Muslims spreading christmas cheer

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Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Angry Andy on Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:55 pm

Amongst the homeless in Manchester.
A great gesture.
And they are not doing for publicity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38398805

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:20 pm

Perhaps Tommy could drive past there on Christmas Day too?


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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:20 pm

Excellent, and as with 'ALL' those types of charity groups not ever are they questioned by those NEEDY, as to their: faith - ethnicity - nationality ...but always a deeply felt & sincere TY and maybe a blessing in return!
And from the sub link in your article :


Homeless charity Crisis works to help rough sleepers over the Christmas period but stresses that help is needed all year around, while fellow charity Shelter estimates more than 250,000 people are homeless in England and in need of support.

Here are five practical ways you can make a difference.

1. Alert the professionals


Image copyright Birmingham Homeless Outreach Image caption  
Birmingham Homeless Outreach volunteers provide food, bedding and clothes to those on the streets
Shoppers and commuters pass by homeless people day after day but many may feel they do not know how to help. One of the simplest ways is to tell a professional.

Street Link is a government-funded service which allows people to alert local authorities in England and Wales about rough sleepers in need of support in their area.
"With the public's help, in the last 12 months we have put almost 11,000 people in touch with the support they needed to escape rough sleeping," says director Matt Harrison.  "We hope to have an even greater impact in 2017."

You can pick up the phone or use Street Link's website or app to enter details of the location, time and date you saw the person and any other information you have.

The service will contact professionals who will try to find them and help them access things like shelter and food.

2. Give time, not money


Image copyright Thinkstock Image caption  "Offer them food and if they don't take it they don't need it,"
says former rough sleeper Rik James
When someone on the street asks for money some give instinctively, while others struggle with what it might be spent on. For Rik James, who previously slept rough, money is not the answer.

"If they ask for money it's for one of two things - drugs or alcohol," says Mr James, who runs Birmingham Homeless Outreach.  "Offer them food and if they don't take it they don't need it."  It's his view that if a homeless person spends money on drugs then the person who gave them the cash is party to the substance abuse.
"Just come out with food and hot drinks," he adds. "Give them five minutes of your time, talk to them.  "I go out seven days a week with clothes and bedding. If you give them sleeping bags they just sell them."

3. Or give small things


Image copyright Thinkstock Image caption  Give a gift - a hat, gloves, or clean dry socks
If you choose not to give money to homeless people there are others things you can give to make a difference to their day.

"A lot of people doing a little is better than a few people doing a lot", is the motto of former armed serviceman Ian Northcott.  He founded Socks&Chocs in 2010 to collect warm and dry socks and chocolate for people on the streets of Birmingham.
When Mr Northcott was a soldier he often spent days in the field, tired, cold and wet. The Army insisted he put on a pair of clean, dry socks each day.
Mr Northcott says he did not realise the importance at first, but the simple pleasure of a warm pair of socks made a great deal of difference.
His charity aims to give the same feeling to homeless people struggling in the cold, along with chocolate to give them a boost.
This year the charity has given out 6,274 pairs of socks and 4,713 boxes of chocolate.
Other gift ideas which could make a difference include hand warmers, gloves, hats and books.

4. Remember furry friends


Image copyright Thinkstock Image caption  You could drop by some dog food for homeless people with canine companions
A four-legged friend can be some rough sleepers' only companion - and both owner and pet may be grateful of a kind gesture.
"If people want to help [a homeless person] with a dog by buying them some dog food, then we're sure it would always be appreciated," says Clare Kivlehan, head of outreach projects at The Dog's Trust.
She says the public could also put rough sleepers in touch with the charity's Hope Project, which provides free and subsidised veterinary treatment to dogs whose owners are homeless or in housing crisis.

The project also works with hostels and housing providers to encourage them to accept clients with dogs.
Ms Kivlehan adds: "Each year [the Hope Project] funds around 1,800 veterinary treatments to help dogs remain with their devoted owners... There are now over 150 dog friendly hostels nationwide."

5. Remember the 'hidden homeless'


Image copyright Birmingham Homeless Outreach Image caption  
The old Birmingham Central Library used to provide shelter for many homeless people in the city
When rough sleepers line the streets, their plight is painfully visible. But Roger Harding, campaign director at homeless charity Shelter, says there are many, many more people whose struggles are hidden.

"This Christmas, 120,000 children in Britain will be homeless," says Mr Harding. "Hidden away in hostels; sharing kitchens and bathrooms with strangers. Sharing a bedroom with the rest of their family."
He says people could encourage those at risk of losing their homes to call their helpline, which is open 365 days a year for advice and support.
The government's Homelessness Reduction Bill introduced in October places a duty on local authorities to help eligible people secure somewhere to live 56 days before they are threatened with homelessness.

Councils must also provide those who do find themselves homeless with support for another 56 days to help to secure accommodation.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38221721

There was an excellent article just recently written by a college young female college student; the perils of wearing her Habib - getting into trouble by her elders at home if she was seen/caught NOT WEARING it - getting ridiculed/harassed/threatened with violence/spit on by the American public for wearing it!

I'll see if I can find that article, it was so exhausting & frustrating that these people are being treated like this, especially the young children - the young ladies. 

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:35 pm

There are Sikhs in London that drive around every day in a van marked S.W.A.T (can't remember what it stands for), who give out food to the homeless.
They aren't trying to advertise anything but kindness.


Last edited by eddie on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:46 pm

eddie wrote:There are Siekhs in London that drive around every day in a van marked S.W.A.T (can't remember what it stands for), who give out food to the homeless.
They aren't trying to advertise anything but kindness.

Seems Britain's immigrants has been very proactive in helping the many thousands of homeless and they don't keep track of ethnicity or faith based reasons for the need either!

SWAT HQ, Kiran House, Springfield Rd, Hayes UB4 0JT
Sen-Nin Restaurants @senninjapanese  
Amazing work. Spreading love at #Christmas with @SwatLondon @WE_Empowered thank you to the all the volunteers #chairty #feedingthehomeless
Mission Statement >
We have a vision where every person we meet knows they are loved and valued, lives safely, with respect, faith, hope and care for themselves and others, achieving their full potential and positively contributing to and transforming their communities”.
 
We work on the ethos of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings who was the first Guru of the Sikhs of:
[*]Naam Japna; remembering God.
[*]Kirat Karni; earning an honest living.
[*]Vand Kay Shako; selflessly serving others, sharing income and resources

http://www.swatlondon.com/ 



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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:50 pm

Exactly. That's why whenever Tommy or others say this sort of thing is just self-advertising it annoys me.
I've seen and met loads of charitable people from all different faiths - they used to donate money, toys and books to the Children's playgroup that I ran a few years ago.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:52 pm

And let's face it, if a restaurant, for example, gets extra custom from their charitable acts of kindness then good for them!
I'd rather eat in a place that had good karma.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Syl on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:53 pm

It's a very kind gesture what this group of Muslims are doing in Manchester.
As are many other groups, be they Christian, jews,  Sikhs, agnostics, Atheists, etc etc.....this singling out Muslims is getting very boring.

Persistently bringing up one group  creates divides imo....and progress will only really be made when all groups combine to help everyone.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:59 pm

So here's a challlenge for ye:

Find a Mormon one. First off the top of my head.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:01 pm

Syl wrote:....this singling out Muslims is getting very boring.
Necessary though in order to counter Islamaphobic hysteria.


Last edited by Ziz on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Syl on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:03 pm

eddie wrote:So here's a challlenge for ye:

Find a Mormon one. First off the top of my head.

We have a Mormon church nearby. They do loads to help the poor and the needy...they don't advertise the fact though.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:04 pm

eddie wrote:So here's a challlenge for ye:

Find a Mormon one. First off the top of my head.

You'd have to live in or around one of their CONCLAVES ...those folks help their social order and when there is extra then they'll donate to the local nursing homes/food baskets but rarely will you see them going 'OUT' into a community to share door-to-door or finding any homeless! 

It isn't what they do, not in America anyway!

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Angry Andy on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:06 pm

Curiously, there have been no comments from the more 'right of centre'posters on here.
I wonder why.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:08 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:....this singling out Muslims is getting very boring.
Necessary though in order to counter Islamaphobic hysteria.

And to remain 'MUM' while those that will be spiteful - trash a perfectly good - topic/article about a decent thing being done by others ...is exactly what Ben & I were talking about on the Alt-Right neo-Nazi "safety squads" targeting American liberal culture  it is exactly the same thing!

Remaining SILENT to the verbal/written abuse is just allowing the vile/hate to grow and fester ...we the educated just can't do that!

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:16 pm

Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Syl on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:21 pm

Ziz wrote:Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists.

Well you don't, you actively support them.
Haters come in many guises.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by nicko on Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:11 pm

+1
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:13 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Curiously, there have been no comments from the more 'right of centre'posters on here.
I wonder why.

Perhaps they're out enjoying themselves instead of pursuing some kind of daft agenda on a forum.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:10 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists.

Well you don't, you actively support them.
Haters come in many guises.

I do not support, finance or vote for haters - you're getting confused again.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:19 pm

eddie wrote:Exactly. That's why whenever Tommy or others say this sort of thing is just self-advertising it annoys me.
I've seen and met loads of charitable people from all different faiths - they used to donate money, toys and books to the Children's playgroup that I ran a few years ago.


Yes... and it's funny how so much is done by so many but normally never deemed important enough for the bbc to send a film crew to make an article about it...



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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
eddie wrote:Exactly. That's why whenever Tommy or others say this sort of thing is just self-advertising it annoys me.
I've seen and met loads of charitable people from all different faiths - they used to donate money, toys and books to the Children's playgroup that I ran a few years ago.
Yes... and it's funny how so much is done by so many but normally never deemed important enough for the bbc to send a film crew to make an article about it...
Then use your powers of persuasion and contact the media choices you have issues with and EXPRESS YOUR OPINION; that would seem to be the rational - adult thing to do! 
Or not and continue to whine about the lack of coverage!   

The nice thing about this NF community, we are allowed to bring whatever topics of general interest {and meet the criteria/rules} in here for discussion ...if you don't like the News article then just stroll on by and IGNORE them ...seems a pretty simplistic solution for your issue - RIGHT?  Razz

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:30 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:
Well you don't, you actively support them.
Haters come in many guises.
I do not support, finance or vote for haters - you're getting confused again.
Spinning the TOPIC from the article into something that it isn't is how they twist the adult discussion into just another shit fest for their venting! 
It's what they doTwisted Evil

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:34 pm

Does anyone really believe that these threads are being started as "news" threads? They're clearly aimed at certain people on here, and the people starting them don't give a damn about what any Muslims are doing. I can't believe others don't see through the blatant agenda on here - it's like a neon sign.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:40 pm

This one is aimed at crediting Muslims for their sterling work and bravo to that. If certain people can't handle that then shame on them.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:42 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Ziz wrote:
I do not support, finance or vote for haters - you're getting confused again.
Spinning the TOPIC from the article into something that it isn't is how they twist the adult discussion into just another shit fest for their venting! 
It's what they doTwisted Evil

There is more hate around than even we care to acknowledge - more's the pity. No

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:51 pm

Ziz wrote:Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists.

So, can one take it that both you and 4ever promulgate the notion that

"if you dont condemn you condone" ?

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:53 pm

Ziz wrote:This one is aimed at crediting Muslims for their sterling work and bravo to that. If certain people can't handle that then shame on them.

No it's not, it's a pop at certain members here.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:This one is aimed at crediting Muslims for their sterling work and bravo to that. If certain people can't handle that then shame on them.

No it's not, it's a pop at certain members here.

People who scorn charitable giving, surely not?


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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:57 pm

4EVER2 wrote:Excellent, and as with 'ALL' those types of charity groups not ever are they questioned by those NEEDY, as to their: faith - ethnicity - nationality ...but always a deeply felt & sincere TY and maybe a blessing in return!
And from the sub link in your article :


Homeless charity Crisis works to help rough sleepers over the Christmas period but stresses that help is needed all year around, while fellow charity Shelter estimates more than 250,000 people are homeless in England and in need of support.

Here are five practical ways you can make a difference.

1. Alert the professionals



Image copyright Birmingham Homeless Outreach Image caption  
Birmingham Homeless Outreach volunteers provide food, bedding and clothes to those on the streets
Shoppers and commuters pass by homeless people day after day but many may feel they do not know how to help. One of the simplest ways is to tell a professional.

Street Link is a government-funded service which allows people to alert local authorities in England and Wales about rough sleepers in need of support in their area.
"With the public's help, in the last 12 months we have put almost 11,000 people in touch with the support they needed to escape rough sleeping," says director Matt Harrison.  "We hope to have an even greater impact in 2017."

You can pick up the phone or use Street Link's website or app to enter details of the location, time and date you saw the person and any other information you have.

The service will contact professionals who will try to find them and help them access things like shelter and food.

2. Give time, not money



Image copyright Thinkstock Image caption  "Offer them food and if they don't take it they don't need it,"
says former rough sleeper Rik James
When someone on the street asks for money some give instinctively, while others struggle with what it might be spent on. For Rik James, who previously slept rough, money is not the answer.

"If they ask for money it's for one of two things - drugs or alcohol," says Mr James, who runs Birmingham Homeless Outreach.  "Offer them food and if they don't take it they don't need it."  It's his view that if a homeless person spends money on drugs then the person who gave them the cash is party to the substance abuse.
"Just come out with food and hot drinks," he adds. "Give them five minutes of your time, talk to them.  "I go out seven days a week with clothes and bedding. If you give them sleeping bags they just sell them."

3. Or give small things



Image copyright Thinkstock Image caption  Give a gift - a hat, gloves, or clean dry socks
If you choose not to give money to homeless people there are others things you can give to make a difference to their day.

"A lot of people doing a little is better than a few people doing a lot", is the motto of former armed serviceman Ian Northcott.  He founded Socks&Chocs in 2010 to collect warm and dry socks and chocolate for people on the streets of Birmingham.
When Mr Northcott was a soldier he often spent days in the field, tired, cold and wet. The Army insisted he put on a pair of clean, dry socks each day.
Mr Northcott says he did not realise the importance at first, but the simple pleasure of a warm pair of socks made a great deal of difference.
His charity aims to give the same feeling to homeless people struggling in the cold, along with chocolate to give them a boost.
This year the charity has given out 6,274 pairs of socks and 4,713 boxes of chocolate.
Other gift ideas which could make a difference include hand warmers, gloves, hats and books.

4. Remember furry friends



Image copyright Thinkstock Image caption  You could drop by some dog food for homeless people with canine companions
A four-legged friend can be some rough sleepers' only companion - and both owner and pet may be grateful of a kind gesture.
"If people want to help [a homeless person] with a dog by buying them some dog food, then we're sure it would always be appreciated," says Clare Kivlehan, head of outreach projects at The Dog's Trust.
She says the public could also put rough sleepers in touch with the charity's Hope Project, which provides free and subsidised veterinary treatment to dogs whose owners are homeless or in housing crisis.

The project also works with hostels and housing providers to encourage them to accept clients with dogs.
Ms Kivlehan adds: "Each year [the Hope Project] funds around 1,800 veterinary treatments to help dogs remain with their devoted owners... There are now over 150 dog friendly hostels nationwide."

5. Remember the 'hidden homeless'



Image copyright Birmingham Homeless Outreach Image caption  
The old Birmingham Central Library used to provide shelter for many homeless people in the city
When rough sleepers line the streets, their plight is painfully visible. But Roger Harding, campaign director at homeless charity Shelter, says there are many, many more people whose struggles are hidden.

"This Christmas, 120,000 children in Britain will be homeless," says Mr Harding. "Hidden away in hostels; sharing kitchens and bathrooms with strangers. Sharing a bedroom with the rest of their family."
He says people could encourage those at risk of losing their homes to call their helpline, which is open 365 days a year for advice and support.
The government's Homelessness Reduction Bill introduced in October places a duty on local authorities to help eligible people secure somewhere to live 56 days before they are threatened with homelessness.

Councils must also provide those who do find themselves homeless with support for another 56 days to help to secure accommodation.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38221721

There was an excellent article just recently written by a college young female college student; the perils of wearing her Habib - getting into trouble by her elders at home if she was seen/caught NOT WEARING it - getting ridiculed/harassed/threatened with violence/spit on by the American public for wearing it!

I'll see if I can find that article, it was so exhausting & frustrating that these people are being treated like this, especially the young children - the young ladies. 



http://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2011/07/why-is-the-dclg-funding-shelter.html

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:59 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ziz wrote:Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists.

So, can one take it that both you and 4ever promulgate the notion that

"if you dont condemn you condone"  ?

Some people are too afraid to speak out - look to Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia for reference - but in the UK there really is little excuse for allowing hatred to pass you by without comment.


Last edited by Ziz on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:03 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:02 pm

Ziz wrote:This one is aimed at crediting Muslims for their sterling work and bravo to that. If certain people can't handle that then shame on them.

Interesting reading ...how on any given day {or shift in the pervading winds or mood of the mods} that the topics will be whined about:
a.) not enough positive things to talk about
b.) oh, here's another hidden agenda topic that is just set up for BAITING
c.) why can't people just discuss the issues and act like adults
d.) why can't we all just get along

And here we goooooo again!  HA didn't write the News Media article ...I don't see any of the WHINERS bringing any thing of interest in here for discussion!  In fact when you look at their profile stats they really have very low bar numbers for topic starts - scratch   But those same whiners can ALWAYS be counted on to be the first to arrive and pounce on the genre - ridicule the article - screech and flap around like it's all fakery and false printed material and just really ruin the entire topic for those of us that GIVE A RATS ASS! 
WELL DONE!!!

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:04 pm

So what's to discuss? Some people do a nice thing - then what?

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:05 pm

nice sidestep..but I'm not thinking of the "scared"

both of you have made the point on this thread about "not speaking out"

and indeed YOU have made the point that you would consider those who dont speak out to be "indecent"

So....
do you or do you not promulgate and support the notion that "if you dont condemn you condone"


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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:08 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So what's to discuss? Some people do a nice thing - then what?

Don't you like talking about nice things?

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:09 pm

Lord Foul wrote:nice sidestep..but I'm not thinking of the "scared"

both of you have made the point on this thread about "not speaking out"

and indeed YOU have made the point that you would consider those who dont speak out to be "indecent"

So....
do you or do  you not promulgate and support the notion that "if you dont condemn you condone"


My answer is not a sidestep and it addresses your question fully - try reading it again.

Ziz wrote:Some people are too afraid to speak out - look to Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia for reference - but in the UK there really is little excuse for allowing hatred to pass you by without comment.

Perhaps it's a little too Christian for your taste?

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:14 pm

funny how you (and your comrades) NEVER give a striagt answer to a straight question....


yet base sweeping attitudes upon things like

"Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists."

I provide the above quote as evidence that indeed you do support said notion



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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:17 pm

Lord Foul wrote:funny how you (and your comrades) NEVER give a striagt answer to a straight question....


yet base sweeping attitudes upon things like

"Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists."

I provide the above quote as evidence that indeed you do support said notion



When I want you to speak for me I'll let you know - meanwhile my own words remain clear for all but those who cannot or will not hear.

But yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists - try it, you might like it.


Last edited by Ziz on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:21 pm

Lord Foul wrote:funny how you (and your comrades) NEVER give a striagt answer to a straight question....yet base sweeping attitudes upon things like

"Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists."

I provide the above quote as evidence that indeed you do support said notion
And your REDUNDANT approach to goad a reply that suits your emotional need to ignite yet another community forum bonfire is as always ...LAME and unjust!  But it's what you do and you enjoy the ability to harangue and bully the members with your continued boring pretentious questions! 
Take your attitude and go find another ball park ...this lady isn't playing your immature games anymore!
ASKED AND ANSWERED AND I DON'T THINK YOU NEED A BROKEN RECORD REJOINDER!  Razz 

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:25 pm

so ..

given that your perspective is that those who dont condemn condone


do I actually have to say anything about the O/P for instance?

since by that philosophy my silence "condones" the actions in the O/P?

or do I actually have to loudly proclaim the "good actions and loudly decry the bad"

which then leads to "who decides which or what is good or bad" and Do I have any say in said choice?

_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:27 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:funny how you (and your comrades) NEVER give a striagt answer to a straight question....yet base sweeping attitudes upon things like

"Yes, anyone with any decency would speak out against the haters and their apologists."

I provide the above quote as evidence that indeed you do support said notion
And your REDUNDANT approach to goad a reply that suits your emotional need to ignite yet another community forum bonfire is as always ...LAME and unjust!  But it's what you do and you enjoy the ability to harangue and bully the members with your continued boring pretentious questions! 
Take your attitude and go find another ball park ...this lady isn't playing your immature games anymore!
ASKED AND ANSWERED AND I DON'T THINK YOU NEED A BROKEN RECORD REJOINDER!  Razz 

shove it

_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:29 pm

Lord Foul wrote:so ..

given that your perspective is that those who dont condemn condone


do I actually have to say anything about the O/P for instance?

since by that philosophy my silence "condones" the actions in the O/P?

or do I actually have to loudly proclaim the "good actions and loudly decry the bad"

which then leads to "who decides which or what is good or bad" and Do I have any say in said choice?

Those who promote hatred and division are bad - simple enough for you?

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:36 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
4EVER2 wrote:
And your REDUNDANT approach to goad a reply that suits your emotional need to ignite yet another community forum bonfire is as always ...LAME and unjust!  But it's what you do and you enjoy the ability to harangue and bully the members with your continued boring pretentious questions! 
Take your attitude and go find another ball park ...this lady isn't playing your immature games anymore!
ASKED AND ANSWERED AND I DON'T THINK YOU NEED A BROKEN RECORD REJOINDER!  Razz 

shove it

And that is what you do best - the typical adult response ... 

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:37 pm

no since that then requires the careful deliniation of just what one is supposed hate (or not) and divide from(or not)

your argument suffers from lack of specificity....

for instance, as a fairly extreme example, it would, one assumes, be OK to hate paedophiles and seek to divide them from society?

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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:44 pm

Lord Foul wrote:no since that then requires the careful deliniation of just what one is supposed hate (or not) and divide from(or not)

your argument suffers from lack of specificity....

for instance, as a fairly extreme example, it would, one assumes, be OK to hate paedophiles and seek to divide them from society?

Then hate no-one - no deliniation required.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:57 pm

but then you would NEVER condemn,(since you do not condemn that which you do not hate) therby falling into the trap (by your philosophy) of condoning by default


_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:23 am

Lord Foul wrote:but then you would NEVER condemn,(since you do not condemn that which you do not hate) therby falling into the trap (by your philosophy) of condoning by default


I hate no-one but I condemn those that do - pretty easy to understand - condemnation does not require hate. And contributing to the overwhelming pool of hate that plagues the world simply adds to its problems.

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:33 am

Ziz wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:but then you would NEVER condemn,(since you do not condemn that which you do not hate) therby falling into the trap (by your philosophy) of condoning by default


I hate no-one but I condemn those that do - pretty easy to understand - condemnation does not require hate. And contributing to the overwhelming pool of hate that plagues the world does nothing for no-one.

condemnation requires dislike of, as a very minimum, at what point does that morph imto hate? are there shades of "hate". can one mans dislike be anothers hate?

is it fair to condemn one who speaks of his dislike of something as one who hates?
clearly we cannot be bound by simplistic dictionary definitions, which are by their very nature bound within very limited horizons

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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:50 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Ziz wrote:

I hate no-one but I condemn those that do - pretty easy to understand - condemnation does not require hate. And contributing to the overwhelming pool of hate that plagues the world does nothing for no-one.

condemnation requires dislike of, as a very minimum, at what point does that morph imto hate? are there shades of "hate". can one mans dislike be anothers hate?

is it fair to condemn one who speaks of his dislike of something as one who hates?
clearly we cannot be bound by simplistic dictionary definitions, which are by their very nature bound within very limited horizons

Moral judgement does NOT require ego-centric emotions - where did you get that idea from?  scratch

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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:00 am

ah...well now then...moral judgements....... a slightly different kettle of fish methinks.....

who's morals

are there, in reality any absolute morals, and who gets to define them?

and, whats worse....how do you tell the difference between a "good" or a "bad" moral
(would that be, between immoral and immoral....I dont think so)

since whats good or bad depends entirely upon ones POV.(and that of ones "society" of course...which likely shapes the individulas POV)

which also leads me to ponder if an "amoral" individual would not be seen equally as bad by the two
extremes of "good morality and bad morality" (from whichever side you see it )




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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Muslims spreading christmas cheer

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:07 am

Ziz wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

condemnation requires dislike of, as a very minimum, at what point does that morph imto hate? are there shades of "hate". can one mans dislike be anothers hate?

is it fair to condemn one who speaks of his dislike of something as one who hates?
clearly we cannot be bound by simplistic dictionary definitions, which are by their very nature bound within very limited horizons

Moral judgement does NOT require ego-centric emotions - where did you get that idea from?  scratch


I'm not sure what you actually mean by this ...?


Can you elaborate a bit and provide a couple of examples so as I am able to fully understand the point you are trying to make?


Thanks...

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