress in social theory, particularly here in America.

Trump, for example, is a return to insular, parochial and nationalistic kinds of thinking.

Pretending that lefties aren't self-serving is laughable. Of course they are. They don't give a toss any more than anyone else. If they weren't forced to pay taxes, they wouldn't pay any.

You sound more like you are trying to convince yourself, than anyone else. In fact, we are far more social than we are individual. A cat is individual, and hardly cares about any moral tone to relationships; a dog is social, and look at the difference. Even selfishness ('I am rich') is born of eliciting a reaction from others. Society is the human platform.

Look at all the social programs that come out of LW politics. Healthcare. Food and education. Roads, bridges, airports, police protection...all derived from a sense of our social nature. Hell, even defense--formation of armies--is fundamentally born of our social existence. All of these things require a sense of we are living together.

What you are doing is looking through the prism of your own ideology. You think because you--with your conservative thinking--value the lonely shekel, that of course everyone else does too. Liberals don't. Socialist don't. In fact, in reality you don't, despite your ideologically motivated perception.


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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:53 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Why on earth would you say that?  Political framing is one of the most fundamental formative things that occurs in one's life.  Politics is an outgrowth of family life, and its formation takes place at the level of learning a language or interactive behavior.

Read Geo. Lakoff, Moral Politics.  Politics is shaped by the kind of childhood you had.  Strict father or nurturant mother.

What will happen to you when you one day sit down at a bar and get chatting to a really nice guy, someone you have heaps in common with and who makes you laugh the night away, only to find he voted for a RW candidate?  
And before you say you wouldn't have anything in common with him so that would never happen, I'm betting it's happened to you loads of times without you even knowing.

I would admit it is anomalous.  I enjoy theory and philosophy, so naturally my conversation with him would eventually drift off onto political ideas.  I would be horrified if he turned out to have Nazi ideas...probably close off the conversation quickly.  Politics is so fundamental that I would be uncomfortable with him.

It's kinda the same way when I realized that Americans in Iraq were raping young girls, torturing other human beings, kidnapping, murdering children, etc.  Same feeling I had with Viet Nam.I was ashamed to be an American.  It's that fundamental.


Last edited by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Pretending that lefties aren't self-serving is laughable. Of course they are. They don't give a toss any more than anyone else. If they weren't forced to pay taxes, they wouldn't pay any.

You sound more like you are trying to convince yourself, than anyone else.  In fact, we are far more social than we are individual.  A cat is individual, and hardly cares about any moral tone to relationships; a dog is social, and look at the difference.  Even selfishness ('I am rich') is born of eliciting a reaction from others.  Society is the human platform.

Look at all the social programs that come out of LW politics.  Healthcare.  Food and education.  Roads, bridges, airports, police protection...all derived from a sense of our social nature.  Hell, even defense--formation of armies--is fundamentally born of our social existence.  All of these things require a sense of we are living together.

What you are doing is looking through the prism of your own ideology.  You think because you--with your conservative thinking--value the lonely shekel, that of course everyone else does too.  Liberals don't.  Socialist don't.  In fact, in reality you don't, despite your ideologically motivated perception.


A dog is more likely to attack another dog or a human than a cat is. Cool A cat might run away if it feels threatened, but a dog might take your hand off if it feels threatened.

Even conservatives are in favour of roads, healthcare, food, and education you know. Lefties are not more "virtuous" than anyone else - they want things which benefit themselves.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by eddie on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Why on earth would you say that?  Political framing is one of the most fundamental formative things that occurs in one's life.  Politics is an outgrowth of family life, and its formation takes place at the level of learning a language or interactive behavior.

Read Geo. Lakoff, Moral Politics.  Politics is shaped by the kind of childhood you had.  Strict father or nurturant mother.

What will happen to you when you one day sit down at a bar and get chatting to a really nice guy, someone you have heaps in common with and who makes you laugh the night away, only to find he voted for a RW candidate?  
And before you say you wouldn't have anything in common with him so that would never happen, I'm betting it's happened to you loads of times without you even knowing.

I would admit it is anomalous.  I enjoy theory and philosophy, so naturally my conversation with him would eventually drift off onto political ideas.  I would be horrified if he turned out to have Nazi ideas...probably close off the conversation quickly.  Politics is so fundamental that I would be uncomfortable with him.

It's kinda the same way when I realized that Americans in Iraq were raping young girls, torturing other human beings, kidnapping, murdering children, etc.  Same feeling I had with Viet Nam.I was ashamed to be an American.  It's that fundamental.

Fair enough. That makes sense, but I still sit by the fact that there can be big differences between people yet they can still be in a civil relationship and certain opinions could cross over.

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Re: An Open Letter to My Friends Who Support Donald Trump

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:10 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You sound more like you are trying to convince yourself, than anyone else.  In fact, we are far more social than we are individual.  A cat is individual, and hardly cares about any moral tone to relationships; a dog is social, and look at the difference.  Even selfishness ('I am rich') is born of eliciting a reaction from others.  Society is the human platform.

Look at all the social programs that come out of LW politics.  Healthcare.  Food and education.  Roads, bridges, airports, police protection...all derived from a sense of our social nature.  Hell, even defense--formation of armies--is fundamentally born of our social existence.  All of these things require a sense of we are living together.

What you are doing is looking through the prism of your own ideology.  You think because you--with your conservative thinking--value the lonely shekel, that of course everyone else does too.  Liberals don't.  Socialist don't.  In fact, in reality you don't, despite your ideologically motivated perception.


A dog is more likely to attack another dog or a human than a cat is. Cool A cat might run away if it feels threatened, but a dog might take your hand off if it feels threatened.

Even conservatives are in favour of roads, healthcare, food, and education you know. Lefties are not more "virtuous" than anyone else - they want things which benefit themselves.

The cat/dog thing was a loose metaphor...I was attempting to give you the image in 140-words or less. The cat is a solo animal; a dog attacks in packs, if you go to hostility visions.

The point is that the political ideology of conservatives is predicated on autonomous individualism. That is a false picture. I know conservatives live a social existence...that is my point. A theory of autonomous individualism is inconsistent with the way we live. Social and political theory ought not be false. Liberals recognize that; conservatives twist it away and believe in a false picture.

Who knows what virtue is? Lefties are, frankly, more altruistic. They think in terms of others, whereas conservatives think only in terms of themselves. That's where we started, innit? Conservatism thinks selfishly, whereas liberals are sensitive to the needs of others. That's why conservatives are solely money amassers; liberals are problem solvers. The latter is a higher calling.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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