A Legal Executioner.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:26 pm

For some crimes yes, not for others.
On the other hand I actually don't have the stomach to do a job like that...so perhaps not.

I think I could kill someone that violently hurt or killed, someone I love, though.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:29 pm

No, but I couldn't do a lot of things that other people can.
I eat meat for instance, but I could never work in a slaughterhouse.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:30 pm

eddie wrote:For some crimes yes, not for others.
On the other hand I actually don't have the stomach to do a job like that...so perhaps not.

I think I could kill someone that violently hurt or killed, someone I love, though.


Yes I could do that too, I expect most people could.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:36 pm

So we are all in favor of capital punishment, it's just a matter of who and what for?

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:38 pm

I don't really know for sure Quill.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:So we are all in favor of capital punishment, it's just a matter of who and what for?

Yes....for the most heinous of crimes.
I have no desire to see people suffer in jail for the rest of their lives. It's expensive, but more importantly it prolongs the agony of the victims families.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:55 pm

Syl wrote: It's expensive, but more importantly it prolongs the agony of the victims families.

Are you talking about revenge? In what way are the victims' families relieved of their burdens if the convict is executed?

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:So we are all in favor of capital punishment, it's just a matter of who and what for?

Not me. We should not take that which we cannot give back.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote: It's expensive, but more importantly it prolongs the agony of the victims families.

Are you talking about revenge?  In what way are the victims' families relieved of their burdens if the convict is executed?

No, it's not revenge. Revenge is when people say the death penalty is too quick let them suffer. Oddly people who make that sort of comment see the death penalty as cruel.

I'm not sure if you know of the Moors murderers Hindley and Brady.
For decades their names have been continuously brought up in the press, each time compounding the grief the childrens families had to bare. Had they been hanged in the 60's none of that would have happened and their grief would have not been constantly refreshed,....it's still happening because Brady is still alive and still making news.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:17 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Are you talking about revenge?  In what way are the victims' families relieved of their burdens if the convict is executed?

No, it's not revenge. Revenge is when people say the death penalty is too quick let them suffer. Oddly people who make that sort of comment see the death penalty as cruel.

I'm not sure if you know of the Moors murderers Hindley and Brady.
For decades their names have been continuously brought up in the press, each time compounding the grief the childrens families had to bare. Had they been hanged in the 60's none of that would have happened and their grief would have not been constantly refreshed,....it's still happening because Brady is still alive and still making news.

No, I'm not familiar with Hindley and Brady.  But the victim's families will suffer grief regardless of whether or not the two are put to death, will they not?  After all, alive or dead, anyone can bring up the subject of their deeds.

I think it's important to call a spade a spade, so that we are not deceiving ourselves.  Ten years ago we used to antisepticize the act by saying, we give the victims closure.  Closure is what you do with a police file, so I believe they were confusing victims' grief with police workload.

I don't think any antiseptic will work.  It's revenge, plain and simple.  If it works to put it out of the victim's mind, so be it.  However, I suspect that simple passage of time will do the same.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

No, it's not revenge. Revenge is when people say the death penalty is too quick let them suffer. Oddly people who make that sort of comment see the death penalty as cruel.

I'm not sure if you know of the Moors murderers Hindley and Brady.
For decades their names have been continuously brought up in the press, each time compounding the grief the childrens families had to bare. Had they been hanged in the 60's none of that would have happened and their grief would have not been constantly refreshed,....it's still happening because Brady is still alive and still making news.

No, I'm not familiar with Hindley and Brady.  But the victim's families will suffer grief regardless of whether or not the two are put to death, will they not?  After all, alive or dead, anyone can bring up the subject of their deeds.

I think it's important to call a spade a spade, so that we are not deceiving ourselves.  Ten years ago we used to antisepticize the act by saying, we give the victims closure.  Closure is what you do with a police file, so I believe they were confusing victims' grief with police workload.

I don't think any antiseptic will work.  It's revenge, plain and simple.  If it works to put it out of the victim's mind, so be it.  However, I suspect that simple passage of time will do the same.

Obviously the families will always suffer and never forget, but it's made worse when the pictures of the people who tortured and killed their children are splashed over the papers at regular intervals, sometimes with sympathetic stories by well meaning do gooders as to why the murderer is so misunderstood.
Closure can never be achieved, it could be helped though imo.

It may mean revenge to you to sentence someone to death, it doesn't to me.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:28 pm

I don't think it necessarily means revenge either.


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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:29 pm

For the  death penalty , I would expect an admission of guilt before sentencing.
There have been a number of hgh profile miscarriages of justice in the UK because of lackadaisical/incompetent  or corrupt policing.
No good being sucessful on appeal or after the real criminal  has been brought to justice if the death penalty has aready been carried out.
I remain unconvinced about the whole thing.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:30 pm

Handy Andy wrote:For the  death penalty , I would expect an admission of guilt before senrencing.
There have been a number of hgh profile miscarriages of justice in the UK becausevof lackadaisical/incompetent  or corrupt policing.
No good being sucessfl on sppeal or after the real criminal  has been brought to justice if the death penalty has aready been carried out.
I remain unconvinced about the whole thing.

The problem with that is some people admit to crimes they haven't committed.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:33 pm

Handy Andy wrote:For the  death penalty , I would expect an admission of guilt before sentencing.
There have been a number of hgh profile miscarriages of justice in the UK because of lackadaisical/incompetent  or corrupt policing.
No good being sucessful on appeal or after the real criminal  has been brought to justice if the death penalty has aready been carried out.
I remain unconvinced about the whole thing.

Exactly, since no conviction can ever be 100% safe we should not employ a 100% irreversible sanction.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:37 pm

Syl wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:For the  death penalty , I would expect an admission of guilt before senrencing.
There have been a number of hgh profile miscarriages of justice in the UK becausevof lackadaisical/incompetent  or corrupt policing.
No good being sucessfl on sppeal or after the real criminal  has been brought to justice if the death penalty has aready been carried out.
I remain unconvinced about the whole thing.

The problem with that is some people admit to crimes they haven't committed.

Not only that, police tactics work amazingly well on people of weak will, and this unfortunately means the mentally ill. Cases are replete with false confessions, meaning the confession at issue may be just another point to be litigated.

It's certainly no guarantee.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:47 pm

Syl wrote:Obviously the families will always suffer and never forget, but it's made worse when the pictures of the people who tortured and killed their children are splashed over the papers at regular intervals, sometimes with sympathetic stories by well meaning do gooders as to why the murderer is so misunderstood.
Closure can never be achieved, it could be helped though imo.

It may mean revenge to you to sentence someone to death, it doesn't to me.

Closure and revenge are indistinguishable. I have never heard anyone state a valid distinction. Let's face it...you're happy because he's dead! That's closure...that's revenge. End of...

As far as the families who must see pictures in the papers, that could be dealt with much more easily with a ban on such publications. The press works really well, what with (for example) withholding names of rape victims.

Besides, is publication really the problem? Anyone could show them those pictures. Indeed, the memories could be stirred up by many occasions, not just publication.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Obviously the families will always suffer and never forget, but it's made worse when the pictures of the people who tortured and killed their children are splashed over the papers at regular intervals, sometimes with sympathetic stories by well meaning do gooders as to why the murderer is so misunderstood.
Closure can never be achieved, it could be helped though imo.

It may mean revenge to you to sentence someone to death, it doesn't to me.

Closure and revenge are indistinguishable.  I have never heard anyone state a valid distinction.  Let's face it...you're happy because he's dead!  That's closure...that's revenge.  End of...

As far as the families who must see pictures in the papers, that could be dealt with much more easily with a ban on such publications.  The press works really well, what with (for example) withholding names of rape victims.  

Besides, is publication really the problem?  Anyone could show them those pictures.  Indeed, the memories could be stirred up by many occasions, not just publication.


Closure is acceptance, it comes from within oneself not from outside sources.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with revenge.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Spindleshanks on Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Are you talking about revenge?  In what way are the victims' families relieved of their burdens if the convict is executed?

No, it's not revenge. Revenge is when people say the death penalty is too quick let them suffer. Oddly people who make that sort of comment see the death penalty as cruel.

I'm not sure if you know of the Moors murderers Hindley and Brady.
For decades their names have been continuously brought up in the press, each time compounding the grief the childrens families had to bare. Had they been hanged in the 60's none of that would have happened and their grief would have not been constantly refreshed,....it's still happening because Brady is still alive and still making news.

But had they been executed then Pauline Reade's body would never have been found because Hindley would never have been able to make her confession in 1987.

Sadly they never found Keith Bennett but at least Pauline's family were able to lay her to rest.
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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:54 pm

Scrat I don't have a "hit list".

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:01 pm

scrat wrote:
Major wrote:


Scat, take notice, this is the correct way to answer a thread, NOT attack the poster.

Crawling to the mods is poor form, especially when I'm on their hit list.

I was making an observation about the traits of the far right creatures in our midst, those that post endless graphic images of slaughter, and then post about public execution, that's what ISIS do, which assists my own personal theory that the madness of ISIS is shared by the far right, I'll try and be a bit more obtuse and tactful next time, if you think that might help?

Use these examples of Major not attacking the poster as your template, scrat. Laughing

Major wrote:Go away, Stalker.troll.
Major wrote:...stop nit picking and stalking, you worry me.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by magica on Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:29 pm

I don't like the death sentence to me its still murder, legalised but murder all the same.

I'm one of the let them rot in prison, that Syl mentioned. I think also deaths an easy way out, let them sit for years in prison thinking they will never come out only in a box. This particularly for child murderers.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:36 pm

Major wrote:
scrat wrote:
Sheep get worried easily!


I worry you may do a bit more reporting.
Why , have you something to hide?

Doom has been quiet today, nothing to do with the hypothetical investigation by the forumotion litigation team investigating his torrid site?

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:17 pm

The far rght hate everybody.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:22 pm

Always wondered why the far right have delusions of grandeur.
LORD foul..Lord Moletrousers.
MAJOR Stormbold.
Out of all the names they have available to chose, they always thinks themselves better and socially higher.
Just wonderin'.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:33 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Always wondered why the far right have delusions of grandeur.
LORD foul..Lord Moletrousers.
MAJOR Stormbold.
Out of all the names they have available to chose, they always thinks themselves better and socially higher.
Just wonderin'.

You surprise me HA...I didnt have you down as a literary ignoramus but hey I'm not altogether surprised.....
and if you cant see its to do with the character...rather than the title then you are truly ignorant

and YOU stand all need to talk...what are we to make of a dickless wonder who (albeit via innuendo) brags about the size of his "member" and about his bedroom exploits....

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:44 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Closure and revenge are indistinguishable.  I have never heard anyone state a valid distinction.  Let's face it...you're happy because he's dead!  That's closure...that's revenge.  End of...

As far as the families who must see pictures in the papers, that could be dealt with much more easily with a ban on such publications.  The press works really well, what with (for example) withholding names of rape victims.  

Besides, is publication really the problem?  Anyone could show them those pictures.  Indeed, the memories could be stirred up by many occasions, not just publication.


Closure is acceptance, it comes from within oneself not from outside sources.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with revenge.

Then apparently, it has nothing to do with capital punishment. Otherwise, you'd have to explain how an outside event causes a change within oneself.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:33 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Obviously the families will always suffer and never forget, but it's made worse when the pictures of the people who tortured and killed their children are splashed over the papers at regular intervals, sometimes with sympathetic stories by well meaning do gooders as to why the murderer is so misunderstood.
Closure can never be achieved, it could be helped though imo.

It may mean revenge to you to sentence someone to death, it doesn't to me.

Closure and revenge are indistinguishable.  I have never heard anyone state a valid distinction.  Let's face it...you're happy because he's dead!  That's closure...that's revenge.  End of...

As far as the families who must see pictures in the papers, that could be dealt with much more easily with a ban on such publications.  The press works really well, what with (for example) withholding names of rape victims.  

Besides, is publication really the problem?  Anyone could show them those pictures.  Indeed, the memories could be stirred up by many occasions, not just publication.

Smile

I AGREE wholeheartedly,  Quill...

Those who support state-sanctioned executions (the likes of Syl and Major, on this thread, and several of their cohorts on previous threads..) are basically spineless and limp-wristed cowards. Looking for a quick and easy revenge,  but unwilling to do the deed themselves..

IF I were to kill someone --  either in "self defence", or possibly in retribution (e.g. in situations as described in eddie's  comments above there..)  --  the onus and responsibility would be upon myself,  and not palmed of to a faceless legalised executioner.

Amd then, there is also that small matter that around 3-->5% of executed persons, are later found to be  either innocent, wrongly convicted, or undeserving of the actual punishment.

Much better, more civilised, and possibly more humane, that the most serious, extreme and vile criminals are locked away permanently..

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Miffs2 on Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:12 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:Always wondered why the far right have delusions of grandeur.
LORD foul..Lord Moletrousers.
MAJOR Stormbold.
Out of all the names they have available to chose, they always thinks themselves better and socially higher.
Just wonderin'.

You surprise me HA...I didnt have you down as a literary ignoramus but hey I'm not altogether surprised.....
and if you cant see its to do with the character...rather than the title then you are truly ignorant

and YOU stand all need to talk...what are we to make of a dickless wonder who (albeit via innuendo) brags about the size of his "member" and about his bedroom exploits....
.,


That his mates call him needledick the bug fucker .?!
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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:22 am

I see the flopette crew are ganging up on here before the litigation team finally close flop.
I hear they are being inundated with complaints.
I  believe another complaint will be made today.
Oh dear. What a shame. Never mind.
Oh, and Foul, I do know which character LF is , you would better off with Benny from Crossroads. Much more befitting your personality.

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:49 am

Handy Andy wrote:Always wondered why the far right have delusions of grandeur.
LORD foul..Lord Moletrousers.
MAJOR Stormbold.
Out of all the names they have available to chose, they always thinks themselves better and socially higher.
Just wonderin'.

Lord Edmund Moletrousers was the name of a comic character in a children's play that I wrote for the amateur stage in the 1980s.

Does your screen name indicate a penchant for onanism?
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Fred Moletrousers
MABEL, THE GREAT ZOG

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Re: A Legal Executioner.

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