Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

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Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:54 am

On Wednesday night I interviewed Liberal Party MP Ken Wyatt for 7.30.

The first Indigenous person to present a prime time national news and current affairs program for ABC television and the first Indigenous person to be appointed as a Federal Government Minister.

This shouldn't be remarkable but I suppose it is. The fact that it has taken until 2017 makes it so.

But beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should this really matter?

I don't think so. I deliberately avoided dwelling on Mr Wyatt's personal achievement beyond a quick note of congratulations.

What was far more interesting to me was how he came to his promotion

Mr Wyatt has been appointed Minister for Aged Care and Indigenous Health as part of a reshuffle forced by the resignation of former health minister Susan Ley.

Two weeks into the year and the Government had suffered its first scandal and setback.

He is part of a Government that is struggling in the polls, is at war with itself, and has started the year on the back foot.

I wanted to ask him about how politicians can restore the faith and trust of an increasingly sceptical electorate; I wanted to ask him if his celebration is tempered by Ms Ley's resignation; I wanted to ask him why former prime minister Tony Abbott — a man Mr Wyatt has praised for his commitment to Indigenous affairs — continues to languish on the backbench, again passed over by Malcolm Turnbull.

What I did not want to ask is how he felt about being the first Indigenous anything.

I wouldn't ask Arthur Sinodinos how he feels about representing Greek Australians or Julie Bishop how she feels about representing women. I wouldn't presume that a gay MP speaks for homosexuals.

Mr Wyatt is a federal Minister — he is there to be held accountable. He is there to represent all Australians.

Yet, predictably, so much of the focus has been on Mr Wyatt's Indigenous identity. Immediately there was media speculation about when, and if, he should be appointed Indigenous affairs minister.

Really? Why not foreign minister or defence minister or education minister or treasurer — while I am at it, why not prime minister?

Why the assumption that identifying as Indigenous means he has the answers for all that plagues first nation's peoples in Australia?

Mr Wyatt comes from an Indigenous community in a particular part of Western Australia — what does he know about Indigenous people in outer Melbourne or southern Queensland? What is this assumption that Indigenous people somehow share the same struggles, think the same or vote the same?

As a senior Indigenous voice in Parliament I did ask Mr Wyatt about the push for Indigenous recognition in the constitution or a treaty; I did ask him about Indigenous health outcomes — a situation that is largely getting worse not better. This is his job now.

I do not assume he speaks for all Indigenous people and I certainly don't assume all Indigenous people are going to agree with him.

The Indigenous population is diverse and dynamic. The great majority live in urban cities and towns; the great majority are of mixed heritage and the majority are married to non-Indigenous people.

The Aboriginal middle class is growing at a rate much faster than the comparable white middle class. The number of Indigenous university graduates is far higher — three or four times higher — than the number of Indigenous people in prisons.


Mr Wyatt is on the Government frontbench to do a job — it is a critical job. If he does it well, he saves lives — if he doesn't, he should be scrutinised and criticised like any other government minister.

He has broken a barrier. We won't break the next one — Australia's first Indigenous prime minister — if we think being Indigenous is the most interesting thing about us.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-19/stan-grant-heritage-aside-should-being-indigenous-really-matter/8195420

Video At source..

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:56 am

Real Aboriginals Telling it how it is.. Don't believe the British Propaganda that they all Black fellas in the desert hunting Goanna.
Wink

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:02 am

Cool

Over 80% of Oz's 600,000+ indigenous fellas live in and around the cities...

Most of that remaining 20% live in around country towns and 400+ Aboriginal " communities"..

Only a very small proportion choose to "go bush", live out on the fringes, or "go walkabout".


And yet foreign agitators would take away the Aboriginals' rights to choose, round them up, grant them a "nation within a nation" of their own, force on them an illusory "self determination" championed by a clueless UN committee, headed by a Brazilian academic..

Instead of helping our Aboriginals attain more recognition within the Constitution, and improve their lot overall, those foreign-based stirrers would rather diminish what gains have already been made, and take the Indigenous Aussies back to where they were 50 or 60 years ago ??? Suspect


Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:02 am

So you are saying one person speaks for indigenous now do you?

I think not

He is entitled to his beliefs and views, just as others are

Here is he difference between you and I

I back the right of self determination

You Veya wish to impose identities on some people who do not wish to have them

That is Totalitarianism

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:03 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Over 80% of Oz's 600,000+ indigenous fellas live in and around the cities...

Most of that remaining 20% live in around country towns and 400+ Aboriginal " communities"..

Only a very small proportion choose to "go bush", live out on the fringes, or "go walkabout".


So does that give you the right to deny the rest the self determination they wish for?

No.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:12 am

Thorin wrote:So you are saying one person speaks for indigenous now do you?

I think not

He is entitled to his beliefs and views, just as others are

Here is he difference between you and I

I back the right of self determination

You Veya wish to impose identities on some people who do not wish to have them

That is Totalitarianism

Razz

No Dodgery...

You support foreign-based interventionist policy that only a small percentage of Aboriginals want..

Well over 85% of indigenous folks don't want your narrow-minded foreign interventionist Apartheid model being forced onto them by an unelected and irrelevant UN committee..


YOU'RE the one supporting Totalitarian foreign-based interventionist actions..   Suspect

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:15 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Thorin wrote:So you are saying one person speaks for indigenous now do you?

I think not

He is entitled to his beliefs and views, just as others are

Here is he difference between you and I

I back the right of self determination

You Veya wish to impose identities on some people who do not wish to have them

That is Totalitarianism


No Dodgery...

You support foreign-based interventionist policy that only a small percentage of Aboriginals want..

Well over 85% of indigenous folks don't want your narrow-minded foreign interventionist Apartheid model being forced onto them by an unelected and irrelevant UN committee..


Really?

So self determination, the very thing Aussies have is foreign based interventionist policy is it?
Where I defend the right of self determination and you claim the biggest load opf regressive clap trap in comparable to apartheid?

Stop wasting my time with your ignorance

Backing  the right of self determination is a basic human right you imbecile

Article 1 of both Covenants

The right to self-determination is contained in article 1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and in article 1 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

Article 1 of both Covenants states:

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.
The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.


https://www.humanrights.gov.au/right-self-determination

[

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:37 am

YES didge really.

the rest of your post is Rubbish
because The FACT is 85% are proud Aussies

Please STFU about topic s you clearly know nothing about.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:YES didge really.

the rest of your post is Rubbish
because The FACT is 85% are proud Aussies

Please STFU about topic s you clearly know nothing about.


So you are basically forcing your views onto the other 15%

Denying self determination

Denying their basic human rights

I know I am faced with two racist Aussie's who think they can impose their views onto a percentage of the indigenous, none of which they have back up with any facts



Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

The right to self determination as it applies to indigenous peoples is explained further in Article 3 of the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
The Declaration also informs understanding of how other existing rights specifically apply to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. 
This was acknowledged on behalf of the Australian Government by the Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs in her speech on behalf of the Australian Government marking Australia’s formal endorsement of the Declaration:
“Australia’s existing international obligations are mirrored in the Declaration”. 
Australia's response to the Universal Periodic Review recommendations in June 2011 stated that the Australian Government supports promotion of and respect for the principles in the Declaration.
Accordingly

  • the Declaration informs the way Australian governments should engage with and protect the rights of Aboriginal and Indigenous people 

  • Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples should be closely involved in the development and implementation of policies and programs that impact on them.

  • This should include ensuring that they have the opportunity to participate in the making of such decisions through the processes of democratic government, and are able to exercise meaningful control over their affairs.


Self determination and native title

The Commission has particular responsibilities for monitoring and reporting on the operation of the system for recognition of native title in view of the significant of land and sea rights for the effective realisation of the rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples to self determination. Click here for more on the Commission and native title including

  • Native Title Reports 1994 - 

  • Submissions focussing on Native Title Issues by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner

  • Corporate Responsibility: Developing Human Rights Principles for resource development on Aboriginal Land


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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:41 am

Thorin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Over 80% of Oz's 600,000+ indigenous fellas live in and around the cities...

Most of that remaining 20% live in around country towns and 400+ Aboriginal " communities"..

Only a very small proportion choose to "go bush", live out on the fringes, or "go walkabout".


So does that give you the right to deny the rest the self determination they wish for?

No.

Wait SO by your logic
Tommy and that should be able to have their own laws?
they should be able to self determine that?

All those People that Did NOT vote Trump Should be allowed to self determine that HE is NOT the president?

You are an A grade Moron who apparently hates democracy Razz Razz Razz Razz

Please Come back to Us when the UK is broken up into every little group that wants something different... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:44 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So does that give you the right to deny the rest the self determination they wish for?

No.

Wait SO by your logic
Tommy and that should be able to have their own laws?
they should be able to self determine that?

All those People that Did NOT vote Trump Should be allowed to self determine that HE is NOT the president?

You are an A grade Moron who apparently hates democracy Razz Razz Razz Razz

Please Come back to Us when the UK is broken up into every little group that wants something different... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Tommy does have his own laws, as he is British

If he wishes to vote for a separate English people

I would back his right to do so

If Quill and the rest of California wishes to vote for self determination, I support their right to do so

When it comes to the aborigines, you think you can tell them what to do

That equates to Totalitarianism

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:45 am

until the UK is split up and EVERY individual that wants to stay in the EU has the 'right to self determination' and Every individual that want to leave has the 'right to self determination'

STFU
your argument is not based in logic or reason AT ALL
it is a Wolf said a Foreigners policy, one that believe the Stupid British Propaganda that Aboriginals are not integrated into the rest of the community.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:47 am

scratch

DODGE just keep on painting himself into a smaller and smaller corner...

He wants to give a small portion of the Aboriginal sector of the Aussie population their own country-within-a-country, that they could look after for themselves ?

Even then, how many of that 60-90,000 individuals would choose to relocate to that idyllic little "self determination" community, when they realise what it meant ?

What about policing, military defence, education and health services, welfare payments ?
Who pays for that..


Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:47 am

veya_victaous wrote:until the UK is split up and EVERY individual that wants to stay in the EU has the 'right to self determination' and Every individual that want to leave has the 'right to self determination'

STFU
your argument is not based in logic or reason AT ALL
it is a Wolf said a Foreigners policy, one that believe the Stupid British Propaganda that Aboriginals are not integrated into the rest of the community.


We are talking about peoples
Ethnic groups or indigenous peoples

There is only the English, the Welsh, the Scottish and Northern Irish as groups to consider if they want further self determination. All already have some form of self determination through local Governments

My argument is based on a basic human rights

Yours is based on a warped Aussie based sharia law, imposing your views

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:49 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: scratch

DODGE just keep on painting himself into a smaller and smaller corner...

He wants to give a small portion of the Aboriginal sector of the Aussie population their own country-within-a-country, that they could look after for themselves ?

Even then, how many of that 60-90,000 individuals would choose to relocate to that idyllic little "self determination" community, when they realise what it meant ?

What about policing, military defence, education and health services, welfare payments ?

Who paysmfor that..


They have this in America for the indigenous

So why can it not be done for the aborigines?

The Australian government will pay in retribution payments

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:53 am

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:until the UK is split up and EVERY individual that wants to stay in the EU has the 'right to self determination' and Every individual that want to leave has the 'right to self determination'

STFU
your argument is not based in logic or reason AT ALL
it is a Wolf said a Foreigners policy, one that believe the Stupid British Propaganda that Aboriginals are not integrated into the rest of the community.


We are talking about peoples
Ethnic groups or indigenous peoples

There is only the English, the Welsh, the Scottish and Northern Irish as groups to consider if they want further self determination. All already have some form of self determination through local Governments

My argument is based on a basic human rights

Yours is based on a warped Aussie based sharia law, imposing your views

Rolling Eyes

YOU really are losing the plot, didgery Thorin Dodger...

There is no "sharia" law in Australia..

Australian law is a blend of British Law and "natural law", evolved and constanly adapting to suit ever-changing conditions..


Why do you keep on disrespecting the wishes of those half million plus Aboriginals, that you would disenfranchise, only to forcibly impose your unwelcome minority ideology on them

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:56 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Thorin wrote:


We are talking about peoples
Ethnic groups or indigenous peoples

There is only the English, the Welsh, the Scottish and Northern Irish as groups to consider if they want further self determination. All already have some form of self determination through local Governments

My argument is based on a basic human rights

Yours is based on a warped Aussie based sharia law, imposing your views

Rolling Eyes

YOU really are losing the plot, didgery Thorin Dodger...

There is no "sharia" law in Australi..

Australian law is a blend of British Law and "natural law", evolved and constanly adapting to suit ever-changing conditions..


Why dou you keep on disrespecting the wishes of those half million plus Aboriginals, that you would disenfranchise to impose your unwelcome ideology on them

1) From a regressive imbicille, who keeps telling me the same thing

2) There is a form of it from you two, wishing to impose your beliefs onto aborigines, denying them self determination. You have your rights to be apart of Australia, but you wish to force this onto everyone else

That is totalitarianism, just like sharia law

3) I know what Australian law is and i am not disrespecting any aborigines who want to be apart of that. This is their choice. I though back the rights of those who wish to have self determination, which you, want to deny them the pathetic low life that you are

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:58 am

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:until the UK is split up and EVERY individual that wants to stay in the EU has the 'right to self determination' and Every individual that want to leave has the 'right to self determination'

STFU
your argument is not based in logic or reason AT ALL
it is a Wolf said a Foreigners policy, one that believe the Stupid British Propaganda that Aboriginals are not integrated into the rest of the community.


We are talking about peoples
Ethnic groups or indigenous peoples

There is only the English, the Welsh, the Scottish and Northern Irish as groups to consider if they want further self determination. All already have some form of self determination through local Governments

My argument is based on a basic human rights

Yours is based on a warped Aussie based sharia law, imposing your views

Yeah so You just keep PROVING me and Wolf right

Here some Reading Maybe you will strop being so Discriminatory


Aboriginal Identity: Who is ‘Aboriginal’?


People who identify themselves as ‘Aboriginal’ range from dark-skinned, broad-nosed to blonde-haired, blue-eyed people.
Aboriginal people define Aboriginality not by skin colour but by relationships.

Light-skinned Aboriginal people often face challenges on their Aboriginal identity because of stereotyping.

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/aboriginal-identity-who-is-aboriginal

Where Aboriginal people live

Contrary to what many people think (and to the stereotype of Australian advertising) the majority of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people live in Australia’s eastern states and not in the remote desert regions of the continent [1].


Myth: Most Aboriginal people live in the outback

In 2006 the majority (75%) of Aboriginal people lived in cities and non-remote areas. 32% lived in major cities, 21% in inner regional areas and 22% in outer regional areas. Contrary to what is commonly believed, only a quarter lived in remote (9%) and very remote (15%) areas [9].

90% of Aboriginal people live in areas covering 25% of Australia, while 90% of non-Aboriginal people live in the most densely populated 2.6% of the continent [6].


Fact Of any single region in Australia, western Sydney has the highest concentration of Aboriginal people. According to the census, around 2 million people were living in greater western Sydney in 2006. A little more than 25,000 of them identified as Aboriginal descent. [12]
Ohh yeah that's WHERE I COME FROM TOO, the place isn't called Blacktown for no reason.

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/aboriginal-population-in-australia



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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:01 am

And Because You seem to think You are Saying something NEW. that doesn't already exists. That is YOUR biggest problem Your a 'progressive' for progress that was achieved decades ago AND not throw the shitty Brow beating you engage in. Ironically YOU try and force people to do what YOU believe in the Exact Same brow beating manner as Abrahamist.

Self-determination: issues and problems

Family-run dynasties

Family-run dynasties within some Aboriginal communities can weaken Aboriginal self-determination. They pretend to be community-controlled but are not operating within the strict community-controlled organisation guidelines [5].

Some Aboriginal communities have established a two-class system in health, housing and education where the preferred class gets quick access to programs and services while the other class has to join a waiting list [5].

Service providers renounce responsibility

Some service providers misuse the push for self-determination as their way out of responsibility.

They took self-determination as ‘permission’ to either abandon or ignore their responsibilities, arguing that under self-determination it was ‘inappropriate’ for them to be involved. Aboriginal health became an ‘Aboriginal problem’ that mainstream services appeared to be absolved from [9].

Clashing with the law

As more and more Aboriginal people work out what self-determination means for them in detail, some of their choices clash with the law of state and territory governments.

Murrumu Walubara Yidindji (formerly known as Jeremy Geia) has renounced his Australian citizenship and returned his passport, Medicare card and driver’s licence. He quit his job, gave away most possessions and walked away from his bank savings and a superannuation account built up over two decades. His car bears number plates “licensed to the sovereign Yidindji government” [12] (reading “Yidindji - YID-001 - Pursuant to Yidindji Tribal Law”), challenging police who have never seen such a situation.

Murrumu was subsequently charged with driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle with false plates, driving without a licence while possessing “an article resembling a licence”. [13]

Gary Tomlinson, also known by his tribal name Wit Boooka, faced a week in jail after refusing to recognise state law that forced him to provide fingerprints and DNA evidence for a charge of trespass. [14]

Only after he was allowed to sign using his tribal name, and that his agreement to the bail conditions did not imply any concession that Queensland law had any legitimate power over him, was Boooka spared a week in jail.

So As you have been Told STFU.. cause You don't know shit


Last edited by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:01 am

lol from the same website which backs me up

Thank you


Self-determination is a term used to describe that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people take matters into their own hands.


https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/selfdetermination/


What an own goal by Veya, proving its you discriminating

I am not against any Aborigines residing whether they want to be part of Australia or have self determination

You are the one deciding they have to do as you do

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:03 am

[size=32]When started Aboriginal self-determination in Australia?[/size]

The first expression of Aboriginal self-determination is usually said to be in 1972 when the Whitlam government abolished the White Australia Policy and introduced a policy of self-determination.
But 50 years before that Aboriginal activists already lobbied for self-determination when they formed the Australian Aboriginal Progressive Association (AAPA) in April 1925 [6].
The AAPA drew inspiration from the ideology and tactics of Marcus Garvey’s Universal Negro Improvement Association [11], founded 1914 in Africa and 1917 in the US.
Presided by Fred Maynard, the AAPA made front page news with headlines like “Aborigines In Conference—Self Determination Is Their Aim—To Help A People”.
The AAPA attracted widespread support from Aboriginal communities and established 11 branches with a membership of more than 500 at a time when the Aboriginal Protection Board reported the total Aboriginal population of NSW as less than 7,000 [6].
In its manifesto the AAPA demanded [6]

  • 40 acres of land to be granted to each and every Aboriginal family in Australia,

  • to end the policy of child removal from their families by the Aboriginal Protection Board,

  • to replace the Aboriginal Protection Board by an all-Aboriginal body to oversee Aboriginal affairs,

  • citizenship for Aboriginal people within their own country,

  • a Royal Commission into Aboriginal affairs,

  • the federal government to take control of Aboriginal affairs, and

  • the right to protect a strong Aboriginal cultural identity.


[size=32]Aboriginal sovereignty[/size]

Sovereignty is a word that’s used a lot in discussions about Aboriginal issues. But what does it mean?

Definitions of sovereignty

Under current international law, sovereignty is defined as follows:
“Sovereignty in the sense of contemporary public international law denotes the basic international legal status of a state that is not subject, within its territorial jurisdiction, to the governmental, executive, legislative, or judicial jurisdiction of a foreign state or to foreign law other than public international law.” [16]
The Wikipedia defines sovereignty as “a state or a governing body [that] has the full right and power to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies” [3].
Sovereignty cannot ‘exist’, it can only be asserted, claimed or taken. If it is taken, this can be through conquest by a sovereign entity (after a war and subsequent treaty of surrender or complete destruction), cession (a sovereign entity cedes, through a treaty, part or all of its power to another sovereign entity) or settlement (a territory is completely uninhabited by people). [17]
Sovereignty is recognised reciprocally, meaning that sovereign entities (usually nations) recognise each other’s sovereignty.

Sovereignty vs self-determination

It can be difficult to distinguish the two terms. ‘Self-determination’ is a more loose word for ‘sovereignty’. Sometimes, it is used as an alternative, while other times it is used to describe a form of ‘limited sovereignty’ under the sovereign power of someone else. In international law, sovereignty is a more precise term than self-determination.

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/selfdetermination/

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:04 am

LOL
read the rest of the page Moron

lol! lol! lol! lol!

what YOU are supposedly telling us to do IS ALREADY DONE

unless you think every individual Gets to make an INDIVDUAL self determination.. In Which CASE the UK can do it first.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:05 am

READ IT !!!
moron that is from 1925
all that was done and dusted When We KICKED The British Lords out in the 1970's

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:07 am

The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) was adopted by the General Assembly on Thursday, 13 September 2007, by a majority of 144 states in favour, 4 votes against (Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States) and 11 abstentions (Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Burundi, Colombia, Georgia, Kenya, Nigeria, Russian Federation, Samoa and Ukraine).[1]
In May 2016 Canada officially removed its objector status to UNDRIP, almost a decade after it was adopted by the General Assembly. By now also the other 3 objectors have, to various degrees, turned their vote.
While as a General Assembly Declaration it is not a legally binding instrument under international law,[2] according to a UN press release, it does "represent the dynamic development of international legal norms and it reflects the commitment of the UN's member states to move in certain directions"; the UN describes it as setting "an important standard for the treatment of indigenous peoples that will undoubtedly be a significant tool towards eliminating human rights violations against the planet's 370 million indigenous people and assisting them in combating discrimination and marginalisation."
UNDRIP codifies "Indigenous historical grievances, contemporary challenges and socio-economic, political and cultural aspirations" and is the "culmination of generations-long efforts by Indigenous organizations to get international attention, to secure recognition for their aspirations, and to generate support for their political agendas."[3] Canada Research Chair and faculty member at the University of Saskatchewan,[4][5] Ken Coates, argues that UNDRIP resonates powerfully with Indigenous peoples, while national governments have not yet fully understood its impact.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_the_Rights_of_Indigenous_Peoples

Seems both wolf and veya are against people having human rights and self determination

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:13 am

•40 acres of land to be granted to each and every Aboriginal family in Australia,
There is NOW the Aboriginal land councils, I have posted the Song MULTIPULE FUCKIGN TIMES about Vincent Lingiari

•to end the policy of child removal from their families by the Aboriginal Protection Board,
AGAIN THAT ENDED so long ago that the last one taken are now retires


•to replace the Aboriginal Protection Board by an all-Aboriginal body to oversee Aboriginal affairs,
Done, undone and done again with some oversight to prevent Family dynasties that corrupted the original one, these are event I only Vaguely remember cause I was Under 10 at the time

•citizenship for Aboriginal people within their own country,
DO you really think they are not Citizens? how long ago do you think it is? Again this occured Long before I was born


•a Royal Commission into Aboriginal affairs,
there has been several in my life time alone there is now an Aboriginal as Minister of Aboriginal affairs, you know in the article You wrote off as one guys opinion... ( a leading Aboriginal right campaigner and you wrote him off an NOT AS IMPORTANT AS YOU)


•the federal government to take control of Aboriginal affairs, and
That why there is a Minister of Aboriginal affairs

•the right to protect a strong Aboriginal cultural identity.
YEP to the point they have Converted people like me TO THEIR RELIGION, recognizing THEIR culture as My Nations Original Culture, Their Histories as our history.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:17 am

Seem Didge Still doesn't Have a Clue
lol! lol! lol! lol!

Do you love making a fool of yourself or something?

The OP covers half the points and it is CLEALRY PAST tense too

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:18 am

Why are you responding to a copy and past from the website you posted?

Hilarious

All I did was post up parts on self determination

You need to read all of he link as well

Its hilarious though you used their website to back my stance and thus defeat your own

What you posted up was irrelevant to the argument, as again I am not denying those or telling those who want to be a part of Australia

This is about you and wolf would enforcing your views onto the aborigines who want self determination

Epic failure on your part though, nearly as bad as you claiming criticism of Islam is a hate crime comparable to antisemitism

lol!    lol!    lol!

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:19 am

Umm no I support ALL that we have done since 1925
we have Done all those things

And literally a LEADING Aboriginal Campaigner has called out your shit as shit (the OP) and YOU write him off because DIDGE KNOWS BETTER


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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:20 am

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/selfdetermination/aboriginal-nations-declaring-independence

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/selfdetermination/aboriginal-land-councils

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:21 am

veya_victaous wrote:Umm no I support ALL that we have done since 1925
we have Done all those things

And literally a LEADING Aboriginal Campaigner has called out your shit as shit (the OP)  and YOU write him off because DIDGE KNOWS BETTER
     


But not self determination as you have argued against it, which is what some want

One moment


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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:22 am

I think this best sums up Veya attempt to get out of the hole he has dug for himself here



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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:22 am

Kindly Fuck off.
Aboriginals, Muslims NO ONE needs your help, you are not a help.

People LIKE you caused these problems in the first place.

And the SELF DETERMINAITON as listed on that site that they have.. I support that

This is why Anyone with any knowledge Struggle to work out what the FUCK YOU are talking about when you say self determination, cause if it is that list it is done


Last edited by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:24 am

I haven't dug a Hole
You I have just refuted everything You have posted and
YOU could have worked out for yourself if you Read the OP

Please stop posting. I am getting sick of your rubbish.
NOW make a point that applies in 2017 or fuck off.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:26 am

veya_victaous wrote:Kindly Fuck off Aboriginals, Muslims NO ONE needs your help, you are not a help.

People LIKE you caused these problems in the first place.

And the SELF DETERMINAITON as listed on that site that they have.. I support that

This is why Anyone with any knowledge Struggle to work out what the FUCK YOU are talking about when you say self determination, cause if it is that list it is done

So now you are telling Aboriginals to fuck off?

WTF

So at last the racist truth comes out

Again I back the right of self determination and if people want to become independent of Australia, that is none of your business. Its their buisness

You can swear to the cows come home, but you back oppression, are prejudice and hate Jews and now Aborigines, deny antisemitism and think you can enforce your regressive 7th century views onto people

You can take a running jump sunshine

Laughing

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:50 am

Dude I know these are just words that you think it is game to debate, just pixels on a screen

BUT someone us live with these People.
I am not going to accept YOUR shit talking of my real friends.
I am not going to accept YOU making them into a caricature of British propaganda so you can feel big and righteous.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:28 am

veya_victaous wrote:Dude I know these are just words that you think it is game to debate, just pixels on a screen

BUT someone us live with these People.
I am not going to accept YOUR shit talking of my real friends.
I am not going to accept YOU making them into a caricature of British propaganda so you can feel big and righteous.

And you do not think I have relatives there?

Or friends?

You are going to have to accept I am going to easily refute your prejudice and denial of self determination

That is tough luck


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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:38 am

Yep Pretty much 100% positive you do not Neutral

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:40 am

the fact you think you could fool an Aussie into the idea that YOU have friends and Families amongst the EXTERMELY REMOTE COMMUNITIES that have any appetite for separation..

Sort of Proves you don't.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:43 am

veya_victaous wrote:Yep Pretty much 100% positive you do not Neutral

So my Maltese relatives there do not exist or friends

I am sure they will be happy to know, you wish to erase them from existence

I never said where they lived in Australia either, but again you make a stupid incorrect assumption

Frankly, I could not give a shit what you think, you are just a bitter angry little boy, who shuts his mouth off behind your PC

In real life you would shit your pants

Anyway, enjoy your anger little boy

I shall reserve my debate for the adults on here and you certainly do not qualify

Laters


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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:00 am

And you do not think I have relatives there?

where is 'there' ? the whole thread has been reference to Australia.

It is clearly you now need to try and get out of the pile of Bullshit you have posted but I aint letting your crap slide like Quill is kind enough to do Wink

You want to be a prick, Well meet a self declared 'geranium'
I'm like you only useful Razz Razz Razz

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:02 am

veya_victaous wrote:
And you do not think I have relatives there?

where is 'there' ? the whole thread has been reference to Australia.

It is clearly you now need to try and get out of the pile of Bullshit you have posted but I aint letting your crap slide like Quill is kind enough to do Wink

You want to be a prick, Well meet a self declared 'geranium'
I'm like you only useful Razz Razz Razz

There, meaning  Australia

The rest of your post, ad hominem again

In fact every time you are personal and abusive that is going to be my reply to you

ad hominem

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:17 am

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
And you do not think I have relatives there?

where is 'there' ? the whole thread has been reference to Australia.

It is clearly you now need to try and get out of the pile of Bullshit you have posted but I aint letting your crap slide like Quill is kind enough to do Wink

You want to be a prick, Well meet a self declared 'geranium'
I'm like you only useful Razz Razz Razz

There, meaning  Australia

The rest of your post, ad hominem again

In fact every time you are personal and abusive that is going to be my reply to you

ad hominem

So how did you make this statement.

I never said where they lived in Australia either, but again you make a stupid incorrect assumption

So I was CORRECT you do not have friends or family in Australia, particular not amongst the Aboriginal communities.

Quill is really too kind to you Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:22 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:

There, meaning  Australia

The rest of your post, ad hominem again

In fact every time you are personal and abusive that is going to be my reply to you

ad hominem

So how did you make this statement.

I never said where they lived in Australia either, but again you make a stupid incorrect assumption

So I was CORRECT you do not have friends or family in Australia, particular not amongst the Aboriginal communities.

Quill is really too kind to you Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

What is wrong with that statement?

Nothing

Australia is a big place, I never said where in Australia they lived

Quite simple for anyone else to understand except a child trying poorly to get a reaction through being personal again to the poster as you are doing

So no matter how many times you claim I do not, does not prove you right

You just do not believe me

Big deal, I am not going to lose sleep over a child not believing me


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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:27 am

veya_victaous wrote:the fact you think you could fool an Aussie into the idea that YOU have friends and Families amongst the EXTERMELY  REMOTE COMMUNITIES that have any appetite for separation..

Sort of Proves you don't.


So when looking back it was you again that made a false assumption onto something I never claimed

I never claimed my friends and family there lived in remote communities

So again its very easy to see that in fact its you who lied to something i never even said

That is about the 20th time you have done that in the last 6 hours

Look back, at no point did I make such a claim in regards to remote communities

That was your invention, your lie and then you further expand on this lie

Epic fail ha ha ha

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:53 am

Do they even live in Australia?
I doubt it? or they would think you are dickhead too.
No one holds YOUR views down here. In fact I have been debating it elsewhere.

and you have My side the PRO-reconciliation side that says
Australia day is 'invasion day' or at best "New South Wales Day" and out of respect we should change it to that date of federation.

OR you have the anti reconciliation side (white privileged side) that says it is Australia day and the Aboriginals should just be grateful (Sounds like you actually)


anyone that lives here knows the stuff you posted is nonsense. because if they have any interest in the aboriginals at all they know all the geographic distributions and populations. Yes a few group of a few hundred in Extremely isolated places say they want sovereignty, until coming to understand all that entails. then they are happy with forming a tribal land corporation which the gives then Fiscal control and ownership just like a corporation that bought a block of land.

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:01 am

veya_victaous wrote:Do they even live in Australia?
I doubt it?  or they would think you are dickhead too.
No one holds YOUR views down here. In fact I have been debating it elsewhere.

and you have My side the PRO-reconciliation side that says
Australia day is 'invasion day' or at best "New South Wales Day"   and out of respect we should change it to that date of federation.

OR you have the anti reconciliation side (white privileged side) that says it is Australia day and the Aboriginals should just be grateful (Sounds like you actually)


anyone that lives here knows the stuff you posted is nonsense.  because if they have any interest in the aboriginals at all they know all the geographic distributions and populations. Yes a few group of a few hundred in Extremely isolated places say they want sovereignty, until coming to understand all that entails. then they are happy with forming a tribal land corporation which the gives then Fiscal control and ownership just like a corporation that bought a block of land.

1) You have repeated you do not believe me. I dont care and is misdirection, my family is massive and is all over the world. I have cousins in Australia and friends

2) Its not up to you to decide what Australia day is. You are by doing so denying the rights of thousands of Australians who have died as being classed as Australians. What right have you to do that?

3) Here we go again, how can it be nonsense when a group of aborigines want self determination? You are saying they cannot have this because others do not want this. So that does not make me wrong at all, it just shows you again are being prejudiced towards those that want self determination. You have no right to decide for them. So you clearly have no interest in the Aborigines that want to have self determination and wrongly think you can decide their fate

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:37 am

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Dude I know these are just words that you think it is game to debate, just pixels on a screen

BUT someone us live with these People.
I am not going to accept YOUR shit talking of my real friends.
I am not going to accept YOU making them into a caricature of British propaganda so you can feel big and righteous.

And you do not think I have relatives there?

Or friends?

You are going to have to accept I am going to easily refute your prejudice and denial of self determination

That is tough luck

Razz

You now have friends and "family" near/in/among indigenous communities in Oz,  didgery Thorin  ?!?

In a pig's eye you do..


Now everyone on Newsfix knows you're lying.

No-one with insider info' on this subject, would go on with your brand of total b/s.. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:45 am

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Kindly Fuck off Aboriginals, Muslims NO ONE needs your help, you are not a help.

People LIKE you caused these problems in the first place.

And the SELF DETERMINAITON as listed on that site that they have.. I support that

This is why Anyone with any knowledge Struggle to work out what the FUCK YOU are talking about when you say self determination, cause if it is that list it is done

So now you are telling Aboriginals to fuck off?

WTF

So at last the racist truth comes out

Again I back the right of self determination and if people want to become independent of Australia, that is none of your business. Its their buisness

You can swear to the cows come home, but you back oppression, are prejudice and hate Jews and now Aborigines, deny antisemitism and think you can enforce your regressive 7th century views onto people

You can take a running jump sunshine

Laughing

Evil or Very Mad

No, dense little Thorin Dodger...

Veya was telling you to "fuck off" lecturing about Aboriginals and Muslims -- subjects you clearly know nothing about..

You're the one peddling racist ideology on here.

Not veya, not me, not Quill..

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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by nicko on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:27 am

I just wish Veya would stop SHOUTING.
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Re: Beyond the fact of our heritage and identity should being Indigenous really matter?

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:00 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So now you are telling Aboriginals to fuck off?

WTF

So at last the racist truth comes out

Again I back the right of self determination and if people want to become independent of Australia, that is none of your business. Its their buisness

You can swear to the cows come home, but you back oppression, are prejudice and hate Jews and now Aborigines, deny antisemitism and think you can enforce your regressive 7th century views onto people

You can take a running jump sunshine

Laughing

Evil or Very Mad

No, dense little Thorin Dodger...

Veya was telling you to "fuck off"  lecturing about Aboriginals and Muslims --  subjects you clearly know nothing about..

You're the one peddling racist ideology on here.

Not veya,  not me,  not Quill..


Oh pipe down you little twerp, and stop starting crap as you always do

What a pathetic reply

When you grow up and act like a adult, come back and debate me

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