Brexit under threat

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Brexit under threat

Post by magica on Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

What was the point of voting if it can be reversed?

Bet the luvvies and handwringers will be jumping up and down now, wetting themselves with excitement.

Had it been the other way round, nothing would've changed. Can we have another vote to kick conservative out of government and put UKIP in, no chance!

If its changed then I wont vote no more. This country is becoming a Dictatorship. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:35 pm

I'm not being naive... it's more like you are so twisted and corrupt that you think it's right and normal to have a dictatorship with a thin veneer of democracy...instead of having an actual democracy where the govt enact the will of the people as is intended...

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I'm not being naive... it's more like you are so twisted and corrupt that you think it's right and normal to have a dictatorship with a thin veneer of democracy...instead of having an actual democracy where the govt enact the will of the people as is intended...

It is what it is - it has never had my approval.

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:42 pm

But it had your complicity... as you have admited earlier
..

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:But it had your complicity... as you have admited earlier
..

I'm a hired hand - I have to eat.

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:48 pm



With no morals where money is concerned... Obviously...



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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

With no morals where money is concerned... Obviously...



It's a capitalist society, we exploit the resources we have available to our best advantage - don't blame me, I didn't invent the system.

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:53 pm

Just following orders eh...?


Now where have we heard that before...?

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Just following orders eh...?


Now where have we heard that before...?

Just taking the money would be more accurate.

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:06 pm



And enabling anti democracy and corruption...


Funny how the lefties bleat against these things while being so entrenched in enabling them...


'Quantum thinking' anyone?

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Maybe you should look up the meaning of democracy (demos cratos)... and then explain how a democratically elected govt does not have a duty to enact the will of the electorate... as you seem to think it works?

Tommy, there are two theories of representative democracy: (1) to effect, immediately and reflexively, the will of the people (pure democracy); and (2) to effect (what you feel is) the best interests of the people (best interests or elitist democracy).  If the first is your theory of democracy, why not just give everyone a wi-fi 'yes/no' button, and do away with Parliament altogether?  And, by the way, who is to frame the questions if you take this option?

On the other hand, if you take the 'best interests' theory, you do so with the conviction that you know what is best, over others.  There is an elitism about the 'best interest' theory that is not present in the pure democracy theory.  There is the assumption that people in government are an elite cadre, who, like doctors, practice with special knowledge, and are the elite decision-makers.  Leave decisions in their hands, this theory says, and you deliver the best interests of the people.

Now let's stop all the excitement and analyze the situation.  You have a Tory government.  Tories are most comfortable with the elitist democratic form, as they have a natural elitism embedded in their philosophy.  The meritocracy notion of Adam Smith's theory says that you simply move the achievers over into government, and let them deliver the best interests of the people.

Brexit happens on the Tory watch, questioning Tory decisions.  This is a classic Tory response to a democratic uprising.  Calm, calm children...go sit in your rooms and don't dwell on it...dinner will be ready in an hour and you'll have forgotten about it by then.  The Tory elite is giving you time to calm yourselves, and then you will see the common sense of it all.

The only difference is, the uprising comes from a new development in world politics: a populist right wing.  What you are seeing is populism pushing now, not for the rural or worker's rights, but for the middle-class rights.  You are a part of that new populism, tommy.  You are indignant that the same rights that have always been afforded to the elite--which you were fine with back in those days--are not now given to you.  Politically, the situation now makes of you, and UKIP, the new rebels.

(If UKIP were really anything more than a populist uprising, Nigel Farage would have been prepared to take over, instead of running like a scared dog.  He doesn't know how to sit in the elitist chair, and it scares the shit out of him.)

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:59 pm

If the politicians are doing what they want rather than what the people want then that is a dictatorship... not a democracy...

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:If the politicians are doing what they want rather than what the people want then that is a dictatorship... not a democracy...

That's the classic populist thinking. In America, where they were doing and thinking about such things in 1775, states like Virginia were elitist, which explains why states like Pennsylvania and Massachusetts--the strong populists--drove the Revolution against Britain. They were--what did you guys call them? The Yankee Rebels.

Although RW and LW shift and sway, terms like elitist and populist never change. You are now being a populist, tommy. My only point is that there is a competing theory.

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

And enabling anti democracy and corruption...


Funny how the lefties bleat against these things while being so entrenched in enabling them...


'Quantum thinking' anyone?

I worked for Thatcher, well, Leon Brittan more directly - never once did I hear them complain about "leftieness" - now excuse me while I count the cash. Laughing

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:30 pm

Yawn...

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Re: Brexit under threat

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yawn...

Need a loan?

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