Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Go down

Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by eddie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:23 pm

Should Hillary Clinton Call for a Recount?

There’s a case to be made for routine election audits—but not for spreading unsubstantiated claims or speculation about the outcome of an election.

Daniel Lombroso and Yoni Appelbaum
President-elect Donald Trump is assembling a team of advisors and cabinet officials, but calls for Hillary Clinton to demand a recount of the presidential election results have not subsided.

A New York Magazine article published on Tuesday added to that furor when it declared: “Hillary Clinton is being urged by a group of prominent computer scientists and election lawyers to call for a recount in three swing states won by Donald Trump,” asserting that the group of individuals in question “believes they’ve found persuasive evidence that results in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania may have been manipulated or hacked.”

The report has subsequently fueled speculation on social media that the vote count might have been compromised—despite the fact that the report itself emphasized that “the group has not found proof of hacking or manipulation”—as well as demands for a recount. “Please challenge the vote, Hillary. Something is not right here,” one Twitter user implored. “The most frightening thing that could happen is if we turn a blind eye and act like something isn’t completely wrong,” another user ominously tweeted.

It’s not surprising that voters desperate to stop Trump from becoming the next president could be convinced that the election was rigged. Cyber security experts have expressed confidence that Russia directed the hacks of emails from the Democratic National Committee that were subsequently published by WikiLeaks. In October, the Obama administration publicly announced that “disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks … are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts,” and added that “these thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.”

Meanwhile, Clinton’s lead in the popular vote continues to grow, and recently surpassed more than two million votes, contributing to a sense among Clinton supporters that Trump’s victory is unfair and does not reflect the will of the people.


More: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/clinton-vote-recount-audit-hacking/508655/

_________________
“Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons ”
― Anon.
eddie
eddie
King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!

Posts : 37151
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 48
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:41 pm

If she doesn't, there will always be that cloud over the Trump presidency. Imagine seeing this posted in every Post Office in the land...

Donald Trump, 45th president*

*Elected with the aid of the Kremlin.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by magica on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:45 pm

Why is it when they don't get the result they want, they all want a recount.

No there shouldn't be, like there shouldn't be another vote for Brexit, its done now, move on.

They cant pick and choose what bits they don't like in a vote.
magica
magica

Posts : 3041
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:46 pm

If genuine fraud can be established then of course the election should be rerun - to do otherwise undermines the democratic process.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:57 pm

magica wrote:Why is it when they don't get the result they want, they all want a recount.

No there shouldn't be, like there shouldn't be another vote for Brexit, its done now, move on.

They cant pick and choose what bits they don't like in a vote.

Do you want to toss out democracy, too?  We know he lost the popular vote by a count of 1.7-million votes.  There are certain quantitative anomalies that don't add up in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  The statistical experts are telling us those states were rigged, and legal experts are saying the results are questionable.

Unless the US wants to go down as just another Banana Republic, the integrity of elections should be of the highest priority.  Otherwise--seeing the success of this rigged election--attempts to rig elections will become commonplace and democracy will be no more.

Brexit is a separate matter.  I haven't heard the evidence on that vote, and I surmise by the silence, there is no similar question.


Last edited by Original Quill on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
magica wrote:Why is it when they don't get the result they want, they all want a recount.

No there shouldn't be, like there shouldn't be another vote for Brexit, its done now, move on.

They cant pick and choose what bits they don't like in a vote.

Do you want to toss out democracy, too?  We know he lost the popular vote by a count of 1.7-million votes.  There are certain quantitative anomalies that don't add up in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  The statistical experts are telling us those states were rigged, and legal experts are saying the results are questionable.

Unless the US wants to go down as just another Banana Republic, the integrity of elections should be of the highest priority.  Otherwise, attempts to rig elections will become commonplace and democracy will be no more.

Brexit is a separate matter.  I haven't heard the evidence on that vote, and I surmise by the silence, there is no similar question.

The Brexit vote was not binding - so is a different order of magnitude.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:09 pm

Ziz wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Do you want to toss out democracy, too?  We know he lost the popular vote by a count of 1.7-million votes.  There are certain quantitative anomalies that don't add up in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  The statistical experts are telling us those states were rigged, and legal experts are saying the results are questionable.

Unless the US wants to go down as just another Banana Republic, the integrity of elections should be of the highest priority.  Otherwise, attempts to rig elections will become commonplace and democracy will be no more.

Brexit is a separate matter.  I haven't heard the evidence on that vote, and I surmise by the silence, there is no similar question.

The Brexit vote was not binding - so is a different order of magnitude.

Thank you...I have been trying to point that out to my UK friends til I'm blue.  

Nevertheless, when any election can be rigged, all elections can be rigged...regardless of what is at stake.  The real question is: do you want to encourage election-fixing as a means of determining political success in the future?  

I can just imagine Putin and Trump on their first get-together:

Putin: I told you democracy not worth shit!

Trump: Anything can be bought, vlad!


_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:19 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Ziz wrote:

The Brexit vote was not binding - so is a different order of magnitude.

Thank you...I have been trying to point that out to my UK friends til I'm blue.  

Nevertheless, when any election can be rigged, all elections can be rigged...regardless of what is at stake.  The real question is: do you want to encourage election-fixing as a means of determining political success?  

I can just imagine Putin and Trump on their first get-together:

Putin: I told you democracy not worth shit!

Trump: Anything can be bought!


Exactly so - and the answer from some political ne'er-do-wells appears to be, "it's fine when we're winning." Rolling Eyes

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by eddie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:12 pm

The Brexit vote was still a fairly-won vote.
This article speaks of fraudulent activities which could affect the actual outcome of the vote.

There's a world of difference.

_________________
“Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons ”
― Anon.
eddie
eddie
King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!

Posts : 37151
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 48
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:20 pm

Ziz wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Do you want to toss out democracy, too?  We know he lost the popular vote by a count of 1.7-million votes.  There are certain quantitative anomalies that don't add up in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  The statistical experts are telling us those states were rigged, and legal experts are saying the results are questionable.

Unless the US wants to go down as just another Banana Republic, the integrity of elections should be of the highest priority.  Otherwise, attempts to rig elections will become commonplace and democracy will be no more.

Brexit is a separate matter.  I haven't heard the evidence on that vote, and I surmise by the silence, there is no similar question.

The Brexit vote was not binding - so is a different order of magnitude.


From the government referendum info booklet/leaflet sent out to every household before the vote...


An important decision for the UK

On Thursday, 23 June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU).

It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come.


A once in a generation decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk

_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
Tommy Monk
Tommy Monk

Posts : 22058
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:22 pm

The leaflet isn't law - the referendum did not bind the executive.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ziz wrote:

The Brexit vote was not binding - so is a different order of magnitude.


From the government referendum info booklet/leaflet sent out to every household before the vote...


An important decision for the UK

On Thursday, 23 June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU).

It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come.


A once in a generation decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk

We've read the leaflet, tommy. We know your argument; the leaflet doesn't legitimize any more that it is. There is this referendum, and it never had an enabling clause. Tough luck. The guys who arranged this dance, didn't know how to dance. Evil or Very Mad

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by eddie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:48 pm

This isn't about Brexit. Rolling Eyes

_________________
“Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons ”
― Anon.
eddie
eddie
King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!

Posts : 37151
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 48
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 pm

eddie wrote:This isn't about Brexit. Rolling Eyes

I think magica brought up Brexit, and tommy wants to pursue that line of thought. You must admit, both the election of Trump and Brexit have that strain of unorthodox populism in them, and that makes people wonder if they shouldn't look twice at the result.

But I agree, I don't see the comparison. There are serious questions about anomalies in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. I've heard no such detail about Brexit.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by eddie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:59 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:This isn't about Brexit. Rolling Eyes

I think magica brought up Brexit, and tommy wants to pursue that line of thought.  You must admit, both the election of Trump and Brexit have that strain of unorthodox populism in them, and that makes people wonder if they shouldn't look twice at the result.

But I agree, I don't see the comparison.  There are serious questions about anomalies in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  I've heard no such detail about Brexit.

Exactly. There are serious questions about the U.S voting in those states....not so with Brexit; that's about the decision, about what to do, about the voting!

_________________
“Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons ”
― Anon.
eddie
eddie
King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!

Posts : 37151
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 48
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:17 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:This isn't about Brexit. Rolling Eyes

I think magica brought up Brexit, and tommy wants to pursue that line of thought.  You must admit, both the election of Trump and Brexit have that strain of unorthodox populism in them, and that makes people wonder if they shouldn't look twice at the result.

But I agree, I don't see the comparison.  There are serious questions about anomalies in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  I've heard no such detail about Brexit.

Exactly. There are serious questions about the U.S voting in those states....not so with Brexit; that's about the decision, about what to do, about the voting!

Both Brexit and Trump's "election" are awfully good outcomes for Putin as well.

_________________
Ben: "I think it's Pinot Noir mixed with Shiraz."

Eddie: "It's shit mixed with vomit."
>THE Ben Reilly<
>THE Ben Reilly<
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. Enemy of the American people.

Posts : 25612
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Essex

View user profile http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:33 am

Bae the Cray wrote:
eddie wrote:

Exactly. There are serious questions about the U.S voting in those states....not so with Brexit; that's about the decision, about what to do, about the voting!

Both Brexit and Trump's "election" are awfully good outcomes for Putin as well.

Point well taken. I'm sure the programmers will reverse-engineer any shenanigans, and if they lead to the Kremlin, loud noises will be heard.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by magica on Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:This isn't about Brexit. Rolling Eyes

I think magica brought up Brexit, and tommy wants to pursue that line of thought.  You must admit, both the election of Trump and Brexit have that strain of unorthodox populism in them, and that makes people wonder if they shouldn't look twice at the result.

But I agree, I don't see the comparison.  There are serious questions about anomalies in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  I've heard no such detail about Brexit.

I did Quill just to say that because the outcome isn't to elitist pleasure, they want another vote.

Not saying Brexit is to do with America, just making similarities.
magica
magica

Posts : 3041
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:40 pm

Perhaps Hillary could claim that the result of the election was just "advisory". Razz

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
Raggamuffin
Raggamuffin

Posts : 32759
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:46 pm

magica wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think magica brought up Brexit, and tommy wants to pursue that line of thought.  You must admit, both the election of Trump and Brexit have that strain of unorthodox populism in them, and that makes people wonder if they shouldn't look twice at the result.

But I agree, I don't see the comparison.  There are serious questions about anomalies in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  I've heard no such detail about Brexit.

I did Quill just to say that because the outcome isn't to elitist pleasure, they want another vote.

Not saying Brexit is to do with America, just making similarities.  

I understood you. Tommy has picked up the theme since then.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Should Hillary Clinton call for a recount?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps Hillary could claim that the result of the election was just "advisory". Razz

I don't think there will be any consequence on this election as a result of the recount. America has a history of not complaining about election manipulations. It's generally chalked up to local politics, and not seem for the national implications.

The closest they came was 2000, questioning the Florida count. But people remember: the governor of Florida at the time, we now call low-energy Jeb.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 27469
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum