Black Racism- Or Is It?

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Ben Reilly on Mon May 02, 2016 11:03 am

Of course it's racist, surprised you even had to ask.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 11:09 am

Hundreds of well-wishers donate £2,000 to waitress who was refused a tip by 'racist' black Oxford student because she was white
Ashleigh Schultz, 24, reduced to tears when Ntokozo Qwabe refused to tip
The student wrote on cafe bill: ‘We will give tip when you return the land’
He then bragged online that they had made her cry ‘typical white tears’
Online campaigns to ‘tip the waitress’ have had pledges topping £2,000
By SAM GREENHILL FOR THE DAILY MAIL


Yep. It's racist. The guy was a complete twat.
No one has ever claimed racism doesn't work both ways, except Quill.

But it does work both ways.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 11:12 am

South African Mr Qwabe is a Rhodes scholar at Oxford University, meaning he receives money from the Rhodes estate to study.

Maybe it's time he showed some gratitude then. What an absolute tosser.

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 11:25 am

According to his Facebook page he's still at Oxford, and according to this article he's threatened to harass white people. If he tries that kind of thing in any restaurants, pubs, or cafes in Oxford, I do hope that the management will ban him from their premises, and report him to the police - we do not allow racial harassment in this country.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/we-give-tip-when-you-return-the-land-2016063
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 11:41 am


Ntokozo Qwabe bragged online that they had made her cry ‘typical white tears’, leaving him ‘unable to stop smiling because something so black and wonderful had happened’



That's worrying.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 11:44 am

eddie wrote:
Ntokozo Qwabe bragged online that they had made her cry ‘typical white tears’, leaving him ‘unable to stop smiling because something so black and wonderful had happened’



That's worrying.

The "white tears" thing is a expression used by black people in certain quarters. Using it to justify the harassment and bullying of a waitress is perhaps a new development though.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 11:47 am

Well she's done okay out of it by going public; well-wishers have donated £2000.
Looks like she had the last laugh.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 11:50 am

eddie wrote:Well she's done okay out of it by going public; well-wishers have donated £2000.
Looks like she had the last laugh.

I'm not worried about her - anyone with any decency would back her anyway. I hope that Oxford University really tells these "activists" where to go on the grounds that they can't really object to a "racist" statue when they display blatant racism themselves.


Last edited by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 1:20 pm

What do you mean storm?
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 02, 2016 5:11 pm

eddie wrote:Hundreds of well-wishers donate £2,000 to waitress who was refused a tip by 'racist' black Oxford student because she was white
Ashleigh Schultz, 24, reduced to tears when Ntokozo Qwabe refused to tip
The student wrote on cafe bill: ‘We will give tip when you return the land’
He then bragged online that they had made her cry ‘typical white tears’
Online campaigns to ‘tip the waitress’ have had pledges topping £2,000
By SAM GREENHILL FOR THE DAILY MAIL


Yep. It's racist. The guy was a complete twat.
No one has ever claimed racism doesn't work both ways, except Quill.

But it does work both ways.

I'm still stuck on "...return the land."  In Oxford, England?  Must be a Celtic protest...bastard Saxons.

Oh, I see. This happened in S. Africa. Who owns that land nowadays? Whose in charge?

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 5:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Hundreds of well-wishers donate £2,000 to waitress who was refused a tip by 'racist' black Oxford student because she was white
Ashleigh Schultz, 24, reduced to tears when Ntokozo Qwabe refused to tip
The student wrote on cafe bill: ‘We will give tip when you return the land’
He then bragged online that they had made her cry ‘typical white tears’
Online campaigns to ‘tip the waitress’ have had pledges topping £2,000
By SAM GREENHILL FOR THE DAILY MAIL


Yep. It's racist. The guy was a complete twat.
No one has ever claimed racism doesn't work both ways, except Quill.

But it does work both ways.

I'm still stuck on "...return the land."  In Oxford, England?  Must be a Celtic protest...bastard Saxons.

Oh, I see.  This happened in S. Africa.  Who owns that land nowadays?  Whose in charge?

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 6:34 pm

Quill: So you didn't really have an answer apart from some waffle about SA? Rolling Eyes
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Mon May 02, 2016 6:46 pm

Yes...racist, and a nasty arsehole as well.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 6:52 pm

I think he's really sabotaged his own efforts to appear like a "hero" re this Rhodes statue thing. He's been pretty mouthy about the Rhodes statue in Oxford, and now he's exposed himself as a hypocritical racist bully. That can only be a good thing.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 02, 2016 7:01 pm

eddie wrote:Quill: So you didn't really have an answer apart from some waffle about SA? Rolling Eyes

Was I supposed to say something heavy? Laughing  All the while I'm thinking, where's the land? Razz

Obviously, like Ben, I'm not very sympathetic. It wasn't a very pithy thing.


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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 7:01 pm

Ben said it was racist.
Do you think it's racist?

And what's Ben's opnion got to do with it?
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 02, 2016 7:08 pm

eddie wrote:Ben said it was racist.
Do you think it's racist?

And what's Ben's opnion got to do with it?

My comment, perhaps unconsciously, was along the theme (at least) of Ben's comment.  I mean, I still had his comment in mind.

I don't know if the Qwabe was racist in his retort, but it was certainly rhetorical along racial lines.  The guy's head is inside a political argument, which is adverse to a racial issue.  Perhaps he is opposing racism.


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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 7:10 pm

You think it was fair to do that to a waitress? His argument isn't with her, is it?

I do get the feeling you'd be typing something different if it was the other way round.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Mon May 02, 2016 7:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Ben said it was racist.
Do you think it's racist?

And what's Ben's opnion got to do with it?

My comment, perhaps unconsciously, was along the theme (at least) of Ben's comment.  I mean, I still had his comment in mind.

I don't know if the OP was racist, but it was certainly rhetorical along racial lines.  The guy's head is inside a political argument, which is adverse to a racial issue.  Perhaps he is opposing racism.

Opposing racism by being a racist twit himself....Ahhhh...the old double bluff. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 02, 2016 7:15 pm

eddie wrote:You think it was fair to do that to a waitress? His argument isn't with her, is it?

I do get the feeling you'd be typing something different if it was the other way round.

Well, that's what you get when you try to put words in someone else's mouth. You're so anxious to make a point in argument that you don't stop to listen.

I think his reference was to 'white people' so yes, I do think Qwabe believes it was fair to do that to a white person. Apparently, in his mind white people are his target.

What I believe is inconsequential.

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 02, 2016 7:17 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

My comment, perhaps unconsciously, was along the theme (at least) of Ben's comment.  I mean, I still had his comment in mind.

I don't know if the OP was racist, but it was certainly rhetorical along racial lines.  The guy's head is inside a political argument, which is adverse to a racial issue.  Perhaps he is opposing racism.

Opposing racism by being a racist twit himself....Ahhhh...the old double bluff.  Rolling Eyes

Yes, we all have opinions. If you parse it enough, at some point it all becomes ourselves talking to ourselves. In order to communicate, you have got to be talking to someone else.

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon May 02, 2016 7:19 pm

eddie wrote:

Quill: So you didn't really have an answer apart from some waffle about SA? Rolling Eyes


scratch

DRUNK again, eddie ???
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Mon May 02, 2016 7:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Opposing racism by being a racist twit himself....Ahhhh...the old double bluff.  Rolling Eyes

Yes, we all have opinions.  If you parse it enough, at some point it all becomes ourselves talking to ourselves.  In order to communicate, you have got to be talking to someone else.
He isn't talking to himself though...he is bragging about it online.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 7:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:You think it was fair to do that to a waitress? His argument isn't with her, is it?

I do get the feeling you'd be typing something different if it was the other way round.

Well, that's what you get when you try to put words in someone else's mouth.  You're so anxious to make a point in argument that you don't stop to listen.

I think his reference was to 'white people' so yes, I do think Qwabe believes it was fair to do that to a white person.  Apparently, in his mind white people are his target.

What I believe is inconsequential.

If he tries to harass white people in the UK, he should be thrown out and banned from this country.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 7:50 pm

I only wanted to know what you thought quill.
I know what the ignorant nasty twat in the OP thought.
He racially abused the waitress for something that wasn't her fault.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 7:55 pm

eddie wrote:I only wanted to know what you thought quill.
I know what the ignorant nasty twat in the OP thought.
He racially abused the waitress for something that wasn't her fault.

On another forum which I read sometimes there are loads of black people applauding this racist bully - mostly Americans. I hope they're all banned from this country for inciting racial hatred. Razz
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Mon May 02, 2016 8:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:I only wanted to know what you thought quill.
I know what the ignorant nasty twat in the OP thought.
He racially abused the waitress for something that wasn't her fault.

On another forum which I read sometimes there are loads of black people applauding this racist bully - mostly Americans. I hope they're all banned from this country for inciting racial hatred. Razz

People are entitled to their opinions, it's a free country and all that, but I get the hump when people excuse this kind of behaviour.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

On another forum which I read sometimes there are loads of black people applauding this racist bully - mostly Americans. I hope they're all banned from this country for inciting racial hatred. Razz

People are entitled to their opinions, it's a free country and all that, but I get the hump when people excuse this kind of behaviour.

There's some real racist stuff going down there though.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Cass on Mon May 02, 2016 8:08 pm

What an asshat.

Glad she got what she did.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon May 02, 2016 11:53 pm

guy is racist asshole

treat people as individuals for the content of the charater, not the color of their skin.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon May 02, 2016 11:59 pm

SEND HIM HOME...IMMEDIATELY

simples......
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Guest on Tue May 03, 2016 1:11 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
On another forum which I read sometimes there are loads of black people applauding this racist bully - mostly Americans. I hope they're all banned from this country for inciting racial hatred. Razz
People are entitled to their opinions, it's a free country and all that, but I get the hump when people excuse this kind of behaviour.
Didn't your own English political process go through the 'MOTIONS' about the vapid Donald Trump and whether or not he should be banned from entering the UK for all of his quoted: racist POV's ...and the British just chatted about it for barely a ¾ of an hour - broke for lunch and left the issue to die for lack of a vote??? 

I don't see the English 'BANNING' anyone for their racial hatred POV... Suspect

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Tue May 03, 2016 5:45 pm

I only wanted to know what you thought quill.
eddie wrote:I know what the ignorant nasty twat in the OP thought.
He racially abused the waitress for something that wasn't her fault.

Well, you were/are simply being judgmental. Your approach only calls for a few adjectives (“ignorant nasty twat”) and a quick conclusion.

I was refusing to go along those lines. I was thinking along the lines of what motivated him, and was there more than simplistic judgments(?).

If you merely wanted to call him an asshole--a single word, you see--why start a whole thread around it?

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Tue May 03, 2016 7:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:I only wanted to know what you thought quill.
eddie wrote:I know what the ignorant nasty twat in the OP thought.
He racially abused the waitress for something that wasn't her fault.

Well, you were/are simply being judgmental.  Your approach only calls for a few adjectives (“ignorant nasty twat”) and a quick conclusion.

I was refusing to go along those lines.  I was thinking along the lines of what motivated him, and was there more than simplistic judgments(?).

If you merely wanted to call him an asshole--a single word, you see--why start a whole thread around it?

Could it not simply be racial hatred for white people that motivated him? It sounds like it to me.
Had a white person boasted about upsetting a black person, making them cry "typical black tears"....would you consider that a racist comment Quill?
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Tue May 03, 2016 7:10 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I only wanted to know what you thought quill.


Well, you were/are simply being judgmental.  Your approach only calls for a few adjectives (“ignorant nasty twat”) and a quick conclusion.

I was refusing to go along those lines.  I was thinking along the lines of what motivated him, and was there more than simplistic judgments(?).

If you merely wanted to call him an asshole--a single word, you see--why start a whole thread around it?

Could it not simply be racial hatred for white people that motivated him? It sounds like it to me.
Had a white person boasted about upsetting a black person, making them cry "typical black tears"....would you consider that a racist comment Quill?

That leaves too many unanswered questions.  We in the US are exposed every day to unprovoked racism, and this is not it.  

Here, Qwabe had a cause and a point he was making.  You can judge the point, but not liken it to unprovoked racism.  That's what I mean about delving into the complexity.  It cannot simply be dismissed as racism.

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue May 03, 2016 7:27 pm

This chap has form though - it's not a one-off. If you google him, you'll see that he's been very vocal about the Rhodes issue for some time, whilst taking money via the Scholarship. He also allegedly wanted the French flag banned from Universities. He's on a mission, and he just blew it by picking on someone who has nothing to do with any of it. He must be really annoyed that his little plan backfired drastically.

It's not just what he said to the girl, it's what he said afterwards on Facebook. He made it very clear that he would target white people generally. Well not in this country he won't - if he ever comes back here.

According to one article, he got banned from Facebook for three days, and now he allegedly claims there's a petition to have his Scholarship revoked - which I would support if I did online petitions. He allegedly claims that "white people" have started a campaign to get him kicked out of Oxford University too.

http://www.viralbru.com/ntokozo-qwabe-banned-facebook-3-days-now-says/

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-law-student-ntokozo-qwabe-calls-for-universities-to-ban-french-flag-after-paris-attacks-a6788206.html
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Tue May 03, 2016 7:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Could it not simply be racial hatred for white people that motivated him? It sounds like it to me.
Had a white person boasted about upsetting a black person, making them cry "typical black tears"....would you consider that a racist comment Quill?

That leaves too many unanswered questions.  We in the US are exposed every day to unprovoked racism, and this is not it.  

Here, Qwabe had a cause and a point he was making.  You can judge the point, but not liken it to unprovoked racism.  That's what I mean about delving into the complexity.  It cannot simply be dismissed as racism.

I imagine many racists have a reason to feel the way they do...be it from decades ago when WW1 and 2 were raging...or simply because the Asian shopkeeper has taken all the white mans corner shop trade ....they have a 'cause' and a 'point'....so does that give them the right to be racist?
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Tue May 03, 2016 7:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:This chap has form though - it's not a one-off. If you google him, you'll see that he's been very vocal about the Rhodes issue for some time, whilst taking money via the Scholarship. He also allegedly wanted the French flag banned from Universities. He's on a mission, and he just blew it by picking on someone who has nothing to do with any of it. He must be really annoyed that his little plan backfired drastically.

It's not just what he said to the girl, it's what he said afterwards on Facebook. He made it very clear that he would target white people generally. Well not in this country he won't - if he ever comes back here.

According to one article, he got banned from Facebook for three days, and now he allegedly claims there's a petition to have his Scholarship revoked - which I would support if I did online petitions. He allegedly claims that "white people" have started a campaign to get him kicked out of Oxford University too.

http://www.viralbru.com/ntokozo-qwabe-banned-facebook-3-days-now-says/

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-law-student-ntokozo-qwabe-calls-for-universities-to-ban-french-flag-after-paris-attacks-a6788206.html

If you find the petition and it's posted...I would happily sign it too.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue May 03, 2016 7:38 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:This chap has form though - it's not a one-off. If you google him, you'll see that he's been very vocal about the Rhodes issue for some time, whilst taking money via the Scholarship. He also allegedly wanted the French flag banned from Universities. He's on a mission, and he just blew it by picking on someone who has nothing to do with any of it. He must be really annoyed that his little plan backfired drastically.

It's not just what he said to the girl, it's what he said afterwards on Facebook. He made it very clear that he would target white people generally. Well not in this country he won't - if he ever comes back here.

According to one article, he got banned from Facebook for three days, and now he allegedly claims there's a petition to have his Scholarship revoked - which I would support if I did online petitions. He allegedly claims that "white people" have started a campaign to get him kicked out of Oxford University too.

http://www.viralbru.com/ntokozo-qwabe-banned-facebook-3-days-now-says/

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/oxford-law-student-ntokozo-qwabe-calls-for-universities-to-ban-french-flag-after-paris-attacks-a6788206.html

If you find the petition and it's posted...I would happily sign it too.

https://www.change.org/p/oxford-oxford-university-to-revoke-ntokozo-qwabe-s-scholarship-with-immediate-effect

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Tue May 03, 2016 7:43 pm

Ta, x
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Tue May 03, 2016 7:46 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That leaves too many unanswered questions.  We in the US are exposed every day to unprovoked racism, and this is not it.  

Here, Qwabe had a cause and a point he was making.  You can judge the point, but not liken it to unprovoked racism.  That's what I mean about delving into the complexity.  It cannot simply be dismissed as racism.

I imagine many  racists have a reason to feel the way they do...be it from decades ago when WW1 and 2 were raging...or simply because the Asian shopkeeper has taken all the white mans corner shop trade ....they have a 'cause' and a 'point'....so does that give them the right to be racist?

So make your point and discuss. You are putting the cart before the horse when you label them "racists". You just want to jump to your conclusions, and be done with it.

That's not exactly rational thinking.

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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue May 03, 2016 7:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I imagine many  racists have a reason to feel the way they do...be it from decades ago when WW1 and 2 were raging...or simply because the Asian shopkeeper has taken all the white mans corner shop trade ....they have a 'cause' and a 'point'....so does that give them the right to be racist?

So make your point and discuss.  You are putting the cart before the horse when you label them "racists".  You just want to jump to your conclusions, and be done with it.

That's not exactly rational thinking.

What would you call someone who bullied someone because of their race?
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Tue May 03, 2016 7:54 pm

A racist.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue May 03, 2016 7:57 pm

eddie wrote:A racist.

Exactly.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Syl on Tue May 03, 2016 7:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I imagine many  racists have a reason to feel the way they do...be it from decades ago when WW1 and 2 were raging...or simply because the Asian shopkeeper has taken all the white mans corner shop trade ....they have a 'cause' and a 'point'....so does that give them the right to be racist?

So make your point and discuss.  You are putting the cart before the horse when you label them "racists".  You just want to jump to your conclusions, and be done with it.

That's not exactly rational thinking.

I keep getting logged out.

The point is the way he has acted and spoken to the waitress BECAUSE SHE WAS WHITE....makes him a racist.
I think you are over thinking this Quill.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by eddie on Tue May 03, 2016 7:59 pm

Quill doesn't really think black on white racism exists, Syl.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue May 03, 2016 8:01 pm

eddie wrote:Quill doesn't really think black on white racism exists, Syl.

No he doesn't. He thinks that they can't be racist because they have no "power" or something.
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Re: Black Racism- Or Is It?

Post by Original Quill on Tue May 03, 2016 8:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So make your point and discuss.  You are putting the cart before the horse when you label them "racists".  You just want to jump to your conclusions, and be done with it.

That's not exactly rational thinking.

What would you call someone who bullied someone because of their race?

Like I say...in too great a hurry to get to your conclusions.

If I were you I would delve into why he did what he did, and leave framing adjectives like "bullied" out of the analysis, because they merely encourage you to jump too quickly to your conclusion. I would not be in such a hurry to arrive at a conclusion before analyzing.

But it depends on the nature of the game you are playing. If you simply want to call out names, why pretend you are reasoning? Just call out the name and pay no attention to those who want to discuss it further. That's what some have done above...and it plays as well, as it is.

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