Next PM?

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Next PM?

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

So Cameron has stepped down. Who's next?

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:05 am

Latest betting odds on the scramble for Dave’s job.

Theresa May – 8/11

Tartan Theresa is as clean as a whistle and has played her hand well. She’s off to a flyer and well ahead of the field so she’ll take a bit of catching.
------------------------------------------------------
Scot Michael Gove - 9/4

Short odds for him and not worth it. He put a bomb under Boris’s bid who ended up scratching but unfortunately Gove was too close to the explosion and he blew himself up as well
-----------------------------------------------------
Scot Stephen Crabb – 22/1

Working class lad but he’s a church going man opposed to any rights for the LGBT community which may look good on his CV for the regressive members in the Tory party who hold a majority on that score but I doubt he will make the final.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/06/29/tory-leadership-candidate-stephen-crabb-insists-anti-lgbt-voting-record-not-an-issue/  

Scot Liam Fox - 40/1

He’s tainted with his past by having to resign a ministerial position for carting his pal around the world and giving him access to the MoD buildings so he’ll probably fall at the first fence and drop out. Never a serious contender.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrea Leadsom – 11/2

She’s the biggest danger to Tartan Theresa and will probably make the final for the shoot out with the Tory membership who will make the final decision. But she has questions to answer regarding her financial affairs and alleged ‘dodgy dealings’ and party contributions but for the Tories having that on her CV is  not an issue and could in fact benefit her. Well worth a flutter I would say and that’s where the smart money may go.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/andrea-leadsom-financial-affairs-scrutiny-conservative-party-leadership-race

So it’s down to Tartan Theresa, three Scots and Andrea the former Banker. Place your bets....
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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:36 am

I thought Andrea Leadsom conducted herself brilliantly since she was catapulted into the spotlight after her contributions to the 'Leave' argument.
I had never heard of her before (don't think many had) But....like Irn said she seems to have had a dodgy past re her own financial dealings.

Is she just another one who seems to be in it for herself rather than the country.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:21 pm

Syl wrote:I thought Andrea Leadsom conducted herself brilliantly since she was catapulted into the spotlight after her contributions to the 'Leave' argument.
I had never heard of her before (don't think many had) But....like Irn said she seems to have had a dodgy past re her own financial dealings.

Is she just another one who seems to be in it for herself rather than the country.

She did. She was calm and didn't sink to personal insults like that dreadful Sturgeon woman.
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Re: Next PM?

Post by nicko on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:51 pm

andrea for PM.
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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:58 pm

Syl wrote:I thought Andrea Leadsom conducted herself brilliantly since she was catapulted into the spotlight after her contributions to the 'Leave' argument.
I had never heard of her before (don't think many had) But....like Irn said she seems to have had a dodgy past re her own financial dealings.

Is she just another one who seems to be in it for herself rather than the country.


Wouldn't trust an ex banker with anything, especially as when asked about her tax details on the Marr show, she nearly had a heart attack.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by nicko on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:03 pm

That prat Junker was an ex banker.
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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:15 pm

sassy wrote:
Syl wrote:I thought Andrea Leadsom conducted herself brilliantly since she was catapulted into the spotlight after her contributions to the 'Leave' argument.
I had never heard of her before (don't think many had) But....like Irn said she seems to have had a dodgy past re her own financial dealings.

Is she just another one who seems to be in it for herself rather than the country.


Wouldn't trust an ex banker with anything, especially as when asked about her tax details on the Marr show, she nearly had a heart attack.

She did a brilliant interview till that last question though Sassy.
She did eventually agree that she would allow her tax details to be published.....I think somehow this wont be dropped....for any of the potential candidates to be the next PM.


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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:20 pm

She has now said she won't publish them.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:26 pm

Has she? I thought her and Theresa May were still 'thinking it over'.

The latest I can find is that she will publish if she remains one of the final two.

Just found this also.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/76879/andrea-leadsom-theresa-may-and-michael-Gove

The three frontrunners to succeed David Cameron have said they are willing to publish their tax returns.


Last edited by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:35 pm

Ex-banker Andrea Leadsom 'won't be bullied' into making her tax return public after Stephen Crabb becomes second Tory contender to do so

  • Andrea Leadsom was under more pressure to reveal her tax records
  • Pressure grew when Tory contender Stephen Crabb revealed his tax return
  • Mr Crabb earned more than £100,000 in the 12 months to April 2015
  • Home Secretary Theresa May is expected to release hers imminently  


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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:46 pm

Yey...I managed to C&P a segment from my link. Laughing

Seems she has done a bit of tax avoidance in the past...I mentioned her dodgy past finances before somewhere here.
She does (so far) stand by her statement that IF she makes the final two she will reveal her tax records.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:05 pm

Looks like Theresa May is going to be Britains second woman PM.
God willing she has more in connection with the common people than the first one.


Mrs May who began the race as a front runner, got 165 votes. Minister Andrea Leadsom came second with 66.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:47 pm

She looks pretty good.  I wish you guys could shed the Conservatives--they'll only disappoint--but barring that...she's got the experience.  

I like that she was Minister of Women & Equities from 2010 to 2012.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:55 pm

Syl wrote:Looks like Theresa May is going to be Britains second woman PM.
God willing she has more in connection with the common people than the first one.


Mrs May who began the race as a front runner, got 165 votes. Minister Andrea Leadsom came second with 66.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196



Mrs Thatcher, grocers daughter, grew up in Grantham in flat above parents grocers shop...


Margaret Hilda Thatcher was born on 13 October 1925 in the Lincolnshire market town of Grantham. Her father, Alfred Roberts, was a shopkeeper who subsequently became mayor of the town. He and his wife Beatrice were devout Methodists and had met through the church: together they became an embodiment of lower-middle class respectability, saving to buy the shop that was their livelihood and working long hours with few holidays to make a living.

When Prime Minister, Mrs Thatcher would often refer to her father’s example of thrift and financial responsibility - something not always accurately described as ‘Victorian values’ - as an inspiration for her own views. Certainly, she was made very much in the mould of her father, with a complete devotion to her family and the values of the family, a straightforward patriotism and a simple Christian faith.

A clever girl, she acquired at an early age a love for poetry, and especially that of Kipling, whom she would often quote in later life. She won a scholarship to the Kesteven and Grantham Girls’ School, and there became a gifted scientist and joint head girl. In October 1943 she won a place at Somerville College, Oxford, where she studied chemistry.

With a second-class degree in chemistry she left Oxford in 1947 to take up a post in research and development at a plastics factory in Essex. She found the work unrewarding, but threw herself into politics in her spare time as a consolation. Through the contacts she had made in the party she found herself invited, in the early part of 1949, to fight the Labour seat of Dartford, despite being then only 23.

She failed to win the seat at the 1950 election, but met a local businessman, Denis Thatcher, through the party. They married in December 1951, after the election of that autumn in which the Tories had won power, but Miss Roberts had failed again to win Dartford, though reducing Labour’s majority. Settling in London she worked for a time as a food scientist, but had also begun to study for the Bar in the evenings, feeling that the law would be a more exciting profession.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305755/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-From-grocers-daughter-Iron-Lady.html

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:57 pm

I know Thatchers origins Tommy.
Pity she seemed to forget them.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:26 pm

I don't think she forgot her origins... I think it was because of her origins and her real experience of the way things were in the country, growing up through the 30s-40s, and then living and working through the post war 50s-60s etc, that drove her to want to try to change things for the better.



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Re: Next PM?

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:52 pm

Thatcher HATED certain sections of society. Miners, rail workers,teachers,fire fighters, fishermen,doctors, nurses,civil servants . The railways. Steel. Heavy industry.
She only wanted the financial sector to suceeed. It is no coincidence that many of her and Denis's circle of friends and colleagues benefitted from her policies whilst vaste swathes of the country suffered.
We will never know why she did it. It certainly didn't improve the lot of the majority.
It cannot be denied she made a lot of enemies during her reign,and she is still reviled in many sections of society and in many cities in the UK.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by eddie on Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:58 pm

What about being able to buy your council house?
People are very divided on that one.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:02 pm

Is the reason there is still a crisis in the housing market. The best were snapped up, leaving the crap.
The poor cannot afford to buy, landlords were left with the worst of the housing, which meant the poor rented, and still do rent slums from greedy landlords and will never afford a new house.


Last edited by Handy Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Next PM?

Post by eddie on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:05 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Is the reason there is still a crisis in the housing market. The poor cannot afford to buy, landlords were left with the worst of the housing, which meant the poor rented, and still do rent slums from greedy landlords and will never afford a new house.

But on the other hand she enabled working class people to get on the property ladder.
Isn't that a good thing for the working classes?

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:08 pm

Only those working class blessed with having reliable ,regular income.
Didn't Thatcher oversee unemployment  reach 3.2 million during her tenure. She closed more factories than Hitler. Those affected worst were working class. Tens of thousands defaulted on mortgages and had to return to renting.

Unemployment soared in the early 1980s as a result of another recession, the official level exceeding 3 million and the official rate reaching 11.9% in 1984.[17] Most of these jobs had been lost in the heavy industry sector,[18] which was in decline, with the Conservative government's monetarist policies to tackle inflation also being blamed for the economic downturn and subsequent mass unemployment. Unemployment remained high until an economic boom during the second half of the 1980s. The official level fell below 3 million in mid 1987, dropped below 2 million in early 1989 and was down to 1.6 million by the end of that year, with the official rate of unemployment stood at 7.0% at the end of 1989.[17]

However, increases in the inflation rate towards the end of the 1980s led to increased interest rates[19] and another recession. Unemployment began to increase and by the end of 1992 the official level had again risen to almost 3 million with the official rate around 10.6%, although inflation was brought under control between 1990 and 1992. The economic situation of the UK improved after 1992, however, and the official unemployment level fell below 2 million by 1997 with the rate standing at around 6.8%, with inflation also remaining low.[17]

Source - Wikipedia.


Last edited by Handy Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Next PM?

Post by eddie on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:14 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Only those working class blessed with having reliable ,regular income.
Didn't Thatcher oversee unemployment  reach 3.2 million during her tenure. She closed more factories than Hitler. Those affected worst were working class. Tens of thousands defaulted on mortgages and had to return to renting.

All true. I was just making the point that opinion, about the buying of council houses, is a divided one.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:19 pm

It was one thing to be able to afford to buy your council house in Britain.As we all witnessed first hand ( my own mortgage interest rate was around 16%!!!), keeping a job and keeping up with the mortgage was another matter.


Last edited by Handy Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:21 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Thatcher HATED... ...miners, rail workers,teachers,fire fighters, fishermen,doctors, nurses,civil servants . The railways. Steel. Heavy industry.
She only wanted the financial sector to suceeed. It is no coincidence  that many of her and Denis's circle of friends and colleagues benefitted from her policies whilst vaste swathes of the country suffered.
We will never know why she did it. It certainly didn't improve the lot of the majority.
It cannot be denied she made a lot of enemies during her reign,and she is still reviled in many sections of society and in many cities in the UK.


Complete rubbish!!!



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Re: Next PM?

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:23 pm

Usual nonsense from Thatchers spawn. If you cannot contribute to the debate with more than your usual 2 words, don't bother. My budgie speaks more sense than you and has a wider vocabulary.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:27 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Is the reason there is still a crisis in the housing market. The best were snapped up, leaving the crap.
The poor cannot afford to buy, landlords were left with the worst of the housing, which meant the poor rented, and still do rent slums from greedy landlords and will never afford a new house.


Mass immigration under Labour from 1997 and the continuation of it from the free movement from all the huge number of poor countries that labour also signed us into is the cause of housing problems...



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Re: Next PM?

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:34 pm

We were talking about Thatcher, her impact on the housing market and her legacy .
In fact it was you who brought her into the conversation. 1997 onwards and immigration has no bearing on the buying up of council houses in the mid to late 1980's.
One would think you are trying to deflect from a lost cause.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:50 pm

There weren't any housing problems before 1997 when labour started mass immigration...


And although labour carried on with the right to buy policy... they not only opened the borders to mass immigration... but didn't build any council homes either!!!


One year under Thatcher built more council homes than the whole 13 years of labour govt!!!


The problems are direct result of mass immigration!!!

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:There weren't any housing problems before 1997 when labour started mass immigration...

And although labour carried on with the right to buy policy... they not only opened the borders to mass immigration... but didn't build any council homes either!!!

One year under Thatcher built more council homes than the whole 13 years of labour govt!!!

The problems are direct result of mass immigration!!!

Tommy, the Housing Act of 1980 was...well, in 1980.  Think it through. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_1980

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:09 pm

What's your point...?

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:What's your point...?

It is that your substantiation does not back up your claim.

Like all RW'rs, you can't mentally process.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:16 am

We'll know the result this Thursday when the two names going forward to the Tory membership will certainly be Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom. Michael Gove has no chance.

Liam Fox has pledged support to Theresa May but that's just him recognising that she's a virtual certainty and in doing so he's positioning himself for a return to a major cabinet position in her government. Same goes for Stephen Crabb.

I quite like Theresa May ( as far as it is possible to like a tory that is) and can see that she is a hard working MP who has some decent standards and the ability to see things through. I hope she wins.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:54 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:I thought Andrea Leadsom conducted herself brilliantly since she was catapulted into the spotlight after her contributions to the 'Leave' argument.
I had never heard of her before (don't think many had) But....like Irn said she seems to have had a dodgy past re her own financial dealings.

Is she just another one who seems to be in it for herself rather than the country.

She did. She was calm and didn't sink to personal insults like that dreadful Sturgeon woman.

HT, I'm quite surprised to see you say that because I believe that Nicola Sturgeon is quite diplomatic in her speeches. Can you cite me some examples where she has resorted to personal insults against people?

It's not as if she said UKIP is full of loonies, fruitcakes and closet racists is it aka David Cameron.
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Re: Next PM?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:01 am

Suspect

HORATIO back up any of her more puerile and idiotic claims with some actual evidence to support her bigotry   ???

THAT  will be a first, for this forum..        Laughing

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:50 am

My points are backed up by history...

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:My points are backed up by history...

Your points are backed up only by your imagination. You have never backed up your claim that the EU is reaching to take over taxation in member countries. All you posted is a confused report about some seminars on taxes. Hell, we got that in business classes in school.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:50 pm

Handy Andy wrote:It was one thing to be able to afford to buy your council house in Britain.As we all witnessed first hand ( my own mortgage  interest rate was around 16%!!!), keeping a job and keeping up with the mortgage was another matter.

We bought privately in 1981 and I recall the mortgage rate got higher and higher and probably peaked around 16%.
Thatcher encouraged people to buy their own council houses around this time....unfortunately the ones that were bought were not replaced, which forced a lot of people to rent privately which lined the pockets of private owners....Thatcher encouraged greed though, so that was OK.

Also people who had previously rented council then bought, couldn't keep up payments and ended up in negative equity.....so though it helped some, it certainly didn't help many.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by eddie on Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:52 pm

Yeah good points there Syl. My parents really disliked her. I remember my father saying she would ruin the country.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Syl on Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:02 pm

eddie wrote:Yeah good points there Syl. My parents really disliked her. I remember my father saying she would ruin the country.

Thanks Eddie...and she certainly did ruin parts of the country. Mining communities were at war with each other, and some areas never recovered.
I just associate Thatcher with the attitude that still prevails today, "I'm all right Jack and sod everyone else".

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:My points are backed up by history...

Your points are backed up only by your imagination.  You have never backed up your claim that the EU is reaching to take over taxation in member countries.  All you posted is a confused report about some seminars on taxes.  Hell, we got that in business classes in school.


http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/legislation/proposals/taxation/index_en.htm


I always speak the truth and I can always back up what I say!!!

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:58 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Your points are backed up only by your imagination.  You have never backed up your claim that the EU is reaching to take over taxation in member countries.  All you posted is a confused report about some seminars on taxes.  Hell, we got that in business classes in school.


http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/legislation/proposals/taxation/index_en.htm


I always speak the truth and I can always back up what I say!!!

Sorry tommy. None of it says what you claim. If you still don't accept that you are wrong, why don't you highlight the specific passage(s) and post them here, and include your argument.

If you can't do that, then you know you are wrong. If you can, then make your case. As I said before, I believe you are making a 'slippery slope' argument, which is weak and inconclusive.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:59 am



You should have gone to Specsavers...



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Re: Next PM?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:36 am

eddie wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:
Is the reason there is still a crisis in the housing market. The poor cannot afford to buy, landlords were left with the worst of the housing, which meant the poor rented, and still do rent slums from greedy landlords and will never afford a new house.

But on the other hand she enabled working class people to get on the property ladder.
Isn't that a good thing for the working classes?

Idea

THE MAIN PROBLEM with that policy is that it is only 'half baked'...

AS WITH the accelerated sell-offs of public housing over here, begun around the same time (implemented by Neville Wran's Labor state guvm'nt !), they also started reducing the building of replacement housing stock..

THEREBY, shifting the comparative advantages to private landlords, while at the same time life for the poorer half of the renting public has become increasingly harder, in line with the diminishing supply of new public housing.

Life would have been a lot easier for large sections of the community, if only they had increased the supply of public housing that litle bit more each year...

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Re: Next PM?

Post by nicko on Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:31 am

The idea of selling council houses,[ put forward by the Tory gov] was that the money raised would be put towards building new Council Houses,
unfortunately Labour Councils sat on this money and used it to fund some of their pet socialist ideas! A few Tory councils followed their lead.


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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:51 am

nicko wrote:The idea of selling council houses,[ put forward by the Tory gov] was that the money raised would be put towards building new Council Houses,
unfortunately Labour Councils sat on this money and used it to fund some of their pet socialist ideas!      A few Tory councils followed their lead.




I'm afraid Nicko, you might have said that in ignorance, but it is an outright lie.  Councils were not allowed to use the money from selling council houses to build council housing.  Under the rules, councils were prevented from reinvesting most of the proceeds of council house sales in new homes. After 1990, most local authorities were only allowed to spend 25% of such receipts on building houses.  It took control away from the council's housing departments.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:54 am

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:Yeah good points there Syl. My parents really disliked her. I remember my father saying she would ruin the country.

Thanks Eddie...and she certainly did ruin parts of the country. Mining communities were at war with each other, and some areas never recovered.
I just associate Thatcher with the attitude that still prevails today, "I'm all right Jack and sod everyone else".


Absolutely agree.

Thought you might like to know some things I have found out about Andrea Leadsom.

She wants maternity pay stopped

She wants to get rid of the minimum wage

She supports fox hunting

Many in the Tory Party say she would make Thatcher look like a wet.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Lord Foul on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:05 am

Well I know who WONT be the next PM...or the one after that...or the one after that.........or....


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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:20 am

No, you just think you do.

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Re: Next PM?

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:42 am

nicko wrote:The idea of selling council houses,[ put forward by the Tory gov] was that the money raised would be put towards building new Council Houses,
unfortunately Labour Councils sat on this money and used it to fund some of their pet socialist ideas!      A few Tory councils followed their lead.




Quite right nicko...


Thatcher built more in 1 year than labour did in the whole 13 years total in govt... while also opening up borders to mass immigration...


Obvious where the cause of problems is...

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Re: Next PM?

Post by sassy on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:49 am

Says Tommy, avoiding all the actual facts again and wallowing in his lies and self deceipt..

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