This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

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This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

A brewing power struggle between Lisa Marie Presley and Scientology leader David Miscavige could inflict crippling harm to the controversial “church.”

The only daughter of rock icon Elvis Presley has been slowly pulling herself away from Scientology, to which she was introduced as a child by her mother, since at least 2008, reported Tony Ortega.

Ortega, who served as executive editor of The Raw Story from 2013 until 2015, said Presley has quietly been orchestrating a damaging media campaign against Miscavige as the church slips further into long decline.

Miscavige’s father, Ron Miscavige, will release a “ruthless” memoir May 3 about his own life as the musical director of the hardcore Sea Org sect and his increasingly strained relationship with his son, and he’ll appear April 29 on a “20/20” episode devoted to Scientology.

His 55-year-old son has headed Scientology since founder L. Ron Hubbard’s death in 1986, and he maintains a close — and, according to sources — strange friendship with actor Tom Cruise, probably the most famous member of the church.

The elder Miscavige escaped — literally — four years ago from the church’s International Base near Hemet, California, and two heavily armed private investigators arrested about three years ago near his new home in Wisconsin told police they had been hired by the Church of Scientology to trail him.

Ron Miscavige decided to write the book after that — but first he called Presley, according to Ortega’s sources.

Presley has been nurturing doubts about Scientology for years, but Ortega reported she decided to leave after speaking with Ron Miscavige and others who had escaped Int Base — known as “The Hole” — where the church officials banish their enemies.

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/something-huge-is-about-to-go-down-with-scientology-that-could-destroy-the-church-once-and-for-all/

I'd love to see this ruthless, exploitative cult brought to the ground! cheers cheers cheers
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:57 pm

So tell what they did and how you managed to get away.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:Then you obviously have knowledge what so ever.

I just said they tried it with me Sassy - which bit of that did you not understand?

Some people are looking for answers, and they are ready to be persuaded to follow a certain course. Then they blame others when it doesn't quite work out the way they wanted it to.

Those people are called "vulnerable" and are easily manipulated.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:46 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I just said they tried it with me Sassy - which bit of that did you not understand?

Some people are looking for answers, and they are ready to be persuaded to follow a certain course. Then they blame others when it doesn't quite work out the way they wanted it to.

Those people are called "vulnerable" and are easily manipulated.

I kind of dislike that word, "vulnerable". It's overused a lot in the press and the courts. Unless someone is mentally ill, they are still responsible for their own decisions. Anyone who gives advice to anyone could be said to be advising a "vulnerable" person.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:55 pm

Well I don't care of its overused, it's still a word and it still very much exists!
You don't have to be mentally ill to be vulnerable.

My mum was, and still is, after 13 years, vulnerable without my dad. That's the exact word she will use to describe how she feels.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:56 pm

eddie wrote:Well I don't care of its overused, it's still a word and it still very much exists!
You don't have to be mentally ill to be vulnerable.

My mum was, and still is, after 13 years, vulnerable without my dad. That's the exact word she will use to describe how she feels.

I didn't say someone had to be mentally ill to be "vulnerable", I said that "vulnerable" people are still responsible for their own actions.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:00 pm

How so? The very fact you are in a "vulnerable" state means you can be expoited.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:02 pm

eddie wrote:How so? The very fact you are in a "vulnerable" state means you can be expoited.

Only if you let it happen.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:03 pm

I shouldn't have to do this for you, of all people rags:

vulnerable
ˈvʌln(ə)rəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: vulnerable
exposed to the possibility of being attacked or harmed, either physically or emotionally.
"we were in a vulnerable position"
synonyms: in danger, in peril, in jeopardy, at risk, endangered, unsafe, unprotected, ill-protected, unguarded; More
open to attack, attackable, assailable, exposed, wide open;
undefended, unshielded, unfortified, unarmed, without arms, without weapons, defenceless, easily hurt/wounded/damaged, powerless, helpless;
rarepregnable, impuissant, resistless
"they evacuated children from the most vulnerable cities"
exposed to, open to, wide open to, liable to, prone to, prey to, susceptible to, subject to, not above, in danger of, at risk of, at the mercy of, an easy target for, easily affected by;
in the firing line;
raresusceptive of
"he is extremely sensible and less vulnerable to criticism than most"
antonyms: well protected, invulnerable, resilient, immune to,

Origin:
From the Latin world "Vulnus" which means to "wound"

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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:03 pm

It gets on my nerves how people do stuff and then try to blame others for it. Fess up to yourself and get over it.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:04 pm

Okay, you're clearly not getting what the word vulnerable actually means, so we can't move on.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:04 pm

eddie wrote:I shouldn't have to do this for you, of all people rags:

vulnerable
ˈvʌln(ə)rəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: vulnerable
exposed to the possibility of being attacked or harmed, either physically or emotionally.
"we were in a vulnerable position"
synonyms: in danger, in peril, in jeopardy, at risk, endangered, unsafe, unprotected, ill-protected, unguarded; More
open to attack, attackable, assailable, exposed, wide open;
undefended, unshielded, unfortified, unarmed, without arms, without weapons, defenceless, easily hurt/wounded/damaged, powerless, helpless;
rarepregnable, impuissant, resistless
"they evacuated children from the most vulnerable cities"
exposed to, open to, wide open to, liable to, prone to, prey to, susceptible to, subject to, not above, in danger of, at risk of, at the mercy of, an easy target for, easily affected by;
in the firing line;
raresusceptive of
"he is extremely sensible and less vulnerable to criticism than most"
antonyms: well protected, invulnerable, resilient, immune to,

Origin:
From the Latin world "Vulnus" which means to "wound"


Please don't lecture me. I know what it means, and I know the context in which you're using it. Unless someone is not in their right mind because of mental illness, being "vulnerable" does not excuse them for their own actions.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:05 pm

eddie wrote:Okay, you're clearly not getting what the word vulnerable actually means, so we can't move on.

I do know what it means, so don't bother to patronise me eddie. I just disagree with you. People do stupid things, I get that, but to then blame someone else for their own stupidity is ... stupid.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:07 pm

Are children vulnerable?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:08 pm

eddie wrote:Are children vulnerable?

In what way?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:08 pm

Are recently widowed people vulnerable?

What about a parent who's just lost a child? Vulnerable?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:08 pm

eddie wrote:Are recently widowed people vulnerable?

What about a parent who's just lost a child? Vulnerable?

In what way?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Are children vulnerable?

In what way?

In this way.... Choose any word off the list

exposed to the possibility of being attacked or harmed, either physically or emotionally.
"we were in a vulnerable position"
synonyms: in danger, in peril, in jeopardy, at risk, endangered, unsafe, unprotected, ill-protected, unguarded; More
open to attack, attackable, assailable, exposed, wide open;
undefended, unshielded, unfortified, unarmed, without arms, without weapons, defenceless, easily hurt/wounded/damaged, powerless, helpless;
rarepregnable, impuissant, resistless
"they evacuated children from the most vulnerable cities"
exposed to, open to, wide open to, liable to, prone to, prey to, susceptible to, subject to, not above, in danger of, at risk of, at the mercy of, an easy target for, easily affected by;
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Are recently widowed people vulnerable?

What about a parent who's just lost a child? Vulnerable?

In what way?

See my above post
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:10 pm

FGS Vunerable means being unable to protect yourself.

Sometimes Rags you are sooooooooooo obtuse.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:11 pm

Oh FFS. In your world, nobody is responsible for themselves are they? Not one fucking person. It's always someone else's fault.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh FFS. In your world, nobody is responsible for themselves are they? Not one fucking person. It's always someone else's fault.

No? Ive never said that?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:12 pm

Rags, in my world I recognise that in some circumstances some people are VUNERABLE to manipulation and unable to protect themselves from it.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:14 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Oh FFS. In your world, nobody is responsible for themselves are they? Not one fucking person. It's always someone else's fault.

No? Ive never said that?

You pretty much have. So in your world, anyone who joins the Scientologists have been exploited because they're "vulnerable"? They don't actually choose to join, they're made to join against their own will?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:16 pm

This is a list of people who are, through no fault of their own, could be, or can be, vulnerable:

Widowed people
Elderly people
Children
Mentally ill people
People on drugs
Frail and sick people
Recently bereaved people
Teenagers
Homeless people
People who live alone
People who are socially awkward


Possibly more to add to that list.

All those people are or can become, vulnerbale to being preyed upon.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:

No? Ive never said that?

You pretty much have. So in your world, anyone who joins the Scientologists have been exploited because they're "vulnerable"? They don't actually choose to join, they're made to join against their own will?


Sometimes no, in most cases yes, because they wouldn't go there is they weren't vunerable, because people who aren't vunerable would dismiss it out of hand, and once they are there, the tactics used on prevent them making up their own minds and manipulate them into staying.

Have you watched the videos and you still haven't told me what tactics they used on you and how you were able to get away, because it's very rare for someone to get away.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:17 pm

eddie wrote:This is a list of people who are, through no fault of their own, could be, or can be, vulnerable:

Widowed people
Elderly people
Children
Mentally ill people
People on drugs
Frail and sick people
Recently bereaved people
Teenagers
Homeless people
People who live alone
People who are socially awkward


Possibly more to add to that list.

All those people are or can become, vulnerbale  to being preyed upon.


Many more
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Oh FFS. In your world, nobody is responsible for themselves are they? Not one fucking person. It's always someone else's fault.

No? Ive never said that?

You pretty much have. So in your world, anyone who joins the Scientologists have been exploited because they're "vulnerable"? They don't actually choose to join, they're made to join against their own will?

I don't say that. I was replying to your comment that not EVERYONE is able to resist being preyed upon because they are vulnerable.

So don't put words in my mouth becasue I certainly am not a vulnerable person so far. But I could become one, refer to my list.

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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:19 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You pretty much have. So in your world, anyone who joins the Scientologists have been exploited because they're "vulnerable"? They don't actually choose to join, they're made to join against their own will?


Sometimes no, in most cases yes, because they wouldn't go there is they weren't vunerable, because people who aren't vunerable would dismiss it out of hand, and once they are there, the tactics used on prevent them making up their own minds and manipulate them into staying.

Have you watched the videos and you still haven't told me what tactics they used on you and how you were able to get away, because it's very rare for someone to get away.

You're not "vulnerable" just because you're pissed off with life and you're looking for an alternative, or you're looking for answers to something lacking within yourself.

What do you mean it's rare for someone to get away? They choose to stay, unless they're physically locked up or physically restrained. Are you suggesting that anyone who decides to leave is physically restrained?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:19 pm

eddie wrote:This is a list of people who are, through no fault of their own, could be, or can be, vulnerable:

Widowed people
Elderly people
Children
Mentally ill people
People on drugs
Frail and sick people
Recently bereaved people
Teenagers
Homeless people
People who live alone
People who are socially awkward


Possibly more to add to that list.

All those people are or can become, vulnerbale  to being preyed upon.


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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:20 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You pretty much have. So in your world, anyone who joins the Scientologists have been exploited because they're "vulnerable"? They don't actually choose to join, they're made to join against their own will?

I don't say that. I was replying to your comment that not EVERYONE is able to resist being preyed upon because they are vulnerable.

So don't put words in my mouth becasue I certainly am not a vulnerable person so far. But I could become one, refer to my list.


You were replying to this post:

Some people are looking for answers, and they are ready to be persuaded to follow a certain course.


You said:

Those people are called "vulnerable" and are easily manipulated.

You were therefore implying that they're somehow joining against their will.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:


Sometimes no, in most cases yes, because they wouldn't go there is they weren't vunerable, because people who aren't vunerable would dismiss it out of hand, and once they are there, the tactics used on prevent them making up their own minds and manipulate them into staying.

Have you watched the videos and you still haven't told me what tactics they used on you and how you were able to get away, because it's very rare for someone to get away.

You're not "vulnerable" just because you're pissed off with life and you're looking for an alternative, or you're looking for answers to something lacking within yourself.

What do you mean it's rare for someone to get away? They choose to stay, unless they're physically locked up or physically restrained. Are you suggesting that anyone who decides to leave is physically restrained?


Do you understand manipulation and the use of hypnosis and sleep deprivation, hunger and message bombardment, confidence undermining and yes, in some cases they have be know to physically restrain.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:21 pm

eddie wrote:
eddie wrote:This is a list of people who are, through no fault of their own, could be, or can be, vulnerable:

Widowed people
Elderly people
Children
Mentally ill people
People on drugs
Frail and sick people
Recently bereaved people
Teenagers
Homeless people
People who live alone
People who are socially awkward


Possibly more to add to that list.

All those people are or can become, vulnerbale  to being preyed upon.



Oh please ...
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:22 pm

And you still haven't said what methods they used on you Rags
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:24 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You're not "vulnerable" just because you're pissed off with life and you're looking for an alternative, or you're looking for answers to something lacking within yourself.

What do you mean it's rare for someone to get away? They choose to stay, unless they're physically locked up or physically restrained. Are you suggesting that anyone who decides to leave is physically restrained?


Do you understand manipulation and the use of hypnosis and sleep deprivation, hunger and message bombardment, confidence undermining and yes, in some cases they have be know to physically restrain.

How many times do I have to say it? If they're being hypnotised against their will, or restrained physically so they can't leave, that's a different matter. If people choose to get involved in a group where they're listening to messages and tolerating people sayng negative things about them, it's entirely up to them.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:24 pm

sassy wrote:And you still haven't said what methods they used on you Rags

I'll just clarify that at no time did I join the Scientologists, but they tried to persuade me to.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:26 pm

Precisely, so what methods did they use to try and persuade you and did you ever go inside a building with them, or was it just on the street where they can't do much manipulation.

Because you obviously don't have a clue about what they do.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You pretty much have. So in your world, anyone who joins the Scientologists have been exploited because they're "vulnerable"? They don't actually choose to join, they're made to join against their own will?

I don't say that. I was replying to your comment that not EVERYONE is able to resist being preyed upon because they are vulnerable.

So don't put words in my mouth becasue I certainly am not a vulnerable person so far. But I could become one, refer to my list.


You were replying to this post:

Some people are looking for answers, and they are ready to be persuaded to follow a certain course.


You said:

Those people are called "vulnerable" and are easily manipulated.

You were therefore implying that they're somehow joining against their will.

Vulnerable people are kind of joining agaisnt their own will, it kind of goes in the territory of being "vulnerable".

Not everyone who joins is vulnerable obviously, but it's easier to get a vulnerable person to join up...isn't it?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:34 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You were replying to this post:




You said:



You were therefore implying that they're somehow joining against their will.

Vulnerable people are kind of joining agaisnt their own will, it kind of goes in the territory of being "vulnerable".

Not everyone who joins is vulnerable obviously, but it's easier to get a vulnerable person to join up...isn't it?

This is where I disagree with you. People do join these groups because they want to. It's later on that they get disillusioned because they find it hasn't helped them, or it hasn't lived up to their expectations.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:36 pm

sassy wrote:Precisely, so what methods did they use to try and persuade you and did you ever go inside a building with them, or was it just on the street where they can't do much manipulation.

Because you obviously don't have a clue about what they do.

Yes, I went into the building with them. They didn't forcibly try to stop me leaving later.

I dislike your assumption that you're the only one who knows anything just because you watched a few videos.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You were replying to this post:




You said:



You were therefore implying that they're somehow joining against their will.

Vulnerable people are kind of joining agaisnt their own will, it kind of goes in the territory of being "vulnerable".

Not everyone who joins is vulnerable obviously, but it's easier to get a vulnerable person to join up...isn't it?

This is where I disagree with you. People do join these groups because they want to. It's later on that they get disillusioned because they find it hasn't helped them, or it hasn't lived up to their expectations.

Yes some people join becasue they want to and others want to join becasue they're vulnerable and not really sure what they're getting into.
Some are preyed upon. The vulnerable ones.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:41 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

This is where I disagree with you. People do join these groups because they want to. It's later on that they get disillusioned because they find it hasn't helped them, or it hasn't lived up to their expectations.

Yes some people join becasue they want to and others want to join becasue they're vulnerable and not really sure what they're getting into.
Some are preyed upon. The vulnerable ones.

They all join because they want to. Then when they realise that it's not what they want, they leave. I really don't get what's so difficult to understand.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by eddie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:47 pm

Well I don't get why you can't see that vulnerable people are often sought out for these kind of cults.
I am not a shy, retiring or vulnerable person, in any way, but it doesn't prevent me seeing that there are vulnerable people around, in all shapes and sizes.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:54 pm

eddie wrote:Well I don't get why you can't see that vulnerable people are often sought out for these kind of cults.
I am not a shy, retiring or vulnerable person, in any way, but it doesn't prevent me seeing that there are vulnerable people around, in all shapes and sizes.

Well it's still their choice isn't it?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:03 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
You're not "vulnerable" just because you're pissed off with life and you're looking for an alternative, or you're looking for answers to something lacking within yourself.

What do you mean it's rare for someone to get away? They choose to stay, unless they're physically locked up or physically restrained. Are you suggesting that anyone who decides to leave is physically restrained?
Do you understand manipulation and the use of hypnosis and sleep deprivation, hunger and message bombardment, confidence undermining and yes, in some cases they have be know to physically restrain.
And the flip side to all of this discussion about the 'unfortunate humans' being preyed upon are those that are willfully looking and becoming part of the flock because they long to become part of a GROUP/COMMUNITY - anything/something that makes them feel connected.
A human doesn't always do things from a negative motivator --- there are the positive reasons as well:             

Synonyms for susceptible

adj exposed, naive         
for susceptible


  • aroused
  • be taken in
  • disposed
  • easily moved
  • fall for
  • given
  • gullible
  • impress
  • impressible
  • influenced
  • mark
  • movable
    nonresistant

    • obnoxious
    • open
    • out on a limb
    • persuadable
    • predisposed
    • pushover
    • roused
    • sensible
    • sentient
    • sitting duck


  • soft
  • stirred
  • subject
  • sucker
  • suggestible
  • susceptive
  • swallow
  • swayed
  • tender
  • touched
  • tumble for

The need/longing to find comfort and to belong often leaves many humans easy prey for the charlatans/con artist out there looking for their next victims and if the predators weren't so dog gone good at finding their prey --- well there wouldn't be so many SUCKERS BORN EVERY DAY! What better method to draw the public into a group then use the *STAR* quality of the entertainers that are on their membership list? And a whole lot of society just operate daily off of trust and faith; they believe that people are good until they're proven wrong and get burnt then they go the opposite direction! 

From what I've read - Raggs wasn't exposed to any form of manipulation/brainwashing or cohesion...she might have been invited to attend a service but that's about the extent of her obvious knowledge provided! Suspect  


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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:17 pm

I wasn't invited to a service. I could see how persuasive they were actually, but it was still my choice whether to join or not.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:35 pm

Vulnerable can be an umbrella word that also encompasses needy, confused, and stupid. Do these cults target the vulnerable, or do they merely exploit a person's need to be part of a commune because there's something seriously lacking in their lives?

Drug addicts are often vulnerable. But they choose to take the drugs that lead them to destruction. Who is blame? The set of circumstances that put them there, or the lack of personal responsibility.

If you think that circumstance put them there, and made them take drugs, then what's to say a paedophile isn't a victim of his own vulnerability, particularly if he's been abused himself as a child. Do we make excuses for him, or punish him?
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:40 pm

http://www.bustle.com/articles/72460-what-happens-when-you-leave-scientology-heres-what-we-know-from-those-who-left

In a special "Inside Scientology" report, the St. Petersburg Times (now known as the Tampa Bay Times) began a years-long investigation into the Church in 2009. The newspaper unearthed numerous accounts of former Scientologists who were allegedly chased, harassed, and even spied on by the Church.

Former Miscavige confidantes Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder claimed they hired private investigators to spy on potential enemies, sometimes for decades. Other former members told the newspaper that they had to sign drawn out affidavits in order to leave. These documents were allegedly intended to discredit them in case they ever spoke out against the Church.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:48 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:http://www.bustle.com/articles/72460-what-happens-when-you-leave-scientology-heres-what-we-know-from-those-who-left
In a special "Inside Scientology" report, the St. Petersburg Times (now known as the Tampa Bay Times) began a years-long investigation into the Church in 2009. The newspaper unearthed numerous accounts of former Scientologists who were allegedly chased, harassed, and even spied on by the Church.

Former Miscavige confidantes Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder claimed they hired private investigators to spy on potential enemies, sometimes for decades. Other former members told the newspaper that they had to sign drawn out affidavits in order to leave. These documents were allegedly intended to discredit them in case they ever spoke out against the Church.
Almost as hard to leave the 'MAFIA'...you risked your life and family name; but if you were dumb enough to stay and allow such heinous huckster's to get their hooks into you ~~~ well, so much for 'Free Will Thinking', HUH?

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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Syl on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:28 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I just said they tried it with me Sassy - which bit of that did you not understand?

Some people are looking for answers, and they are ready to be persuaded to follow a certain course. Then they blame others when it doesn't quite work out the way they wanted it to.

Those people are called "vulnerable" and are easily manipulated.

And also it seems they indoctrinate them from a very early age.
No wonder Katie Holmes got her and Tom Cruise's (if indeed he is the father) little girl away from the sect.
Something I didn't know...Mimi Rogers who was Tom Cruises first wife introduced him into scientology....which he has embraced ever since.
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Re: This could be the beginning of the end for Scientology

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:41 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:Those people are called "vulnerable" and are easily manipulated.
And also it seems they indoctrinate them from a very early age.
No wonder Katie Holmes got her and Tom Cruise's (if indeed he is the father) little girl away from the sect.
Something I didn't know...Mimi Rogers who was Tom Cruises first wife introduced him into scientology....which he has embraced ever since.

Because I was reading the in depth article and noticed that Mimi is the daughter of Phil Spickler --- it all tied together how rapidly Tom rose to the top within the hierarchy of the Scientology pyramid! 

Celebrities Who Have Left Scientology

Nicole Kidman, Christopher Reeve, Jerry Seinfeld and more

Mimi Rogers



Barry Brecheisen/Getty Images for Kari Feinstein's Style Lounge
Tom Cruise is perhaps the most famous living Scientologist. However, each of his three marriages – and three subsequent divorces – resulted in his ex-wives' departures from Scientology. Cruise's first marriage was to Rogers, who is known for her roles in The Rapture and Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery. Rogers originally brought Cruise into the fold of Scientology, according to RadarOnline. Ironically, after her divorce from Cruise, Rogers has since been referred to as a "former member" of the church.

Nicole Kidman




Dominique Charriau/WireImage
Cruise then married Kidman, who also has an impressive resume that includes Moulin Rouge! and Eyes Wide Shut (in which she co-starred with Cruise). Although Kidman has severed ties with the Church of Scientology since her divorce with Cruise, her religion is not something she readily discusses. "I've chosen not to speak publicly about Scientology," Kidman said in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter. "I have two children [adopted with Cruise] who are Scientologists – Connor and Isabella – and I utterly respect their beliefs."

Katie Holmes




Jennifer Graylock/FilmMagic
In Cruise's infamous, unhinged interview with Oprah, he jumped on a couch and professed his love for then-girlfriend and future wife, Holmes. Holmes, the Dawson's Creek star who also played Batman's love interest in Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins, was at ends with Scientology due to her family's Catholic background, according to Vanity Fair. The couple's child, Suri, further complicated matters with the court battle in which Holmes won primary custody. The Hollywood Reporter said Holmes didn't want Suri to be raised as a Scientologist. Holmes has been quiet about her reasons for leaving since the divorce.

Christopher Reeve




SGranitz/WireImage
Known for his portrayal of Superman (1978) and the equestrian accident that made him a quadraplegic, Reeve discussed his involvement with Scientology in his memoir, Nothing Is Impossible: Reflections on a New Life. Reeve said his skepticism grew when he was auditing and lied about a past incarnation that was really a story from Greek mythology. "The fact that I got away with a blatant fabrication," Reeve wrote, "completely devalued my faith in the process." After that, Reeve stopped pursuing Scientology.

Paul Haggis




Charles Eshelman/FilmMagic
Screenwriter Paul Haggis, who penned the scripts of Crash, Million Dollar Baby and Flags of Our Fathers, has been one of the more vocal critics of Scientology since his departure from the church. Haggis recently wrote an open letter supporting Remini's decision to leave: "Her parents, family and close friends were almost all Scientologists; the stakes for her were so much higher than for me. Her decision to leave was so much braver." Haggis originally broke with the church due to its endorsement of Proposition 8 in California, which would've banned gay marriage, according to the New Yorker.
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/lists/celebrities-who-have-left-scientology-20130806/mimi-rogers-19691231#ixzz47Ep5XP8Y

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