United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

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United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:57 pm



On Tuesday, 55-year-old Sara Kelly Keenan received something in the mail she's been waiting for her entire life: an accurate birth certificate.

Keenan was born intersex, with male genes, female genitalia and mixed internal reproductive organs. Now, Keenan, who uses female pronouns, is making history. Hers is believed to be the first birth certificate ever issued in the United States that reads "intersex" in the gender field, instead of "male" or "female."

"In the United States, birth certificates often provide access to a wide range of public services and critical identity documents, such as state IDs and passports," Castillo said. "Having birth certificates with gender designations other than male or female provides an enormous sense of validation for a number of non-binary and intersex people."

Like many people born intersex, Keenan was unaware of her anatomical reality for most of her adult life, because her parents and doctors agreed to keep it secret. When she was born in New York City a half-century ago, she was classified as a boy for three weeks—then suddenly issued a female birth certificate.

Back then, intersex people were called "hermaphrodites," and doctors typically recommended surgery to make them conform to one of two genders. Keenan started a lifetime of hormone replacement therapy at age 16, vaguely informed that she was "a girl that can't make hormones." Her father confessed to her in 2012 that doctors had suggested a penis be constructed to match her genitalia to her male chromosomes, but he had declined. She has since undergone endocrinological testing to confirm her intersex status.

"Not all intersex people will choose to identify legally as intersex," Keenan told NBC Out, "and not all parents will choose to have their intersex child identified as intersex on birth documents. But for those who do, the option must exist."

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/nation-s-first-known-intersex-birth-certificate-issued-nyc-n701186

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Lord Foul on Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:00 pm

one small step.....in the right direction

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by eddie on Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:00 pm

I always feel like these things seem so small but they are a huge step in the right direction for recognising that people are defined as themselves, rather than being a tick in a box.

Not sure I explained that well. But it's good news anyhow.

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:46 pm



There is something a bit not quite right here...


"...Keenan was born intersex, with male genes, female genitalia and mixed internal reproductive organs..."


Correct me if I'm wrong... but wouldn't it have only been common medical practice (in usa hospitals 55 years ago) for new born babies to be 'popped out and caught', then to get a 'smack on the arse' to get them breathing properly, then cleaned up and handed to mother... sometime during the latter would be a visual general physical inspection of baby (number of arms/legs/fingers/toes etc...) including the 'look between the legs' check...


This article clearly says that only female genitalia was apparent at birth... as seen above...


So why would any of the medical staff at time of birth 55 years ago have done anything other than see the new born baby as anything other than a female with female genitalia when it clearly says that only female genitalia was apparent at birth...


"...born in New York City a half-century ago, she was classified as a boy for three weeks—then suddenly issued a female birth certificate..."



Imagine...

55 years ago in a busy hospital delivery room...

A team of highly experienced and professional staff dealing with (a sort of Conveyor belt) system of pregnant women rolling in, delivering the new born baby's...

Next...

Woman rolls in...

Baby pops out...

Catch...

Smack the arse...

Have a good look while cleaning baby up...

"... yes... baby is crying breathing... yes has a head... a face... two eyes... 1 nose... 2 ears... a mouth... body looks OK... two arms... both go all the way to the fingers... 4 fingers & 1 thumb on each hand... 2 legs... both go all the way to the toes... normal number/arrangement toes on each..."


BUT THEN... HOW LIKELY IS THIS...?


"...yes it's a boy..."


When only female genitalia was visibly apparent at birth...?



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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by sassy on Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:56 pm

Jeez Tommy, you are ignorant.   When a baby is born it's genatalia are very swollen normally.   Many intersex babies are classed as boys when born because the genetalia are ambiguous, but the clitoris is so swollen it looks like a penis.   It's only later when things settle down and other things come to light that they realise a mistake has been made.



Man raised as a girl calls for ban on gender surgery until children can make up their own minds


   
Joe Holliday was born with a condition called cloacal exstrophy, meaning he had not developed properly in the womb. Photo: ITV Anglia  
ITV News Anglia reporter Claire McGlasson
The name Joella Holliday came up again and again in a search of ITV Anglia’s archives. We had followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s.
She must be in her 20s now. I wondered whether she would give me an interview as part of my series on transgender issues. I decided to call. A man explained that Joella was now Joel but prefers to be known as Joe. Over the next few months I came to understand his story.

   
ITV Anglia followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s. Credit: ITV Anglia
When Joe was born nurses couldn’t tell his mother whether she’s had a boy or a girl. He had a condition called cloacal exstrophy. He had not developed properly in the womb, he had a large hole in his abdomen and his genitals had not fully formed.
Not expecting him to survive very long after he was born, his parents were advised to have him christened in hospital. He was given the name Joel and registered as male.
But a year later a specialist advised them that it would be better if he was brought up as female.

   
Joe was registered as male at birth, but a specialist later suggested that it would be better if he was brought up as female. Credit: ITV Anglia
"Mainly from a psychological point of view. At the time the chances of reconstructing genitalia were unlikely. So it was felt if I was brought up as female then it would be surgically easier and psychologically easier in the long run.
"And eventually they softened to the idea and agreed to change me."
"And they went out and bought all the clothes and the day I woke up on my first birthday I was dressed as a girl and that was it from then on."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joella’s mother fought to get her birth certificate changed from male to female. Credit: ITV Anglia
Dressed as a girl and given the name Joella, she looked like a little girl but in law she was still male.
Fearing that her daughter would not be able to marry when she grew-up, Joella’s mother began a fight to get her birth certificate changed. High profile supporters like Diana, Princess of Wales, led their voices to her cause.
Joella appeared on television programmes like Anglia News to insist that the world should know she was a girl. But privately she was having doubts.

   
Joe says despite insisting that world should know he was a girl, privately he was having doubts. Credit: ITV Anglia
"In the media I was portrayed as this girly girl who had ribbons in my hair and wore girly dresses and that really wasn't me. I was like one of the boys.
"I sat and nodded along and said what they wanted to hear."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has legally changed his name from Joella. Credit: ITV Anglia
After suffering with depression into her 20s, Joella went for a routine hospital appointment. It was there that she saw the results of a chromosome test in the doctor’s notes. The letter said she was XY: Male.
"I just said look if I hadn't been born with cloacal exstrophy would I have been a man. He said yes."
– Joe Holliday
Joe realised that he had been male all along. Discovering that his testicles had been removed by surgeons when he was little.
"I find that just awful. That was done to me. I was castrated and my future of being able to have children was just thrown away because they didn't think it was important."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has written a book about his life. Credit: ITV Anglia
Joe has written a book, She’s a Boy, about his life and is now campaigning for an end to cosmetic surgery on children who are born with indeterminate gender.
An estimated one in 1000 babies born in the UK each year don't have typical characteristics of male or female.
Despite a report from the UN which condemned surgical intervention to "normalise" those children as a form of torture. The practice has not been banned in this country.
Joe is calling for a law to be passed to ban this type of surgery until children can grow up to make up their own minds.

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2015-11-06/man-who-was-raised-a-girl-calls-for-ban-on-surgery-until-children-can-make-up-their-own-minds/



One in five hundred new born children are not "standard issue" in genitals

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:00 am

The third sex: The truth about gender ambiguity

Neither wholly male nor entirely female, there are more than 30,000 'intersexed' individuals living in Britain today. Here, they talk about their lives

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-third-sex-the-truth-about-gender-ambiguity-1922816.html

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:57 am

sassy wrote:Jeez Tommy, you are ignorant.   When a baby is born it's genatalia are very swollen normally.   Many intersex babies are classed as boys when born because the genetalia are ambiguous, but the clitoris is so swollen it looks like a penis.   It's only later when things settle down and other things come to light that they realise a mistake has been made.



Man raised as a girl calls for ban on gender surgery until children can make up their own minds


   
Joe Holliday was born with a condition called cloacal exstrophy, meaning he had not developed properly in the womb. Photo: ITV Anglia  
ITV News Anglia reporter Claire McGlasson
The name Joella Holliday came up again and again in a search of ITV Anglia’s archives. We had followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s.
She must be in her 20s now. I wondered whether she would give me an interview as part of my series on transgender issues. I decided to call. A man explained that Joella was now Joel but prefers to be known as Joe. Over the next few months I came to understand his story.

   
ITV Anglia followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s. Credit: ITV Anglia
When Joe was born nurses couldn’t tell his mother whether she’s had a boy or a girl. He had a condition called cloacal exstrophy. He had not developed properly in the womb, he had a large hole in his abdomen and his genitals had not fully formed.
Not expecting him to survive very long after he was born, his parents were advised to have him christened in hospital. He was given the name Joel and registered as male.
But a year later a specialist advised them that it would be better if he was brought up as female.

   
Joe was registered as male at birth, but a specialist later suggested that it would be better if he was brought up as female. Credit: ITV Anglia
"Mainly from a psychological point of view. At the time the chances of reconstructing genitalia were unlikely. So it was felt if I was brought up as female then it would be surgically easier and psychologically easier in the long run.
"And eventually they softened to the idea and agreed to change me."
"And they went out and bought all the clothes and the day I woke up on my first birthday I was dressed as a girl and that was it from then on."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joella’s mother fought to get her birth certificate changed from male to female. Credit: ITV Anglia
Dressed as a girl and given the name Joella, she looked like a little girl but in law she was still male.
Fearing that her daughter would not be able to marry when she grew-up, Joella’s mother began a fight to get her birth certificate changed. High profile supporters like Diana, Princess of Wales, led their voices to her cause.
Joella appeared on television programmes like Anglia News to insist that the world should know she was a girl. But privately she was having doubts.

   
Joe says despite insisting that world should know he was a girl, privately he was having doubts. Credit: ITV Anglia
"In the media I was portrayed as this girly girl who had ribbons in my hair and wore girly dresses and that really wasn't me. I was like one of the boys.
"I sat and nodded along and said what they wanted to hear."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has legally changed his name from Joella. Credit: ITV Anglia
After suffering with depression into her 20s, Joella went for a routine hospital appointment. It was there that she saw the results of a chromosome test in the doctor’s notes. The letter said she was XY: Male.
"I just said look if I hadn't been born with cloacal exstrophy would I have been a man. He said yes."
– Joe Holliday
Joe realised that he had been male all along. Discovering that his testicles had been removed by surgeons when he was little.
"I find that just awful. That was done to me. I was castrated and my future of being able to have children was just thrown away because they didn't think it was important."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has written a book about his life. Credit: ITV Anglia
Joe has written a book, She’s a Boy, about his life and is now campaigning for an end to cosmetic surgery on children who are born with indeterminate gender.
An estimated one in 1000 babies born in the UK each year don't have typical characteristics of male or female.
Despite a report from the UN which condemned surgical intervention to "normalise" those children as a form of torture. The practice has not been banned in this country.
Joe is calling for a law to be passed to ban this type of surgery until children can grow up to make up their own minds.

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2015-11-06/man-who-was-raised-a-girl-calls-for-ban-on-surgery-until-children-can-make-up-their-own-minds/



One in five hundred new born children are not "standard issue" in genitals



"..Joe was registered as male at birth, but a specialist later suggested that it would be better if he was brought up as female..."

"...Joe realised that he had been male all along. Discovering that his testicles had been removed by surgeons when he was little..."



So... another example of a male baby being originally designated as a male by the expert medical delivery staff who saw him into the world... but who then got subjected to a highly suspicious 'gender reassignment' programme...



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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:18 pm

Tommy, please go and look at the images and do some reading on this subject, you might understand why it is that genetically male babies born with this condition are regularly assigned a female gender.

There is nothing highly suspicious about it.
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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:39 pm

"In the United States, birth certificates often provide access to a wide range of public services and critical identity documents, such as state IDs and passports," Castillo said. "Having birth certificates with gender designations other than male or female provides an enormous sense of validation for a number of non-binary and intersex people."

Like many people born intersex, Keenan was unaware of her anatomical reality for most of her adult life, because her parents and doctors agreed to keep it secret. When she was born in New York City a half-century ago, she was classified as a boy for three weeks—then suddenly issued a female birth certificate.

Crawling out of the DARK AGES in regard to how we've allowed our God Like Physicians in WHITE ROBS to just make those mind boggling decisions for parents about their newborn babies ...well it's long over due IMO.
Had it not been for the brave number of young to adults dual gender humans stepping into the light and telling their own horror stories, we'd still be just leaving these matters into the hand of those 'Brilliant Medical Professional' that had zero dog in that life altering decision.
I've met 2 such dual gender people in my life time and just 5 years ago knew a young couple that gave birth to a baby that this life altering genetic/confusing thing happened too.  He ended up having to quit his supervisory position - they relocated away from this rural area to a larger metropolitan hospital in order to have access for 21st century techniques and informed decisions to aide their heart wrenching medical choice!
Do we modify our babies sexual gender now or do we wait - what percentage of the male chromosomes vs female chromosomes should we take into consideration prior to changing the babies sexual gender type - or wait until their pubescent and then allow the hormones to dictate for the child - but then that means years of public stress and confusion for that little one while dealing with public misunderstanding and public schools firm guidelines!  
Such heart breaking decisions for their first baby - I just can't imagine their tough decisions when any parent just wants what is best for that newborn life. 

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:50 pm

Spindleshanks wrote:Tommy, please go and look at the images and do some reading on this subject, you might understand why it is that genetically male babies born with this condition are regularly assigned a female gender.

There is nothing highly suspicious about it.


Looks suspicious enough to me...


A male baby with male genitalia has his testicles removed and they try to enforce female gender onto him?


That's not suspicious practice...!?

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:59 pm

Tommy, if you had bothered to read and learn it says in the article that he had cloacal exstrophy.   (the article I posted).   Have your the slightest idea what that is?   Now, this will show you and you will then run us through it and tell us how you would now if he was a boy or a girl clever dick:


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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:04 pm

sassy wrote:Jeez Tommy, you are ignorant.   When a baby is born it's genatalia are very swollen normally.   Many intersex babies are classed as boys when born because the genetalia are ambiguous, but the clitoris is so swollen it looks like a penis.   It's only later when things settle down and other things come to light that they realise a mistake has been made.



Man raised as a girl calls for ban on gender surgery until children can make up their own minds


   
Joe Holliday was born with a condition called cloacal exstrophy, meaning he had not developed properly in the womb. Photo: ITV Anglia  
ITV News Anglia reporter Claire McGlasson
The name Joella Holliday came up again and again in a search of ITV Anglia’s archives. We had followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s.
She must be in her 20s now. I wondered whether she would give me an interview as part of my series on transgender issues. I decided to call. A man explained that Joella was now Joel but prefers to be known as Joe. Over the next few months I came to understand his story.

   
ITV Anglia followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s. Credit: ITV Anglia
When Joe was born nurses couldn’t tell his mother whether she’s had a boy or a girl. He had a condition called cloacal exstrophy. He had not developed properly in the womb, he had a large hole in his abdomen and his genitals had not fully formed.
Not expecting him to survive very long after he was born, his parents were advised to have him christened in hospital. He was given the name Joel and registered as male.
But a year later a specialist advised them that it would be better if he was brought up as female.

   
Joe was registered as male at birth, but a specialist later suggested that it would be better if he was brought up as female. Credit: ITV Anglia
"Mainly from a psychological point of view. At the time the chances of reconstructing genitalia were unlikely. So it was felt if I was brought up as female then it would be surgically easier and psychologically easier in the long run.
"And eventually they softened to the idea and agreed to change me."
"And they went out and bought all the clothes and the day I woke up on my first birthday I was dressed as a girl and that was it from then on."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joella’s mother fought to get her birth certificate changed from male to female. Credit: ITV Anglia
Dressed as a girl and given the name Joella, she looked like a little girl but in law she was still male.
Fearing that her daughter would not be able to marry when she grew-up, Joella’s mother began a fight to get her birth certificate changed. High profile supporters like Diana, Princess of Wales, led their voices to her cause.
Joella appeared on television programmes like Anglia News to insist that the world should know she was a girl. But privately she was having doubts.

   
Joe says despite insisting that world should know he was a girl, privately he was having doubts. Credit: ITV Anglia
"In the media I was portrayed as this girly girl who had ribbons in my hair and wore girly dresses and that really wasn't me. I was like one of the boys.
"I sat and nodded along and said what they wanted to hear."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has legally changed his name from Joella. Credit: ITV Anglia
After suffering with depression into her 20s, Joella went for a routine hospital appointment. It was there that she saw the results of a chromosome test in the doctor’s notes. The letter said she was XY: Male.
"I just said look if I hadn't been born with cloacal exstrophy would I have been a man. He said yes."
– Joe Holliday
Joe realised that he had been male all along. Discovering that his testicles had been removed by surgeons when he was little.
"I find that just awful. That was done to me. I was castrated and my future of being able to have children was just thrown away because they didn't think it was important."
– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has written a book about his life. Credit: ITV Anglia
Joe has written a book, She’s a Boy, about his life and is now campaigning for an end to cosmetic surgery on children who are born with indeterminate gender.
An estimated one in 1000 babies born in the UK each year don't have typical characteristics of male or female.
Despite a report from the UN which condemned surgical intervention to "normalise" those children as a form of torture. The practice has not been banned in this country.
Joe is calling for a law to be passed to ban this type of surgery until children can grow up to make up their own minds.

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2015-11-06/man-who-was-raised-a-girl-calls-for-ban-on-surgery-until-children-can-make-up-their-own-minds/



One in five hundred new born children are not "standard issue" in genitals



Maybe you need to read the article you posted again sassquatch...


This man doesn't seem very happy about having his testicles removed and being forced to be a girl...




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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
sassy wrote:Jeez Tommy, you are ignorant.   When a baby is born it's genatalia are very swollen normally.   Many intersex babies are classed as boys when born because the genetalia are ambiguous, but the clitoris is so swollen it looks like a penis.   It's only later when things settle down and other things come to light that they realise a mistake has been made.



Man raised as a girl calls for ban on gender surgery until children can make up their own minds


   
Joe Holliday was born with a condition called cloacal exstrophy, meaning he had not developed properly in the womb. Photo: ITV Anglia  
ITV News Anglia reporter Claire McGlasson
The name Joella Holliday came up again and again in a search of ITV Anglia’s archives. We had followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s.
She must be in her 20s now. I wondered whether she would give me an interview as part of my series on transgender issues. I decided to call. A man explained that Joella was now Joel but prefers to be known as Joe. Over the next few months I came to understand his story.

   
ITV Anglia followed the story of the little girl who fought to change her birth certificate from male to female in the 1990s. Credit: ITV Anglia
When Joe was born nurses couldn’t tell his mother whether she’s had a boy or a girl. He had a condition called cloacal exstrophy. He had not developed properly in the womb, he had a large hole in his abdomen and his genitals had not fully formed.
Not expecting him to survive very long after he was born, his parents were advised to have him christened in hospital. He was given the name Joel and registered as male.
But a year later a specialist advised them that it would be better if he was brought up as female.

   
Joe was registered as male at birth, but a specialist later suggested that it would be better if he was brought up as female. Credit: ITV Anglia

– Joe Holliday

   
Joella’s mother fought to get her birth certificate changed from male to female. Credit: ITV Anglia
Dressed as a girl and given the name Joella, she looked like a little girl but in law she was still male.
Fearing that her daughter would not be able to marry when she grew-up, Joella’s mother began a fight to get her birth certificate changed. High profile supporters like Diana, Princess of Wales, led their voices to her cause.
Joella appeared on television programmes like Anglia News to insist that the world should know she was a girl. But privately she was having doubts.

   
Joe says despite insisting that world should know he was a girl, privately he was having doubts. Credit: ITV Anglia

– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has legally changed his name from Joella. Credit: ITV Anglia
After suffering with depression into her 20s, Joella went for a routine hospital appointment. It was there that she saw the results of a chromosome test in the doctor’s notes. The letter said she was XY: Male.

– Joe Holliday
Joe realised that he had been male all along. Discovering that his testicles had been removed by surgeons when he was little.

– Joe Holliday

   
Joe has written a book about his life. Credit: ITV Anglia
Joe has written a book, She’s a Boy, about his life and is now campaigning for an end to cosmetic surgery on children who are born with indeterminate gender.
An estimated one in 1000 babies born in the UK each year don't have typical characteristics of male or female.
Despite a report from the UN which condemned surgical intervention to "normalise" those children as a form of torture. The practice has not been banned in this country.
Joe is calling for a law to be passed to ban this type of surgery until children can grow up to make up their own minds.

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2015-11-06/man-who-was-raised-a-girl-calls-for-ban-on-surgery-until-children-can-make-up-their-own-minds/



One in five hundred new born children are not "standard issue" in genitals



Maybe you need to read the article you posted again sassquatch...


This man doesn't seem very happy about having his testicles removed and being forced to be a girl...





Who has claimed he did.   I have said for a long time that they should not assign a gender to people who are born with this kind of thing  (there are other problems that cause the gender not to be known) and they should not operate to assign a gender until the person is old enough to make that decision.   They have to operate to save the babies life, but should keep it gender neutral.   Before, you couldn't have a gender neutral birth certificate, that's why this step forward in having one is so fantastic.

But that wasn't the point you were making, you said that they know the gender.   They don't.   Just for once educate yourself and stop looking such an arse.


When Joe was born nurses couldn’t tell his mother whether she’s had a boy or a girl. He had a condition called cloacal exstrophy. He had not developed properly in the womb, he had a large hole in his abdomen and his genitals had not fully formed.

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Spindleshanks wrote:Tommy, please go and look at the images and do some reading on this subject, you might understand why it is that genetically male babies born with this condition are regularly assigned a female gender.

There is nothing highly suspicious about it.


Looks suspicious enough to me...


A male baby with male genitalia has his testicles removed and they try to enforce female gender onto him?


That's not suspicious practice...!?

The point is Tommy they are unlikely to have much in the way of any obvious genitalia at all which is probably the reason why they assign a female gender.

The image in this thread is an example of what the surgeons face.
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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:16 pm

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Maybe you need to read the article you posted again sassquatch...
This man doesn't seem very happy about having his testicles removed and being forced to be a girl...
Who has claimed he did.   I have said for a long time that they should not assign a gender to people who are born with this kind of thing  (there are other problems that cause the gender not to be known) and they should not operate to assign a gender until the person is old enough to make that decision.   They have to operate to save the babies life, but should keep it gender neutral.   Before, you couldn't have a gender neutral birth certificate, that's why this step forward in having one is so fantastic.

But that wasn't the point you were making, you said that they know the gender.   They don't.   Just for once educate yourself and stop looking such an arse.

When Joe was born nurses couldn’t tell his mother whether she’s had a boy or a girl. He had a condition called cloacal exstrophy. He had not developed properly in the womb, he had a large hole in his abdomen and his genitals had not fully formed.

Oh, why bother Sassy ...Tommykins just proved he's twirled himself into a fit of his own making and has now twisted his meager POV right around into a hysteria filled rant and is calling you names because he's nothing else but frustrated and highly CONFUSED! 
Just another topic that he's proven unable to discuss and will just stir up the PACK to rush in here to support his feeble/hugely wrong stance but it will just go off topic because of his hysteria!   Twisted Evil

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:32 pm

Even me, a self-confessed skimmer of articles, understood this Tommy. Rolling Eyes

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Re: United States issues first-known intersex birth certificate in nation's history

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:44 pm



And I understand it too...

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