Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

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Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:39 pm

This is such a global issue now and something we've all been kicking around, and this article was fascinating and well documented from the well intentioned group that wanted to 'DO SOMETHING' to the opposing group that 'WANT TO STOP THE REFUGEES' and all of the discussions in between. 
But the #1 irony is - 'what the hell would someone from Kenya or Syria do in Montana?', where the climates are far more extreme than anything they'd be accustom to - especially during those long winters! 
But is that a valid excuse or just the softer message that covers up such a deeper fear?
It's a very long article so I've selected the high notes and edited the sections down to small snippets** ...the link as always is provided for more in-depth reading for those of you that enjoy doing such a thing!  
In Montana, neighbors at odds over whether to welcome refugees
Associated Press  10 hrs ago

MISSOULA — For the world, the photograph of a Syrian 3-year-old in a red T-shirt and black sneakers, his lifeless body washed up on a Turkish beach, was a horrific symbol of the desperation of hundreds of thousands of refugees.
For Mary Poole, a young mother haunted by "those little shoes ... the little face," it was an inspiration.
She and members of her book club asked: Why not bring a small number of Syrian families to Missoula?

She knows now that this was a "romantic" notion. "It wasn't even a grain of sand in my brain that people wouldn't want to help starving, drowning families. I didn't do this to be controversial. I didn't do this to stir the pot."
But it did. And what started as a disagreement over whether to welcome dozens of refugees to this peaceful corner of western Montana soon erupted into something much larger, encompassing wildly divergent views of Islam, big government and whether Americans should "take care of our own" before worrying about newcomers.
Neighboring counties — and in some cases, neighbors — locked horns.
Demonstrators took to the streets: "No Jobs, No Housing, No Free Anything," proclaimed some opponents' signs. Some warned that Islamic State terrorists could infiltrate their communities; others suggested that the federal government, long accused of tyranny in its dealings with the West, was at it again.
The refugees' supporters did not back off. "Rise Above Fear, Refugees Welcome" they declared.

**Missoula's mayor, John Engen, was among them. "I think that the war on terror has produced an internal war on compassion," he says. "We have been programmed to be very afraid since 9/11 and to think of people who aren't white Anglo-Saxon Americans as 'other' and we should be afraid of people who are 'other.'"  This did not occur in a vacuum.

It is not, however, a diverse place. Though the sparsely populated state is home to seven Indian reservations, nearly nine of 10 residents are white, according to Census figures. Only about 2 percent are foreign-born. Since 2012, the state has welcomed just 13 refugees from Cuba and Iraq, according to officials.
But Missoula, site of a World War II detention center for Japanese-Americans, Italian merchant seamen and others, has a recent history of embracing refugees. The International Rescue Committee resettled the Hmong in the late 1970s and through the 1980s; some remain as farmers. Later, another agency brought Ukrainians and Belarusians here.

With its coffee houses, murals and bike trails, Missoula has a laid-back feel. It is home to the University of Montana, as well as a peace center named for Jeannette Rankin, a pacifist who was the first woman member of Congress — and the only vote against declaring war on Japan after the Pearl Harbor attack. The center's philosophy is captured on a wall lined with bumper stickers — "Peace is Patriotic," ''Books Not Bombs" and "Practice Nonviolence" — and a stenciled message on a front window: "Refugees Welcome."

**But Missoula is an island of progressive blue surrounded by a sea of conservative red, and often diverges politically from other communities in Montana.
Just to the south, in rural and Republican Ravalli County, a county commissioners' hearing over the issue was moved to a middle school gym to accommodate the hundreds who showed up for what turned into a raucous meeting. Several pro-refugee speakers were jeered .The commissioners formalized their opposition in their own letter to federal officials— and Flathead County, nearly 130 miles north of Missoula, did the same weeks later.

**"There's no 800 number you can call into Morocco or Libya or any one of those places ... and say, 'Can you check the identity of this person?' Without the ability to properly vet them, it's literally putting Americans' lives at risk," says Eli Anselmi, who felt compelled to write a letter even though he lives three hours away in Bozeman.
The risk may be minimal, he says, but the potential harm is great. "Let's say that you have a bowl of M&Ms ... and there are two that have cyanide. Will you eat from that bowl?"

**Supporters of the refugees weighed in with reminders of America's tradition of providing sanctuary to those who've fled war and oppression; some cited their own family history. They spoke of empathy, pointed to a lengthy screening process and noted the other refugees who resettled here successfully in recent decades.
Shawn Wathen, a bookstore owner in Ravalli County, was appalled his 18-year-old son was booed when he testified in support of the refugees and then later cursed by some opponents. Wathen wrote the commissioners, accusing them of "xenophobic grandstanding." One replied that he was "ignorant."
Wathen, who has called the sprawling Bitterroot Valley home for 20 years, sees the rejection of refugees as a blend of misinformation, economic anxiety and fear of the unknown.
"It surpasses any notion of reason ... that kind of idea that they are not us, and therefore they pose a threat," he says. "There's just that sense the horde is out there and if we don't circle the wagons ... we're going to be overrun and poor white America is going to suffer."
America has a long history of wariness of refugees.
Last November, shortly after the Paris terrorist attacks, a Gallup poll found that Americans, by 60 to 37 percent, opposed taking in refugees fleeing the Syrian civil war. In 1978, there was a 57 to 32 percent opposition to accepting Indochinese boat people, and in 1946, after World War II, the public was against welcoming displaced people from Europe, including Jews, by 72 to 16 percent.
Generally, Americans tend to favor refugees with whom they share some connection — political, religious or personal — and the public has little interaction with Muslims, says David Haines, a professor emeritus at George Mason University who has written extensively about refugees.
He says the public doesn't understand the rigorous vetting process. "The risks from refugees are really low because it's an extremely well-screened population," he says. "But it's hard for people to settle down on this issue, especially in a highly politicized context."
In Missoula, academics and religious leaders have expressed alarm about the harsh tone of the presidential campaign, especially comments aimed at Muslims by Donald Trump. In April, they sponsored "Celebrate Islam Week" at the university in hopes of countering the trend.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/in-montana-neighbors-at-odds-over-whether-to-welcome-refugees/article_b8a1e139-e823-5f90-8dc4-2afd9e2243f4.html

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:55 pm

Let the Arab league look after the Syrians and the African league look after the kenyans.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:00 pm

I'd like to see the refugees arrive and read some very successful and happy stories a year after they've arrived.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:15 pm

eddie wrote:I'd like to see the refugees arrive and read some very successful and happy stories a year after they've arrived.

Which side of my family ancestral tree would you like me to post about: my aboriginal/native American side or the German/Jewish side?  LOL 
Or did you want something more recent '?' because this country - we've been taking in refugees forever and we've got the full-meal-deal smorgasbord of national flavored restaurants to prove it too; well, the only exception would be the food found only on the 'Rez' ...seems no one thinks eating like a poor native American is fine cuisine so that's never been popular.

But seriously - our entire history is filled with our melting pot of refugee/slave labor/tenant farmers/indentured servant labor success stories ...it's in all of our bio's.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:04 pm

I have no problem with refugees - my problem is when they cram them all into one area as they've done in England.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:09 pm

of course there is the other minor point, totally overlooked by the left mindset.....

no doubt these refugees will be comfortably housed, provided with free medical care (for how long) etc etc etc etc ....


yet your own out of luck homeless, those dieing from lack of medical aid etc .......

will be left even more unlikely to get any aid...."our budget is overstretched"

hard luck bud...you are a "native" ...you can go starve....Imposed this time NOT by an invader...but by their own..
civil war anyone?

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:23 pm

Lord Foul wrote:of course there is the other minor point, totally overlooked by the left mindset.....

no doubt these refugees will be comfortably housed, provided with free medical care (for how long) etc etc etc etc ....


yet your own out of luck homeless, those dieing from lack of medical aid etc .......

will be left even more unlikely to get any aid...."our budget is overstretched"

hard luck bud...you are a "native" ...you can go starve....Imposed this time NOT by an invader...but by their own..
civil war anyone?

And your answer is.....

That's the trouble with the right mindset...never a complete answer.  Criticism yes...answer no.  Leave it to the abyss of nothingness.

If you're concerned about the homeless, have a go at the problem.  Get your hands dirty.  Don't be one of those cap-doffers who is late for tea. What you really mean is you like a quick quip, but not the responsibility to go along with it.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:28 pm

the point is Quill...at least from where I sit....

I already DO "do something"...like all good citizens I pay my taxes...part of which is supposed to go to the "social budget"

and the size of that social budget is determined by "census"

and does not account for provision to an unspecifed number of "non contributor beneficiaries"


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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:32 pm

effectively, money I pay into the syatem to pay for provision for the less fortunate HERE....

is diverted without my consent to provide for the less fortunate of "everywhere and anywhere"...

Now I pay into a NATIONAL social security system...NOT a "global" one..

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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:of course there is the other minor point, totally overlooked by the left mindset.....

no doubt these refugees will be comfortably housed, provided with free medical care (for how long) etc etc etc etc ....


yet your own out of luck homeless, those dieing from lack of medical aid etc .......

will be left even more unlikely to get any aid...."our budget is overstretched"

hard luck bud...you are a "native" ...you can go starve....Imposed this time NOT by an invader...but by their own..
civil war anyone?

And your answer is.....

That's the trouble with the right mindset...never a complete answer.  Criticism yes...answer no.  Leave it to the abyss of nothingness.

If you're concerned about the homeless, have a go at the problem.  Get your hands dirty.  Don't be one of those cap-doffers who is late for tea.  What you really mean is you like a quick quip, but not the responsibility to go along with it.



Which is a fine example of left wing inequality

If you let the refugees in without housing and solving then problem of homelessness, then you are rendering them as secondary to the refugees themselves.

So by your views above you actually are in agreement with Victor that before the nation accepts any refugees they should solve the problem of the homeless first then?

So we come full circle in the point here.

I on the other hand want to help people who want to become a part of or nation.

What nobody is asking is those who it may well effect of certain people coming here who hold views that treat them with prejudice.

Ie women, LGTB, religious minorities ect

By bringing people who's views are in conflict with the well being and equality of the above people. Is going to have an adverse effect, creating a further rise in bigotry all round. Sadly to the genuine refugees that want to make a life here and by refugees that come here intent on discriminating against others with no intent to integrate.
There needs to be a far better wany to check people entering the country but of those homeless, they are being constantly discarded for refugees to take precedence

That is inequality

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by sassy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:36 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
eddie wrote:I'd like to see the refugees arrive and read some very successful and happy stories a year after they've arrived.

Which side of my family ancestral tree would you like me to post about: my aboriginal/native American side or the German/Jewish side?  LOL 
Or did you want something more recent '?' because this country - we've been taking in refugees forever and we've got the full-meal-deal smorgasbord of national flavored restaurants to prove it too; well, the only exception would be the food found only on the 'Rez' ...seems no one thinks eating like a poor native American is fine cuisine so that's never been popular.

But seriously - our entire history is filled with our melting pot of refugee/slave labor/tenant farmers/indentured servant labor success stories ...it's in all of our bio's.


So many times those who shout the loudest turn out to have a multitude of different ethnicities in their DNA when tested, gives them a hellava shock lol

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:39 pm

sassy wrote:
4EVER2 wrote:

Which side of my family ancestral tree would you like me to post about: my aboriginal/native American side or the German/Jewish side?  LOL 
Or did you want something more recent '?' because this country - we've been taking in refugees forever and we've got the full-meal-deal smorgasbord of national flavored restaurants to prove it too; well, the only exception would be the food found only on the 'Rez' ...seems no one thinks eating like a poor native American is fine cuisine so that's never been popular.

But seriously - our entire history is filled with our melting pot of refugee/slave labor/tenant farmers/indentured servant labor success stories ...it's in all of our bio's.


So many times those who shout the loudest turn out to have a multitude of different ethnicities in their DNA when tested, gives them a hellava shock lol


Not many people are concerned about ethnic ancestry where people come from

Its their beliefs they are concerned about, espcially for groups that face discrimination from the country of origins some of these people come from.
Again nobody is asking threm how thery feel about a possible rise that sime coming will hold views that treat them with prejudice and discrmination

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:40 pm

Lord Foul wrote:the point is Quill...at least from where I sit....

I already know what your point is: a hit-and-run political argument.

Lord Foul wrote:I already DO "do something"...like all good citizens I pay my taxes...part of which is supposed to go to the "social budget"

Fook yer taxes.  We all pay them.  You could and should be doing more.  You conservatives live in a two-dimensional world, in which property and taxes are the only measure of reality.  If the only thing you are contributing to your community are taxes, you are already a loss.

But I'm not on a recruitment gig, here.  My point is that the conservative contribution is always the same: use an argument so long as it's rhetoric-value lasts, but never be sincere and address the problem.  That's false and mendacious.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:the point is Quill...at least from where I sit....

I already know what your point is: a hit-and-run political argument.

Lord Foul wrote:I already DO "do something"...like all good citizens I pay my taxes...part of which is supposed to go to the "social budget"

Fook yer taxes.  We all pay them.  You could and should be doing more.  You conservatives live in a two-dimensional world, in which property and taxes are the only measure of reality.  If the only thing you are contributing to your community are taxes, you are already a loss.

But I'm not on a recruitment gig, here.  My point is that the conservative contribution is always the same: use an argument so long as it's rhetoric-value lasts, but never be sincere and address the problem.  That's false and mendacious.



And as stated in my previous post to you, that you promoted inequality.
If you are providing housing over those homeless, because the situation has not been resolved, that is inequality and you would then have to be in agreement with Victor, as you said it needs to be resolved.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:54 pm

Unfortunate that the well written article gets left out of the discussion ...yet the regurgitated Lefty vs Righty is the only talking point that 'SOME' manage to push around in any given REFUGEEE topic!  No

And if you've the time and are truly interested, Eddie ...there are so many really great human interest/success stories about, how refugees have taken their own destiny and made this country into something better and a sustaining future for all of their family.

******
Success Stories | Office of Refugee Resettlement ...
www.acf.hhs.gov › Office of Refugee Resettlement
Success Stories ... to assist them in becoming integrated members of American society. The Office of Refugee Resettlement is proud to present stories ...
*******

From Refugee Camp to Successful Entrepreneur - The Story ...

thestoryexchange.org/role-model-stateless-refugee-immigrant...
Video embedded · Nada Kiblawi was born in a refugee camp, lived through regional wars and finally found safe haven and economic independence as an entrepreneur in the U.S

******

Prominent Refugees | Refugees who have made a difference

www.unhcr-centraleurope.org/.../prominent-refugees.html?start=18 
Refugees or former refugees who have achieved special status within a community due to their achievements, or because they have overcome hardship to build a new life.
*********

Refugees and Successful Resettlement | whitehouse.gov

[*]https://www.whitehouse.gov/.../19/refugees-and-successful-resettlement  
Refugees and Successful Resettlement. ... Refugees coming to the United States have faced the most ... “Successful” resettlement means to assure that the ...
*******
Refugee Admissions - State
www.state.gov › Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration 
Refugee Resettlement in the United States. The United States is proud of its history of welcoming immigrants and refugees. The U.S. refugee resettlement program ...
*******

Vietnamese Refugees' Struggles Inspire Their Daughter's ...


www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/vietnamese-refugees-struggles...
Video embedded · Sahra Nguyen's parents escaped Vietnam to start their own businesses in America. Today, ... Vietnamese Refugees' Struggles Inspire Their …
********************
Granted ...you live on an island and we live on a area of land mass that makes that negligible for any comparisons; seems the British need to be better prepared and understanding or the impact that placement of any/many/few refugees do to that social & economic system.

I put this article here because; as we Americans look upon your situation and have our own opinions about the 'what ifs', that we feel 'YOU' all should do - we have some lesser thinking humans right here in America that think/act/speak just like the 'hate foreigners' that live among you!


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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:the point is Quill...at least from where I sit....

I already know what your point is: a hit-and-run political argument.

Lord Foul wrote:I already DO "do something"...like all good citizens I pay my taxes...part of which is supposed to go to the "social budget"

Fook yer taxes.  We all pay them.  You could and should be doing more.  You conservatives live in a two-dimensional world, in which property and taxes are the only measure of reality.  If the only thing you are contributing to your community are taxes, you are already a loss.

But I'm not on a recruitment gig, here.  My point is that the conservative contribution is always the same: use an argument so long as it's rhetoric-value lasts, but never be sincere and address the problem.  That's false and mendacious.

and what ...exactly ...do YOU do "extra" ????????

the fact that there ARE "homeless" folk is in fact and in any form of moral code the problem of the govt...who WE PAY to act in "the comon good".
It is the DUTY of govt to provide this necessary function and to do so via the taxation system.....otherwise what are we paying taxes for......?????


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If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by sassy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:55 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:the point is Quill...at least from where I sit....

I already know what your point is: a hit-and-run political argument.

Lord Foul wrote:I already DO "do something"...like all good citizens I pay my taxes...part of which is supposed to go to the "social budget"

Fook yer taxes.  We all pay them.  You could and should be doing more.  You conservatives live in a two-dimensional world, in which property and taxes are the only measure of reality.  If the only thing you are contributing to your community are taxes, you are already a loss.

But I'm not on a recruitment gig, here.  My point is that the conservative contribution is always the same: use an argument so long as it's rhetoric-value lasts, but never be sincere and address the problem.  That's false and mendacious.


Have to agree, when I see all the things our Labour group did to help the community, and you'd never see a Conservative.  When we had the bad fire in town, it was the Labour group that got stuck in.  When the Conservatives were going to shut down the library, it was the Labour group that provided volunteers to keep it open, and so on.   Will have to see whats going on around here.

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:22 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:of course there is the other minor point, totally overlooked by the left mindset.....
no doubt these refugees will be comfortably housed, provided with free medical care (for how long) etc etc etc etc ....
yet your own out of luck homeless, those dieing from lack of medical aid etc .......
will be left even more unlikely to get any aid...."our budget is overstretched"
hard luck bud...you are a "native" ...you can go starve....Imposed this time NOT by an invader...but by their own..
civil war anyone?

And your answer is.....

That's the trouble with the right mindset...never a complete answer.  Criticism yes...answer no.  Leave it to the abyss of nothingness.

If you're concerned about the homeless, have a go at the problem.  Get your hands dirty.  Don't be one of those cap-doffers who is late for tea.  What you really mean is you like a quick quip, but not the responsibility to go along with it.
SMH ...anytime anyone drudges up the 'what about all of those homeless that you've got laying about without proper housing'; I would ask you to be aware that we have a culture of 'HOBO' - wandering homeless/runaway/willful anti-social humans that do not/will not live in a structured homestead environment Rolling Eyes   We just can't force humans to live in the type of habitats that 'WE' think that they need too when they have 'FREE WILL' to do as they chose too.

Then there's that ole' they ain't one of us so that doesn't make them OUR PROBLEM; lovely - just F'n lovely No   When we can/should help even one human with a hand up - an opportunity to escape their horrid war zone/tribal warring faction region ...a few would rather we 'DO NOTHING BECAUSE IT'S EASIER' then to do something that may be hard but it's the right thing!  WOW, now that type of narrow minded human kindness just makes me shudder; cause when the chips were down and jolly ole' England needed the world's help {the warring powers to sustain your problems} didn't we do all that we could to rush to your aide? Suspect
How soon you forget what those years were like ...hmmm Rolling Eyes

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:24 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

And your answer is.....

That's the trouble with the right mindset...never a complete answer.  Criticism yes...answer no.  Leave it to the abyss of nothingness.

If you're concerned about the homeless, have a go at the problem.  Get your hands dirty.  Don't be one of those cap-doffers who is late for tea.  What you really mean is you like a quick quip, but not the responsibility to go along with it.
SMH ...anytime anyone drudges up the 'what about all of those homeless that you've got laying about without proper housing'; I would ask you to be aware that we have a culture of 'HOBO' - wandering homeless/runaway/willful anti-social humans that do not/will not live in a structured homestead environment Rolling Eyes   We just can't force humans to live in the type of habitats that 'WE' think that they need too when they have 'FREE WILL' to do as they chose too.

Then there's that ole' they ain't one of us so that doesn't make them OUR PROBLEM; lovely - just F'n lovely No   When we can/should help even one human with a hand up - an opportunity to escape their horrid war zone/tribal warring faction region ...a few would rather we 'DO NOTHING BECAUSE IT'S EASIER' then to do something that may be hard but it's the right thing!  WOW, now that type of narrow minded human kindness just makes me shudder; cause when the chips were down and jolly ole' England needed the world's help {the warring powers to sustain your problems} didn't we do all that we could to rush to your aide? Suspect
How soon you forget what those years were like ...hmmm Rolling Eyes



Same points to you

Which is a fine example of left wing inequality

If you let the refugees in without housing and solving then problem of homelessness, then you are rendering them as secondary to the refugees themselves.

So by your views above you actually are in agreement with Victor that before the nation accepts any refugees they should solve the problem of the homeless first then?

So we come full circle in the point here.

I on the other hand want to help people who want to become a part of or nation.

What nobody is asking is those who it may well effect of certain people coming here who hold views that treat them with prejudice.

Ie women, LGTB, religious minorities ect

By bringing people who's views are in conflict with the well being and equality of the above people. Is going to have an adverse effect, creating a further rise in bigotry all round. Sadly to the genuine refugees that want to make a life here and by refugees that come here intent on discriminating against others with no intent to integrate.
There needs to be a far better wany to check people entering the country but of those homeless, they are being constantly discarded for refugees to take precedence

That is inequality

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:37 pm

but it is noticeable that "labour" did NOT reverse the council house sell off (and they could have done....)

but continued to gleefully sell off the familiy silver...

and there is no evidence of any intent to do anything whatsoever beyond a few vague promises


"for a pocket ful of mumbles, such are promises"


as for America...wow...how generous they are

.19% of GNI (gross national income), spent of foreign aid

britain .45% in 2014 up to .71% in 2015......


I suggest you dont lecture US quill...

The FIRST priority of ANY govt....should be the health safety and welfare of its own people (and those others resident either permanently of temporarily). The ordinary means of the nation should be managed so as to sustain the less fortunate of that nation...it should NOT require extraordinary "effort" by the citizens (i.e. effort beyond the normal payment of ones "dues") to deal with what is in effect the "ordinary consequence" of "extraordinary carelessness" by govt

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:45 pm

Your #1 consistent mantra for any of these discussions has been: your assumptions that all of the refugees are coming in here with 'AN AGENDA' and then you go off on some tangent about what you've perceived as your proof from the little information you've garnered.  Rolling Eyes
OR THIS GEM >
So, we {these many nations} should never do anything to help any nation because we have some 'homeless numbers among our census' - that's your mantra?  Well, that's your OPINION and that's not a process or a gauge of reasoning that this country - the USA has every done as I/Ben/Quill have provided you with facts & data numerous times these many months that we discuss this issue.
We welcome the allotted number of refugee's that our Government tells us we MUST DO.  GWB was over the top with his Ethiopian quota monthly and it was a deep burden for Michigan.  Bad planning - bad idea but I wasn't asked!
The USA has had set quota's before WWI for immigration limitations and in none of those that came into our country were ever asked to answer a litmus test: loyalty/how much so you want to Jihad an American/terrorize our country ...we just welcomed them - quarantined them for set number of weeks if they appeared ill ...
Irish/Polish/Chinese/Vietnamese/Japanese/German/Jews/English/Mexican/Iranian/Iraq'/Pakistan/Egyptian/Israel/Turkey/Greece etc., etc., etc. ...

Now your irrational fear about terrorist has put that to the forefront of your 'boogyman gonna get you worries' and it's eating you up ~~~ seems like that's something 'YOU' must learn to deal with; not something that the ratio of incoming refugee's have on their minds other than food/shelter/safe haven and their children!

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:47 pm

4EVER2 wrote:Your #1 consistent mantra for any of these discussions has been: your assumptions that all of the refugees are coming in here with 'AN AGENDA' and then you go off on some tangent about what you've perceived as your proof from the little information you've garnered.  Rolling Eyes
OR THIS GEM >
So, we {these many nations} should never do anything to help any nation because we have some 'homeless numbers among our census' - that's your mantra?  Well, that's your OPINION and that's not a process or a gauge of reasoning that this country - the USA has every done as I/Ben/Quill have provided you with facts & data numerous times these many months that we discuss this issue.
We welcome the allotted number of refugee's that our Government tells us we MUST DO.  GWB was over the top with his Ethiopian quota monthly and it was a deep burden for Michigan.  Bad planning - bad idea but I wasn't asked!
The USA has had set quota's before WWI for immigration limitations and in none of those that came into our country were ever asked to answer a litmus test: loyalty/how much so you want to Jihad an American/terrorize our country ...we just welcomed them - quarantined them for set number of weeks if they appeared ill ...
Irish/Polish/Chinese/Vietnamese/Japanese/German/Jews/English/Mexican/Iranian/Iraq'/Pakistan/Egyptian/Israel/Turkey/Greece etc., etc., etc. ...

Now your irrational fear about terrorist has put that to the forefront of your 'boogyman gonna get you worries' and it's eating you up ~~~ seems like that's something 'YOU' must learn to deal with; not something that the ratio of incoming refugee's have on their minds other than food/shelter/safe haven and their children!



i am well aware what you think of me]
Now answer my points which you did everything to avoid talking about


Which is a fine example of left wing inequality

If you let the refugees in without housing and solving then problem of homelessness, then you are rendering them as secondary to the refugees themselves.

So by your views above you actually are in agreement with Victor that before the nation accepts any refugees they should solve the problem of the homeless first then?

So we come full circle in the point here.

I on the other hand want to help people who want to become a part of or nation.

What nobody is asking is those who it may well effect of certain people coming here who hold views that treat them with prejudice.

Ie women, LGTB, religious minorities ect

By bringing people who's views are in conflict with the well being and equality of the above people. Is going to have an adverse effect, creating a further rise in bigotry all round. Sadly to the genuine refugees that want to make a life here and by refugees that come here intent on discriminating against others with no intent to integrate.
There needs to be a far better wany to check people entering the country but of those homeless, they are being constantly discarded for refugees to take precedence

That is inequality

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:50 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:of course there is the other minor point, totally overlooked by the left mindset.....
no doubt these refugees will be comfortably housed, provided with free medical care (for how long) etc etc etc etc ....
yet your own out of luck homeless, those dieing from lack of medical aid etc .......
will be left even more unlikely to get any aid...."our budget is overstretched"
hard luck bud...you are a "native" ...you can go starve....Imposed this time NOT by an invader...but by their own..
civil war anyone?

And your answer is.....

That's the trouble with the right mindset...never a complete answer.  Criticism yes...answer no.  Leave it to the abyss of nothingness.

If you're concerned about the homeless, have a go at the problem.  Get your hands dirty.  Don't be one of those cap-doffers who is late for tea.  What you really mean is you like a quick quip, but not the responsibility to go along with it.
SMH ...anytime anyone drudges up the 'what about all of those homeless that you've got laying about without proper housing'; I would ask you to be aware that we have a culture of 'HOBO' - wandering homeless/runaway/willful anti-social humans that do not/will not live in a structured homestead environment Rolling Eyes   We just can't force humans to live in the type of habitats that 'WE' think that they need too when they have 'FREE WILL' to do as they chose too.

So what....how is that germane to teh argument? We too have a small but non the less present population of "professional tramps" (and a fair number of so called "new age travellers" wich are a bit like tramps , but like cats shit in your garden and dont bury it )


Then there's that ole' they ain't one of us so that doesn't make them OUR PROBLEM; lovely - just F'n lovely No   When we can/should help even one human with a hand up - an opportunity to escape their horrid war zone/tribal warring faction region ...a few would rather we 'DO NOTHING BECAUSE IT'S EASIER' then to do something that may be hard but it's the right thing!  WOW, now that type of narrow minded human kindness just makes me shudder; cause when the chips were down and jolly ole' England needed the world's help {the warring powers to sustain your problems} didn't we do all that we could to rush to your aide? Suspect
How soon you forget what those years were like ...hmmm Rolling Eyes

Well I suppose I could call down all sorts of invective pertaining to how illogical that last bit is ....but I wont....

I will just point out its nonsense and a deflection

to be comparable ...before becomming involved with the war you (and the other nations) too would have to have been involved in a seperate war that was consuming your entire attention...

here we have a situation where there is an existing and severe problem with homelessness in our OWN (regardless of "ethnicity") population

what part of "sort that out first" dont you get....

what part of not sorting it out will only feed the R/W bottom feeders even though actually they dont give a toss about the less well off and down on their luck folks???, dont you get?


IF there is housing "suddenly available" for 5 thousand 10 thousand refugees.....why is there nothing available for 5 thousand of our own homeless....?



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There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:14 pm

Didge stated > So we come full circle in the point here.
I on the other hand want to help people who want to become a part of or nation.
What nobody is asking is those who it may well effect of certain people coming here who hold views that treat them with prejudice.
And as you just keep parroting the same bilge;
By what standard do you process that "who hold view that treat them with prejudice" - "want people who want to become part of your nation"

For example: you'd expect the membership to leave 'YOU' in charge of the 'refugee vetting committee' confused
That according to your 'MORAL CODE' and social skills you'd have the master plan for handling the selection process that would be needed {according to your master plan} ...seriously Didge - this isn't how even your social process works or would you measure up to the criteria if someone else was setting the 'Morality Bar?' 
Your irrational FEAR of the bad personalities you've read about seem to be the pervasive gauge by which you quantify the entire Islamic/Muslim/refugee situation.  And that's a sad thing; fear makes people angry and paranoid and it will prevent you from learning about other cultures as well.

BTW - you really have zero clue about my thoughts towards you; but any time I try - your pit-bull attacking closes the conversation down. Wink

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:23 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Didge stated > So we come full circle in the point here.
I on the other hand want to help people who want to become a part of or nation.
What nobody is asking is those who it may well effect of certain people coming here who hold views that treat them with prejudice.
And as you just keep parroting the same bilge;
By what standard do you process that "who hold view that treat them with prejudice" - "want people who want to become part of your nation"

For example: you'd expect the membership to leave 'YOU' in charge of the 'refugee vetting committee' confused
That according to your 'MORAL CODE' and social skills you'd have the master plan for handling the selection process that would be needed {according to your master plan} ...seriously Didge - this isn't how even your social process works or would you measure up to the criteria if someone else was setting the 'Morality Bar?' 
Your irrational FEAR of the bad personalities you've read about seem to be the pervasive gauge by which you quantify the entire Islamic/Muslim/refugee situation.  And that's a sad thing; fear makes people angry and paranoid and it will prevent you from learning about other cultures as well.

BTW - you really have zero clue about my thoughts towards you; but any time I try - your pit-bull attacking closes the conversation down. Wink


So just about inventing things I never even stated

I am all fort allowing refugees into this country.

You just did the lefty motto, with a new twist

Invent lies not stated, deflect, divert and cover up.

I have stated better checks should be made, as we should not be allowing for example islamists, far right extremists, murders, Paedo's etc into this country. That is called common sense.
The reality is, we have seen a rise in hate crimes, against women, the LGTB, Jews etc
The point is, are we casting to one side, those who will be effected by some who come here with no intent to become a part of a progressive society.

Now the point on the homeless is valid.
If you allow refugees in who are also homeless and house them over the homeless already here, then that is inequality.
What you are saying. is their need is more pressing to that of people who have been on the streets in some cases for years homeless.
That is wrong on every level. So with Quill and yourself you fail to see this and a balance needs to be addressed here, as both should be housed. You see you have no idea of my views and I am all for helping genuine refugees that want to come here.
If they are islamists, well there certainly is a number of islamic countries to chose from where they were certainly find more to their likeing and custims, beliefs etc and away from the country they fled from. Yes i do want people who come here to integrate and be a part of this naton. As people who come here and treat people who live here with prejudice is going again to have a domino effect. it creates a rise in the far right with hate against them, with also many innocent Muslims being lumped along with them and a rise in hate by these islamists towards the groups I have stated. The same if far right refugees come here. This will create a rise if left wing hate against them and hate from them to ethnic minorities.


You still failed to answer my points

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Let the Arab league look after the Syrians and the African league look after the kenyans.


Still no answer as to why this should not be happening...

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Re: Syrian - Kenya Refugees Coming To Montana; Can This Be A Good Thing?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:47 am


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