Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

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Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:03 am

Omid, 23, dies in Brisbane after setting himself on fire outside refugee centre during a visit by UN officials



Omid, 23, from Iran was a recognised refugee. He set fire to himself during a visit to Nauru by United Nations officials on Wednesday morning.

The wife of a 23-year-old Iranian who died after setting himself alight in protest outside a refugee compound on Nauru has criticised delays in getting him to hospital in Queensland.

Omid was a recognised refugee who was living in Nibok settlement on Nauru with his wife. He set fire to himself during a visit by United Nations officials on Wednesday morning.

Before his death, his wife criticised delays in getting him to hospital in Queensland.

He was taken to the Republic of Nauru hospital before being airlifted out almost a day later, and his wife has questioned the delay, blaming Australian officials for taking too long.

Omid was treated at the Royal Brisbane and Women’s hospital but died on Friday.

His wife told Guardian Australia through an interpreter that once her husband was taken to the Nauru hospital it took two hours for a doctor from International Health and Medical Services to arrive and treat him, and he was unable to be given intravenous pain relief.

“Staff in Nauru hospital couldn’t help Omid in any way because they were unequipped,” she said.

“A lack of proper equipment and facilities was the reason that staff couldn’t help and treat Omid in the Nauru hospital.”
She said he suffered a cardiac arrest during the night, and doctors performed emergency surgery.

The Australian Department of Immigration and Border Protection (DIBP) confirmed Omid’s death and said appropriate support was being provided to his wife and friends.

His death will be referred to the Queensland coroner.

The Nauru government offered condolences to Omid’s family.

“We are providing support to all impacted by this sad event,” it said.

Medical advocacy group Doctors for Refugees have criticised the length of time it took to get Omid out of Nauru and to superior medical care in Brisbane.

“The family in Nauru were told that DIBP was unable to arrange a pilot for the medivac,” co-founder Dr Barri Phatarfod said.

“We understand a flight arrived at 6.30am, some 22 hours after the severe burns and leaving Omid susceptible to life-threatening infection as well.”

“Coming so soon after... revelations of DIBP delays in the tragic case of [Hamid] Kehazaei [who died of a preventable infection in Manus Island detention in 2014], it’s quite incredible that this should happen.”

The Australian immigration minister, Peter Dutton, said on Friday there was no delay in moving Omid.

“The advice that I’ve received is that there was no delay. Obviously people realise that Nauru is 4,500km or so away from Australia. There’s a long distance involved and there were other medical issues – I’m advised – [which] presented as well, which made the decision difficult about the time to airlift this person.

“There are obligations that need to be met in terms of the requirements around pilots and air crew, as I’m advised, particularly given the long distance there, and the long distance back to Australia.”

The minister said people should “rely on the facts” rather than jumping to conclusions. Dutton would not comment on the “other medical issues” which complicated Omid’s transfer.

Asked specifically if Omid could not be moved because there was not a pilot available, he said: “I don’t have any comment. The only other thing I would say is, you’re talking about an air ambulance, this is not a plane that’s sitting on the runway at Nauru. The decision ... was made, very quickly, once the condition of the patient was understood.”
Omid was taken by Careflight from Nauru on Thursday morning, about 22 hours after he self-immolated. It’s not clear when Careflight received the call to attend to Omid.

His wife said doctors in Brisbane told her he was brain dead when he arrived, she said.

She was brought to Brisbane also, and waited in the hospital with him, under guard.

Some friends had spoken to her, she said, attempting to offer comfort before she was stopped from speaking.

“Currently I am in isolation in way that I am not allowed to talk to anyone or do interviews,” she said. “They have taken away my mobile phone so no one can contact me and I am being observed constantly by the officers that are accompanying me.”

Omid’s protest in front of UNHCR officials, who were conducting a monitoring visit, was captured on mobile phone video. The short clip shows him standing in a clearing, soaked in an unknown liquid believed to be accelerant, and yelling.

According to one witness, Omid yelled in protest: “This is how tired we are, this action will prove how exhausted we are. I cannot take it anymore.”

He then set himself alight.

The graphic video of his self-immolation shows a few people nearby, who did not appear to be expecting him to go through with his threat. When he did, they ran and tackled him to the ground, smothering the flames which had engulfed his body. He lay on the ground moaning, with severe burns across his body and head.

A second video shows him in the Nauru hospital, clearly conscious as he paces up and down while screaming – with severe burns apparent to his arms, legs, chest, and back – while distressed family members plead for him to be given assistance and painkillers.

Omid’s wife requested that the graphic videos and images of Omid not be shared or published out of concern for his family. She was able to inform them of his injuries on Thursday.

Within hours of of Omid’s act the Nauru government publicly deemed it a “political protest to coincide with the visit by representatives from UNHCR”.

On Thursday night a vigil was held outside the Brisbane hospital, and detainees on Nauru wore T-shirts bearing Omid’s name while they held their 40th consecutive daily protest.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/apr/29/refugee-who-set-himself-alight-on-nauru-dies-of-injuries-in-hospital?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other



He must have been utterly desperate.

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:28 pm

what did he Suppose would happen???

Given the EXTREME nature of this action, perhaps everyone should be grateful he didnt have access to explosives....
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:32 pm

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You do know what has been going on there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:41 pm

and ...igniting himself, leaving his wife an unprotected widow is somehow going to improve that?

oh well...if you say so.....
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:44 pm

and actually I dont really know whats been "going on over there"

Its half a world away....and Australias doing/problem....

I'm more concerned (such as it is ) with what Merkel is up to which certainly STILL isnt my doing, but some folks seem to think should be my problem...
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:52 pm

I'm struggling to understand something here: he set himself alight....and now his wife is moaning that he died???

That's the bare bones of it, isn't it?
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:57 pm

Guards film sexual abuse of refugees in Nauru detention camp

http://www.trtworld.com/asia/guards-film-sexual-abuse-refugees-nauru-detention-camp-3462


Six-year-old refugee allegedly sexually assaulted on Nauru
Perpetrator, who was caught in the act by the girl’s parents on 29 December, still yet to be arrested or charged





By 30 November, 543 people, including 70 children, remained in the Australian-run centre on Nauru. Approximately 621 refugees were living on temporary visas in the community. The reopening of Australia’s immigration processing centre on Nauru in 2012 led to numerous human rights abuses. In March, an independent report released by the Australian government made recommendations to address ongoing concerns about the safety of women and children in the centre (see Australia entry). The Nauru government stated it was deeply concerned by the findings and would make all resources available to help Australia implement the changes. However, in August a report by the Australian Senate into the abuse allegations stated that the current conditions and circumstances were not adequate, appropriate or safe. Despite key recommendations, Nauru had yet to implement a child protection framework.
In October the Nauru government announced that the centre would be an “open” facility, with those housed there free to come and go. It also announced that the remaining 600 asylum claims would be processed “within a week”. By the end of December processing had still not been completed.
Ongoing reports of violence against refugees in the community raised concerns that Nauru remained ill-equipped to provide the necessary safeguards to protect asylum-seekers and to meet the needs of refugees who were settled.
A ban on foreign journalists visiting the island was made explicit in a statement from the Nauru government in October.


https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/nauru/report-nauru/





Nauru refugees 'treated like animals', subjected to 'bride shopping' by guards, social workers say

Desperate and dispirited asylum seekers at the Australian-run detention centre on Nauru formed "suicide pacts", identified themselves as numbers instead of by name, and were treated like animals by some guards, according to accounts by two social workers who worked at the centre.
"There was single adult female.. there was a group of teenage girls, there was a group of fathers, there was a group of mothers," said Natasha Blucher, a case worker who personally signed 10 reports alerting centre management to the pacts.
Ms Blucher and another former social worker, Michelle Groeneveld, were among 10 Save the Children staff ordered to leave Nauru last October when former immigration minister Scott Morrison claimed they encouraged refugees to self-harm.
A Government review dismissed the claims, but none of the workers at the centre of the storm has spoken publicly until now.
Ms Blucher said she often clashed with guards about the practice of identifying inmates as numbers.
"Most of the time it wasn't toxic but then sometimes ... I would challenge them on things that they were doing or ask them to stop treating people with disrespect or ask them to stop referring to people by their boat IDs," she said.
Ms Blucher said she believes the practice demoralised and degraded people: "So, something that people would constantly say is, 'they think we're animals, they're treating us like animals'."
Sinister stories have already emerged about the sexual exploitation of inmates by guards.

Ms Blucher described an atmosphere where local Nauruan staff saw the camp as a showcase for bride shopping.
"They would say things like, 'hey baby, come and sit on my knee'," she said.
"They would peer into their tents, they were trying to set it up for when they got outside and they could have a relationship, and the women found that very, very threatening."
Ms Groeneveld argues the Australian Government was deliberately cruel and did not meet needs on purpose.
"It's very obvious in that environment that the Government do not want to give any comfort or make anything comfortable at all," she said.

Social workers were constantly reporting abuse

By late last September, as some asylum seekers on Nauru were planning to kill themselves, the Government decided to sack some Save the Children case workers.
In leaked documents, one official described the public sacking of staff as a "circuit breaker".
I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
Ms Blucher has come to see the dismissal as an act of intimidation.

Ms Blucher has come to see the dismissal as an act of intimidation.
"I was just constantly challenging when I felt that people were not being respected or that where somebody's safety was at risk," she said.
Ms Groeneveld had a similar view.
"I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence — a boiling pot of despair," she said.
"We were constantly reporting inappropriate behaviour of guards towards children."
The Senate inquiry into allegations over Nauru received a submission from Wilson Security, denying wrongdoing.
Ms Blucher believed Australia's detention camp on Nauru had become the bitter harvest of successive governments — intentionally cruel to force asylum seekers to give up their claims.
"Even if it works to stop the boats, it's not worth it," she said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-29/desperate-nauru-refugees-formed-'suicide-pacts':-social-worker/6581906

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:58 pm

Lord Foul wrote:and ...igniting himself, leaving his wife an unprotected widow is somehow going to improve that?

oh well...if you say so.....

Didn't two others try to the same? Like those two who attempted to 'hang' themselves but when you saw the photos that were unpixilated they were actually hanging on to the bits of fabric with their hands and one of them was giggling? This idiot probably thought a bit of lighter fuel wouldn't harm him enough to kill him but would do enough damage to make a point. What people don't realise is that burns create dehydration and shock and that's what kills you. You can be burnt only a small amount and still die through the development of sepsis.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:59 pm

eddie wrote:I'm struggling to understand something here: he set himself alight....and now his wife is moaning that he died???

That's the bare bones of it, isn't it?

The conditions there are so terrible and the treatment so vile, he did it in desperation.   What she is saying is they didn't try to help him afterwards.

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:00 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:and ...igniting himself, leaving his wife an unprotected widow is somehow going to improve that?

oh well...if you say so.....

Didn't two others try to the same?   Like those two who attempted to 'hang' themselves but when you saw the photos that were unpixilated they were actually hanging on to the bits of fabric with their hands and one of them was giggling? This idiot probably thought a bit of lighter fuel wouldn't harm him enough to kill him but would do enough damage to make a point.  What people don't realise is that burns create dehydration and shock and that's what kills you.   You can be burnt only a small amount and still die through the development of sepsis.


Good grief, you lot don't have a clue what has been going on do you.

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:03 pm

sassy wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Didn't two others try to the same?   Like those two who attempted to 'hang' themselves but when you saw the photos that were unpixilated they were actually hanging on to the bits of fabric with their hands and one of them was giggling? This idiot probably thought a bit of lighter fuel wouldn't harm him enough to kill him but would do enough damage to make a point.  What people don't realise is that burns create dehydration and shock and that's what kills you.   You can be burnt only a small amount and still die through the development of sepsis.


Good grief, you lot don't have a clue what has been going on do you.

Seems to me the medics did what they could. Are you saying he was deliberately neglected after he chose to immolate himself?
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Syl on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:07 pm

sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:I'm struggling to understand something here: he set himself alight....and now his wife is moaning that he died???

That's the bare bones of it, isn't it?

The conditions there are so terrible and the treatment so vile, he did it in desperation.   What she is saying is they didn't try to help him afterwards.

I think anyone desperate enough to commit suicide in such a horrendous way deserves sympathy....no matter what their cause is.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:09 pm

Sassy I understand that this man bravely (?) did this to prove a valid point and was obviously desperate - I get it.

But if you set fire to yourself and die, what do you expect??
Well nothing, cos you're dead.

It's a hard to call him stupid because what he did, he did for valid and true reasons, but it was still stupid and carried a very high risk of severe to fatal, harm.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:17 pm

sassy wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Didn't two others try to the same?   Like those two who attempted to 'hang' themselves but when you saw the photos that were unpixilated they were actually hanging on to the bits of fabric with their hands and one of them was giggling? This idiot probably thought a bit of lighter fuel wouldn't harm him enough to kill him but would do enough damage to make a point.  What people don't realise is that burns create dehydration and shock and that's what kills you.   You can be burnt only a small amount and still die through the development of sepsis.


Good grief, you lot don't have a clue what has been going on do you.

Yes, I do. yes, that place sounds awful. I still don't believe this guy intended to kill himself. And I think he was very stupid to do so, leaving his poor wife to carry on and pick up the pieces.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:18 pm

as ever the question is motive

did he do it becasue he wanted to "escape" becasue te conditions were so terrible...?

OR more likely did he do it to "make a point"


one is desperation ...

the other is just plain old dumb ass.....
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:18 pm

Syl wrote:
sassy wrote:

The conditions there are so terrible and the treatment so vile, he did it in desperation.   What she is saying is they didn't try to help him afterwards.

I think anyone desperate enough to commit suicide in such a horrendous way deserves sympathy....no matter what their cause is.

I don't. I feel more for his wife and family. Those poor people have to live with what he did forever. I'd never get over that if I were her. He was deluded and selfish.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:20 pm

he looks...well fed...

well clothed

is that his car behind him?

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:22 pm

Lord Foul wrote:as ever the question is motive

did he do it becasue he wanted to "escape"  becasue te conditions were so terrible...?

OR more likely did he do it to "make a point"


one is desperation ...

the other is just plain old dumb ass.....


Did the wife try to stop him? If that were me, I'd be hysterical and begging him not to. I think he was trying to make a point and it killed him where he thought he might just be hurt and look like a martyr for his cause. All very noble in theory but idiotic in execution.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Syl on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:34 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

I think anyone desperate enough to commit suicide in such a horrendous way deserves sympathy....no matter what their cause is.

I don't.  I feel more for his wife and family.  Those poor people have to live with what he did forever.  I'd never get over that if I were her.  He was deluded and selfish.

I don't think people who kill themselves are knowingly selfish. If they were in their right mind they may be, but for someone to commit such an act, desperation, grief, something has drove them to it.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:37 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

I think anyone desperate enough to commit suicide in such a horrendous way deserves sympathy....no matter what their cause is.

I don't.  I feel more for his wife and family.  Those poor people have to live with what he did forever.  I'd never get over that if I were her.  He was deluded and selfish.

I don't think people who kill themselves are knowingly  selfish. If they were in their right mind they may be, but for someone to commit such an act, desperation, grief, something has drove them to it.

allahu akbar ???
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:38 pm

though generally they do that before detonating
rather than merely igniting......
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Miffs2 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:46 pm

Oh god how awful for the poor people that had to witness that.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:01 pm

Thank you Syl and Eddie for being actual human beings.  As for rest, well ...

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:05 pm

sassy wrote:Guards film sexual abuse of refugees in Nauru detention camp
http://www.trtworld.com/asia/guards-film-sexual-abuse-refugees-nauru-detention-camp-3462

Six-year-old refugee allegedly sexually assaulted on Nauru
Perpetrator, who was caught in the act by the girl’s parents on 29 December, still yet to be arrested or charged
By 30 November, 543 people, including 70 children, remained in the Australian-run centre on Nauru. Approximately 621 refugees were living on temporary visas in the community. The reopening of Australia’s immigration processing centre on Nauru in 2012 led to numerous human rights abuses. In March, an independent report released by the Australian government made recommendations to address ongoing concerns about the safety of women and children in the centre (see Australia entry). The Nauru government stated it was deeply concerned by the findings and would make all resources available to help Australia implement the changes. However, in August a report by the Australian Senate into the abuse allegations stated that the current conditions and circumstances were not adequate, appropriate or safe. Despite key recommendations, Nauru had yet to implement a child protection framework.
In October the Nauru government announced that the centre would be an “open” facility, with those housed there free to come and go. It also announced that the remaining 600 asylum claims would be processed “within a week”. By the end of December processing had still not been completed.
Ongoing reports of violence against refugees in the community raised concerns that Nauru remained ill-equipped to provide the necessary safeguards to protect asylum-seekers and to meet the needs of refugees who were settled.
A ban on foreign journalists visiting the island was made explicit in a statement from the Nauru government in October.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/nauru/report-nauru/
Nauru refugees 'treated like animals', subjected to 'bride shopping' by guards, social workers say

Desperate and dispirited asylum seekers at the Australian-run detention centre on Nauru formed "suicide pacts", identified themselves as numbers instead of by name, and were treated like animals by some guards, according to accounts by two social workers who worked at the centre.
"There was single adult female.. there was a group of teenage girls, there was a group of fathers, there was a group of mothers," said Natasha Blucher, a case worker who personally signed 10 reports alerting centre management to the pacts.
Ms Blucher and another former social worker, Michelle Groeneveld, were among 10 Save the Children staff ordered to leave Nauru last October when former immigration minister Scott Morrison claimed they encouraged refugees to self-harm.
A Government review dismissed the claims, but none of the workers at the centre of the storm has spoken publicly until now.
Ms Blucher said she often clashed with guards about the practice of identifying inmates as numbers.
"Most of the time it wasn't toxic but then sometimes ... I would challenge them on things that they were doing or ask them to stop treating people with disrespect or ask them to stop referring to people by their boat IDs," she said.
Ms Blucher said she believes the practice demoralised and degraded people: "So, something that people would constantly say is, 'they think we're animals, they're treating us like animals'."
Sinister stories have already emerged about the sexual exploitation of inmates by guards.

Ms Blucher described an atmosphere where local Nauruan staff saw the camp as a showcase for bride shopping.
"They would say things like, 'hey baby, come and sit on my knee'," she said.
"They would peer into their tents, they were trying to set it up for when they got outside and they could have a relationship, and the women found that very, very threatening."
Ms Groeneveld argues the Australian Government was deliberately cruel and did not meet needs on purpose.
"It's very obvious in that environment that the Government do not want to give any comfort or make anything comfortable at all," she said.

Social workers were constantly reporting abuse

By late last September, as some asylum seekers on Nauru were planning to kill themselves, the Government decided to sack some Save the Children case workers.
In leaked documents, one official described the public sacking of staff as a "circuit breaker".
I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
Ms Blucher has come to see the dismissal as an act of intimidation.
"I was just constantly challenging when I felt that people were not being respected or that where somebody's safety was at risk," she said.
Ms Groeneveld had a similar view.
"I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence — a boiling pot of despair," she said.
"We were constantly reporting inappropriate behaviour of guards towards children."
The Senate inquiry into allegations over Nauru received a submission from Wilson Security, denying wrongdoing.
Ms Blucher believed Australia's detention camp on Nauru had become the bitter harvest of successive governments — intentionally cruel to force asylum seekers to give up their claims.
"Even if it works to stop the boats, it's not worth it," she said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-29/desperate-nauru-refugees-formed-'suicide-pacts':-social-worker/6581906 
Odd how we look at that young man's image; assume that his photo represents what he looks like right before his awful self-abuse with the fire - we see the auto behind him and assume that it belongs to him - as if it was allowed to be relocated to Australia with the other few possessions that the refugees carried, if it was his and not his parents or some neighbors/friends/family member and he just happened to be standing in front of it Rolling Eyes
What strikes me to the very core about such stories are these displaced humans; have suffered greatly - been torn from their very homes/neighborhoods and land and now live in some foreign country and are being looked upon as some prized procession for their virginal qualities! 
My gender seems to have a value but lack of respect world wide is obvious and shocking and pervasive. And this young man and his wife have made it an issue to speak out and to keep speaking out {anyone else looking at the dates of the articles/links} and now all we can do is make baseless comments about his motives?
WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT US?
Ayn Rand, who famously defends “the virtue of selfishness” in her book of that title, fully recognizes that, in order to act in a rationally selfish way, you must engage with the physical world and other people in it to achieve your values—whether money, love, freedom, self-esteem, or whatever.
In her essay “Causality Versus Duty,” Rand argues that the notion that you can have a “duty”—an unchosen obligation—to do anything is baseless. Proper morality, she argues, involves recognizing and enacting “the process by which an end determines the means; i.e., the process of choosing a goal and taking the actions necessary to achieve it.” Rand goes on to explain the importance of looking outward at the facts of reality, not inward toward some alleged duty, in order to achieve one’s values: “A disciple of causation looks outward, he is value-oriented and action oriented, which means: reality-oriented.” This properly applies to any cause you might join—and the causes you do join should be for the purpose of furthering your own life and happiness.
What is the alternative to Rand’s view of morality? The disciple of duty. A disciple of duty is concerned not with his own life and happiness, but with an alleged greater good.
One famous champion of this approach to morality—a 20th-century political leader—advocated “the common interests before self-interest,” called for a “state of mind which subordinates the interests of the ego to the conservation of the community,” and praised the “individual’s capacity to make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow men.” That leader was Adolf Hitler, who demanded that Germans live for a cause greater than themselves.
Or consider the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The men who hijacked jet planes and flew them into buildings full of people devoted themselves to a cause greater than themselves—the cause of serving Allah by engaging in jihad.
These are just a couple of examples; I’m sure you can think of many more.
The next time someone asks you to live for a “cause greater than yourself,” ask him whether he means a cause that advances your own life and values or a cause that requires you to sacrifice your life-serving values and thus damages your life.
Any cause that calls for you to sacrifice the values that support your life is vicious. Any cause that assists you in achieving the values that support your life is worthy.
We most likely won't ever understand the true 'Disciples' among us mere mortals but I do believe that they exist and they see their path and the reason that they are put here on earth...for whatever reason that young man felt that this humanitarian cause had to have such a horrendous action taken to prove 'HIS SINCERITY' --- well, he certainly has the conversation going now.

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Syl on Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:57 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Syl wrote:

I don't think people who kill themselves are knowingly  selfish. If they were in their right mind they may be, but for someone to commit such an act, desperation, grief, something has drove them to it.

allahu akbar ???

As associated with the chant of terrorists?
This man obviously meant no harm to anyone but himself.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:47 pm

Syl wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

allahu akbar ???

As associated with the chant of terrorists?
This man obviously meant no harm to anyone but himself.

He's harmed his wife.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:35 pm

I thought these refugees were seeking safety, food and shelter...!?


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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I thought these refugees were seeking safety, food and shelter...!?
Ya, not rape, molestation, being treated like a meat locker for the sadistic men --- WTH are they complaining about; good grief!  Rolling Eyes

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 01, 2016 12:08 am

That's what they do wherever they are... more reason to keep them out of civilised society where they would otherwise be inflicted on everyone...
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Sun May 01, 2016 1:19 am

Tommy Monk wrote:That's what they do wherever they are... more reason to keep them out of civilised society where they would otherwise be inflicted on everyone...

And you'd know that for a 'FACT' because???
Geeze, do you speak in anything besides GENERALIZATIONS'?'...never mind, it's a rhetorical question - Suspect
I'm just trying to give you a opportunity to have a seat at the adult table No

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Original Quill on Sun May 01, 2016 3:18 am

4EVER2 wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:That's what they do wherever they are... more reason to keep them out of civilised society where they would otherwise be inflicted on everyone...

And you'd know that for a 'FACT' because???
Geeze, do you speak in anything besides GENERALIZATIONS'?'...never mind, it's a rhetorical question - Suspect
I'm just trying to give you a opportunity to have a seat at the adult table No

OMG...don't do that!  Rolling Eyes   He throws his Cheerios...

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Miffs2 on Sun May 01, 2016 11:17 am

Original Quill wrote:
4EVER2 wrote:

And you'd know that for a 'FACT' because???
Geeze, do you speak in anything besides GENERALIZATIONS'?'...never mind, it's a rhetorical question - Suspect
I'm just trying to give you a opportunity to have a seat at the adult table No

OMG...don't do that!  Rolling Eyes   He throws his Cheerios...

Let's not make this about Tommy having an opinion shall we?
The man chose to set himself on fire, what has he achieved? Fuck all.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Sun May 01, 2016 11:36 am

the problem is things like this and the hunger strikes are very ineffective, Australians don't respond to threats of self harm maybe it is a cultural thing. but we are a bit like "okay then kill ya self dickhead " Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
even as someone that is pro refugee rights and resettlement. I don't think positively about the individuals that use self harm as a form of protest.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Sun May 01, 2016 11:58 am

veya_victaous wrote:the problem is things like this and the hunger strikes are very ineffective, Australians don't respond to threats of self harm maybe it is a cultural thing. but we are a bit like "okay then kill ya self dickhead " Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
even as someone that is pro refugee rights and resettlement. I don't think positively about the individuals that use self harm as a form of protest.

Sadly, that's why this horrific true to life story line has playout the way it did:
many reports went ignored - Save the Children staffers were ignored - then the staffers were replaced when they kept reaching higher up the chain of command to whom they complained until >
I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
and after the years of abuse/neglect and Australia's trying to sweep this entire mess under the rug {suppress it} this couple - with a humanity driven need to do whatever it took --- took the only method that he knew he 'COULD DO' --- and the publicity happened! 
Now will it be a results ENDING waste of his life or a results ENDING policy change for improvements???

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by eddie on Sun May 01, 2016 12:40 pm

veya_victaous wrote:the problem is things like this and the hunger strikes are very ineffective, Australians don't respond to threats of self harm maybe it is a cultural thing. but we are a bit like "okay then kill ya self dickhead " Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
even as someone that is pro refugee rights and resettlement. I don't think positively about the individuals that use self harm as a form of protest.

I have to agree with the Aussies on this
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 01, 2016 12:41 pm

My opinion is valid... someone talked of sexual abuse going on... Who's doing it...?

Yes that's right... the nice refugees are doing It!!!
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Sun May 01, 2016 11:14 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:the problem is things like this and the hunger strikes are very ineffective, Australians don't respond to threats of self harm maybe it is a cultural thing. but we are a bit like "okay then kill ya self dickhead " Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
even as someone that is pro refugee rights and resettlement. I don't think positively about the individuals that use self harm as a form of protest.

Sadly, that's why this horrific true to life story line has playout the way it did:
many reports went ignored - Save the Children staffers were ignored - then the staffers were replaced when they kept reaching higher up the chain of command to whom they complained until >
I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
and after the years of abuse/neglect and Australia's trying to sweep this entire mess under the rug {suppress it} this couple - with a humanity driven need to do whatever it took --- took the only method that he knew he 'COULD DO' --- and the publicity happened! 
Now will it be a results ENDING waste of his life or a results ENDING policy change for improvements???

nup nothing in the papers, here Zero change if anything he set back those that wish to process refugees here on the mainland.
He achieved nothing but negatives he has ensured that his family will not be allowed to resettle in Australia.
made all refugees look incompatable with our way of life and let every RW commentor in the country go as exactly as vic and tommy has and say "I told you these guys were no good". reality is, you wanna kill your self DO NOT Expect any sympathy from an Aussie, cultrally we do not respect martyrs we think the are dumb asses, and don't want people here that praise martyrdom.

None of what you wrote is correct, He has done the EXACT opposite.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Sun May 01, 2016 11:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:My opinion is valid... someone talked of sexual abuse going on... Who's doing it...?

Yes that's right... the nice refugees are doing It!!!

there does seem to be sexual abuse and forced prositution
and it is a combination of the local employed guards and other refugees.
there is definite issues mainly around how long it takes to process them.
creating a situation for this to happen.

the whole policy is shit trying to outsource the gov't responsiblity.
we should just be processing them here, as effienctly as we can.

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Sun May 01, 2016 11:30 pm

None of what you wrote is correct, He has done the EXACT opposite.
Except what I posted was exerts from the specific articles and exact issues that the

I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
Save the Children staffers and the other agencies have been reporting since 2014 and nada has been done about the atrocities and how utterly F'n horrible is that?

SMH...if 'WE' the countries that reach out to those in dire need and tell them to come to our country for protection and safety; then subject them to those listed horrors --- god help us for the evil that we've allowed --- such vile things to be fall upon those looking to 'US' for protection!  Evil or Very Mad  
And if we stand silently by and allow this to continue - then we are no better then those that are actually doing the vile acts of sexual predication! 
Sure this is but a tiny encapsulated safe place - just a small snip of the entire globe...but it still represents what is going on in the world. Think about that - at least for a nanosecond Suspect

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 01, 2016 11:34 pm

Return them to one of the many vast number of safe areas in their home countries... I'm all in favour of helping to fund reception areas for them to be able to integrate back into their communities in an all inclusive and equally beneficial progressively engaging and helpful mutually cohesive constructive and encouragingly valuable productive impact on the wider community etc.


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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by eddie on Sun May 01, 2016 11:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Return them to one of the many vast number of safe areas in their home countries... I'm all in favour of helping to fund reception areas for them to be able to integrate back into their communities in an all inclusive and equally beneficial progressively engaging and helpful mutually cohesive constructive and encouragingly valuable productive impact on the wider community etc.  



So you do see that there are many refugee human beings that are, really and truly, in need of help?
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun May 01, 2016 11:39 pm

No...


All travelling through numerous safe places and with loads of money too for their 'trips'...


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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Mon May 02, 2016 12:51 am

4EVER2 wrote:
None of what you wrote is correct, He has done the EXACT opposite.
Except what I posted was exerts from the specific articles and exact issues that the

I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
Save the Children staffers and the other agencies have been reporting since 2014 and nada has been done about the atrocities and how utterly F'n horrible is that?

SMH...if 'WE' the countries that reach out to those in dire need and tell them to come to our country for protection and safety; then subject them to those listed horrors --- god help us for the evil that we've allowed --- such vile things to be fall upon those looking to 'US' for protection!  Evil or Very Mad  
And if we stand silently by and allow this to continue - then we are no better then those that are actually doing the vile acts of sexual predication! 
Sure this is but a tiny encapsulated safe place - just a small snip of the entire globe...but it still represents what is going on in the world. Think about that - at least for a nanosecond Suspect

the public's perception is simple,
His Action is a Reason to Keep offshore processing.
that is public opinon, he literally did the exact opposite of help his cause.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-29/nauru-refugee-who-set-himself-on-fire-dies/7371112
no mention of even thinking of changing the laws from either major party. this is hardly even a story in Australia.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Mon May 02, 2016 1:21 am

I won't start a 'BASH AUSTRALIA' thread just because this issue tears at my very heart & soul.  
Here in America we still have issues with human trafficking {little children & young girls} - HUMAN TRAFFICING and it's the 21st CENTURY FFS ---   Guess this is an issue 'I' have to walk away from; can't change the world. But it doesn't mean I won't keep wanting to round up and burn the village elders out of their comfy beds!

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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Lord Foul on Mon May 02, 2016 1:23 am

veya_victaous wrote:
4EVER2 wrote:
None of what you wrote is correct, He has done the EXACT opposite.
Except what I posted was exerts from the specific articles and exact issues that the

I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
Save the Children staffers and the other agencies have been reporting since 2014 and nada has been done about the atrocities and how utterly F'n horrible is that?

SMH...if 'WE' the countries that reach out to those in dire need and tell them to come to our country for protection and safety; then subject them to those listed horrors --- god help us for the evil that we've allowed --- such vile things to be fall upon those looking to 'US' for protection!  Evil or Very Mad  
And if we stand silently by and allow this to continue - then we are no better then those that are actually doing the vile acts of sexual predication! 
Sure this is but a tiny encapsulated safe place - just a small snip of the entire globe...but it still represents what is going on in the world. Think about that - at least for a nanosecond Suspect

the public's perception is simple,
His Action is a Reason to Keep offshore processing.
that is public opinon, he literally did the exact opposite of help his cause.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-29/nauru-refugee-who-set-himself-on-fire-dies/7371112
no mention of even thinking of changing the laws from either major party. this is hardly even a story in Australia.


not my tribe ??? VEYA????
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Mon May 02, 2016 1:38 am

the real issue is this guy was not legit in the first place, that is why he was there for 3 years and Why the UNHCR rejected him causing him to do this.
he damaged the claims of all the legit ones with his selfishness. his actions has set back the chances of getting onshore porcessing back as the default, neither major party will support it now.

And he has made it so thet WE CANNOT allow his relatives to settle here now at all, as it would encourage others to martyrdom. Even I 100% support the fact His wife and kids can never be aussie now, because it will look like they got it through his actions. the reason why offshore processing exists in the first place is to discourage others from taking dangerous illegal sea routes. the gov't will now strengthen the policy of discouragement.

Anyone coming to Australia should understand that Aussies do not respond to martyrdom the way the middle east does, we repsond in the complete opposite with disgust and disrespect to the moron that killed themself.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Mon May 02, 2016 1:43 am

"the real issue, he wasn't legit"...when he and his wife and the Child Welfare Safety Agency had been fighting the abuse and medical neglect since 2014 --- exactly how was that NOT THE REAL ISSUE, VEYA?


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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Mon May 02, 2016 1:58 am

Lord Foul wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
4EVER2 wrote:
None of what you wrote is correct, He has done the EXACT opposite.
Except what I posted was exerts from the specific articles and exact issues that the

I believe we were scapegoated to take the attention away from what was happening in the camp, which is the sexual exploitation of children, abuse, people's human rights not being met, medical negligence - a boiling pot of despair.
Michelle Groeneveld, Save the Children staff
Save the Children staffers and the other agencies have been reporting since 2014 and nada has been done about the atrocities and how utterly F'n horrible is that?

SMH...if 'WE' the countries that reach out to those in dire need and tell them to come to our country for protection and safety; then subject them to those listed horrors --- god help us for the evil that we've allowed --- such vile things to be fall upon those looking to 'US' for protection!  Evil or Very Mad  
And if we stand silently by and allow this to continue - then we are no better then those that are actually doing the vile acts of sexual predication! 
Sure this is but a tiny encapsulated safe place - just a small snip of the entire globe...but it still represents what is going on in the world. Think about that - at least for a nanosecond Suspect

the public's perception is simple,
His Action is a Reason to Keep offshore processing.
that is public opinon, he literally did the exact opposite of help his cause.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-29/nauru-refugee-who-set-himself-on-fire-dies/7371112
no mention of even thinking of changing the laws from either major party. this is hardly even a story in Australia.


not my tribe ???  VEYA????

It's not my opinon on processing refugees
my opinon of a dickhead that has set back those campaigning to have better processing of refugees.
and just fact of reality, these protest never go down well that do not promote sympathy in australians. they'd be better of doing some positive community stuff, trying to run a sports team or in anyway trying to make the best of a bad situation, that would get aussie sympathy. the self harm protest is counter productive.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by veya_victaous on Mon May 02, 2016 2:08 am

4EVER2 wrote:"the real issue, he wasn't legit"...when he and his wife and the Child Welfare Safety Agency had been fighting the abuse and medical neglect since 2014 --- exactly how was that NOT THE REAL ISSUE, VEYA?


cause they were there because they were not legit, they came here illegally without a vaild claim to refugee status, they didn't accept that decision and have been in holding while they are processed that they have requested be re-examined by higher and higher ups. At any time Australia would have paid to fly him back to Iran.

Hundreds of legit refugees have arrived and been processed and resettled in that time. HE and his family was not because they are not legitimate refugees. even the UNHCR said so, which was his final chance of going higher up and the meeting he just left so he tried blackmail and failed epically.

this Guys IS NOT the poster child of refugee rights.... he is ammuniton for those that wish to close our boarders.
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Re: Refugee who set himself alight on Nauru dies in hospital

Post by Guest on Mon May 02, 2016 2:36 am

Well, you'd know far more facts about all that then I would Veya and I'll allow you that latitude because I do not have the firmest facts about this issue and you assuredly do.  But it sure seems very bizarre that a mans life would be put to this sort of fate if he was a 'RUBE/POSING' for a hyped up position --- torching oneself is the worst painful way to DIE.

I guess he could have been 'STONED'---that's always plausible too.

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