Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

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Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:54 am

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On Wednesday night I interviewed Liberal Party MP Ken Wyatt for 7.30.

The first Indigenous person to present a prime time national news and current affairs program for ABC television and the first Indigenous person to be appointed as a Federal Government Minister.

This shouldn't be remarkable but I suppose it is. The fact that it has taken until 2017 makes it so.

But beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should this really matter?

I don't think so. I deliberately avoided dwelling on Mr Wyatt's personal achievement beyond a quick note of congratulations.

What was far more interesting to me was how he came to his promotion

Mr Wyatt has been appointed Minister for Aged Care and Indigenous Health as part of a reshuffle forced by the resignation of former health minister Susan Ley.

Two weeks into the year and the Government had suffered its first scandal and setback.

He is part of a Government that is struggling in the polls, is at war with itself, and has started the year on the back foot.

I wanted to ask him about how politicians can restore the faith and trust of an increasingly sceptical electorate; I wanted to ask him if his celebration is tempered by Ms Ley's resignation; I wanted to ask him why former prime minister Tony Abbott — a man Mr Wyatt has praised for his commitment to Indigenous affairs — continues to languish on the backbench, again passed over by Malcolm Turnbull.

What I did not want to ask is how he felt about being the first Indigenous anything.

I wouldn't ask Arthur Sinodinos how he feels about representing Greek Australians or Julie Bishop how she feels about representing women. I wouldn't presume that a gay MP speaks for homosexuals.

Mr Wyatt is a federal Minister — he is there to be held accountable. He is there to represent all Australians.

Yet, predictably, so much of the focus has been on Mr Wyatt's Indigenous identity. Immediately there was media speculation about when, and if, he should be appointed Indigenous affairs minister.

Really? Why not foreign minister or defence minister or education minister or treasurer — while I am at it, why not prime minister?

Why the assumption that identifying as Indigenous means he has the answers for all that plagues first nation's peoples in Australia?

Mr Wyatt comes from an Indigenous community in a particular part of Western Australia — what does he know about Indigenous people in outer Melbourne or southern Queensland? What is this assumption that Indigenous people somehow share the same struggles, think the same or vote the same?

As a senior Indigenous voice in Parliament I did ask Mr Wyatt about the push for Indigenous recognition in the constitution or a treaty; I did ask him about Indigenous health outcomes — a situation that is largely getting worse not better. This is his job now.

I do not assume he speaks for all Indigenous people and I certainly don't assume all Indigenous people are going to agree with him.

The Indigenous population is diverse and dynamic. The great majority live in urban cities and towns; the great majority are of mixed heritage and the majority are married to non-Indigenous people.

The Aboriginal middle class is growing at a rate much faster than the comparable white middle class. The number of Indigenous university graduates is far higher — three or four times higher — than the number of Indigenous people in prisons.


Mr Wyatt is on the Government frontbench to do a job — it is a critical job. If he does it well, he saves lives — if he doesn't, he should be scrutinised and criticised like any other government minister.

He has broken a barrier. We won't break the next one — Australia's first Indigenous prime minister — if we think being Indigenous is the most interesting thing about us.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-19/stan-grant-heritage-aside-should-being-indigenous-really-matter/8195420

Video At source..

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:08 pm

Rolling Eyes

Fuck off being such a racist prat,  Didge...

You lost the argument hours ago, you pathetic reptitive little ratbag..


Are you so stupidly  thick,  that you  don't even realise how racist a nong you're being ?


If you're trying to impress the hardcore racists like Nems, Raggs and Syl, you're certainly going down the right track..

Stop being such a dictatorial and clueless bastard without a solid argument !.. Arrow

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:04 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Rolling Eyes

Fuck off being such a racist prat,  Didge...

You lost the argument hours ago, you pathetic reptitive little ratbag..


Are you so stupidly  thick,  that you  don't even realise how racist a nong you're being ?


If you're trying to impress the hardcore racists like Nems, Raggs and Syl, you're certainly going down the right track..

Stop being such a dictatorial and clueless bastard without a solid argument !..     Arrow






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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:40 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Rolling Eyes

Fuck off being such a racist prat,  Didge...

You lost the argument hours ago, you pathetic reptitive little ratbag..


Are you so stupidly  thick,  that you  don't even realise how racist a nong you're being ?


If you're trying to impress the hardcore racists like Nems, Raggs and Syl, you're certainly going down the right track..

Stop being such a dictatorial and clueless bastard without a solid argument !..     Arrow

When are you going to stop being a hardcore idiot? If you want to rage and scream all over the forum, kindly keep me out of it.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Syl on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:46 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Rolling Eyes

Fuck off being such a racist prat,  Didge...

You lost the argument hours ago, you pathetic reptitive little ratbag..


Are you so stupidly  thick,  that you  don't even realise how racist a nong you're being ?


If you're trying to impress the hardcore racists like Nems, Raggs and Syl, you're certainly going down the right track..

Stop being such a dictatorial and clueless bastard without a solid argument !..     Arrow

When are you going to stop being a hardcore idiot? If you want to rage and scream all over the forum, kindly keep me out of it.

And me. Wink
You have got more racist bile in your little finger than I have in my whole body....think on that before you drag my name into your rants in future....dickhead.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:24 pm

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Do they even live in Australia?
I doubt it?  or they would think you are dickhead too.
No one holds YOUR views down here. In fact I have been debating it elsewhere.

and you have My side the PRO-reconciliation side that says
Australia day is 'invasion day' or at best "New South Wales Day"   and out of respect we should change it to that date of federation.

OR you have the anti reconciliation side (white privileged side) that says it is Australia day and the Aboriginals should just be grateful (Sounds like you actually)


anyone that lives here knows the stuff you posted is nonsense.  because if they have any interest in the aboriginals at all they know all the geographic distributions and populations. Yes a few group of a few hundred in Extremely isolated places say they want sovereignty, until coming to understand all that entails. then they are happy with forming a tribal land corporation which the gives then Fiscal control and ownership just like a corporation that bought a block of land.

1) You have repeated you do not believe me. I dont care and is misdirection, my family is massive and is all over the world. I have cousins in Australia and friends

2) Its not up to you to decide what Australia day is. You are by doing so denying the rights of thousands of Australians who have died as being classed as Australians. What right have you to do that?

3) Here we go again, how can it be nonsense when a group of aborigines want self determination? You are saying they cannot have this because others do not want this. So that does not make me wrong at all, it just shows you again are being prejudiced towards those that want self determination. You have no right to decide for them. So you clearly have no interest in the Aborigines that want to have self determination and wrongly think you can decide their fate

OK I am giving you an OFFICIAL WARNING
because by number 2 YOU are not interested in Current Aboriginal reconciliation politics at all
SO stop posting IF you are not interested in the topic.

You have ruined a number of thread now posting you ignorant racist bile
Seriously Give me one reason and you are gone

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:40 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:

1) You have repeated you do not believe me. I dont care and is misdirection, my family is massive and is all over the world. I have cousins in Australia and friends

2) Its not up to you to decide what Australia day is. You are by doing so denying the rights of thousands of Australians who have died as being classed as Australians. What right have you to do that?

3) Here we go again, how can it be nonsense when a group of aborigines want self determination? You are saying they cannot have this because others do not want this. So that does not make me wrong at all, it just shows you again are being prejudiced towards those that want self determination. You have no right to decide for them. So you clearly have no interest in the Aborigines that want to have self determination and wrongly think you can decide their fate

OK I am giving you an OFFICIAL WARNING
because by number 2 YOU are not interested in Current Aboriginal reconciliation politics at all
SO stop posting IF you are not interested in the topic.

You have ruined a number of thread now posting you ignorant racist bile
Seriously Give me one reason and you are gone

Sorry but that is a false perception, when I am interested in the self determination of all groups of people
I am also going to challenge this warning you have made to the rest of the admin team, as I believe it is unjust, based on your views of me. Where you have created a wrong perception of my views
Where again you falsely charge me with racism and this has to stop. The point on my second point is that by you stating when Australia became a nation, anyone born before his time would be denied as being classed as Australian citizens, those descended from the settlers. The first generation born to the settlers should be classed as citizens of Australia, as it is with any nation today and that any indigenous also should be classed Australian. By setting a date you are denying many who have died the right to be classed as Australian citizens

I myself for the record apologies for calling you an antisemite, but this is beyond a joke. I would like to have an impartial decision on this, as I do not believe you are being impartial due to our track record. All I want is some debate and this is unjust to make such charges onto me
So if the admin team deem I have ruined this thread, which i want you to take up with them
I will then take my official warning


Last edited by Thorin on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:57 pm

I'm not Impartial that true
Maybe IF you do have relatives down here ask them
What sort of Whiteman Worships the rainbow serpent?

Cause They will tell you "only a rabid aboriginal rights campaigner would".

SO please do stop this nonsense You don't understand any of the issue to the point I cannot debate them with you, The fact YOU don't KNOW that Australia day is the Biggest current issue (being in 5 days time and this happens every year THIS year we have some momentum) basically sums up why IF you support Aboriginals having a better life You need to shut up and listen sometimes.

I have already Told you you have hit a nerve, because this is something I REALLY CAMPAIGN FOR!!! I'm not just a keyboard warrior and to see you must post nonsense is really pissing me off.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:05 pm

veya_victaous wrote:I'm not Impartial that true
Maybe IF you do have relatives down here ask them
What sort of Whiteman Worships the rainbow serpent?

Cause They will tell you "only a rabid aboriginal rights campaigner would".

SO please do stop this nonsense You don't understand any of the issue to the point I cannot debate them with you, The fact YOU don't KNOW that Australia day is the Biggest current issue (being in 5 days time and this happens every year THIS year we have some momentum) basically sums up why IF you support Aboriginals having a better life You need to shut up and listen sometimes.

I have already Told you you have hit a nerve, because this is something I REALLY CAMPAIGN FOR!!! I'm not just a keyboard warrior and to see you must post nonsense is really pissing me off.

That is just your perception Veya
My view is this on Australia day.
To me any of those first born to the first and ongoing settlers in Australia or those sent as prisoners, should be classed as Australian. Just as is the case today when anyone is born to any nation. No matter if their parents are foreign. Hence why am both English and British being born here, and also of Maltese, Sicilian and Irish ethnicity. If you set a later date in history many of those born in Australia from European, Asian or Arab etc descendants are then denied Australian status. To me that is fundamentally wrong.

I am passionate about many things, but for you to charge me with racism because I back the right of a minority of Aborigines to have self determination is wrong on every level. I have not demeaned anything you have done but disagree with your stance on the minority of aborigines who want self determination. To say that makes me racist is a complete falsehood and you are doing this because you are wrongly failing to understand my view. I am sure you have done great work, i don't deny it, yet you denied me having family or friends there. How do you think that makes me feel? Just because we disagree on a issue does not give you the right to call me racist, just as it does not with me to you.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:45 pm

that's not the issue at all, we can move Australia day. there plenty of less divisive dates.
It is not accurate anyway it is either as the Aboriginals view it 'Invasion day' or it is 'New South Wales day' Since that is the colony that was formed on that day.


Australia Day is the official National Day of Australia. Celebrated annually on 26 January, it marks the anniversary of the 1788 arrival of the First Fleet of British Ships at Port Jackson, New South Wales, and the raising of the Flag of Great Britain at Sydney Cove by Governor Arthur Phillip.

it doesn't really support Multiculturalism either.




But besides that all the self determination stuff is done to the extent that anyone that doesn't live in an isolated desert community understands in beneficial and not detrimental

YES some ass wank documentary maker can go into these communities and convince them they want 'self determination' but it wont bring back the past and will cut them off from the future.

cause after the ass wank leaves and people explain OK but that means you are no longer entitled to our hospitals, roads, education, government housing, pensions or grants. they don't want it any more. let alone the legal protection that force telecommunications and power providers to supply the area even though it is unprofitable. they lose all that

Because the FAR MORE SENSIBLE method of giving them 'self determination' was established in the 1975 when the government(Whitlam) forced Lord Vestey to Surrender the lands Stolen by English royals and unjustly given to his family back to the Gurindji people. By Legal method of 'the Muramulla Gurindji Co.' essentially a Corporation where all the Gurindji people are share holders. 'the Muramulla Gurindji Co.' currently own about 3236 square kilometers of their traditional lands again.

That is the First of Many 'Aboriginal land Councils' that legally hold the returned traditional lands for their peoples.
This method is far more modern and allows for a much easier legal transition and they remain Australians and all the legal protection and services that entails. It also prevents other nations from ripping them off, which is What most Aussie suspect is the real motivation behind a lot of this foreign pushed 'self determination' Since those deserts are full of resources worth billions, now it is up to the aboriginal land corporations to lease out land (if they wish) to the miners.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:56 pm

1) I am not speaking about how the Aboriginals view the day, to them they have been there for 50,000 years. So in reality that should be the date and anyone born to the land is thus Australian. So both the dates set by what is in effect dates around the descendants of Europeans is wrong. Australian day should be celebrated based off when first people were living on the lands, 50, 000 years ago. Other wise as I say you end up denying those long dead being classed as Australian citizens who were born to the lands.

2) One of my best friends is native American Indian, who now resides in the UK, She strongly believes in the cultures of her people and has also adapted western cultures. She also believes in the self determination of her people in the US. This has nothing to do with documentaries but preserving her peoples culture, way of life and history. You are wrongly perceiving that it is westerners who are persuading Aboriginals to want their own self determination. This is coming as documented from a minority of them. So what is so wrong for them to want this?

3) Again that is your perception as to what is best, but have you actually asked those who want self determination, as to what they want? That to me would be the starting point. Its no good saying as to what you think is best, but to ask those whether they think is best. Even if its just a few hundred that want to maintain a certain way of life. Why is it so wrong to not even talk to them and find a way forward? So I am sure you and others think differently on this including many Aborigines, but this is about those who want to have their own way of life that is more self maintained.

Anyway, I have said my peace on this

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:02 pm

it is not MY perception, unless you think being without everything is good
YES i have fucking talked to them, what part do you not understand More Aboriginals Live in the region I have spent my whole life up until a few weeks ago than anywhere else!!

UNLESS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS in which case i go back to the fact YOU ARE NOT DOING IT IN THE UK because it is Stupid and unrealistic


Maybe you should read the article
Stan Grant is the First Aboriginal to be on TV in a serious manner he has every right to say it AND you have NO right to question his opinion, with YOUR very poor perceptions of what is right.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:09 pm

veya_victaous wrote:it is not MY perception, unless you think being without everything is good
YES i have fucking talked to them, what part do you not understand More Aboriginals Live in the region I have spent my whole life up until a few weeks ago than anywhere else!!

UNLESS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS in which case i go back to the fact YOU ARE NOT DOING IT IN THE UK because it is Stupid and unrealistic  


Maybe you should read the article
Stan Grant is the First Aboriginal to be on TV in a serious manner he has every right to say it AND you have NO right to question his opinion, with YOUR very poor perceptions of what is right.

Sorry but everyone has a right to an opinion and whether to disagree on issues Veya
Its called freedom of speech and expression
I have not read or listened to him, so I cannot make any comments on him, but he is just one individual himself. I am sure he makes great points, but again he does not speak for everyone, but will ensure to take time to research him further. Like I say, I think we have exhausted this and are simply not going to agree.
Hence why I shall leave it as that.

Thank you for a better debate this evening.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:30 am

Laughing

EVERYONE should have a good look at doddery Thorin's claims and agendas here...

Dodge wants the Aussie Aboriginals to be forced to kowtow to foreign agitators pushing a radical policy supported by less than 15% of the actual Aboriginal population down here --  and when called out on this despotic idiocy, Didge then accuse veya and me of racism, totalitarianism, and other stupid and fallacious claims..

Dodger wants our Aboriginals to be disenfranchised, rounded up, and shipped ot to their own little self-administered nation --  when it's pointed out that the great majority don't want this, Dodge says it doesn't matter  --  he reckons he knows better than anyone down here (including our own indigenous fols !),  and Didgerii than backs up his claim with one outdated UN committee report..

When pressured further, Dodger Thorin than states that he has "friends and family" over here --  apparently, having someone you know of in Oz now gives someone that magical powering of learning all about a situation through sheer Osmosis --  a bit like that wimpy little brat in primary school, claiming that he knows all about the law, because his dad's a policeman..

And when Thorin falls over at the first hurdle, he inevitably falls back onto claiming that he won the debate anyway, and throwing insults and namecalling around with his wild dummyspits... afro

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:06 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

EVERYONE should have a good look at  Thorin



I deleted out all the abuse, attacks, repeated false accusations, repeated lies and that is what you was left with.
Nothing of substance
When you engage and act like an adult and stop making false unfounded claims
Then we will continue, until then I will treat you like a schoolkid and mark/edit your posts to reflect relevance

That was an F

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