Tory Benefit Cap

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Those who work and earn money should always be much better off than those who don't. They have to do as they're told, they can't just sit around deciding if they're going to to any housework or pay any attention to their kid.

I'm all for raising the living standards of the poor - glad to have you along.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:59 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

Caring for a family is certainly a worthwhile 'job'.
The old fashioned way was that women had babies and brought them up and men worked to provide.
Times changed and both parents worked and hired child minders.
Now some people expect the state (ie you and me) to raise their children....something went wrong somewhere.

Cant let the children suffer, Syl, no matter what the changes, they have no choices.

Not the ones that are already here no, but some benefits paid out in vouchers might spur some parents on to find work.
Capping child allowances at two children in future may be a good contraceptive also.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:01 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Cant let the children suffer, Syl, no matter what the changes, they have no choices.

Not the ones that are already here no, but some benefits paid out in vouchers might spur some parents on to find work.
Capping child .at two children in future may be a good contraceptive also.

The voucher thing hasn't really worked in the US.

BIB - I doubt that - plus we desperately need cannon and factory fodder.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:04 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

Not the ones that are already here no, but some benefits paid out in vouchers might spur some parents on to find work.
Capping child .at two children in future may be a good contraceptive also.

The voucher thing hasn't really worked in the US.

BIB - I doubt that - plus we desperately need cannon and factory fodder.

Blimey Ziz...where has your compassionate side gone to now?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:05 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

The voucher thing hasn't really worked in the US.

BIB - I doubt that - plus we desperately need cannon and factory fodder.

Blimey Ziz...where has your compassionate side gone to now?

They're adults by then - compassion adjusted accordingly.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:09 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

Blimey Ziz...where has your compassionate side gone to now?

They're adults by then - compassion adjusted accordingly.

But it's the adults who are claiming all the benefits that can afford them a better lifestyle than the people who are working hard for a living.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:13 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

They're adults by then - compassion adjusted accordingly.

But it's the adults who are claiming all the benefits that can afford them a better lifestyle than the people who are working hard for a living.

Then raise wages - level up, not down.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:20 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

But it's the adults who are claiming all the benefits that can afford them a better lifestyle than the people who are working hard for a living.

Then raise wages - level up, not down.

That would put many small businesses out of work and still not discourage benefit scroungers.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Spindleshanks on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Those who work and earn money should always be much better off than those who don't. They have to do as they're told, they can't just sit around deciding if they're going to to any housework or pay any attention to their kid.

They are better off when comparing like with like. A single non working person lives on about £300 per month, half of what the person in your example does.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:25 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Then raise wages - level up, not down.

That would put many small businesses out of work and still not discourage benefit scroungers.

Give the small businesses tax breaks if they are struggling - just like they allow for big businesses.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Spindleshanks on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:27 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Spindleshanks wrote:

Like I said, it depends on where they live.  A flat in London will be way more than that, in other parts of the country flats can be easily found much closer to that, some even below £400 per month in the north of the country.

They do have more disposable income, they only have themself to keep which means any money they earn after paying the usual is theirs.  

So you think they should move somewhere cheaper and leave their job, or travel further and pay more in travel costs? Why can't the person on benefits move somewhere cheaper? What if the working person wants a garden? They should be able to have one as they work hard, right?

You said about £600 per month left over. That's not much is it? They have to pay council tax, bills, transport, food etc, before they have anything left to enjoy themselves after working all week. Why should they scrape by when they have to work all week whilst someone on benefits can do nothing and get almost as much? Effort should be rewarded IMO.

Isn't this what is being told to people on top up benefits in receipt of housing benefits in places like London with the benefit cap?

£600 is about £150 per week just for one person. The woman in the previous comment with about the same would have that for 3 people if she has two kids. Who is worse off?


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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:28 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

That would put many small businesses out of work and still not discourage benefit scroungers.

Give the small businesses tax breaks if they are struggling - just like they allow for big businesses.

I cant really see that happening at present, can you?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:31 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Give the small businesses tax breaks if they are struggling - just like they allow for big businesses.

I cant really see that happening at present, can you?

Only because of class warfare and political expediency.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:51 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

I cant really see that happening at present, can you?

Only because of class warfare and political expediency.

Whatever, we have to discuss the problems in regard to the world we live in now.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:01 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Only because of class warfare and political expediency.

Whatever, we have to discuss the problems in regard to the world we live in now.

If ordinary people had done that historically we'd have no rights and concessions - always dare to dream.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Jules on Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:46 am

Lord Foul wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

You know, people these days just don't make the effort.    Marriages/relationships don't just stroll along on their own and when you choose to bring a life into the world you have certain responsibilities that should not be shunned.  What amazes me in this day and age is that it's so easy to marry/divorce/cheat on each other and yet all that free contraception and they keep having kids they can't afford or commit fully to.   All those feckless men should be made to pay for each and every child they spawn.
and all those feckless women, who should learn to keep their legs together.....
as soon as issues like this raise their heads out come the  "all men are monsters" brigade in full cry.....as said elsewhere...it takes two to tango.....

I've never seen any woman saying "all men are monsters".  Laughing  They'd be condemning half the world's population, which is quite an extreme thing to do.   And it would be bizarre to generalise about men like this.  Where do you encounter the strange women who say such weird things?  I thought it was just an urban myth that women uttered such a phrase.

In any case I think everyone should avoid making sentences which start with the word "ALL" cos by definition they'd be generalising. And making sweeping generalisations is always so wrong.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:23 am

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

That would put many small businesses out of work and still not discourage benefit scroungers.


Give the small businesses tax breaks if they are struggling - just like they allow for big businesses.

Arrow

IF  a small business is a genuinely 'viable' and well-managed enterprise, then that business can afford to pay a decent "living wage" to its employees..

If it can't afford to pay decent wages, than it simply isn't a viable concern.
In which case, the useless dumbfuck running it should get the hell out of that particular niche --  and let somebody more knowledgeable/practical/sensible have a go.         tongue

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:29 am

Jules wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
and all those feckless women, who should learn to keep their legs together.....
as soon as issues like this raise their heads out come the  "all men are monsters" brigade in full cry.....as said elsewhere...it takes two to tango.....

I've never seen any woman saying "all men are monsters".  Laughing  They'd be condemning half the world's population, which is quite an extreme thing to do.   And it would be bizarre to generalise about men like this.  Where do you encounter the strange women who say such weird things?  I thought it was just an urban myth that women uttered such a phrase.

In any case I think everyone should avoid making sentences which start with the word "ALL" cos by definition they'd be generalising.   And making sweeping generalisations is always so wrong.

Idea

There were three female contributors on this very forum, who several months ago were pushing the hoary old lines that only men are rapists, only men are responsible for domestic violence, only women are victims of domestic violence...

And those same three haridans were then lambasting and attacking any males here, who had the temerity to point out that those three were basically spouting misandrist crappola..

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:14 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Jules wrote:

I've never seen any woman saying "all men are monsters".  Laughing  They'd be condemning half the world's population, which is quite an extreme thing to do.   And it would be bizarre to generalise about men like this.  Where do you encounter the strange women who say such weird things?  I thought it was just an urban myth that women uttered such a phrase.

In any case I think everyone should avoid making sentences which start with the word "ALL" cos by definition they'd be generalising.   And making sweeping generalisations is always so wrong.

Idea

There were three female contributors on this very forum, who several months ago were pushing the hoary old  lines that only men are rapists, only men are responsible for domestic violence, only women are victims of domestic violence...

And those same three haridans were then lambasting and attacking any males here, who had the temerity to point out that those three were basically spouting misandrist crappola..

Liar. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Jules on Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:53 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Jules wrote:

I've never seen any woman saying "all men are monsters".  Laughing  They'd be condemning half the world's population, which is quite an extreme thing to do.   And it would be bizarre to generalise about men like this.  Where do you encounter the strange women who say such weird things?  I thought it was just an urban myth that women uttered such a phrase.

In any case I think everyone should avoid making sentences which start with the word "ALL" cos by definition they'd be generalising.   And making sweeping generalisations is always so wrong.

Idea

There were three female contributors on this very forum, who several months ago were pushing the hoary old  lines that only men are rapists, only men are responsible for domestic violence, only women are victims of domestic violence...

And those same three haridans were then lambasting and attacking any males here, who had the temerity to point out that those three were basically spouting misandrist crappola..

Obviously this was before my time cos I never encountered those women. And yes, it was quite absurd for them to allegedly say women are never domestically violent and never sexual predators.

HOWEVER that is a very different issue from saying "ALL men are monsters/brutes". The two issues have nothing in common, other than the fact that both assertions are absurd.

Apologies for going offtopic, but I just had to reply to your post.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:55 pm

Jules wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Idea

There were three female contributors on this very forum, who several months ago were pushing the hoary old  lines that only men are rapists, only men are responsible for domestic violence, only women are victims of domestic violence...

And those same three haridans were then lambasting and attacking any males here, who had the temerity to point out that those three were basically spouting misandrist crappola..

Obviously this was before my time cos I never encountered those women. And yes,  it was quite absurd for them to allegedly say  women are never domestically violent and never sexual predators.  

HOWEVER that is a very different issue from saying "ALL men are monsters/brutes".  The two issues have nothing in common, other than the fact that both assertions are absurd.

Apologies for going offtopic, but I just had to reply to your post.
And just to put the record straight I will reply to your post Jules.

NO ONE here has ever said women could not be violent or sexual predators.
No one has said that only women suffer from domestic violence.
No one has ever said all men are monsters and brutes....how ridiculous.

Of course if Wolf would care to prove he is not a bare faced liar he will show the posts he claims were said.
Don't hold your breath though. Rolling Eyes

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