Tory Benefit Cap

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:00 pm

Ziz wrote:Not a problem - simply build more affordable homes.


But it is the cause of the problem!!!


Mass immigration doesn't just cost more houses... it needs provision of all the rest of the infrastructure and public services to accommodate it... at huge costs!!!


Or we could just stop mass immigration... the easy option and cheaper option and less damaging option...

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:29 pm

Ziz wrote:Not a problem - simply build more affordable homes.

What is an "affordable home"? If more houses were built, they'd all be affordable according to you.


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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:31 pm

Affordable homes. Ha ha ha What are these things?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:35 pm

Ziz wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I have to say that some of the statements in that article are clearly provocative.


Hyperbolic?

Like this statement:

Billions of pounds in welfare is housing benefit, so the 'recipients' never see it as cash. Instead it goes straight to landlords, some of them reaping a property boom.

The implication is that housing benefit shouldn't be included when talking about how much people get in benefits. People who work, however, have to pay housing costs, so they have to put that amount aside and not spend it.

The more the Government is prepared to pay in housing benefit/allowance, the more landlords will ask for, and the more rent will go up for everyone. That's why it's important to put a cap on housing benefit/allowance.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:Not a problem - simply build more affordable homes.

What is an "affordable home"? If more houses were built, they'd all be affordable according to you.


Where did I say that?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ziz wrote:Not a problem - simply build more affordable homes.


But it is the cause of the problem!!!


Mass immigration doesn't just cost more houses... it needs provision of all the rest of the infrastructure and public services to accommodate it... at huge costs!!!


Or we could just stop mass immigration... the easy option and cheaper option and less damaging option...

How can having adequate housing stock be a problem?


Last edited by Ziz on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Hyperbolic?

Like this statement:

Billions of pounds in welfare is housing benefit, so the 'recipients' never see it as cash. Instead it goes straight to landlords, some of them reaping a property boom.

The implication is that housing benefit shouldn't be included when talking about how much people get in benefits. People who work, however, have to pay housing costs, so they have to put that amount aside and not spend it.

The more the Government is prepared to pay in housing benefit/allowance, the more landlords will ask for, and the more rent will go up for everyone. That's why it's important to put a cap on housing benefit/allowance.

It's the Mirror - don't read cheap rags if you want objective truth.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:54 pm

Take a person who lives on their own and earns the "national living wage" for a 40 hour week. That's £288 per week, £14,976 per year, and that's before tax and NI. After those are taken off, they earn about £13,351 per year or £1,113 per month. Not only have they paid tax to pay for those who don't work, they probably don't have a lot left after paying their rent, bills, and council tax. They also probably have travel expenses to get to work. Can they get benefits to top up their income?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:54 pm

Ziz wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Like this statement:



The implication is that housing benefit shouldn't be included when talking about how much people get in benefits. People who work, however, have to pay housing costs, so they have to put that amount aside and not spend it.

The more the Government is prepared to pay in housing benefit/allowance, the more landlords will ask for, and the more rent will go up for everyone. That's why it's important to put a cap on housing benefit/allowance.

It's the Mirror - don't read cheap rags if you want objective truth.

This whole thread is based on an article in The Mirror. Perhaps you should have kept off it then.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:

It's the Mirror - don't read cheap rags if you want objective truth.

This whole thread is based on an article in The Mirror. Perhaps you should have kept off it then.

No, I don't mind slumming it with you folks.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:58 pm

What's wrong with the Mirror anyway?
The articles they print are usually covered somewhere in the broadsheets...just without the pictures. Razz

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:00 pm

Ziz wrote:No idea, can they?

I don't know.

They wouldn't need them if housing costs weren't so high - they would get to keep more of the income that they actually earned instead of expecting others to pay for them.

If they can't, it's absurd for people to bleat on about only getting £345 per week in benefits or whatever, and moaning that they actually have to pay something towards the rent.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:04 pm

Syl wrote:What's wrong with the Mirror anyway?
The articles they print are usually covered somewhere in the broadsheets...just without the pictures. Razz

Yes, the pictures are a help.


Last edited by Ziz on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:No idea, can they?

I don't know.

They wouldn't need them if housing costs weren't so high - they would get to keep more of the income that they actually earned instead of expecting others to pay for them.

If they can't, it's absurd for people to bleat on about only getting £345 per week in benefits or whatever, and moaning that they actually have to pay something towards the rent.

True.

More affordable homes are what is needed, including more social housing for those who cannot afford to buy or part-purchase.


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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:07 pm

Major wrote:People who slag off a particular newspapuz need to realise that some have the same news items as each other.

Not the same slant though - or indeed the same quality of reporting.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:10 pm

Ziz wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know.

They wouldn't need them if housing costs weren't so high - they would get to keep more of the income that they actually earned instead of expecting others to pay for them.

If they can't, it's absurd for people to bleat on about only getting £345 per week in benefits or whatever, and moaning that they actually have to pay something towards the rent.

True.

More affordable homes are what is needed, including more social housing for those who cannot afford to buy or part-purchase.

Well we don't have them, and in the meantime some people are raking in the benefits whilst those who actually get off their arses and work are getting less than those on benefits or are not getting much more compared to what they have to do to earn their money.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:10 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:What's wrong with the Mirror anyway?
The articles they print are usually covered somewhere in the broadsheets...just without the pictures. Razz

Yes, the pictures are a help.

I'm glad you find them so. rabbit

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:11 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Yes, the pictures are a help.

I'm glad you find them so. rabbit

I'm no snob, I take help where I find it. Smile

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:

True.

More affordable homes are what is needed, including more social housing for those who cannot afford to buy or part-purchase.

Well we don't have them, and in the meantime some people are raking in the benefits whilst those who actually get off their arses and work are getting less than those on benefits or are not getting much more compared to what they have to do to earn their money.

Wouldn't take long to build them.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:12 pm

I think some people are missing the point here. Why do they think it's fair that those who don't work get as much or more than those who do?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:14 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

I'm glad you find them so. rabbit

I'm no snob, I take help where I find it. Smile

Good attitude to have. I tend to read several different news sources (easy online) to get a more rounded picture of what the true story is.
I still think the 'Mail' is the best paper to get forum juices flowing though. Razz

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I think some people are missing the point here. Why do they think it's fair that those who don't work get as much or more than those who do?

Most people don't think that...I certainly don't.
Where is the incentive to work hard and better yourself if people can do just as well by sitting on their arses all day?

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:21 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I think some people are missing the point here. Why do they think it's fair that those who don't work get as much or more than those who do?

Most people don't think that...I certainly don't.
Where is the incentive to work hard and better yourself if people can do just as well  by sitting on their arses all day?

It's more a question of not living off the tax payers really. Those who work don't necessarily "better" themselves. There's never any gratitude for the benefits those people get, they just whine about it because they want more.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:22 pm

Ziz wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well we don't have them, and in the meantime some people are raking in the benefits whilst those who actually get off their arses and work are getting less than those on benefits or are not getting much more compared to what they have to do to earn their money.

Wouldn't take long to build them.

I bet they'd all go to those on benefits anyway, not those who actually work for a living.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:26 pm

Major wrote:!000s of houses are being built around here NOW

Not enough though, else there wouldn't be a housing problem.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Wouldn't take long to build them.

I bet they'd all go to those on benefits anyway, not those who actually work for a living.

You need to see Ladbrokes about that, it's not a vice I indulge in.




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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:28 pm

Major wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Not enough though, else there wouldn't be a housing problem.

There is enough for our own people.

Not for my people there isn't.


Last edited by Ziz on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:29 pm

I think I'll just ignore Ziz.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:30 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

I'm no snob, I take help where I find it. Smile

Good attitude to have. I tend to read several different news sources (easy online) to get a more rounded picture of what the true story is.
I still think the 'Mail' is the best paper to get forum juices flowing though. Razz

The Mail is absolutely vital for our brave keyboard warriors. Smile

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I think some people are missing the point here. Why do they think it's fair that those who don't work get as much or more than those who do?

I care more about peoples' needs, not gossiping-class concepts of fairness.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Most people don't think that...I certainly don't.
Where is the incentive to work hard and better yourself if people can do just as well  by sitting on their arses all day?

It's more a question of not living off the tax payers really. Those who work don't necessarily "better" themselves. There's never any gratitude for the benefits those people get, they just whine about it because they want more.

Well I do think people work to better themselves...as in afford a better lifestyle than if they didn't bother.
Which makes a mockery of this when people seem to be able to live a more comfortable life by not working.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:49 pm

Ziz wrote:
Syl wrote:

Good attitude to have. I tend to read several different news sources (easy online) to get a more rounded picture of what the true story is.
I still think the 'Mail' is the best paper to get forum juices flowing though. Razz

The Mail is absolutely vital for our brave keyboard warriors. Smile

We all enter into the spirit of a good old 'Mail' driven story Ziz.....you included.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Wouldn't take long to build them.

I bet they'd all go to those on benefits anyway, not those who actually work for a living.
Exactly what weird variation of Christianity is it that you follow, Raggs?
Certainly not the loving caring and generous .Church of England religion I was brought up  surrounded by.


Last edited by Handy Andy on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:53 pm

Syl wrote:
Ziz wrote:

The Mail is absolutely vital for our brave keyboard warriors. Smile

We all enter into the spirit of a good old 'Mail' driven story Ziz.....you included.

In my case only to guide the unenlightened down the path of righteousness. grin angel

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:01 pm

Handy Andy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I bet they'd all go to those on benefits anyway, not those who actually work for a living.
Exactly what weird variation of Christianity is it that you follow, Raggs?
Certainly not the loving caring and generous .Church of England religion I was brought up  surrounded by.

Do not troll me about my faith - it's against the rules.

I see you don't care about those who actually work and don't earn much. I expect you're on benefits yourself.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:04 pm

Oh goody - Christians vs Lions.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:17 pm

Ziz wrote:
Major wrote:!000s of houses are being built around here NOW

Not enough though, else there wouldn't be a housing problem.


Too much immigration has caused the problem... not just in housing but pressure on all other public services!



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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:21 pm

Major wrote:People who slag off a particular newspapuz need to realise that some have the same news items as each other.

Same items, different perspectives. I'd rather read something unbiased, personally.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:25 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ziz wrote:

Not enough though, else there wouldn't be a housing problem.


Too much immigration has caused the problem... not just in housing but pressure on all other public services!



Too many old.
Too many fat.
Too many sick.
Too many poor.
Etc ad nauseam.

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:27 pm

No... too many immigrants...

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No... too many immigrants...

More homes - housing problem solved.


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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:31 pm

if they chased down all the scummy buggers who practice the vile "tax avoidance" and made em pay the propper amount the gains would likely be 10x the cost of benefits....

whilst not illegal tax avoidance is more immoral than prostitution

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:32 pm

No... less immigration is the solution...



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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:33 pm

and take the provision of rented housing totally out of the private sector, simply confiscate the property of anyone with more than one or two properties up for rent....

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Re: Tory Benefit Cap

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No... less immigration is the solution...



Can't be - less immigration does not mean more homes - the problem is now, not tomorrow. Now if more people were to die of cold this winter....


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