Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

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Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by eddie on Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:11 pm

Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

An agony aunt from a leading teen magazine has apologised after saying a girl was a "willing player" in her own rape because she got drunk and stayed at a boy's house.

The columnist, Kelly Chopard, responded to a young girl who wrote to her 'Dear Kelly' column in Teenage magazine, a bestseller in Singapore, explaining how she had lied to her mother in order to sleep at the boy’s house.

She drank wine for the first time and woke up with no recollection of the night before. Finding she had been raped, the young girl explained how she was too scared to tell her mother.

“I drank wine for the first time... then there was cuddling and kissing and he started undressing me," she said. "I had too much to drink and did not protest.

“I don’t remember anything after this and the next morning, I found myself naked in bed with him and he said, ‘Wow! I didn’t know you were a virgin, honey!’”

The agony aunt, who the magazine said is known for her 'tough love and no nonsense advice', replied and said:

"You are expected to know what happens when a girl agrees to stay over at a guy's house when only the two of them are in residence, you can't blame him for thinking a sexual connection was all right with you."

She said that by drinking, dancing and kissing the boy, the girl "gave every indication" that she was "a willing player in his unfolding seduction plan."

"I don't blame him for thinking you were not a virgin," she added. "You acted like a girl who has been around."

The columnist ended by saying that the girl should be “grateful that he wore a condom” so there was no fear of pregnancy or contracting a sexually transmitted infection.

Credit: saraxjanelle/dayre.me
The response shocked many on social media and provoked a number of complaints on the magazine’s Facebook wall. Since the outrage, both the agony aunt and the publication have apologised.

"I sincerely apologise if my response to 'Raped after lying to mum' came across as harsh and 'blaming the victim,'" Ms Chopard wrote on the Teenage website.

"Please believe me when I say I am profoundly sorry for teenagers who are vulnerable and often "naïve" as I stressed, more than once, in my response in this case."

"I don't blame him for thinking you were not a virgin," she added. "You acted like a girl who has been around."

The columnist ended by saying that the girl should be “grateful that he wore a condom” so there was no fear of pregnancy or contracting a sexually transmitted infection.

Credit: saraxjanelle/dayre.me
The response shocked many on social media and provoked a number of complaints on the magazine’s Facebook wall. Since the outrage, both the agony aunt and the publication have apologised.

"I sincerely apologise if my response to 'Raped after lying to mum' came across as harsh and 'blaming the victim,'" Ms Chopard wrote on the Teenage website.

"Please believe me when I say I am profoundly sorry for teenagers who are vulnerable and often "naïve" as I stressed, more than once, in my response in this case."




Wow. Well I think this is terrible advice and a terrible way to talk to an obviously distressed, young girl.

Agree or disagree?

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:44 pm

Harsh, but a lot of what she said was true.
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by eddie on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:01 pm

Miffs2 wrote:Harsh, but a lot of what she said was true.

Okay I'm listening....

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:04 pm

eddie wrote:
Miffs2 wrote:Harsh, but a lot of what she said was true.

Okay I'm listening....

Oh come on!
On her own with him, drinking, lying to her mother about her wear abouts?
What did she think would happen?
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by eddie on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:06 pm

Well I don't suppose she thought she'd be raped???!

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by eddie on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:14 pm

So, if I had a date and I drank some wine and then went to back this guy's house....should I be expected that I'm going to say yes to sex and if I don't, he can have it anyway?

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Syl on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:40 pm

eddie wrote:Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

An agony aunt from a leading teen magazine has apologised after saying a girl was a "willing player" in her own rape because she got drunk and stayed at a boy's house.

The columnist, Kelly Chopard, responded to a young girl who wrote to her 'Dear Kelly' column in Teenage magazine, a bestseller in Singapore, explaining how she had lied to her mother in order to sleep at the boy’s house.

She drank wine for the first time and woke up with no recollection of the night before. Finding she had been raped, the young girl explained how she was too scared to tell her mother.

“I drank wine for the first time... then there was cuddling and kissing and he started undressing me," she said. "I had too much to drink and did not protest.

“I don’t remember anything after this and the next morning, I found myself naked in bed with him and he said, ‘Wow! I didn’t know you were a virgin, honey!’”

The agony aunt, who the magazine said is known for her 'tough love and no nonsense advice', replied and said:

"You are expected to know what happens when a girl agrees to stay over at a guy's house when only the two of them are in residence, you can't blame him for thinking a sexual connection was all right with you."

She said that by drinking, dancing and kissing the boy, the girl "gave every indication" that she was "a willing player in his unfolding seduction plan."

"I don't blame him for thinking you were not a virgin," she added. "You acted like a girl who has been around."

The columnist ended by saying that the girl should be “grateful that he wore a condom” so there was no fear of pregnancy or contracting a sexually transmitted infection.

Credit: saraxjanelle/dayre.me
The response shocked many on social media and provoked a number of complaints on the magazine’s Facebook wall. Since the outrage, both the agony aunt and the publication have apologised.

"I sincerely apologise if my response to 'Raped after lying to mum' came across as harsh and 'blaming the victim,'" Ms Chopard wrote on the Teenage website.

"Please believe me when I say I am profoundly sorry for teenagers who are vulnerable and often "naïve" as I stressed, more than once, in my response in this case."

"I don't blame him for thinking you were not a virgin," she added. "You acted like a girl who has been around."

The columnist ended by saying that the girl should be “grateful that he wore a condom” so there was no fear of pregnancy or contracting a sexually transmitted infection.

Credit: saraxjanelle/dayre.me
The response shocked many on social media and provoked a number of complaints on the magazine’s Facebook wall. Since the outrage, both the agony aunt and the publication have apologised.

"I sincerely apologise if my response to 'Raped after lying to mum' came across as harsh and 'blaming the victim,'" Ms Chopard wrote on the Teenage website.

"Please believe me when I say I am profoundly sorry for teenagers who are vulnerable and often "naïve" as I stressed, more than once, in my response in this case."




Wow. Well I think this is terrible advice and a terrible way to talk to an obviously distressed, young girl.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree mostly.
OK she could have been a tad more sympathetic because the girl was obviously incredibly naive, and the boy should have taken the girls drunken condition into account and not proceeded even though he obviously thought she was a willing participant....and in truth she was, it just went further than she expected.

However there is no point crying about it the next day, her actions were one of a girl 'up for it',....she didn't protest (which would have been a completely different matter) and he didn't force himself on her.
He was probably young and drunk too.

I wouldn't call it rape....I think the girl was willing because she had drunk too much. Hopefully next time she will look after herself better.

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:47 pm

eddie wrote:So, if I had a date and I drank some wine and then went to back this guy's house....should I be expected that I'm going to say yes to sex and if I don't, he can have it anyway?

I think if you don't want sex, you make it clear and keep yourself sober enough to keep yourself safe.
It's too easy to blame him in this situation, she has to take responsibility too. She was naive, but really what did she think was going to happen?
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:49 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

An agony aunt from a leading teen magazine has apologised after saying a girl was a "willing player" in her own rape because she got drunk and stayed at a boy's house.

The columnist, Kelly Chopard, responded to a young girl who wrote to her 'Dear Kelly' column in Teenage magazine, a bestseller in Singapore, explaining how she had lied to her mother in order to sleep at the boy’s house.

She drank wine for the first time and woke up with no recollection of the night before. Finding she had been raped, the young girl explained how she was too scared to tell her mother.

“I drank wine for the first time... then there was cuddling and kissing and he started undressing me," she said. "I had too much to drink and did not protest.

“I don’t remember anything after this and the next morning, I found myself naked in bed with him and he said, ‘Wow! I didn’t know you were a virgin, honey!’”

The agony aunt, who the magazine said is known for her 'tough love and no nonsense advice', replied and said:

"You are expected to know what happens when a girl agrees to stay over at a guy's house when only the two of them are in residence, you can't blame him for thinking a sexual connection was all right with you."

She said that by drinking, dancing and kissing the boy, the girl "gave every indication" that she was "a willing player in his unfolding seduction plan."

"I don't blame him for thinking you were not a virgin," she added. "You acted like a girl who has been around."

The columnist ended by saying that the girl should be “grateful that he wore a condom” so there was no fear of pregnancy or contracting a sexually transmitted infection.

Credit: saraxjanelle/dayre.me
The response shocked many on social media and provoked a number of complaints on the magazine’s Facebook wall. Since the outrage, both the agony aunt and the publication have apologised.

"I sincerely apologise if my response to 'Raped after lying to mum' came across as harsh and 'blaming the victim,'" Ms Chopard wrote on the Teenage website.

"Please believe me when I say I am profoundly sorry for teenagers who are vulnerable and often "naïve" as I stressed, more than once, in my response in this case."

"I don't blame him for thinking you were not a virgin," she added. "You acted like a girl who has been around."

The columnist ended by saying that the girl should be “grateful that he wore a condom” so there was no fear of pregnancy or contracting a sexually transmitted infection.

Credit: saraxjanelle/dayre.me
The response shocked many on social media and provoked a number of complaints on the magazine’s Facebook wall. Since the outrage, both the agony aunt and the publication have apologised.

"I sincerely apologise if my response to 'Raped after lying to mum' came across as harsh and 'blaming the victim,'" Ms Chopard wrote on the Teenage website.

"Please believe me when I say I am profoundly sorry for teenagers who are vulnerable and often "naïve" as I stressed, more than once, in my response in this case."




Wow. Well I think this is terrible advice and a terrible way to talk to an obviously distressed, young girl.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree mostly.
OK she could have been a tad more sympathetic because the girl was obviously incredibly naive, and the boy should have taken the girls drunken condition into account and not proceeded even though he obviously thought she was a willing participant....and in truth she  was, it just went further than she expected.

However there is no point crying about it the next day, her actions were one of a girl 'up for it',....she didn't protest (which would have been a completely different matter) and he didn't force himself on her.
He was probably young and drunk too.

I wouldn't call it rape....I think the girl was willing because she had drunk too much. Hopefully next time she will look after herself better.

I think you are right Syl.
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Syl on Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:07 pm

Miffs2 wrote:
Syl wrote:

Disagree mostly.
OK she could have been a tad more sympathetic because the girl was obviously incredibly naive, and the boy should have taken the girls drunken condition into account and not proceeded even though he obviously thought she was a willing participant....and in truth she  was, it just went further than she expected.

However there is no point crying about it the next day, her actions were one of a girl 'up for it',....she didn't protest (which would have been a completely different matter) and he didn't force himself on her.
He was probably young and drunk too.

I wouldn't call it rape....I think the girl was willing because she had drunk too much. Hopefully next time she will look after herself better.

I think you are right Syl.

And I think you are Miffs. Cool

I have no time for people who blame the victim, but I don't think this girl was.
I would go so far as to say had the boy been charged with rape HE would have been the victim.


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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:35 pm

Syl wrote:
Miffs2 wrote:

I think you are right Syl.

And I think you are Miffs. Cool

I have no time for people who blame the victim, but I don't think this girl was.
I would go so far as to say had the boy been charged with rape HE would have been the victim.


I would never victim blame apart from anything else it would cost me my job! You are right though this isn't rape and I don't believe he is guilty of any crime .
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by eddie on Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:43 pm

Miffs2 wrote:
eddie wrote:So, if I had a date and I drank some wine and then went to back this guy's house....should I be expected that I'm going to say yes to sex and if I don't, he can have it anyway?

I think if you don't want sex, you make it clear and keep yourself sober enough to keep yourself safe.
It's too easy to blame him in this situation, she has to take responsibility too. She was naive, but really what did she think was going to happen?

Perhaps she simply though they might kiss and cuddle and indulge in some light foreplay? I feel sorry for girls in this situation actually but I can see how difficult it is to draw the line in sexual relations such as this.

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:09 pm

This is merely a lesson many young people have to learn the hard way. There for the grace of God and all that. Hands up those who never got pissed as a teenager and sneaked/suffered a grope? No takers? Thought not.

In this case things went too far. The pair of them should have their heads banged together.
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Syl on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:15 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:This is merely a lesson many young people have to learn the hard way.   There for the grace of God and all that.   Hands up those who never got pissed as a teenager and sneaked/suffered a grope?  No takers?  Thought not.  

In this case things went too far.   The pair of them should have their heads banged together.

I certainly never sneaked one....but I agree most young people probably do suffer advances they don't welcome ..pissed or sober.

I think the drinking culture has a lot to answer for....no woman should ever have a man force himself on her, but ALL women should also be responsible enough to make sure they are not too drunk to say NO.

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:17 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:This is merely a lesson many young people have to learn the hard way.   There for the grace of God and all that.   Hands up those who never got pissed as a teenager and sneaked/suffered a grope?  No takers?  Thought not.  

In this case things went too far.   The pair of them should have their heads banged together.

I certainly never sneaked one....but I agree most young people probably do suffer advances they don't welcome ..pissed or sober.

I think the drinking culture has a lot to answer for....no woman should ever have a man force himself on her, but ALL women should also be responsible enough to make sure they are not too drunk to say NO.

Me neither. But I had them sneaked on me. Most girls do. Don't you remember boys being like an octopus? No? Must have been the curtains!
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:19 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:This is merely a lesson many young people have to learn the hard way.   There for the grace of God and all that.   Hands up those who never got pissed as a teenager and sneaked/suffered a grope?  No takers?  Thought not.  

In this case things went too far.   The pair of them should have their heads banged together.

I certainly never sneaked one....but I agree most young people probably do suffer advances they don't welcome ..pissed or sober.

I think the drinking culture has a lot to answer for....no woman should ever have a man force himself on her, but ALL women should also be responsible enough to make sure they are not too drunk to say NO.

Cheap booze and long licensing hours. Who'd be a teenager now, huh? I remember when a bottle of Woodpecker had to do between 6 of us!!!
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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Syl on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:22 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

I certainly never sneaked one....but I agree most young people probably do suffer advances they don't welcome ..pissed or sober.

I think the drinking culture has a lot to answer for....no woman should ever have a man force himself on her, but ALL women should also be responsible enough to make sure they are not too drunk to say NO.

Me neither.  But I had them sneaked on me.   Most girls do.   Don't you remember boys being like an octopus?   No?  Must have been the curtains!

Yes I met the odd octopus (pre curtain days obs) I even dished out the odd face slap, which would probably be considered very un pc nowadays. Cool .

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Syl on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:23 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

I certainly never sneaked one....but I agree most young people probably do suffer advances they don't welcome ..pissed or sober.

I think the drinking culture has a lot to answer for....no woman should ever have a man force himself on her, but ALL women should also be responsible enough to make sure they are not too drunk to say NO.

Cheap booze and long licensing hours.  Who'd be a teenager now, huh?   I remember when a bottle of Woodpecker had to do between 6 of us!!!

Cherry B was my drink of choice...and the bottle was so small no one asked to share. Razz

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:26 pm

desserts disease

aka roaming palms

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Re: Agony aunt accused of victim-blaming after telling teen girl she 'led her rapist on'

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:33 am

eddie wrote:
Well I don't suppose she thought she'd be raped???!

.
scratch          WAS she actually raped, in reality ?
There was no complaint, no investigation, no charges laid...


We only have her word that she was even, in truth,   "raped" --  girl gets drunk, gets laid, wakes up hungover with poor recollections --  what's the odds it would then become a 'she said/he said..' situation, if later reported to police ?  

I find it hard to believe she was so naive, to begin with --  and with a teen girl writing to a teen magazine, online -- what's the bet she's also embellishing and fuzzying her story, just a bit ?
No doubt she felt so "grown up", drinking and spending the night with the boy..          Question


Boys can be just as vulnerable as the girls in such situations --  if the girl changes her mind after the event, then there's legal ramifications, charges and investigations, possible convictions and jail time -- and a criminal record (and sex crime records, in some jurisdictions..).

And, why are so many women so uninterested and unperturbed, whenever innocent males are falsely convicted and punished, often enough for crimes never committed..        Suspect

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