Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe

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Post by Guest on Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:24 am

First topic message reminder :

If the scientists are correct, then the Standard Model of physics could be due a major revision

It’s one of the most important parts of physics: there are four fundamental forces in the universe. And it might be completely wrong.
Scientists have said that they may have discovered a new force, not accounted for in the Standard Model, indicating that our view of physics might be entirely wrong.
If the scientists’ claim is correct, then it could have a huge impact on our understanding of the universe and our search for dark matter. It is reported in the journal Physical Review Letters by researchers from the University of California, Irvine.

“If true, it’s revolutionary,” said Jonathan Feng, professor of physics & astronomy at UCI, in a statement. “For decades, we’ve known of four fundamental forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces. If confirmed by further experiments, this discovery of a possible fifth force would completely change our understanding of the universe, with consequences for the unification of forces and dark matter.”
The data for the new claim comes from a mid-2015 study by experimental nuclear physicists in Hungary. That work was looking for “dark photons” – particles that would be a sign of dark matter, the substance that makes up about 85 per cent of the universe but which we’ve never actually seen.
The scientists, from the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, found a radioactive decay anomaly that seemed to suggest that there was a light particle 30 times heavier than an electron.

That remained something of a mystery to the original scientists.
“The experimentalists weren’t able to claim that it was a new force,” UCI professor of physics & astronomy Jonathan Feng said. “They simply saw an excess of events that indicated a new particle, but it was not clear to them whether it was a matter particle or a force-carrying particle.”
But the UCI scientists looked through the data and showed that the unexplained data didn’t seem to come from matter particles or dark photons. The explanation that seemed to bring together the data was that there is a fifth force, previously unnoticed by scientists.
At the moment, the Standard Model of physics includes only four fundamental forces: gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. They’ve thought to be complete and govern our understanding of the entire universe.

But they will have to do more work before they can say so for sure. The force hasn’t been detected before because it is so weak – and finding it again might be made difficult for the same reason.
“The particle is not very heavy, and laboratories have had the energies required to make it since the ’50s and ’60s,” Professor Feng said. “But the reason it’s been hard to find is that its interactions are very feeble. That said, because the new particle is so light, there are many experimental groups working in small labs around the world that can follow up the initial claims, now that they know where to look.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-might-have-discovered-a-fifth-force-of-nature-changing-our-whole-view-of-the-universe-a7194121.html


That's momentous.   Every time we think we know something, we find we don't after all.

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Post by eddie on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:47 am

Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 3922118137

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:19 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
eddie wrote:
Wolf I'm sorry but you've been proven wrong on many of the nutrition threads by me, Horatio and Syl and sassy, and you've done a runner.

..........
Arrow

1.  NONE of you four have ever proven me wrong on anything to do with science,  health or nutrition topics...

SHOW ME one example where you proved me wrong  !!!

2.  I HAVE NEVER "done a runner"...

I WASN'T EVEN in the discussion on the couple of occasions (certainly not "many"..) you four twits have accused me of running -- I had already "left the building" ,  and when I checked back a day or two later, found that you idiots were attacking me in my absence !

3.   YOU, HT and syl simply keep on proving your ignorance on these subjects --  none of you have a hope in hell, of ever proving me wrong on these matters..

4.  I HAVE forgotten more about science, health and nutrition over the years, than you, HT or syl will ever know between you !!!

5.  YOUR claims as to having proving me wrong are complete and utter lies..         Idea


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I love it when you get all self righteous.....
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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:19 am

eddie wrote:Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 3922118137

lol!
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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:29 am

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:

Says who?? Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 3755771736  Laughing
Surely a dimension is just a measurement, a variable if you like.
Secondly, time goes forwards, backwards and every which way, it's completely elastic.
You can create equations with a negative value for time.

No point in anyone pretending to understand it all, I certainly don't, but I've always found the membrane diagrams helpful when trying to grasp what the space-time continuum is all about.
Space and time both sit on a bouncing membrane and completely depend on each other.

With the first three dimensions, you can go forward/backward, up/down, left/right.  But with time, you can't go backwards.  

At least, I'd like to talk to the person who has gone backwards.  It would be really interesting.

BTW, if you are interested in brane (for membrane) theory, look at some of the works of Harvard physicist Lisa Randall.  She is one of the founders of brane theory.  Also, a pretty good popular writer.  Look for Knocking on Heaven's Door and Warped Passages.

But time is a human concept, isn't it? We are the ones moving. Time surely doesn't 'pass', but rather we pass through what we believe is time. So does time even exist?

"People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between the past, the present and the future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion" Albert Einstein
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Post by eddie on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:06 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 3922118137

lol!

Made me laugh too

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:32 pm

veya wrote:time does have two directions!
Past and Future.

But only in your mind.  You can't go (physically move) to the past, it exists only in memory.

veya wrote:Humans don't have time reverse and kangaroos movement reverse. AND NEITHER IS RELEVANT.

That's like what they used to say about before the Big Bang.  Don't ask, because it is not relevant!  Come to find out, there were lots of people looking into it, but they wouldn't talk about it because everyone told each other, It isn't relevant!

Then they found the 11th dimension, and suddenly they were all talking about it, and proposing things like brane theory, or M-theory (for membrane theory)...the holistic nature of the universe, and in fact, several universes, nestled side-by-side.

Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 Shutterstock_12310231

Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDixLUEXiduam95URTY3Jv1udVUiVy60vqfpAeSYaGIyagsU7p Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 4

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Post by Jules on Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:

Says who?? Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 3755771736  Laughing
Surely a dimension is just a measurement, a variable if you like.
Secondly, time goes forwards, backwards and every which way, it's completely elastic.
You can create equations with a negative value for time.

No point in anyone pretending to understand it all, I certainly don't, but I've always found the membrane diagrams helpful when trying to grasp what the space-time continuum is all about.
Space and time both sit on a bouncing membrane and completely depend on each other.

With the first three dimensions, you can go forward/backward, up/down, left/right.  But with time, you can't go backwards.  

At least, I'd like to talk to the person who has gone backwards.  It would be really interesting.

BTW, if you are interested in brane (for membrane) theory, look at some of the works of Harvard physicist Lisa Randall.  She is one of the founders of brane theory.  Also, a pretty good popular writer.  Look for Knocking on Heaven's Door and Warped Passages.


Sorry, he's too busy making mischief to talk to you right now.
Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 Trumpe10

So naughty of you to make me go off topic, OQ, it's all your fault! Laughing




Yeah I will take another look and see the latest thinking on the brane theory. Out of all the models out there, I have always found it to be the most elegant and the easiest to understand. Thanks, OQ. x Scientists might have discovered a fifth force of nature, changing our whole view of the universe - Page 2 4214183177

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Post by Jules on Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:46 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

With the first three dimensions, you can go forward/backward, up/down, left/right.  But with time, you can't go backwards.  

At least, I'd like to talk to the person who has gone backwards.  It would be really interesting.

BTW, if you are interested in brane (for membrane) theory, look at some of the works of Harvard physicist Lisa Randall.  She is one of the founders of brane theory.  Also, a pretty good popular writer.  Look for Knocking on Heaven's Door and Warped Passages.

But time is a human concept, isn't it?  We are the ones moving.   Time surely doesn't 'pass', but rather we pass through what we believe is time.  So does time even exist?  

"People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between the past, the present and the future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion"                                                                                                                                               Albert Einstein

Correct. We need to change the way we process the concepts of past/present/future .  The future has already happened!  The future is out there already, we just haven't reached it yet. Wink

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