Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

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Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by eddie on Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:45 pm

Gay and bisexual men convicted of now-abolished sexual offences in England and Wales are to receive posthumous pardons, the government has announced.

Thousands of living men convicted over consensual same-sex relationships will also be eligible for the pardon.

Lib Dem peer Lord Sharkey, who proposed the amendment to the Policing and Crimes Bill, said it was "momentous".

It follows the pardoning of World War Two code-breaker Alan Turing for gross indecency in 2013.

Under the amendment - dubbed "Turing law" - deceased people who were convicted of sexual acts that are no longer deemed criminal will receive an automatic pardon.
Anyone living who has been convicted of such offences could already apply through the Home Office to have the offence wiped from their criminal records.

But now, if the Home Office agrees that the offence is no longer an offence under current law, they will automatically be pardoned.

Justice Minister Sam Gyimah said it was "hugely important that we pardon people convicted of historical sexual offences who would be innocent of any crime today".

Lord Sharkey said he understood why some people may not want a pardon, or may "feel that it's wrong".

But, he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme, "a pardon is probably the best way of acknowledging the real harm done by the unjust and cruel homophobic laws, which thankfully we've now repealed. And I do hope that a lot of people will feel exactly the same way".

He said of the 65,000 men convicted under the laws, 15,000 are still alive

'I will not accept a pardon'

George Montague was convicted in 1974 of gross indecency with a man. He says he wants an apology - not a pardon.

"To accept a pardon means you accept that you were guilty. I was not guilty of anything. I was only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time," he told BBC Newsnight.

"I think it was wrong to give Alan Turing - one of the heroes of my life - a pardon.

"What was he guilty of? He was guilty of the same as what they called me guilty of - being born only able to fall in love with another man."

He added: "If I get an apology, I will not need a pardon."

He added that there "never should have been an offence of gross indecency".

"It didn't apply to heterosexuals. Heterosexuals could do what they liked, in the doorways, in passageways, the back of their car.

"It only applied to gay men. That's not right, surely?"


Video on link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37711518

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:05 pm

I'm surprised to learn that this was not done decades ago.

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by nicko on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:07 pm

I think I agree with that, a "pardon" a pardon means you could still be guilty but have been let off.
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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:09 pm

nicko wrote:I think I agree with that,   a "pardon" a pardon means you could still be guilty but have been let off.  

They were guilty of transgressing the law as it stood at the time - but an apology costs nothing so why not.

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:31 pm

I blame religion.
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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by eddie on Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:44 pm

It's great news and a long time coming and yes, a fucking big fat apology is due.

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:29 pm

I don't think that heterosexuals can have sex in public places with impunity, so I don't agree with some of that. I do agree that a pardon implies guilt though.

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:31 pm

the law changed
simpul

they are therfore no longer guilty and this should be recognised

further the law at that time was wrongful, therfore they should get an apology
just because a law exists does not mean that it is either just or right


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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Jules on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:38 pm

eddie wrote:Gay and bisexual men convicted of now-abolished sexual offences in England and Wales are to receive posthumous pardons, the government has announced.

Thousands of living men convicted over consensual same-sex relationships will also be eligible for the pardon.

Lib Dem peer Lord Sharkey, who proposed the amendment to the Policing and Crimes Bill, said it was "momentous".

It follows the pardoning of World War Two code-breaker Alan Turing for gross indecency in 2013.

Under the amendment - dubbed "Turing law" - deceased people who were convicted of sexual acts that are no longer deemed criminal will receive an automatic pardon.
Anyone living who has been convicted of such offences could already apply through the Home Office to have the offence wiped from their criminal records.

But now, if the Home Office agrees that the offence is no longer an offence under current law, they will automatically be pardoned.

Justice Minister Sam Gyimah said it was "hugely important that we pardon people convicted of historical sexual offences who would be innocent of any crime today".

Lord Sharkey said he understood why some people may not want a pardon, or may "feel that it's wrong".

But, he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme, "a pardon is probably the best way of acknowledging the real harm done by the unjust and cruel homophobic laws, which thankfully we've now repealed. And I do hope that a lot of people will feel exactly the same way".

He said of the 65,000 men convicted under the laws, 15,000 are still alive

'I will not accept a pardon'

George Montague was convicted in 1974 of gross indecency with a man. He says he wants an apology - not a pardon.

"To accept a pardon means you accept that you were guilty. I was not guilty of anything. I was only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time," he told BBC Newsnight.

"I think it was wrong to give Alan Turing - one of the heroes of my life - a pardon.

"What was he guilty of? He was guilty of the same as what they called me guilty of - being born only able to fall in love with another man."

He added: "If I get an apology, I will not need a pardon."

He added that there "never should have been an offence of gross indecency".

"It didn't apply to heterosexuals. Heterosexuals could do what they liked, in the doorways, in passageways, the back of their car.

"It only applied to gay men. That's not right, surely?"


Video on link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37711518
Just quash all the convictions. "Pardoning" them sounds so patronising.

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Jules on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:40 pm

It's like "well your convictions still stand, but we forgive/pardon you" No

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:52 am



The bill didn't get off the ground...


It was talked out...

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Eilzel on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:43 am

It is being brought up again in December. Unless he wants to waste everyone's time he'll just go with the flow.

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by magica on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:01 pm

I don't see why any man should be pardoned for something that was so natural to them. It smacks of you committed a crime.

Yes it was against the law, so were many things, thankfully that law doesnt exist anymore.


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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:18 pm



What is it that these people were actually doing and arrested/charged/convicted for?



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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:20 pm

They were convicted of offenses that are no longer illegal in the UK, as it states in the source.

Presumably, sex in public is still illegal.

So ... ?

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:22 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:They were convicted of offenses that are no longer illegal in the UK, as it states in the source.

Presumably, sex in public is still illegal.

So ... ?


What offences...?



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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by magica on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

What is it that these people were actually doing and arrested/charged/convicted for?



For being gay.
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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:28 pm



Think it might have involved a bit more than that magica...


What were they actually arrested and charged for doing...?



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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:55 pm

FOR BEING GAY...simple


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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:59 pm




Erm... not sure that was all there was to it elmer...



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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Think it might have involved a bit more than that magica...


What were they actually arrested and charged for doing...?



They were doing things that aren't illegal now, so why does it matter?

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Erm... not sure that was all there was to it elmer...



erm well....you would try to find anything to excuse your rampant homophobia....

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:40 pm

In the case of Alan Turing

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

In January 1952, Turing, then 39, started a relationship with Arnold Murray, a 19-year-old unemployed man. Turing had met Murray just before Christmas outside the Regal Cinema when walking down Manchester's Oxford Road and invited him to lunch. On 23 January Turing's house was burgled. Murray told Turing that the burglar was an acquaintance of his, and Turing reported the crime to the police. During the investigation he acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray. Homosexual acts were criminal offences in the United Kingdom at that time,[103] and both men were charged with gross indecency under Section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885.[104] Initial committal proceedings for the trial were held on 27 February during which Turing's solicitor "reserved his defence"

In other words...simply for being gay......

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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:51 am

There was more to it than that elmer...



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Re: Gay men convicted of now-abolished sex offences to be pardoned

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:55 am

thats what Turing was prosecuted for...

and many many others....



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