Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

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Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:41 am

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Leading Scottish politicians are calling for another referendum on independence from the UK after Britain voted to exit the EU. The Scottish public backed staying in the bloc and former SNP leader Alex Salmond says Scotland should “never leave the EU.”


Salmond made the comments during an interview with Sky News: “The sensible thing for Scotland to do would never be to leave the European Union,” he said.

His comments were backed by the current leader of the SNP, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also backing a second independence vote, after 62 percent of the population voted to remain in Europe. This was against the tide of the rest of the UK where 52 percent voted to leave the bloc.

"Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," Sturgeon said on Friday before the final result was known, as cited by Reuters.

"Scotland has contributed significantly to the Remain vote across the UK. That reflects the positive campaign the SNP fought, which highlighted the gains and benefits of our EU membership, and people across Scotland have responded to that positive message,” she added. 
Sturgeon has remained consistent about her threat to call a second referendum. Speaking in April, she said: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people.” 


In May, Salmond said Scotland would not be pulled out of the EU “against its will.”  



https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-brexit-uk-independence/








Think the song should be 'all by ourselves'

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:17 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Bye bye Obama...


Bye bye Cameron...


Bye bye eu...


Bye bye, "Great" Britain ...


Hello again Great Britain, hello again freedom and democracy!!!

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:21 pm

LOL

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:29 pm

I know great Britain, freedom and democracy are a joke to you... but it is obviously important for most people!

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:18 pm

You both mean the UK, not Great Britain. NI hasn't voted to leave yet. Laughing

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:You both mean the UK, not Great Britain. NI hasn't voted to leave yet. Laughing

I meant Great Britain, which only includes England, Scotland and Wales Razz

Northern Ireland is part of the UK but not part of Great Britain Razz

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:56 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:You both mean the UK, not Great Britain. NI hasn't voted to leave yet. Laughing

I meant Great Britain, which only includes England, Scotland and Wales Razz

Northern Ireland is part of the UK but not part of Great Britain Razz

Well that was my point. You're excluding NI from your posts.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by veya_victaous on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:16 am

it is interesting if Scotland and Ireland leave then 'great' Britain is no more...
will you change your flag?

cause i think we should really change our flag if the British flag no longer exists scratch

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:45 am

veya_victaous wrote:it is interesting if Scotland and Ireland leave then 'great' Britain is no more...
will you change your flag?

cause i think we should really change our flag if the British flag no longer exists scratch

Another one who doesn't understand that NI is not part of Great Britain. You even seem to be lumping all of Ireland together. Learn some facts before you ask silly questions.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by veya_victaous on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:16 am

and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:21 am

veya_victaous wrote:and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag

Good call, the Jack is about to be relegated to just another symbol of the bad old days, like the swastika or the Confederate flag.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:28 am

                                         

Irn Bru for el presidente of the New Scottish Republic...

And Korben for his Foreign Minister/Secretary of State..

You know it makes sense !
                 <<-- England next year..

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:43 pm

veya wrote:still the blue part of the union jack should go

The blue part comes from Scotland, representing the St. Andrew's cross flag:



It depends on which side you align yourselves.  Here are the iterations in the evolution of the flag:


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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:28 pm

veya_victaous wrote:and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag

possibly veya...but if you wish to be honest you had best change it to either the chinese flag or, more appropriately

a white cross on a white background......

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:35 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag

Good call, the Jack is about to be relegated to just another symbol of the bad old days, like the swastika or the Confederate flag.


Tad difficult, when its on numereous other flags
How you associate the British flag alongside the Swastica, which was nicked by the nazis as its an ancient sancript symbol.
This coming from an American, that has 50 stars on their flag. To remind the world how they ethnically cleansed most of these states of native Indians.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35890670

Also if Scotland was to leave, nothing has to happen to the flag, unless England comes fully independent.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by eddie on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:05 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag

Good call, the Jack is about to be relegated to just another symbol of the bad old days, like the swastika or the Confederate flag.

Have you been reading conspiracy stories?


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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:15 pm

Belfast post office runs out of passport forms
 
The main post office in Belfast has apparently run out of passport forms "due to the increased demand".
 
Google Trends also reported a spike in searches for terms such as "Irish passport" following the Brexit vote.

Central Post Office Belfast:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-live-latest-news-updates-petition-remain-uk-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-a7102491.html


Hells Bells, Ireland is going to unite pretty damn quick lol

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Ian Paisley Jr urges Northern Irish citizens to apply for Republic of Ireland passports
'My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents,' says Mr Paisley



The leading Northern Ireland Unionist, Ian Paisley Jr, has advised constituents to get a Republic of Ireland passport if possible.
An MP with the Democratic Union Party (DUP), Mr Paisley campaigned for Brexit ahead of the referendum.
But he said on Twitter: "My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents.



"My advice is to take as many as you can especially if you travel to different world trouble zones."
The remain vote carried a 55.8 per cent majority in Northern Ireland, inspiring calls by Republican party Sinn Fein for a referendum in Northern Ireland on a unified Ireland.
Like his late father the Rev Ian Paisley, he is fiercely opposed to republicanism and has supported the Northern Ireland Secretary, Teresa Villiers, over ruling out such a poll.
Offering his conclusions on the Brexit result, he said: 'The union is safe and we are out of Europe, No conflict just victory!'
Responding to a Gary Lineker tweet about Brexit, in which the former England footballer said he was "ashamed of my generation", Mr Paisley joked: "I didn't think you played that bad. You are being hard on yourself."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/unionist-ian-paisley-jr-mp-constituents-apply-republic-of-ireland-eire-passports-a7102761.html


That's gobsmacking, the leading Unionist in N.Ireland to say that!

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Ireland has long been a route into uk for asylum seekers and others...


Get into Ireland then get Irish citizenship... then uk as an EU member on Irish passport...



Same as in other eu countries... get in... get citizenship... then get passport... then get into uk...



Hopefully this out vote means an end to this too!!!

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:22 pm

You really don't think do you.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:22 pm

sassy wrote:Belfast post office runs out of passport forms
 
The main post office in Belfast has apparently run out of passport forms "due to the increased demand".
 
Google Trends also reported a spike in searches for terms such as "Irish passport" following the Brexit vote.

Central Post Office Belfast:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-live-latest-news-updates-petition-remain-uk-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-a7102491.html


Hells Bells, Ireland is going to unite pretty damn quick lol


It may help understand why this has happened.



from your same link.


IKan Paisley Jr urges Northern Irish citizens to apply for Republic of Ireland passports
In news I never thought I would be reading, Ian Paisley has advised constituents to get a Republic of Ireland passport, if possible.

But that's to say Ian Paisley Jr, an MP with the Democratic Union Party (DUP), who campaigned for Brexit ahead of the referendum.

He wrote on Twitter: ""My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents."

See our full story below



So its more about hedging your bets than anything else.
Also if people move from the North to the South, that would only solidify the Northern Irish remaining as a part of the UK

Doh

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:32 pm

Oh good grief, how stupid are you.   They are not going to move to the South, they are going to hold two passports.  

"My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents."

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:41 pm

sassy wrote:Oh good grief, how stupid are you.   They are not going to move to the South, they are going to hold two passports.  

"My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents."


No they are not going to move south, as all that was asked is to apply for both passports as a safety measure.
Its there in black and white that many people are being advised to do so and being the unemployment is high in Southern Ireland, its doubtgful anyone would move.
This about how they have the ability to have and hold two passports.
As where is the many houses up for sale in Northern ireland Sassy, with people buying up in the South.
Seriously, its embarressing the invented bullshit you continue to make up

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:01 pm

Sassy showing lack of understanding once again...

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by eddie on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:03 pm

Hahahahahaha I really have to find a red button for the panic room on here

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Miffs2 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:32 pm

eddie wrote:Hahahahahaha I really have to find a red button for the panic room on here
Hahahahaha
We're doomed !
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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by sassy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:15 pm

Looks like Scotland and Northern Ireland may have a veto on Brexit process - p 19 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf …






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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:36 pm

sassy wrote:Leading Scottish politicians are calling for another referendum on independence from the UK after Britain voted to exit the EU. The Scottish public backed staying in the bloc and former SNP leader Alex Salmond says Scotland should “never leave the EU.”


Salmond made the comments during an interview with Sky News: “The sensible thing for Scotland to do would never be to leave the European Union,” he said.

His comments were backed by the current leader of the SNP, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also backing a second independence vote, after 62 percent of the population voted to remain in Europe. This was against the tide of the rest of the UK where 52 percent voted to leave the bloc.

"Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," Sturgeon said on Friday before the final result was known, as cited by Reuters.

"Scotland has contributed significantly to the Remain vote across the UK. That reflects the positive campaign the SNP fought, which highlighted the gains and benefits of our EU membership, and people across Scotland have responded to that positive message,” she added. 
Sturgeon has remained consistent about her threat to call a second referendum. Speaking in April, she said: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people.” 


In May, Salmond said Scotland would not be pulled out of the EU “against its will.”  



https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-brexit-uk-independence/








Think the song should be 'all by ourselves'
the eu have said tonight that they will not automatically gain entry if they leave the UK. Robert peston is going to ask wee jimmy krankie about it tomorrow.


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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:37 pm

sassy wrote:Leading Scottish politicians are calling for another referendum on independence from the UK after Britain voted to exit the EU. The Scottish public backed staying in the bloc and former SNP leader Alex Salmond says Scotland should “never leave the EU.”


Salmond made the comments during an interview with Sky News: “The sensible thing for Scotland to do would never be to leave the European Union,” he said.

His comments were backed by the current leader of the SNP, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also backing a second independence vote, after 62 percent of the population voted to remain in Europe. This was against the tide of the rest of the UK where 52 percent voted to leave the bloc.

"Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," Sturgeon said on Friday before the final result was known, as cited by Reuters.

"Scotland has contributed significantly to the Remain vote across the UK. That reflects the positive campaign the SNP fought, which highlighted the gains and benefits of our EU membership, and people across Scotland have responded to that positive message,” she added. 
Sturgeon has remained consistent about her threat to call a second referendum. Speaking in April, she said: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people.” 


In May, Salmond said Scotland would not be pulled out of the EU “against its will.”  



https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-brexit-uk-independence/








Think the song should be 'all by ourselves'
presumably you will be argueing that if there is not a 75% turnout that it will be void?

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:38 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
sassy wrote:Leading Scottish politicians are calling for another referendum on independence from the UK after Britain voted to exit the EU. The Scottish public backed staying in the bloc and former SNP leader Alex Salmond says Scotland should “never leave the EU.”


Salmond made the comments during an interview with Sky News: “The sensible thing for Scotland to do would never be to leave the European Union,” he said.

His comments were backed by the current leader of the SNP, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also backing a second independence vote, after 62 percent of the population voted to remain in Europe. This was against the tide of the rest of the UK where 52 percent voted to leave the bloc.

"Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," Sturgeon said on Friday before the final result was known, as cited by Reuters.

"Scotland has contributed significantly to the Remain vote across the UK. That reflects the positive campaign the SNP fought, which highlighted the gains and benefits of our EU membership, and people across Scotland have responded to that positive message,” she added. 
Sturgeon has remained consistent about her threat to call a second referendum. Speaking in April, she said: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people.” 


In May, Salmond said Scotland would not be pulled out of the EU “against its will.”  



https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-brexit-uk-independence/








Think the song should be 'all by ourselves'
presumably you will be argueing that if there is not a 75% turnout that it will be void?



lol!

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:39 pm

sassy wrote:Leading Scottish politicians are calling for another referendum on independence from the UK after Britain voted to exit the EU. The Scottish public backed staying in the bloc and former SNP leader Alex Salmond says Scotland should “never leave the EU.”


Salmond made the comments during an interview with Sky News: “The sensible thing for Scotland to do would never be to leave the European Union,” he said.

His comments were backed by the current leader of the SNP, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also backing a second independence vote, after 62 percent of the population voted to remain in Europe. This was against the tide of the rest of the UK where 52 percent voted to leave the bloc.

"Scotland has delivered a strong, unequivocal vote to remain in the EU, and I welcome that endorsement of our European status," Sturgeon said on Friday before the final result was known, as cited by Reuters.

"Scotland has contributed significantly to the Remain vote across the UK. That reflects the positive campaign the SNP fought, which highlighted the gains and benefits of our EU membership, and people across Scotland have responded to that positive message,” she added. 
Sturgeon has remained consistent about her threat to call a second referendum. Speaking in April, she said: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people.” 


In May, Salmond said Scotland would not be pulled out of the EU “against its will.”  



https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-brexit-uk-independence/








Think the song should be 'all by ourselves'
hmmm odd how scotlans vote is 60% of the population when the turnout was below 60% but the uk's turnout which was 72% is invalid.,

are you sure these rules dont only apply when you dont get your own way?????

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:40 pm

veya_victaous wrote:and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag
no, the IRA are demanding that, no doubt they will shoot or bomb a few people to make their point.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:41 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:and NI are campaigning to leave the UK too and rejoin Ireland Rolling Eyes

still the blue part of the union jack should go
Seems like a good time to change our flag and swap the union jack for aboriginal flag

Good call, the Jack is about to be relegated to just another symbol of the bad old days, like the swastika or the Confederate flag.
the union jack fly on naval ships, our flag is called the Union Flag

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:45 pm

sassy wrote:Belfast post office runs out of passport forms
 
The main post office in Belfast has apparently run out of passport forms "due to the increased demand".
 
Google Trends also reported a spike in searches for terms such as "Irish passport" following the Brexit vote.

Central Post Office Belfast:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-live-latest-news-updates-petition-remain-uk-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-a7102491.html


Hells Bells, Ireland is going to unite pretty damn quick lol
lots of people wanting to become british then, Or does the belfast post office deal in passport applications fro an entirely different country?

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:46 pm

Hello there Flap... it's just another example of the lefties 'quantum thinking'...!


And they are also forgetting that over 2million Scots have already voted to stay in the UK... fully aware that the eu referendum was coming for the whole of UK to decide... and fully aware that the result could well be leave!

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:46 pm

sassy wrote:Ian Paisley Jr urges Northern Irish citizens to apply for Republic of Ireland passports
'My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents,' says Mr Paisley



The leading Northern Ireland Unionist, Ian Paisley Jr, has advised constituents to get a Republic of Ireland passport if possible.
An MP with the Democratic Union Party (DUP), Mr Paisley campaigned for Brexit ahead of the referendum.
But he said on Twitter: "My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents.



"My advice is to take as many as you can especially if you travel to different world trouble zones."
The remain vote carried a 55.8 per cent majority in Northern Ireland, inspiring calls by Republican party Sinn Fein for a referendum in Northern Ireland on a unified Ireland.
Like his late father the Rev Ian Paisley, he is fiercely opposed to republicanism and has supported the Northern Ireland Secretary, Teresa Villiers, over ruling out such a poll.
Offering his conclusions on the Brexit result, he said: 'The union is safe and we are out of Europe, No conflict just victory!'
Responding to a Gary Lineker tweet about Brexit, in which the former England footballer said he was "ashamed of my generation", Mr Paisley joked: "I didn't think you played that bad. You are being hard on yourself."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/unionist-ian-paisley-jr-mp-constituents-apply-republic-of-ireland-eire-passports-a7102761.html


That's gobsmacking, the leading Unionist in N.Ireland to say that!
If I was gary linaker I would be more ashamed of cheating on my wife.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:47 pm

sassy wrote:You really don't think do you.
border controls with ireland and scotland are inevitable if they leave.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:48 pm

sassy wrote:Oh good grief, how stupid are you.   They are not going to move to the South, they are going to hold two passports.  

"My advice is if you are entitled to second passport then take one. I sign off lots of applications for constituents."
and remain in the UK then. good, no problem with that.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:50 pm

sassy wrote:Looks like Scotland and Northern Ireland may have a veto on Brexit process - p 19 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf …





the desperation of the left is a joy to behold. Scotland is not an eu member the UK is. the EU said tonight they would not get automatic entry, which no doubt means back of the queue., And then hope spain does not veto their application. I am not sure they would welcome a separatist movement.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Hello there Flap... it's just another example of the lefties 'quantum thinking'...!


And they are also forgetting that over 2million Scots have already voted to stay in the UK... fully aware that the eu referendum was coming for the whole of UK to decide... and fully aware that the result could well be leave!
I have seen many scots on twitter who voted stay but dont want to leave the UK. Why leave one democracy for a system that isn't

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:23 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
sassy wrote:Looks like Scotland and Northern Ireland may have a veto on Brexit process - p 19 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf …





the desperation of the left is a joy to behold. Scotland is not an eu member the UK is. the EU said tonight they would not get automatic entry, which no doubt means back of the queue., And then hope spain does not veto their application. I am not sure they would welcome a separatist movement.

Don't panic Dean.  It's all negotiable.  

If Scotland wishes not to stay in the EU, and the Scotland Act, section 29, prohibits withdrawal, then Scotland should immediately register (with the EU) it's disavowal of UK's withdrawal with the EU, on it's own behalf, and independent of the UK resignation, and: (1)assert their right to independent sovereignty (within the UK); and (2) assert a right to remain in the EU (within the UK).

That way Scotland is not bound by any action taken by the UK, and any move to remove Scotland from the rolls of the EU, will be deemed an ouster (by the EU), not a resignation.  That changes everyone's negotiation position.  Scotland severs it's intentions from the UK; the UK is denied the power to act on behalf of Scotland; and the EU, should it remove Scotland, will establish precedent that it claim's a right, and will unilaterally, gratuitously, remove a member.  This latter establishes a sanction given to the Union, that should give pause to other members.

It's a chess game; position your pieces.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:37 am

Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
the desperation of the left is a joy to behold. Scotland is not an eu member the UK is. the EU said tonight they would not get automatic entry, which no doubt means back of the queue., And then hope spain does not veto their application. I am not sure they would welcome a separatist movement.

Don't panic Dean.  It's all negotiable.  

If Scotland wishes not to stay in the EU, and the Scotland Act, section 29, prohibits withdrawal, then Scotland should immediately register (with the EU) it's disavowal of UK's withdrawal with the EU, on it's own behalf, and independent of the UK resignation, and: (1)assert their right to independent sovereignty (within the UK); and (2) assert a right to remain in the EU (within the UK).

That way Scotland is not bound by any action taken by the UK, and any move to remove Scotland from the rolls of the EU, will be deemed an ouster (by the EU), not a resignation.  That changes everyone's negotiation position.  Scotland severs it's intentions from the UK; the UK is denied the power to act on behalf of Scotland; and the EU, should it remove Scotland, will establish precedent that it claim's a right, and will unilaterally, gratuitously, remove a member.  This latter establishes a sanction given to the Union, that should give pause to other members.

It's a chess game; position your pieces.



Incorrect
Scotland is only within the EU as a part of a UK treaty, not an independent Scottish treaty. Of which this same flawed claim to veto was brought up in 2914. Where there is no precedence for a part of the UK. to cast any veot on a uk voye. Scotland requires a seperate EU treaty and indepence. Only by independce would Scotland be free to decide their
So neither the EU or Scotland can do anything and Scotland cannot overrule a Uk based referendum
So Scotland can only gain indepence and only by a referendum. They are only part of the UK treaty
So if scotland severs away froom the uk. It can only bee done illegally, as they are part of union acts with the uk

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:36 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
sassy wrote:
You really don't think do you.
border controls with ireland and scotland are inevitable if they leave.

cheers

NOT TO WORRY,  Deano...

That would mean a few hundred people taken off the unemployed queues on both sides..

Nice little economic boost to those local border communities.         sunny

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:07 am

didge wrote:Incorrect
Scotland is only within the EU as a part of a UK treaty, not an independent Scottish treaty. Of which this same flawed claim to veto was brought up in 2914. Where there is no precedence for a part of the UK. to cast any veot on a uk voye. Scotland requires a seperate EU treaty and indepence. Only by independce would Scotland be free to decide their

That's the beauty of becoming proactive right away.  We are not talking about veto here, but membership.  Veto competition is another matter; here we are talking about survival of the relationship that both Scotland and the EU want.  England can go; we won't veto that. It's just that we won't be joining England. It's positioning, to take best advantage of what you already have.

Scotland already has partial independence through devolution and an independent legislative body.  And, of all the luck, with section 29 of the Scotland Act already in place, she already has a legislative mandate to stay in (not to withdraw from) the EU.  It's a fait accompli.

didge wrote:So neither the EU or Scotland can do anything and Scotland cannot overrule a Uk based referendum

Ah, but you see?  Scotland is not doing anything to overrule the UK.  She is merely taking advantage of her preexisting home rule to say, hey, we can't do that...we've got section 29 here!

didge wrote:So Scotland can only gain indepence and only by a referendum. They are only part of the UK treaty
So if scotland severs away froom the uk. It can only bee done illegally, as they are part of union acts with the uk

Scotland is not seeking independence (just yet).  She is merely asserting the rights that the UK has already given her.  Scotland already has partial independence and home rule.  

Having written section 29, with the full knowledge and acquiescence of the UK, Scotland is merely asserting it's own law, as authorized by the UK.  The UK must either retract home rule for Scotland, or respect it's previous commitments and allow it to respect it's own laws already in place.

We needn't worry about an independent Scotland just yet.  The goal is to divorce from England's decision to leave the EU and to convince the EU that Scotland is already there, and has the right of retention (not seeking) of membership in the EU.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:26 am

Just laughed at the gibberish above
Scotland is not a fully indepedent state
That requires a referendum, of which we have had two years ago and the people voted to remain part of the UK.
So they wiould require either to become indepedent or require the Governemnt of the UK to allow them to have a special agreement with the EU
So Scotland cannot act and make a treaty with the EU.
She also has to waiit as has every other nation that has applied to join, has to first meet the cretieria tro join and be approverd and not be vetoed by any of the member states. The UK could block any move by Scotland until she has the right to leave by vote of the scottish people. If she attempts to apply to join, she will be breaking international law, as she has a treaty and union with the UK
. So you really have not got a clue what you are talking about

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:08 am

Twisty waffle from Quill...


Referendums such as this eu one and the recent Scots one are once in a generation things... it's been 40 years since the last say on things with Europe...


You can't keep going on about having another go until you get the "right" answer...




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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:32 pm

If Scotland want another referendum....urged on by the encouragement of that Jeanette Cranky lookalike...let them. They have never got over losing their last referendum really.

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:08 pm

Didge wrote:Just laughed at the gibberish above
Scotland is not a fully indepedent state
That requires a referendum, of which we have had two years ago and the people voted to remain part of the UK.
So they wiould require either to become indepedent or require the Governemnt of the UK to allow them to have a special agreement with the EU
So Scotland cannot act and make a treaty with the EU.
She also has to waiit as has every other nation that has applied to join, has to first meet the cretieria tro join and be approverd and not be vetoed by any of the member states. The UK could block any move by Scotland until she has the right to leave by vote of the scottish people. If she attempts to apply to join, she will be breaking international law, as she has a treaty and union with the UK
. So you really have not got a clue what you are talking about

As usual, you are slow to grasp a dynamic point.

These are uncharted waters, but the action at hand is at the behest of the UK.  Scotland asks for nothing but to be left in its place.  So the action here to be taken would be that of the UK.  Scotland has no need for a referendum.

Furthermore, Scotland's position vis-a-vis the EU is to do nothing.  It asks nothing more than to permit its continued membership.  If the EU ousts Scotland, it is gratuitous.

As soon as this is all accomplished, the Pacific States of America will be extending an invitation to Scotland to join it in a grand awakening of the new, New World.

Cheers...

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:14 pm

Syl wrote:If Scotland want another referendum....urged on by the encouragement of that Jeanette Cranky lookalike...let them. They have never got over losing their last referendum really.

I'll take it. It's another vote, regardless of your reasons. But again, Scotland has no need of a referendum...it need only communicate that it wants no changes. Wink

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Didge on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Just laughed at the gibberish above
Scotland is not a fully indepedent state
That requires a referendum, of which we have had two years ago and the people voted to remain part of the UK.
So they wiould require either to become indepedent or require the Governemnt of the UK to allow them to have a special agreement with the EU
So Scotland cannot act and make a treaty with the EU.
She also has to waiit as has every other nation that has applied to join, has to first meet the cretieria tro join and be approverd and not be vetoed by any of the member states. The UK could block any move by Scotland until she has the right to leave by vote of the scottish people. If she attempts to apply to join, she will be breaking international law, as she has a treaty and union with the UK
. So you really have not got a clue what you are talking about

As usual, you are slow to grasp a dynamic point.

These are uncharted waters, but the action at hand is at the behest of the UK.  Scotland asks for nothing but to be left in its place.  So the action here to be taken would be that of the UK.  Scotland has no need for a referendum.

Furthermore, Scotland's position vis-a-vis the EU is to do nothing.  Permit its continued membership.  If it ousts Scotland, it is gratuitous.

As soon as this is all accomplished, the Pacific States of America will be extending an invitation to Scotland to join it in a grand awakening of the new, New World.

Cheers...


More gibberish

Scotland is binded by a union signed treaty and treaties are binding through international law
Scotland alsio did ask to be left in its place and the majority of Scots wanted to be in the same place. As part of the uk.
So again in two situations, we see the left want make a mockery of democracy and self determination and act like dictators, when they do not get their way. So again for the very slow witted, once the UK invokes artcile 50, which will bring into effect the Uk becoming seperated from the EU. That Scotland will. also seperate, being as this was not a vote just for the Scottish people but a vote for the people of the United Kingdom. Well if Scotland took up your offer to join your so called new world in the US, they would be taking 3 steps backwards, being as under UK law, people have far more equality, than they do in the US.
So let me repeat for the uneducated.

Scotland, if it wants to become a part of the EU, once the UK has left.
Has to first obtain a second referendum to vote for independence. As they have only just recently had one, the likelyhood, is that th4 next one would not even be set for at least 10 years. As one was already held 2 years ago, whgen people knew back then of the possibility. That the Uk would vote to leave. What you are again doing is placing all those who voted to remain as part of the UK as insignificant. That where they fought they had won the battle to keep Scotland as a part of the Uk for decades to come. Aliong comes some regressives. Who propose, ignoring international law, breaking treaties illegally, going againts the wishes of the majority view of a people, where they are left toi feel that any further voting is pointless, as the say has become meaningless. To last of all, render democracy redundent and issue in a new age of Regresive lefty tyrants

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Re: Scotland should ‘never leave EU’ - calls for new independence vote grow

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:26 pm

Syl wrote:If Scotland want another referendum....urged on by the encouragement of that Jeanette Cranky lookalike...let them. They have never got over losing their last referendum really.
Wee jimmie  krankie was full of righteous indignation on the news this morning.
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