the TTP without Trump

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the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:43 am

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/why-the-us-withdrawal-from-the-transpacific-partnership-could-be-bad-for-australia/news-story/661c9bffc7bf9c58023299248ca9aea7


THE withdrawal of the US from the Trans-Pacific Partnership will be a huge blow to some Australian producers but its biggest impact could be to relations in the Asia-Pacific.

With the stroke of his pen and a smile, US President Donald Trump lived up to his promise of killing the TPP between America, Australia, New Zealand and nine other Pacific nations.

The agreement was originally billed as the gold-standard in free trade deals and a strategy to blunt China’s dominance in the Asia-Pacific.

But just three days after the TPP’s champion, former president Barack Obama, moved out of the White House, Mr Trump signed the executive order to withdraw the US from the TPP.

It is a major blow to Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull as the TPP was the key plank of the nation’s trade policy.

“Everyone knows what that means, right?” Mr Trump said at the signing ceremony.

“We’ve been talking about this for a long time. It’s a great thing for the American worker.”

A slimmed down TPP, without the US, could emerge, although China is expected to move in and fill the hole left by America. China was not invited to join the TPP and had already been negotiating its own rival deal, the RCEP.

The TPP was between the US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Singapore, Mexico, Chile, Vietnam, Peru, Brunei and Malaysia.


Australian Trade Minster Steven Ciobo, who is in the US, said on the weekend he had been speaking with remaining TPP nations “on ways to lock in the benefits from the TPP” without US involvement.

Negotiations began more than eight years ago and Australia’s prime ministers during the period — Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott and Mr Turnbull — all threw their support behind it.

The deal was signed last year and was in the process of being ratified. That looks unlikely to happen now that the US has pulled out.

heaps of good analysis at source.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:48 am

I think this Analysis is the most important in relation to long term global economy

WITHDRAWAL CLEARS THE WAY FOR CHINA

But one expert says Mr Trump’s decision to pull out of the TPP is giving China “a free hand to dictate trade in Asia”.

China was not invited to join the TPP, but Mr Trump could have opened the way for the Asian power by walking the US away from the massive free trade pact.

Mr Trump’s media spokesman Sean Spicer said on Monday the US would pursue one-on-one trade deals with countries rather than complicated multi-nation pacts like the TPP.

“For someone who is so outwardly anti-China, many of Trump’s major policies, philosophies, and plans benefit China,” Asia Society’s centre for US-China relations senior fellow Isaac Stone Fish said.

“TPP is just one of many examples.”

Mr Fish said Trump’s “discrediting” of the US alliance structure made China stronger in regards to Japan and South Korea.

“His isolationism, and his dislike of pushing China on human rights, improves the country’s image both domestically and internationally,” he said.

“His trade policies — and even a trade war — could push China towards an economy more reliant on domestic consumption, instead of exports.

“And that is what many foreign experts, and Chinese liberals, believe is the way for the country to build a sustainable economy.”

I think that bolded bit applies to A lot of Aussies too.
he has said the long term alliance we had are worthless under him. any Guarantee previously given is no longer Guaranteed.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:54 am

Also I think China is far less likely to pursue the "Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) clause" that gives foreign companies the right to sue governments. Which was always the major problem with the TPP for the 'little guy'. (and pushed by Clintons and Obama, as it favors rich US companies)

China's communist roots and high levels of state controlled industries makes it quite incompatible with the Chinese way of doing things.

Sorry Americans But I am starting to see Trump's presidency in a positive light... although not for the USA silent silent silent

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:56 am

AUSTRALIA LOOKS TO SALVAGE TPP

A historic 11-nation trade deal could still be salvaged without the US, Trade Minister Steve Ciobo believes.

“There’s quite a lot of countries that have an interest in looking to see if we could make a TPP 12 minus one work,” Mr Ciobo told ABC radio on Tuesday.

The minister conceded the original deal can’t go forward unless the US changes its mind.

But he has already had discussions with Canada, Mexico, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore and Malaysia about working towards an alternative.

“It’s a moving space, but it’s an important space, one that we must continue to pursue to give Aussie exporters the best chance to get preferential, global access for Australian exports,” he said.

Mr Ciobo had meetings with counterparts during the World Economic Forum in Davos last week.

“This is very much a live option and we’re pursuing it and it will be the focus of conversations for some time to come,” he said.

The Australian government would keep alive the option of ratifying the TPP even without the US.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/expert-predicts-terrorists-will-target-trumps-international-developments/news-story/5b43b97452c9633bc3b5ad814dfe5e41

Mr Turnbull noted Japan’s ratification of the TPP — the only country so far to do so — and underlined his desire to consider options to progress the agreement, his office said.

Both leaders agreed the deal was in the interests of both the Australian and Japanese people.

Aside from the TPP, Australia is currently part of negotiations for a Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership in the Asia Pacific region.

The RCEP could see a free trade deal between countries including Australia, China, India, Japan, the Republic of Korea and New Zealand.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:58 am

“Obviously the decision coming out of the US confirms some of Australia’s fears about America’s attitudes towards engagement with Asia,” Prof Medcalf told News Corp today.

“We need to increase channels of influence on the administration; congress, business, et cetera,” he said.

“We can have no illusions about how successful our efforts are going to be.

“We need to prepare for multiple possible futures — one, America’s worsening disengagement from Asia [and] two, temporary American disengagement under Trump, which means that US allies and partners like Australia will need to hold the line until the US comprehensively returns to Asia after Trump.

“Either way, we have to use all levels of influence and access to change the administration’s mind about trade participation in Asia.”

Prof Medcalf, who released a policy paper at the weekend outlining Australia’s need to do more to lobby the US, said President Trump’s decision on the TPP likely meant the Asian region was in for “a rough four years”.

But Australia and other regional partners needed to lay the groundwork for when America reengaged with Asia.

His report recommends Australia deepen and diversify its security and economic partnerships in the Indo-Pacific.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by eddie on Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:54 pm

Interesting point of view:


Can everyone stop saying Donald Trump killed off the Trans-Pacific Partnership? He didn’t. It was already dead. Thanks to pressure from ordinary Americans – yes, it really does work – TPP already lay without a pulse on the floor of Congress. There is no need to congratulate Trump’s bigoted regime or pretend he has assembled a cabinet that isn’t teeming with corporate interests. The Republicans didn’t co-operate with Barack Obama, and it would surely be a mistake for Democrats to normalise a deeply unpopular demagogue who actively threatens an admittedly already compromised democracy.

That Trump has any ownership over TPP is a travesty, and a damning indictment of the Democratic establishment. The new president’s rightwing populism combines xenophobia, protectionism and policies which directly enrich the Donald Trump class. Yes, American workers have suffered years of stagnating or falling wages and the decimation of industries, devastating the communities they sustained. Both Republicans and establishment Democrats are responsible, and never considered the possibility they were creating anger and resentment which one day a vulgar demagogue would exploit.

If the Democrats had listened to the likes of Bernie Sanders and other progressives who opposed trade deals which benefit corporate elites at the expense of workers’ livelihoods, the United States might not be currently embroiled in one of the worst crises since its foundation. TPP underlined why Hillary Clinton – despite standing against a serial liar – was so widely distrusted. As secretary of state she backed the treaty, then sat on the fence, then belatedly opposed it, feeding a sense she lacked any firm beliefs and would shift positions for crude political advantage. Clinton’s supposedly inevitable victory was sunk by an industrially ravaged Rust Belt: if the Democratic candidate in the ballot had offered authentic opposition to TPP, the current trajectory of the United States and the world would not be so horrifying

More here https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/donald-trump-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership-president-hillary-clinton

Nothing that Trump does is motivated by the interests of the average American. A megalomaniac plutocrat like Trump scapegoats foreigners while promoting policies which directly enrich his associates. Don’t fall for a single thing he does. Resist, don’t normalise, isolate him, exploit divisions within the Republicans. Don’t fuel the impression that Trump is anything other than a charlatan who encourages working Americans to blame anyone but the men like him who are responsible for the multiple ills that define this wealthy but unjust society.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:01 pm

TTIP was a terrible deal because it sought to give corporations power over national govts.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:TTIP was a terrible deal because it sought to give corporations power over national govts.

only this
"Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) clause"
was really bad.
that is now very unlikely to be part of it as it was pushed by the USA that has withdrawn.
it was the major sticking point for many of the other nations.

interestingly BOTH sides of the US political spectrum where pushing it, and agree with what Eddie posted about it being a major reason for Hillary's failure.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:57 pm

It was secret and only became known to uk public after being exposed...


The eu wanted it... the usa under Obama wanted it...


The UK public and rest of eu nations public definitely didn't want it... and had it not been exposed, and strongly opposed, it would have been imposed!!!



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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:04 pm

it wasn't secret down here
although there are plenty of people that never paid enough attention
and it started official negotiations in 2008
And neither the UK or EU was invited (you were part of the EU back then and it is part a response to that trading Block) Nor was China, that was another part of having US support it was meant to 'contain' the economic threat of China.
https://www.usasean.org/regions/tpp/about
The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is a 21st century, high standard, comprehensive regional free trade agreement (FTA) among 12 countries:  Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States, and Vietnam.

Now we are replacing the US with China, so we will see what the new fine print is. We can expect some Changes if China is to join.

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:01 am

Idea

The reason that Britain and Europe started taken an interest in discussions over the bad parts of the TPP (those parts giving more rights to big multinational corporations),  would have been when they recognised the same ramifications if they signed off on the separate, but similar, Trans Atlantic agreement that was being discussed between the US and Europe..

In a likewise manner, it also had clauses that would have enabled large corporations to screw over foreign governments, local communities, and the environment.     Arrow

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by The Devil, You Know on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:43 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/why-the-us-withdrawal-from-the-transpacific-partnership-could-be-bad-for-australia/news-story/661c9bffc7bf9c58023299248ca9aea7


THE withdrawal of the US from the Trans-Pacific Partnership will be a huge blow to some Australian producers but its biggest impact could be to relations in the Asia-Pacific.

With the stroke of his pen and a smile, US President Donald Trump lived up to his promise of killing the TPP between America, Australia, New Zealand and nine other Pacific nations.

The agreement was originally billed as the gold-standard in free trade deals and a strategy to blunt China’s dominance in the Asia-Pacific.

But just three days after the TPP’s champion, former president Barack Obama, moved out of the White House, Mr Trump signed the executive order to withdraw the US from the TPP.

It is a major blow to Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull as the TPP was the key plank of the nation’s trade policy.

“Everyone knows what that means, right?” Mr Trump said at the signing ceremony.

“We’ve been talking about this for a long time. It’s a great thing for the American worker.”

A slimmed down TPP, without the US, could emerge, although China is expected to move in and fill the hole left by America. China was not invited to join the TPP and had already been negotiating its own rival deal, the RCEP.

The TPP was between the US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Singapore, Mexico, Chile, Vietnam, Peru, Brunei and Malaysia.


Australian Trade Minster Steven Ciobo, who is in the US, said on the weekend he had been speaking with remaining TPP nations “on ways to lock in the benefits from the TPP” without US involvement.

Negotiations began more than eight years ago and Australia’s prime ministers during the period — Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott and Mr Turnbull — all threw their support behind it.

The deal was signed last year and was in the process of being ratified. That looks unlikely to happen now that the US has pulled out.

heaps of good analysis at source.

here is jabba the hutt protesting the Trans-Pacific Partnership



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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Eh?
That is Michael Moore.
Jabba the Hut is a fictional Character from Star Wars

See, fake news in action again

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Re: the TTP without Trump

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:46 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Idea

The reason that Britain and Europe started taken an interest in discussions over the bad parts of the TPP (those parts giving more rights to big multinational corporations),  would have been when they recognised the same ramifications if they signed off on the separate, but similar, Trans Atlantic agreement that was being discussed between the US and Europe..

In a likewise manner, it also had clauses that would have enabled large corporations to screw over foreign governments, local communities, and the environment.     Arrow


That is why us sensible people in uk were completely against it!!!


And why we are against the eu who were ready to secretly sell us out to it!!!


But some idiots here are still supporters of this devious and corrupt eu that tried to fuck us over in such a despicable way...

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