Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

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Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by sassy on Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:41 pm

Mr Corbyn says the populist right has identified the right problems but has 'toxic' solutions

Europe’s centre-left parties must reject the establishment – or watch the populist far-right win across the continent, Jeremy Corbyn has warned.
In a speech to Labour’s European sister parties, at the Party of European Socialists conference in Prague, the Labour leader warned that the populist right had correctly identified problems with the prevailing economic model.
But he argued the solutions of those anti-immigrant, anti-EU, and anti-Islam parties were only “toxic dead ends” that would not solve people’s problems.

Mr Corbyn’s comments come a day before Austria votes in a rerun of its presidential election – in which a far-right Norbert Hofer could be on the verge of victory.
Other countries across Europe have also seen extreme right-wingers poised to take power, with the Freedom Party leading in the polls in Austria and the Front National set to make the final round of the French presidential election. 
“Politics has been shaken across the world. As socialists and progressives, we know very well why the populist right is gaining ground, and it is up to us to offer the political leadership needed for a real alternative,” Mr Corbyn told other leaders on Saturday.
“We know the gap between rich and poor is widening; we know living standards are stagnating or falling and insecurity is growing; we know that many people rightly feel left behind by the forces unleashed by globalisation, powerless in the face of deregulated corporate power.

“In many cases the populist right do identify the right problems, but their solutions are toxic dead ends of the past.
“They are political parasites feeding off people’s concerns and worsening conditions, blaming the most vulnerable for society’s ills instead of offering a way for taking back real control of our lives the elites who serve their own interests.
“But unless progressive parties and movements break with a failed economic and political establishment, it is the siren voices of the populist far right that will fill the gap.”
Mr Corbyn also called for centre-left parties to work together across the continent to come to the best solution on Brexit negotiations.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-socialist-centre-left-leader-eu-party-of-european-socialists-a7453066.html


Clinging on to middle way that has been rejected by so many and used by the establishment to hold people down will work again.   We have to counter the regressive extreme RW or they will drag us back to war and fascism.

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:12 pm

strewth, the man has finally woken up to what must be the bitter truth
I mean I agree with him...on both the issues he mentions
BUT he had best ask himself WHY this sad state of affairs came to pass

the fact we had years of little more than "pink washed tories" as the official labor party certainly carries a whole lot of blame.

then of course we have the likes of the "gang" on here.....

who all confused like...blame te rise of the right......on the right??

duh...how does THAT work

you have two ideologies vying for power granted from a loosely aggregate population

and one side gains an advantage.....

and its THEIR fault for doing so????


thats like blaming the race winner for the guy who lost?????

the right have gained ground...because the left had/have NO convincing arguments as to what to do, their arguments are (especially after nu labour) as dry as dust and about as palatable (whatever their virtues)

the rights arguments Clearly, since folks are listening and thus supporting them, sound good....(whatever thier inherent evils)

the left made the mistake of thinking "individuals"
It dont work like that
voteing is a group activity, however far te "group" may be dispersed and the intelligence of the group is in inverse relationship to the number in that group.
I.E the bigger the group...the dafter

AND they also made the biggest mistake in thinking people analyze and vote logically and thats just plain dumb

PERCEPTIONS are what matter....and if you cant tackle "misperceptions" in any other way than as advocated by scrat sassy HA et al....

you are on to a loser...

lets face it

your policy may be all shiney and sparkly....and very appealing to someone with at least half a brain

but anyone reading your posts is likely to gain the perception that actually....you represent a very nasty bunch of people....
you can only argue via lies smears and such like.....

perceptions matter.......

as it is I reckon scrat is the best recruiter the right has








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There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by sassy on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:33 pm

“They are political parasites feeding off people’s concerns and worsening conditions, blaming the most vulnerable for society’s ills instead of offering a way for taking back real control of our lives the elites who serve their own interests.
“But unless progressive parties and movements break with a failed economic and political establishment, it is the siren voices of the populist far right that will fill the gap.”


That's why we will fight them.   That's why we will back JC to the hilt, because we will not allow the LP to return to the 'not quite Tory' position Blair took it to, and that's why we elected JC in the first place.

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:42 pm

if you had a decent argument to put down then there would not be a problem....right??
If you had realistic solutions there would not be a problem .....right?

If the PERCEPTION was that you (labour) could in any way be trusted there wouldnt be a problem ....right?

the whole freaking mess is NOT a tribute to the rights success
It is a wholesale condemnation of the lefts Failure

vis

there is a problem (and there is a BIG problem) with europe

lefts answer...MORE EUROPE

there are both real and percieved (and no one can deny it) probelms with mismanaged uncontrolled immigration

lefts answer

MORE mismanaged and uncontrolled immigration

and so on and so forth

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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:03 am

LF, you must know there's a lot more work to do for the left than just that.

The left must become less cozy with global corporations -- that's true. Mind you, that means the left leadership; the left base (if I can speak for it) has always been uncomfortable with cozying up with globalists. Of course, we're usually faced with a choice of bad vs. evil when it comes to leadership.

But the populist right is infected with erroneous beliefs about nearly every important issue, from crime to immigration to trade to global warming to other cultures, more than any version of the right has ever been before. That should be blamed on the right and its leadership, which has never really pushed back against the kind of falsehoods we see the right believing as a matter of faith.

We have a member here, I don't think I have to name him, who everyone would probably accept as being pretty typical of the populist right. Just look at the stuff he comes out with. You can't blame the left for everything he doesn't know or everything he believes that is simply untrue.

So really, the left has to not only unlink from global corporatists and elites, it also has to find a way to fight a growing bloc of voters who've decided that whatever makes them feel better is true. No small task.

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:18 am

The problem for the voter is to put it bluntly not so much to decide between the turd or the rose

as to decide which, for them, is the least smelly turd

I suspect few, except the die hard types actually vote for a party they LIKE, they vote for the one they DIsLIKE the LEAST

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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:29 am

Bae the Cray wrote:LF, you must know there's a lot more work to do for the left than just that.

The left must become less cozy with global corporations -- that's true. Mind you, that means the left leadership; the left base (if I can speak for it) has always been uncomfortable with cozying up with globalists. Of course, we're usually faced with a choice of bad vs. evil when it comes to leadership.

But the populist right is infected with erroneous beliefs about nearly every important issue, from crime to immigration to trade to global warming to other cultures, more than any version of the right has ever been before. That should be blamed on the right and its leadership, which has never really pushed back against the kind of falsehoods we see the right believing as a matter of faith.

We have a member here, I don't think I have to name him, who everyone would probably accept as being pretty typical of the populist right. Just look at the stuff he comes out with. You can't blame the left for everything he doesn't know or everything he believes that is simply untrue.

So really, the left has to not only unlink from global corporatists and elites, it also has to find a way to fight a growing bloc of voters who've decided that whatever makes them feel better is true. No small task.

Oh I can though...the left have has a strangle hold on education (via teaching unions and university "educators" and post grad prats) for donkeys years

our erstwhile disbeleiver is a PRODUCT of leftist education

one which values failure as much as winning
one that considers "bein fick" as being as valid as being educated
one that thinks non streamed non selective so called "mixed ability" education is both as efficient and as good as streamed selective education
and that mixed ability does justice to all levels from top to bottom, whilst the glaring reality is that It doesnt...the two groups most in NEED of "encouragement and extra "teacher time" DONT get it.( just to ward off that brain dead idiot (bolivia)scrat, the two groups most in need are the top and the bottom tiers..)




_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:15 am

sassy wrote:Mr Corbyn says the populist right has identified the right problems but has 'toxic' solutions

Europe’s centre-left parties must reject the establishment – or watch the populist far-right win across the continent, Jeremy Corbyn has warned.
In a speech to Labour’s European sister parties, at the Party of European Socialists conference in Prague, the Labour leader warned that the populist right had correctly identified problems with the prevailing economic model.
But he argued the solutions of those anti-immigrant, anti-EU, and anti-Islam parties were only “toxic dead ends” that would not solve people’s problems.


Mr Corbyn’s comments come a day before Austria votes in a rerun of its presidential election – in which a far-right Norbert Hofer could be on the verge of victory.
Other countries across Europe have also seen extreme right-wingers poised to take power, with the Freedom Party leading in the polls in Austria and the Front National set to make the final round of the French presidential election. 
“Politics has been shaken across the world. As socialists and progressives, we know very well why the populist right is gaining ground, and it is up to us to offer the political leadership needed for a real alternative,” Mr Corbyn told other leaders on Saturday.
“We know the gap between rich and poor is widening; we know living standards are stagnating or falling and insecurity is growing; we know that many people rightly feel left behind by the forces unleashed by globalisation, powerless in the face of deregulated corporate power.

“In many cases the populist right do identify the right problems, but their solutions are toxic dead ends of the past.
“They are political parasites feeding off people’s concerns and worsening conditions, blaming the most vulnerable for society’s ills instead of offering a way for taking back real control of our lives the elites who serve their own interests.
“But unless progressive parties and movements break with a failed economic and political establishment, it is the siren voices of the populist far right that will fill the gap.”
Mr Corbyn also called for centre-left parties to work together across the continent to come to the best solution on Brexit negotiations.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-socialist-centre-left-leader-eu-party-of-european-socialists-a7453066.html


Clinging on to middle way that has been rejected by so many and used by the establishment to hold people down will work again.   We have to counter the regressive extreme RW or they will drag us back to war and fascism.



What is so wrong with wanting a secular and sovereign national uk govt, free from the eu, and with control over immigration policy..?

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:14 am

sassy wrote:Mr Corbyn says the populist right has identified the right problems but has 'toxic' solutions

Europe’s centre-left parties must reject the establishment – or watch the populist far-right win across the continent, Jeremy Corbyn has warned.
In a speech to Labour’s European sister parties, at the Party of European Socialists conference in Prague, the Labour leader warned that the populist right had correctly identified problems with the prevailing economic model.
But he argued the solutions of those anti-immigrant, anti-EU, and anti-Islam parties were only “toxic dead ends” that would not solve people’s problems.


Mr Corbyn’s comments come a day before Austria votes in a rerun of its presidential election – in which a far-right Norbert Hofer could be on the verge of victory.
Other countries across Europe have also seen extreme right-wingers poised to take power, with the Freedom Party leading in the polls in Austria and the Front National set to make the final round of the French presidential election. 
“Politics has been shaken across the world. As socialists and progressives, we know very well why the populist right is gaining ground, and it is up to us to offer the political leadership needed for a real alternative,” Mr Corbyn told other leaders on Saturday.
“We know the gap between rich and poor is widening; we know living standards are stagnating or falling and insecurity is growing; we know that many people rightly feel left behind by the forces unleashed by globalisation, powerless in the face of deregulated corporate power.

“In many cases the populist right do identify the right problems, but their solutions are toxic dead ends of the past.
“They are political parasites feeding off people’s concerns and worsening conditions, blaming the most vulnerable for society’s ills instead of offering a way for taking back real control of our lives the elites who serve their own interests.
“But unless progressive parties and movements break with a failed economic and political establishment, it is the siren voices of the populist far right that will fill the gap.”
Mr Corbyn also called for centre-left parties to work together across the continent to come to the best solution on Brexit negotiations.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-socialist-centre-left-leader-eu-party-of-european-socialists-a7453066.html


Clinging on to middle way that has been rejected by so many and used by the establishment to hold people down will work again.   We have to counter the regressive extreme RW or they will drag us back to war and fascism.


Also... how are these (so called) 'centre left partys' supposed to 'reject the establishment'...!!!???

When it is these very same (so called) 'centre left partys' who are the establishment!!!




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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:46 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Bae the Cray wrote:LF, you must know there's a lot more work to do for the left than just that.

The left must become less cozy with global corporations -- that's true. Mind you, that means the left leadership; the left base (if I can speak for it) has always been uncomfortable with cozying up with globalists. Of course, we're usually faced with a choice of bad vs. evil when it comes to leadership.

But the populist right is infected with erroneous beliefs about nearly every important issue, from crime to immigration to trade to global warming to other cultures, more than any version of the right has ever been before. That should be blamed on the right and its leadership, which has never really pushed back against the kind of falsehoods we see the right believing as a matter of faith.

We have a member here, I don't think I have to name him, who everyone would probably accept as being pretty typical of the populist right. Just look at the stuff he comes out with. You can't blame the left for everything he doesn't know or everything he believes that is simply untrue.

So really, the left has to not only unlink from global corporatists and elites, it also has to find a way to fight a growing bloc of voters who've decided that whatever makes them feel better is true. No small task.

Oh I can though...the left have has a strangle hold on education (via teaching unions and university "educators" and post grad prats) for donkeys years

our erstwhile disbeleiver is a PRODUCT of leftist education

one which values failure as much as winning
one that considers "bein fick" as being as valid as being educated
one that thinks non streamed non selective so called "mixed ability" education is both as efficient and as good as streamed selective education
and that mixed ability does justice to all levels from top to bottom, whilst the glaring reality is that It doesnt...the two groups most in NEED of "encouragement and extra "teacher time" DONT get it.( just to ward off that brain dead idiot (bolivia)scrat, the two groups most in need are the top and the bottom tiers..)




So that lefty education system has taught this guy to believe in crazy conspiracy theories, to not evaluate information, that being dumb is just as good as being knowledgeable?

MAYBE in the UK. And I say "maybe" because I think you're grossly exaggerating and stereotyping, possibly basing your view of the modern education system in the UK on a collection of media horror stories.

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:35 pm

Bae the Cray wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

Oh I can though...the left have has a strangle hold on education (via teaching unions and university "educators" and post grad prats) for donkeys years

our erstwhile disbeleiver is a PRODUCT of leftist education

one which values failure as much as winning
one that considers "bein fick" as being as valid as being educated
one that thinks non streamed non selective so called "mixed ability" education is both as efficient and as good as streamed selective education
and that mixed ability does justice to all levels from top to bottom, whilst the glaring reality is that It doesnt...the two groups most in NEED of "encouragement and extra "teacher time" DONT get it.( just to ward off that brain dead idiot (bolivia)scrat, the two groups most in need are the top and the bottom tiers..)




So that lefty education system has taught this guy to believe in crazy conspiracy theories, to not evaluate information, that being dumb is just as good as being knowledgeable?

MAYBE in the UK. And I say "maybe" because I think you're grossly exaggerating and stereotyping, possibly basing your view of the modern education system in the UK on a collection of media horror stories.


No he is right the education system was too intent on making sure it was completely politically correct, no Baa Baa Black Sheep and every school must have multiple copies of Janey lives with Dick and Tom or some such nonsense. As so many schools are multicultural is isn't fair on children that don't have English as a first language so lessons are pitched at the least able, no ability streaming or competition as its not fair on the losers and least able. Everyone must feel they are equally clever and able. So yes our kids learn that being dumb is as good as being able and if you can get a statement and a label for your kid even better.
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:22 pm

not to mention that they are ALL of course "precious little snowflakes"

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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by eddie on Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:45 pm

I've worked in schools, in classrooms and behind the scenes as a school governor.
There are certain guidelines and policies that schools have to adhere to and one big one is "inclusion". This policy is simply to ensure that all children and all abilities are taken into consideration.
I feel this is the right way to go.

So this is why, children will be given reading books that include characters of different colours and religions and sexes - I've yet to come across a transgender book or a book depicting two parents of the same sex, though.

I don't feel this is wrong.

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:01 pm

inclusion is all very well and great if taught as a social theory, even a distincly desirable social theory
It si NOT OK when it permeates the "system"

and in order to take all abilities into consideration, just lumps them all together as a grey featureless lump into which one pumps the same gloop.

IF schools were to "take into consideration" different abilities there would be NO "mixed ability teaching"
nor would there be "SATS" etc.


NOR would we be in te situation where virtually every job needed a "degree" of some sort, and degrees would not be something any one (virtually) could acheive...
Nor would we have every job needing some fancy title

waste removal technician = dustman...with (likely a degree in dustmanning)



what we have ended up with is that the staus of "degree holder" has been reduced to "oh yeah? another one of them huh?"

FFS a degree in hair styling?


_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by eddie on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:05 pm

You kinda just contradicted yourself. The reason why there's mixed ability teaching is because of mixed abilities or different abilities. Not all humans learn in the same way.
Key stage 1 SAT's are just ways of the government putting labels on people and bumping figures up. No teacher I've ever met, thinks they do anything positive for the child.

Why make a 7 years old, sit an exam?

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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:09 pm

eddie wrote:You kinda just contradicted yourself. The reason why there's mixed ability teaching is because of mixed abilities or different abilities. Not all humans learn in the same way.


Sorry eddie ...I disagree...whats wrong with streaming the kids sorting them out into different ability groups and teaching each to the limit of their ability
rather than engendering a one size fits all which benefits nobody to the fullest extent.

Key stage 1 SAT's are just ways of the government putting labels on people and bumping figures up. No teacher I've ever met, thinks they do anything positive for the child.

Why make a 7 years old, sit an exam?

_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Lord Foul
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Re: Reject the establishment or watch the far-right take over, Corbyn tells Europe's centre-left leaders

Post by eddie on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:15 pm

They do get streamed! Sorry, I think we have crossed lines. The idea behind Mixed abilities is teaching  children within their particular sets, top, usually two middle levels, a lower ability level and sometimes, special needs.

In all honesty, it's the middle set that are usually either failed completely and ignored, or they have all the attention during SAT's time so that they can be "moved up" a level (making statistics look nicer for the school).
I bought this topic up time and time again as a govenor but I never really got an satisfactory answers.

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eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

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