Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

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Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:30 pm

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Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Introduction

Islam, like other major world religions (with the very recent exception of certain liberal denominations in the West), prohibits categorically all forms of same-sex erotic behavior.[1] Scholars have differed over questions of how particular same-sex acts should be technically categorized and/or punished, but have never differed over the fact of their prohibition. The full and unbroken Islamic consensus on this issue embraces all recorded legal schools, theological persuasions, and historically documented sectarian divisions.

The evidentiary basis underlying Islam's categorical prohibition of liwāṭ (sodomy) and other same-sex behaviors lies in explicit proscriptive statements of the Qurʾān and Ḥadīth, the transmitted consensus of the Prophet's Companions and Successors, and the documented unanimity of the Islamic legal tradition throughout the ages. Notwithstanding, the past decade and a half has witnessed the rise of Muslim reformist voices, primarily in the West, challenging Islam's proscription of homosexual activity and calling for the religious affirmation of same-gender sexual expression, relationships, and identities. This challenge has consisted not only in a questioning of the probative value of the relevant ḥadīth evidence and a disregard for juristic and wider community consensus, but also in the assertion that the Qurʾān itself does not prohibit same-sex relations per se, but only homosexual rape motivated by inhospitality with intent to dishonor. It has been further argued that the Qurʾān should not be taken to prohibit same-sex behaviors categorically since it does not specifically address the abstract modern concept of “homosexuality” as an orientation or, for that matter, the notion of “sexual identity” more broadly.

Continue: http://muslimmatters.org/2016/07/11/can-islam-accommodate-homosexual-acts-quranic-revisionism-and-the-case-of-scott-kugle/
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by SEXY MAMA on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:33 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Re READ my post again so it can sink in your thick head ffs

And here to prove my point on the insensitivities on some backward Muslims who do nothing to help progress Islam but keep in firmly stuck in the dark ages, where they think some words written 1400 years ago is enough to allow them to think two consenting adults in love is a sin.
They will not question sexual slavery or slavery itself endorse in the Quran, yet even within Islam, slavery has stopped in most Muslim countries and progressed, or were they wrong to do this also then you clueless idiot?

Lol you didn't read my post

So no point in 'debating' with you as you only like the sound of your own voice

Bye

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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:35 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

And here to prove my point on the insensitivities on some backward Muslims who do nothing to help progress Islam but keep in firmly stuck in the dark ages, where they think some words written 1400 years ago is enough to allow them to think two consenting adults in love is a sin.
They will not question sexual slavery or slavery itself endorse in the Quran, yet even within Islam, slavery has stopped in most Muslim countries and progressed, or were they wrong to do this also then you clueless idiot?

Lol you didn't read my post

So no point in 'debating' with you as you only like the sound of your own voice

Bye


Yes do run away when it get s too difficult for you to understand

islam once enndorsed slavery

It has now moved forward, proviong you are an immature child, failing to progress Islam into the 21st century and you and others are the cause of problems today for many Muslims as you simply will not allow yourself to tackle problems within your faith.
If you wish to keep ypur head perptually stuck in the sand and think you can judge people based on your faith.
Then youa re part of the problem of what is wrong with literal belief.
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by SEXY MAMA on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:38 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Lol you didn't read my post

So no point in 'debating' with you as you only like the sound of your own voice

Bye


Yes do run away when it get s too difficult for you to understand

islam once enndorsed slavery

It has now moved forward, proviong you are an immature child, failing to progress Islam into the 21st century and you and others are the cause of problems today for many Muslims as you simply will not allow yourself to tackle problems within your faith.
If you wish to keep ypur head perptually stuck in the sand and think you can judge people based on your faith.
Then youa re part of the problem of what is wrong with literal belief.

Ffs it's like arguing with a child!

Mohammed pbuh abolished slavery

He also abolished female babies being killed by parents!

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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:41 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:


Yes do run away when it get s too difficult for you to understand

islam once enndorsed slavery

It has now moved forward, proviong you are an immature child, failing to progress Islam into the 21st century and you and others are the cause of problems today for many Muslims as you simply will not allow yourself to tackle problems within your faith.
If you wish to keep ypur head perptually stuck in the sand and think you can judge people based on your faith.
Then youa re part of the problem of what is wrong with literal belief.

Ffs it's like arguing with a child!

Mohammed pbuh abolished slavery

He also abolished female babies being killed by parents!


No he did not abolsih slavery and even gave sex slaves to his warriors

or do you pick and chose what you believe in Islamic doctrine when it chooses you or forget that many Muslims believe that he did?

You see it is you the immature child controlled through your insecurities over death that lead you through fear to follow such a barabic deity.

The same I class for all the abrahamic faiths

This deity is not love but uses fear in order to gain love.

That is not love as its conditional.

You need to start loking at your faith with some honesty
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by SEXY MAMA on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:43 pm

Didge wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Ffs it's like arguing with a child!

Mohammed pbuh abolished slavery

He also abolished female babies being killed by parents!


No he did not abolsih slavery and even gave sex slaves to his warriors

or do you pick and chose what you believe in Islamic doctrine when it chooses you or forget that many Muslims believe that he did?

You see it is you the immature child controlled through your insecurities over death that lead you through fear to follow such a barabic deity.

The same I class for all the abrahamic faiths

This deity is not love but uses fear in order to gain love.

That is not love as its conditional.

You need to start loking at your faith with some honesty

What evidence do you have to support the rubbish you have posted?

Stop acting like Smelly and reading anti Islam sites.

Seriously you have made Smelly proud

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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:44 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:


No he did not abolsih slavery and even gave sex slaves to his warriors

or do you pick and chose what you believe in Islamic doctrine when it chooses you or forget that many Muslims believe that he did?

You see it is you the immature child controlled through your insecurities over death that lead you through fear to follow such a barabic deity.

The same I class for all the abrahamic faiths

This deity is not love but uses fear in order to gain love.

That is not love as its conditional.

You need to start loking at your faith with some honesty

What evidence do you have to support the rubbish you have posted?

Stop acting like Smelly and reading anti Islam sites.

Seriously you have made Smelly proud



Defkections from an immature brat  again

Plenty of evidence

Are you claiming there is no hadiths claiming this?

Or do you want to run away you petulant little brat

Its idiots like you that see a rise in hate in Muslims withg your stupidity, when none of them should suffer because of your lies
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by SEXY MAMA on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:49 pm

So no evidence

Shut the fuck up now

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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by sassy on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:52 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:So no evidence

Shut the fuck up now


Evening SM.   Just ignore the stupid arse, he really isn't worth the oxygen.

 
Cue rant at me lol

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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:54 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:So no evidence

Shut the fuck up now


What doctrines do you think ISIS use to endorse sex slaves then dummy?

I will give you a moment to reflect before I embarres you?
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:56 pm

FROM THE QURAN - 70:22-30
 
"Not so the worshippers, who are steadfast in prayer, who set aside a due portion of their wealth for the beggar and for the deprived, who truly believe in the Day of Reckoning and dread the punishment of their Lord (for none is secure from the punishment of their Lord);  who restrain their carnal desire (save with their wives and their slave girls, for these are lawful to them:  he that lusts after other than these is a transgressor..."
 


FROM THE QURAN - 23:5,6
"...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them..."



FROM THE QURAN - 4:24
"And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. (Muhammad Pickthall's English translation of the Quran).
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:11 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
4EVER2 wrote:
I've often wondered if as with the native American's that the people (linguistics) trying to give a written history to a tribe or sect would just skip over such topics or definitions/religious laws that the customs/locals knew and spoke of but those scholars just deemed too unseemly to put pen to paper? 
The reason that I'm suggesting this, was a very recent NPR study telelvised ...and this group of linguistics are trying to undo 100 years of native tribal languages being forbidden to be spoken by my fathers generation and punished & banished from my grand fathers generation!  
So many native languages gone without the written history and the elders that are still able to speak their unique dialect are struggling to remember specific words - like was there a word for GAY/LESBIAN in their native tongue ...and most often the different tribal groups have stated 'NO, they were just a mixed spirit, nothing to be treated differently - never banned from our tribe but not given a separate word - they just WERE!'

So I've wondered if this wasn't possible for the ancient (BC era) just because it wasn't given a specific line item in some ancient documents - didn't mean that there were'nt any GAY or LESBIANISM humans back then ...perhaps they just didn't give it a written notation     
And what if they were more accepting then the scribes that used their own prejudices to write the Quran ...Mohammad certainly had quite a few heartfelt changes of his POV as he aged ...it's very plausible. IMO

Homosexuality is considered a sin and I don't think this point of view will change.
Maybe I'm not able to express my point as preciesly as I wish I could; what I'm trying to get out is that we all know that there are segments that were left out of the final draft of the BIBLE - could that not be possible for all of the other forms of the oldest religions known to mankind?

That with the vast distances between Islamic - Buddhist - Asian nations vs the African groups then up to the North America's ...so many forms of dialects and some many with no written linguistic history ...the best methods for spreading information was the 'story tellers'.  Things didn't always get translated verbatim - surely didn't get written down as line itemized worded text - couldn't it be possible that much like the BIBLE the sections about 'Sexual Morality' wasn't included until much later as an 'edited in section {like an after thought}?  Good Grief ...did that make any sense?  UGH

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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:34 am

4EVER2 wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Smile
I was wondering if Zack was so wound up from arguing with Didge, that he didn't actually look at what it was that I had posted.
Ya, well now that Didgy-dooer has crowed & boasted about his desire to GOAD and torment members into their reactions --- it's highly likely that it could have happened.  No

No, I just don't like being told what to do.

If thought what I said was rude, get over it: Stop being so precious, princess.
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:35 am

Like SM implied, the Quran is very specific about homosexual practices being sinful.

That is simply non negotiable under any translation or interpretation.
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Re: Can Islam Accommodate Homosexual Acts? Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle

Post by Guest on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:04 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Like SM implied, the Quran is very specific about homosexual practices being sinful.

That is simply non negotiable under any translation or interpretation.
And all of the other 'SINS' ? 
If any holy man was able to dictate morality and it be followed by the letter of that 'translation' then there would be no need for any future Mosques/Cathedrals/tent revivals/mega churches/little brown church in the vale  A one time lecture would have been all it took to get humanity on the straight and narrow line of living a righteous life and doing it according to the 'BOOK'.

But as with human nature and that 'free will thought process'; we just don't do as we're told and those sexual urges that aren't geared to run according to what a Holy Man dictates, seems to have been running amok since Adam & Eve!

BTW ...don't know if that 'PRINCESS' comment was directed to me, but I'll take being called that any day and if you meant it for SM, well at least my avatar/nickname was in the same quotation box! 

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