Chilcot Report6 July 2016

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Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:04 am

First topic message reminder :

There is no doubt that this will be the lead story on all the news bulletins here in the UK.

The big question is will Tony hang or will it be a whitewash like they usually are?
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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:43 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It isn't our problem, and it never was.  It is only by the convoluted reasons that got us involved, that we are left with the inheritance.

   We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men or women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must – at that moment – become the center of the universe.

   –Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech, 1986

In 1986, yes.  But I think Elie Wiesel would have different thoughts if he were speaking in a post-Iraq era.  Remember, there were no sides until we invaded Iraq.  

Perhaps he would pick the side of staying out of it, and not inventing reasons for killing babies.

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:45 am

didge wrote:You mean by the islamists?

No that's what our soldiers did.

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:48 am

didge wrote:Well considering you can provide none and he only died recently, would showed your view is false

I don't think so. He would have said: Don't cause trouble where there is no reason. Least of all, don't replace it with worse conditions.

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:52 am

didge wrote:But ignore the mass crimes by the islamists as being of a lesser evil than those convicted of isolated torture and rape cases?

He said-she said-they said-we said...  If what Saddam did was worse, why did we have to lie to invent a justification for war?

Just by the order of magnitude, the baby-killing, rape, kidnapping, torture of our own forces was worse.

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Syl on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:52 am

Is Blair a broken man living with the guilt?
or just a good actor??

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:03 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't think so.  He would have said: Don't cause trouble where there is no reason.  Least of all, don't replace it with worse conditions.

But he never did though did he, so your claims is just a load of waffle

Now you're impeaching your own witness.  You are saying that what Elie Wiesel felt is irrelevant.

didge wrote:Again it was not replaced by worse conditions, they came not from the US but islamists trying to gain Islamic supremacy from two islamic sides, who are still to this day doing the same.

Caused by our own intervention.  You are blaming the victim.  We caused the whole insurgency.

didge wrote:Its incredible how you constantly ignore the root cause.

Root cause?  Root cause?  It's seems to me that we created ISIS.  Take a look at, America Created Al-Qaeda and the ISIS Terror Group, By Garikai Chengu, Global Research, September 19, 2014

didge wrote:What has the inaction of the Allies cost in Syria leaving a tyrant in charge
500,000 dead
1.9 million injured
9 million displaced

That is the cost of your negligence to do nothing

We need more than your judgments and arm-chair opinions, didge.  Our restraint has probably saved thousands of babies lives.  After all, we wouldn't be going in there with Chicklets and warm puppies.

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

didge wrote:No we need action, as we have seen inaction and that it costs hundreds of thousands of lives in Syria and has by the influxe of refugees also seen a rise in the Far Right in Europe, mainly because of hearing the same nonsense and lies you just posted

You've made that point before; you are beginning to repeat yourself, didge.

I'll repeat the answer, before dropping out: If we went into Syria we would go in with more knives, grenades, F-18's and tanks. With what purpose? To kill, of course.

Every time we take out a couple of ISIS leaders in an airstrike, it is at the cost of 152-civilian lives. Those are babies, didge. It's not for nothing I use the term baby-killers.

What you want is revenge, not humanitarianism. You don't go in there with warm puppies, you go in with destructive weapons. Revenge is always costly. You're not solving any problems; you are adding to them.

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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Irn Bru on Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:46 am

Didge wrote:
sassy wrote:Germany and Japan after liberation did not descend into an insurgency



And that, without you even realising, shows the utter depths of your ignorance.



Bullshit aleart, show me the evidence that they descended into a decade long conflict of constant terrorism?

Seriously lets see the evidence and how and why they actually went onto rebuild their economies and no the Cold war is not terrorism, or an insurgency

In your own time dummy?

Here's your evidence


Didge wrote: The fact is it has been western policy that has driven the increase in the rise of Muslims driven to extremism, where again to a Muslim a drone attack that kills civilians would also be seen as terrorism, as I am sure if you had drone attacks here to oust terrorists, that killed civilians you would be saying the same thing and as seen many people do not have a problem with civilians being killed to get terrorists. It has been concluded that the whole Iraq war has driven extremism in this country but you are not even concerned over that, you wish to promote an absurd view over Islam, when in every Terrorist action the causes behind them have been over events, like troops in Ira for example, deaths to civilians etc showing you have not the first clue understanding what creates terrorism in the first place, you only see through your eyes of hatred.

Will that do?
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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by Irn Bru on Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:47 am

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:
sassy wrote:Germany and Japan after liberation did not descend into an insurgency



And that, without you even realising, shows the utter depths of your ignorance.



Bullshit aleart, show me the evidence that they descended into a decade long conflict of constant terrorism?

Seriously lets see the evidence and how and why they actually went onto rebuild their economies and no the Cold war is not terrorism, or an insurgency

In your own time dummy?

Here's your evidence on terrorism as it is now.


Didge wrote: The fact is it has been western policy that has driven the increase in the rise of Muslims driven to extremism, where again to a Muslim a drone attack that kills civilians would also be seen as terrorism, as I am sure if you had drone attacks here to oust terrorists, that killed civilians you would be saying the same thing and as seen many people do not have a problem with civilians being killed to get terrorists. It has been concluded that the whole Iraq war has driven extremism in this country but you are not even concerned over that, you wish to promote an absurd view over Islam, when in every Terrorist action the causes behind them have been over events, like troops in Ira for example, deaths to civilians etc showing you have not the first clue understanding what creates terrorism in the first place, you only see through your eyes of hatred.

Will that do?
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Re: Chilcot Report6 July 2016

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:15 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't think so.  He would have said: Don't cause trouble where there is no reason.  Least of all, don't replace it with worse conditions.

But he never did though did he, so your claims is just a load of waffle

Again it was not replaced by worse conditions, they came not from the US but islamists trying to gain Islamic supremacy from two islamic sides, who are still to this day doing the same.
Its incredible how you constantly ignore the root cause.
What has the inaction of the Allies cost in Syria leaving a tyrant in charge
500,000 dead
1.9 million injured
9 million displaced

That is the cost of your negligence to do nothing

Suspect

THE ASSAD totalitarian military dictatorship -- not a genuinely legitimate democratically-elected gov't -- should have been removed years ago, before ISIS had been allowed to get a foothold...

AS FOR Russia's involvement, would they even be there if Assad wasn't a big customer of theirs ?

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