Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

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Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Corbyn uncovers a corrupt plot by Conservative Central Office to pay a sweetener to Surrey Council to avoid them having to call a referendum on a 15% council tax rise.
Funnily enough, the area is littered with Conservative cabinet members.
And May is saying the undisputable evidence of emails are 'alternative facts'.
I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Jeremy Corbyn: Leaked texts reveal Surrey 'sweetheart deal' on tax - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38908462


There needs to be a full independent inquiry as to how much was offered and by whom. 
And if any contraventions of the Parliament Act have been deliberatly broken, therd must be sackings and a criminal investigation into corruption and discreet backhand payments..

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by eddie on Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:49 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
eddie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
oh get off your high horse.
You are always giving your 2 pennath.

but at least we are clear that people who post here are not allowed to criticise the collective.

I'm not asking you not to give your opinion Dean - read the above properly.
do make up your mind

"don't come over here and start getting involved with how this site is run." rather says the opposite.


Oh fuck off. Don't come over here and start getting involved with how this site is run.
I could say many things about how yours is run but I don't, because I don't care. I don't mind you or anyone else giving constructive opinions but you're not, you're just slagging the forum off, and therefore the posters, the mod team and Ben and I won't sit here and have that.

That's what I actually said.
What did you read?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:28 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Dean, I don't know where you get off criticizing Ben.  He runs a superb site here.  He selects excellent people, who understand their own regional areas, and carry out their responsibilities in fine fashion.  

I've never been on your site, but just because Ben does an excellent job at delegating is no reason for criticism.  He has an excellent sense of organization and frankly, he doesn't clog the place up with personal vendettas.
he runs nothing, he allows others to do HIS job because he is too lazy to do the simple job himself. This forum could run itself and does not need 2 mods let alone the plethora it has. Nothing that is said or done could not wait a few hours to be dealt with. And then it could be done consistently by one chief.

Maybe some of the people here are too vile to be left alone and need a nanny.

Sour grapes, Dean?  Take a serious look at the definition of delegation:

Google wrote:del·e·ga·tion
ˌdeləˈɡāSH(ə)n/

The act or process of delegating or being delegated.
"prioritizing tasks for delegation"
synonyms: assignment, entrusting, giving, devolution, deputation, transference
"the delegation of tasks to others"

It has to do with leadership styles.  Some managers try to micromanage, that is...keep everything within themselves.  Generally, their style keeps their organization small, as it is limited to the understanding and growth of the solo manager.

Insightful managers delegate so as to enlarge the scope of their organization.  For example, one who runs an on-line site might spread out authority (moderation) to different time zones so as to run the site on a 24-hour basis.

Even more insightful managers delegate to people with special skills.  A manager of a business might assign an accountant to an accounts department, because s/he has the skills to understand accounting matters.  Similarly, a manager of a web-site might delegate moderation to various regions and nations around the globe, because of a regional moderator's understanding and insights into language, issues and tastes of the people they are moderating.

So Dean, delegating is a sign of an intelligent organization.  Permit me to comment, if you limit Flap to just your own mindset, your site is not prepared to grow, nor is it capable of tolerance of ideas not conforming to your own.  Bad idea for a discussion site...no growth, no diversity, no interest.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Syl on Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:52 pm

Nicko snored.Sleep
Handy Andy made a really nasty post.Evil or Very Mad
Others posted their distaste.No
Clingons came over to back HA up.
Thread got heated.
HA apologised.
Nicko accepted.grin angel  


So why is Eddie under fire?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Angry Andy on Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:58 pm

Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".


Last edited by Angry Andy on Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:31 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Angry Andy on Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:00 pm

Syl wrote:Nicko snored.Sleep
Handy Andy made a really nasty post.Evil or Very Mad
Others posted their distaste.No
Clingons came over to back HA up.
Thread got heated.
HA apologised.
Nicko accepted.grin angel  


So why is Eddie under fire?
Not sure whether Nicko accepted my apology.
I hope he does. It was meant sincerely.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by nicko on Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:07 pm

I did accept.
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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:09 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

I don't mind Dean coming over here. He's got the balls to say things that prompt discussion.

Just that...it's our job to answer back.

On his criticism of Ben's management style, he's arguing against the goose that lays the golden egg. See...he's over here because he's not over there. Even he craves a little diversity.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Angry Andy on Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:36 pm

nicko wrote:I did accept.
Thank you. 
Line in sand and move on?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:46 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

With respect...complete and utter tosh. If you feel you can produce any "Muslim hating" or "far right" views posted by me, please do so.

I can certainly produce some absolute filth posted by the Far Left on Dean's site, and by one of the poor innocents you name, if you wish.
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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:05 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".
as you know full well you were welcomed to my site under both your names georgie, and you and sassy were both booted out for working to get the forum closed because you cannot stand opposing views. the toryscum was booted being being a twisted little stalker. I am more than happy to have anyone of any political viewpoint on my forum and they are free to say what they like. they are not free to work towards getting the site closed though.

you have absolutely no idea what you are saying and your continued obsession with a site you claim never to visit, although the evidence would suggest otherwise is rather sinister.
I think you will find it is not I who derail threads but you with your continuous vile and sexist behaviour. the complaints to FM you mention have mainly come from sassy and her little gang of acolytes and phil again who is even more obsessed that you, all people who were quite rightly banned for good.

Your whole argumenyt falls down when I havent banned, Ben, I havent banned Lez, I havent banned Eddie, I havent banned fat bob, all people who could hardly be called raging right wingers.

you seem to be incapable of understanding you dont take on hatred by banning people, you allow them to show themselves for what they are and argue against what they say.

You are one of those people who cannot distinguish between an islamic fanatic and a Muslim. anyone in their right mind would be opposed to islamic fanaticism. I am hardly likely to be an islamaphobe as I have chosen to live in a Muslim country, married to a Muslim woman, someone you have viciously attacked on numerous occasions with your anti islam, anti woman rhetoric.

I think perhaps all the things you claim I am are actually character traits that you have in spades.

it is no wonder that people think of some on the left as utter hypocrites.









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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:09 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

I don't mind Dean coming over here.  He's got the balls to say things that prompt discussion.

Just that...it's our job to answer back.

On his criticism of Ben's management style, he's arguing against the goose that lays the golden egg.  See...he's over here because he's not over there.  Even he craves a little diversity.

some people do not understand the concept of a different opinion. If you do not follow the collective you must be eradicated.
I come here when something piques my interest.
I spend time in lots of places.
Ben can manage his own forum how he likes of course, its just the hypocrisy of the holier than thou attitude that irks me and others.
Those in the clique can do and say more or less what they like and others cant.

the lack of consistency is the problem.
If you have a no personal attack rule, then is should apply equally to all.
If you have any rule it should apply equally.

the perception is that it doesn't. except to those who it benefits.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:13 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:Dean cannot deal with opposing views.
He simply bans posters with them. Such as myself, Sassy, Scrat, Korben Dallas.
His site has had countless complaints to forumotion and several censures. 
He only wants posters who agree with his far right/alt right/Muslim hating views. Hence his membership was and presumably still is largely dominated by people who support those views.
It is difficult to understand his motives for coming here apparently just to disrupt, not to debate.
"Oh, I agree Hugh".
"So do I , Stevie".

With respect...complete and utter tosh. If you feel you can produce any "Muslim hating" or "far right" views  posted by me, please do so.

I can certainly produce some absolute filth posted by the Far Left on Dean's site, and by one of the poor innocents you name, if you wish.


To be fair to Andy here, Fred, you are wrongly reading, based off what he has claimed on Dean and not you.
Its in regards to Dean and claiming who he would want on his site. He then clarifies, its not everyone on that site, by stating very clearly its "largely dominated". 

Which means, not all on there would be classed as Far Right.
Now I will back you a 100% and state, you have never held Far Right views or held any prejudice against any group of people. In fact I think you share very similar center right politics as I do. You are critical more of ideas, beliefs, a political body etc, not people based on their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, ect. You clearly back as I do the belief to all having equality under the law.

Now I would disagree with Andy, to his claim of largely. 
As Nicko, Fatbob, yourself, Gelico, Costa, Flix, Eddie, Victor, Syl, Harvesmum, Nems are clearly not Far Right. Its clear there is more RW posters, than, left, but Dean, whether inadvertently or not, does attract those with Far Right Views, providing them with a comfort zone to spout off in. Thus, clearly from the few who are Far Right on there, the threads are dominated by Far right views from threads started.

Now I do not even think Dean is far Right, but he is treading further down that road, with his blind cult worship of Trump.

So I think you misread what Andy was claiming, as its not directed at you, and even more so I do not agree with his claim.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:34 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

With respect...complete and utter tosh. If you feel you can produce any "Muslim hating" or "far right" views  posted by me, please do so.

I can certainly produce some absolute filth posted by the Far Left on Dean's site, and by one of the poor innocents you name, if you wish.


To be fair to Andy here, Fred, you are wrongly reading, based off what he has claimed on Dean and not you.
Its in regards to Dean and claiming who he would want on his site. He then clarifies, its not everyone on that site, by stating very clearly its "largely dominated". 

Which means, not all on there would be classed as Far Right.
Now I will back you a 100% and state, you have never held Far Right views or held any prejudice against any group of people. In fact I think you share very similar center right politics as I do. You are critical more of ideas, beliefs, a political body etc, not people based on their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, ect. You clearly back as I do the belief to all having equality under the law.

Now I would disagree with Andy, to his claim of largely. 
As Nicko, Fatbob, yourself, Gelico, Costa, Flix, Eddie, Victor, Syl, Harvesmum, Nems are clearly not Far Right. Its clear there is more RW posters, than, left, but Dean, whether inadvertently or not, does attract those with Far Right Views, providing them with a comfort zone to spout off in. Thus, clearly from the few who are Far Right on there, the threads are dominated by Far right views from threads started.

Now I do not even think Dean is far Right, but he is trading further down that road, with his blind cult worship of Trump.

So I think you misread what Andy was claiming, as its not directed at you, and even more so I do not agree with his claim.
my support, if you can call it that, for trump is more to do with keeping that evil bitch clinton out of power.
Oh yes and getting those delicious snowflake tears that taste so fine.

As to right or left, I am fine with either viewpoint being made over there. I would love more on the left to come as it is so easy to expose the failure of their political viewpoint these days.
the thing is the left are far less tolerant of others than any other group around.

the far right are knobheads in the main as are the far left. The EDL and the UAF for instance are two sides of the same coin and deserve all the ridicule they can get.

The sad thing today is there is no opposition party in britian and governments always work better when there is an effective opposition.

That said I am absolutely delighted that corbyn will be almost single handedly driving labour out of existence in 2020, if he can last that long of course,That may well depend on whether MaoDonnels amendment to labour rules get passed and the requirements for getting on any leadership ballot is reduced to just 13 mp's.

Mind you some of those far lefts loons might find that a bit of a struggle. Labour, if they survive will have to spend years rooting out the infiltrators, who are much the same as militant tendency from the 80's. I am not sure they will manage it this time before they become a rump party like the lib dems.  

Labour may well just become a party of the metropolitan elites and have little showing in the rest of the country.

here we are half way through a parliament, after 7 years of austerity and the tories are still 15, 16 or 18 points ahead.
Even the most generous margins of error in the polls would still mean labour facing a whitewash.
of course 2½years is a long time in politics and things could change, but the best we could expect I feel is a labour/snp/libdem/plaidcymru/sinn fein coalition and that would be most amusing to watch.

I think the lefts time is over for quite some time in much of the world as the sheeple have caught on to the fact that they never end up any better off with a left wing government.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:49 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thorin wrote:


To be fair to Andy here, Fred, you are wrongly reading, based off what he has claimed on Dean and not you.
Its in regards to Dean and claiming who he would want on his site. He then clarifies, its not everyone on that site, by stating very clearly its "largely dominated". 

Which means, not all on there would be classed as Far Right.
Now I will back you a 100% and state, you have never held Far Right views or held any prejudice against any group of people. In fact I think you share very similar center right politics as I do. You are critical more of ideas, beliefs, a political body etc, not people based on their sexuality, gender, ethnicity, class, ect. You clearly back as I do the belief to all having equality under the law.

Now I would disagree with Andy, to his claim of largely. 
As Nicko, Fatbob, yourself, Gelico, Costa, Flix, Eddie, Victor, Syl, Harvesmum, Nems are clearly not Far Right. Its clear there is more RW posters, than, left, but Dean, whether inadvertently or not, does attract those with Far Right Views, providing them with a comfort zone to spout off in. Thus, clearly from the few who are Far Right on there, the threads are dominated by Far right views from threads started.

Now I do not even think Dean is far Right, but he is trading further down that road, with his blind cult worship of Trump.

So I think you misread what Andy was claiming, as its not directed at you, and even more so I do not agree with his claim.
my support, if you can call it that, for trump is more to do with keeping that evil bitch clinton out of power.
Oh yes and getting those delicious snowflake tears that taste so fine.

As to right or left, I am fine with either viewpoint being made over there. I would love more on the left to come as it is so easy to expose the failure of their political viewpoint these days.
the thing is the left are far less tolerant of others than any other group around.

the far right are knobheads in the main as are the far left. The EDL and the UAF for instance are two sides of the same coin and deserve all the ridicule they can get.

The sad thing today is there is no opposition party in britian and governments always work better when there is an effective opposition.

That said I am absolutely delighted that corbyn will be almost single handedly driving labour out of existence in 2020, if he can last that long of course,That may well depend on whether MaoDonnels amendment to labour rules get passed and the requirements for getting on any leadership ballot is reduced to just 13 mp's.

Mind you some of those far lefts loons might find that a bit of a struggle. Labour, if they survive will have to spend years rooting out the infiltrators, who are much the same as militant tendency from the 80's. I am not sure they will manage it this time before they become a rump party like the lib dems.  

Labour may well just become a party of the metropolitan elites and have little showing in the rest of the country.

here we are half way through a parliament, after 7 years of austerity and the tories are still 15, 16 or 18 points ahead.
Even the most generous margins of error in the polls would still mean labour facing a whitewash.
of course 2½years is a long time in politics and things could change, but the best we could expect I feel is a labour/snp/libdem/plaidcymru/sinn fein coalition and that would be most amusing to watch.

I think the lefts time is over for quite some time in much of the world as the sheeple have caught on to the fact that they never end up any better off with a left wing government.


1) But that falls apart when you blindly follow and support and even worse defend his views and policies.

2) I agree that you have always welcomed everyone. But you have inadvertently pushed people away from your site. Due to the fact, you never challenge when some of your posters are racist for example. Now I am not saying you should ban any speech. To the contrary, its your failure to condemn this happening, when it often does so. That is the worst kind of sales pitch, and you thus end up doing yourself a disservice by your inaction over condemning. I am all for challenging and being critical of poor and bad views and ideologies. With your failure to condemn, as anyone should, any form of hate speech. You have made then people question why you stand by silent on this. When any rational person should condemn. You thus make people question your motives and views, caused by yourself. Now I know you are not Far Right, but you are slipping down that path.

3) It also does not help when you ban people stupidly, because you get angered, of which if you were being honest you do. You are only human after all, as we all are and make mistakes. Thus, like everyone else things make us snap and become unreasonable, of which you can be. If you want to draw people to your forum, you need to stop trying to silence people, as you did with me, simply, because I went off something you defend. Tax avoidance. Where rightly, such a belief effects many, where people look to get out of paying their way. All irrelevant anyway. Y have some that dominate your site with clearly lots of hate towards people. Now its clearly not very attracting for then people to join or engage debate.

4) Now I understand very well feuds that have festered over the years, and its all pathetic. I dont have anything against you by the way, I just thought you were childish, because I rattled your cage. People need to start listening to people, and this is one thing the whole Trump episode has taught me. As people are being drawn down the path of a constant bitch fest, to over power people with their views. Trying to break the will of people using abuse and hate. We already face constant issues and problems with ideologies like Islamism. Now we have a growing support of people being drawn to something as appalling and Totalitarian, Far Right fear based hate. Both should be condemned and have constant criticism spelled out onto them

As to your views on Labour, I agree

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:07 am

Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:12 am

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.


+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:26 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.
are you saying you cannot offer a counterpoint?
it's easier to avoid confrontation?

+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.


Last edited by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:32 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:28 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thorin wrote:
are you saying you cannot offer a counterpoint?
it's easier to avoid confrontation?

+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.
are you saying you cannot offer a counterpoint?
it's easier to avoid confrontation?


How can I say, I cannot offer a counterpoint, after providing one?

scratch


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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:28 am

I'm not sure who you are responding to there, Dean. Or exactly what you are referring to.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:28 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.
sorry if it's a sales pitch then perhaps people like you and andwew should stop bringing it up. the only time I mention it is in response to the bollox being spouted by people with their own axe to grind.

I know I kicked you out, but get over it and move on. you were just the same about this place when they kicked you out. they were foolish enough to let you back in in. I want make that mistake twice.

+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:30 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thorin wrote:




+1


You have to remember Eilzel, this is also a sales pitch for Dean, to garner people to join.
He already has people, he fails to see, as you said. As people are already put off with the hate. Where then I said, he fails to condemn. Thus being in complicity, by then allowing it to stand unchallenged.
sorry if it's a sales pitch then perhaps people like you and andwew should stop bringing it up. the only time I mention it is in response to the bollox being spouted by people with their own axe to grind.
I know I kicked you out, but get over it and move on. you were just the same about this place when they kicked you out. they were foolish enough to let you back in in. I want make that mistake twice.



Thanks for telling me how much you are triggered

I know you want me back, hence why you are here begging

Laughing

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:31 am

Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.
are the diversity of views different. seems to be pretty much the same with a massive slant to the left instead of the right.

those that do disagree seem to end up censured in one form or another.

My criticisms are entirely about the hypocrisy and lack of consistency in moderation, not the forum content.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:32 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.
are the diversity of views different. seems to be pretty much the same with a massive slant to the left instead of the right.

those that do disagree seem to end up censured in one form or another.

My criticisms are entirely about the hypocrisy and lack of consistency in moderation, not the forum content.


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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:33 am

Eilzel wrote:I'm not sure who you are responding to there, Dean. Or exactly what you are referring to.
it was to you lez not mr clever.
[img][/img]

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by eddie on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:34 am

I don't think comparing forums is fair or worth it.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:34 am

Thorin wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
sorry if it's a sales pitch then perhaps people like you and andwew should stop bringing it up. the only time I mention it is in response to the bollox being spouted by people with their own axe to grind.
I know I kicked you out, but get over it and move on. you were just the same about this place when they kicked you out. they were foolish enough to let you back in in. I want make that mistake twice.



Thanks for telling me how much you are triggered

I know you want me back, hence why you are here begging

Laughing

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:35 am

eddie wrote:I don't think comparing forums is fair or worth it.
then tell others to stop bringing it up. Or should I not respond when it is mentioned by people?
I find it hard to keep up with the rules.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:37 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
eddie wrote:I don't think comparing forums is fair or worth it.
then tell others to stop bringing it up. Or should I not respond when it is mentioned by people?
I find it hard to keep up with the rules.



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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:38 am

Really, Dean?

We have Eds, didge, Lord Foul, Syl, Miffs and sometimes Zack around the centre.

Me, Ben, veya, wolfie, quill, sassy, andy and others on the Left.

Tommy, nicko, VoD, raggs, Fred, Independent, yourself and others on the Right.

That is pretty extensive. Especially compared with your place.

Just look how many threads on Flap elicit between zero and less than ten replies. No one os interested because there's either no debate or no maturity.

As for mods here- we try. It isn't your problem anyone- aren't there more important/interesting things to discuss?


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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:40 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I'm not sure who you are responding to there, Dean. Or exactly what you are referring to.
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:45 am

Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:50 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:52 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
it was to you lez not mr clever.
" />

Still not sure of your point. But assuming it is why I don't respond to idiocy well there seems little point- it gets nowhere. For all the time wasting in debates from people like tommy here, at least he responds with some sense.
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Pmsl. Some of your posters do not know how to debate or discuss. They just post insults against certain groups and then never respond to what you actually say. With the posters here you do. I have better things to do with my time than engage with the likes of your most prolific posters knowing that whatever I say will elicit nothing more than some of the same crap they've come out with for 6 years, and not a single attempt to answer points made.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:53 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!
yes best just sweep it under the carpet if its too hard to deal with.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:55 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!
yes best just sweep it under the carpet if its too hard to deal with.


I doubt you will find a pussy big enough, to sweep trump under the carpet.

His ego will never fit

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:59 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Sometimes it is, when you see you're wasting your time trying to move an immovable object!
yes best just sweep it under the carpet if its too hard to deal with.

We don't sweep anything away. Posters here with anti-immigrant, anti-equality, anti-welfare views post a lot and are valued posters here. They manage to post without vulgarities and nonsense. Views are no issue, if expressed we will respond.

But if someone wants to do nothing but spit bigoted comments and NOT respond at all, then yes they are not welcome here- because they are the ones offering no discussion. And that is why NF does very well.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:02 am

So who leaked the texts, and where is the proof that anything was offered by the Government?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by eddie on Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:50 am



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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:40 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Dean, for all your criticism of this forum, it is faring much better than Flap. The diversity of views here is leagues ahead. I still look in on Flap but it is generally a rant by one poster followed by agreement. Only fatbob offers any real alternative. No one challenges than increasingly racist and homophobic posts of major and blackie. I would jump on a thread but whenever I do it is met with nonsense and vulgarity by the usual suspects. No content, just idiocy.

The mods here try to keep things reasonable. It is not always easy, but better than the awful free for all you allow which just lowers the tone to current White House levels. Hence a large mod team here- and all the more successful for it.

Now as you are obviously here because you want real debate, why not just do that, instead of trying to pick apart the competition.

are the diversity of views different. seems to be pretty much the same with a massive slant to the left instead of the right.

those that do disagree seem to end up censured in one form or another.

My criticisms are entirely about the hypocrisy and lack of consistency in moderation, not the forum content.


Laughing

You really are "fucked in the head" Deano dawg,  ormas some Poms put it "brain fucked"...

Newsfix has been dominated by RW_whingers&losers on here over the last few months...

The main Lefty/Liberal contributions coming from veya, Quill and myself --  and with the likes of you, your late soldier Stormee, your half-dozen floptard pawns, good ol' Tommy, and that strange little spamming teabagger troll I/T dropping by every so often, all pushing your alt.right and neo-nazi trash talking on here --  the RWhingers are outdoing the Lefties by a good margin..

Maybe if you laid off your racist diatribes, tax avoidance and military dodging antics, you could actually apply some extra time into thinking clearly.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:15 am

Raggamuffin wrote:So who leaked the texts, and where is the proof that anything was offered by the Government?
It's a fair question Raggs, and one that won't be going away, despite the Conservatives trying to hide it with a lot of other bad news such as ending the 3000 child migrant program early.
I hope Labour are tenacious with this - it sounds of corruption in the highest echelons of power, giving covert cash to a hard up Conservative council where 2 high ranking Conservativs sit.
You just cannot see May or Hammond giving extra money to Sunderland or Liverpool council, can you?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:26 am

So what is the suggestion here? That there was favouritism going on? The council said they would have to put up council tax by up to 15%, which required a referendum, but they didn't have a referendum. Now the council tax has gone up 4.99% instead, so that's good isn't it?


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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:33 am

I also think it's important to know how these texts were leaked. Doesn't anyone else think so?

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:51 am

Ah, I found this.

The Labour leader said the embarrassing texts were intended for a government adviser called “Nick” but instead went to someone else with the same name, who had passed them on to the party leadership.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/08/jeremy-corbyn-accuses-may-of-sweetheart-deal-surrey-council-tax

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:57 am

I think the leader of Surrey council sent them to the wrong 'Nick'.
He sent them to a Labour Nick, not the Nick who is an advisor to the Chancellor, I believe..
If that happened, the leak is fair game and a huge embarrament for the Government.
To date there have been no denials.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:00 am

Angry Andy wrote:I think the leader of Surrey council sent them to the wrong 'Nick'.
He sent them to a Labour Nick, not the Nick who is an advisor to the Chancellor, I believe..
If that happened, the leak is fair game and a huge embarrament for the Government.
To date there have been no denials.

Yes, that would be fair enough. People should make sure they send stuff to the right person. Laughing

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:36 am

I would have liked to have seen how David Hodge reacted when he realised he'd sent the texts to the wrong Nick. From the look of it, he's quite friendly with the "wrong" Nick, but I wonder if that will continue to be the case. Razz

Anyway, the official explanation is that Surrey Council can keep the business rates which have been raised - or something like that. The texts are too vague to draw any real conclusion about what the "deal" was.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I would have liked to have seen how David Hodge reacted when he realised he'd sent the texts to the wrong Nick. From the look of it, he's quite friendly with the "wrong" Nick, but I wonder if that will continue to be the case. Razz

Anyway, the official explanation is that Surrey Council can keep the business rates which have been raised - or something like that. The texts are too vague to draw any real conclusion about what the "deal" was.

This is something that I mentioned earlier. The full transfer of locally-raised business rates to local authorities rather than to the Treasury was promised in, I think, 2015 to be fully implemented during the current Parliament.

If Surrey CC is one of the authorities being allowed to access the programme next year or the year after in order to stave off a planned 15 per cent Council Tax rise, then I would have thought that those Surrey citizens who could least afford such a massive hike would benefit far, far more than any of those "Tory toffs" that Andy hates with so much passion.

If there is corruption here I would be the last to defend it, and I don't blame the beleagured Corbyn for trying to capitalise on it because a Tory Opposition would do precisely the same thing were the boot on the other foot.

In the meantime, however, I personally find it difficult to see where there is any corruption in this matter....any more perhaps than during Labour's periods in government when they were well known for deliberately manipulating central governnment grant in favour of Labour-controlled local authorities and greatly to the disadvantage of Tory and Lib-Dem controlled authorities, particularly in the Shire counties.

Not corruption, maybe, but certainly hypocrisy...and this is something that Corbyn knows much about: Only today he has threatened Labour's shadow ministers and MPs with disciplinary measures should they again defy one of the three line whips that he imposes on Parliamentary votes.

He appears to have forgotten that he himself is probably the current record holder...as a back bench MP he deliberately defied his party Whips on no fewer than 428 occasions!
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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
he runs nothing, he allows others to do HIS job because he is too lazy to do the simple job himself. This forum could run itself and does not need 2 mods let alone the plethora it has. Nothing that is said or done could not wait a few hours to be dealt with. And then it could be done consistently by one chief.

Maybe some of the people here are too vile to be left alone and need a nanny.

Sour grapes, Dean?  Take a serious look at the definition of delegation:

Google wrote:del·e·ga·tion
ˌdeləˈɡāSH(ə)n/

The act or process of delegating or being delegated.
"prioritizing tasks for delegation"
synonyms: assignment, entrusting, giving, devolution, deputation, transference
"the delegation of tasks to others"

It has to do with leadership styles.  Some managers try to micromanage, that is...keep everything within themselves.  Generally, their style keeps their organization small, as it is limited to the understanding and growth of the solo manager.

Insightful managers delegate so as to enlarge the scope of their organization.  For example, one who runs an on-line site might spread out authority (moderation) to different time zones so as to run the site on a 24-hour basis.

Even more insightful managers delegate to people with special skills.  A manager of a business might assign an accountant to an accounts department, because s/he has the skills to understand accounting matters.  Similarly, a manager of a web-site might delegate moderation to various regions and nations around the globe, because of a regional moderator's understanding and insights into language, issues and tastes of the people they are moderating.

So Dean, delegating is a sign of an intelligent organization.  Permit me to comment, if you limit Flap to just your own mindset, your site is not prepared to grow, nor is it capable of tolerance of ideas not conforming to your own.  Bad idea for a discussion site...no growth, no diversity, no interest.
you say delegate, and if the forum was heaving there may well be a case for that, but a few hundred posts a day at most does not need micromanaging or delegating.

this is about making people who have little in their lives feel important and ensuring consistency is impossible. you just have to look how they all operate differently, some will let some people say and do what they like and some wont. some let their own petty prejudices cloud their judgement and some dont. Whether action is taken seems to depend on who's arse is having the smoke blown up at that time.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Eilzel wrote:Really, Dean?

We have Eds, didge, Lord Foul, Syl, Miffs and sometimes Zack around the centre.

Me, Ben, veya, wolfie, quill, sassy, andy and others on the Left.

Tommy, nicko, VoD, raggs, Fred, Independent, yourself and others on the Right.

That is pretty extensive. Especially compared with your place.

Just look how many threads on Flap elicit between zero and less than ten replies. No one os interested because there's either no debate or no maturity.

As for mods here- we try. It isn't your problem anyone- aren't there more important/interesting things to discuss?
yes I know you feel important now and well done, the thing is you dont need to be there. this forum is tiny and does not need lots of mods.
you seem to forget many of those who post here also have posted over there unless you are a control freak have not needed different people applying the rules differently.

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Re: Corrupt Conservatives. Nothing ever changes.

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
so it is easier to avoid confrontation than take on issues that you are passionate about with people who you think are wrong. ?

Pmsl. Some of your posters do not know how to debate or discuss. They just post insults against certain groups and then never respond to what you actually say. With the posters here you do. I have better things to do with my time than engage with the likes of your most prolific posters knowing that whatever I say will elicit nothing more than some of the same crap they've come out with for 6 years, and not a single attempt to answer points made.
well you have described bee creeper and georgie perfectly there

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