ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

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ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:18 pm

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is vastly over-diagnosed with many cases simply immature children who are the youngest in their class, a new study suggests.
The term ADHD is often used for a collection of behavioural problems linked to poor attention span including impulsiveness, restlessness and inability to concentrate.
Around three to seven per cent of British children are believed to have ADHD, about 400,000, with many being prescribed drugs to try and improve their concentration at school.

Prescriptions for drugs like Ritalin have doubled to 922,000 a year in the last decade for children diagnosed with ADHD but such medications can cause adverse reactions such as weight loss, liver toxicity, and suicidal thoughts, and in the short term may suppress pubertal growth.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12189369/ADHD-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-and-many-children-are-just-immature-say-scientists.html

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:22 pm

Didge wrote:Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is vastly over-diagnosed with many cases simply immature children who are the youngest in their class, a new study suggests.
The term ADHD is often used for a collection of behavioural problems linked to poor attention span including impulsiveness, restlessness and inability to concentrate.
Around three to seven per cent of British children are believed to have ADHD, about 400,000, with many being prescribed drugs to try and improve their concentration at school.

Prescriptions for drugs like Ritalin have doubled to 922,000 a year in the last decade for children diagnosed with ADHD but such medications can cause adverse reactions such as weight loss, liver toxicity, and suicidal thoughts, and in the short term may suppress pubertal growth.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12189369/ADHD-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-and-many-children-are-just-immature-say-scientists.html
You never made a single point on this article........cyclops lol!

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:26 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is vastly over-diagnosed with many cases simply immature children who are the youngest in their class, a new study suggests.
The term ADHD is often used for a collection of behavioural problems linked to poor attention span including impulsiveness, restlessness and inability to concentrate.
Around three to seven per cent of British children are believed to have ADHD, about 400,000, with many being prescribed drugs to try and improve their concentration at school.

Prescriptions for drugs like Ritalin have doubled to 922,000 a year in the last decade for children diagnosed with ADHD but such medications can cause adverse reactions such as weight loss, liver toxicity, and suicidal thoughts, and in the short term may suppress pubertal growth.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12189369/ADHD-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-and-many-children-are-just-immature-say-scientists.html
You never made a single point on this article........cyclops lol!  



Sorry I think its time for your afternoon milk and nap

Enjoy


As to the article I can make many points, but as you are not adult enough I shall wait for someone who has the ability to understand what has been stated

Ta

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:28 pm

Didge wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
You never made a single point on this article........cyclops lol!  



Sorry I think its time for your afternoon milk and nap

Enjoy


As to the article I can make many points, but as you are not adult enough I shall wait for someone who has the ability to understand what has been stated

Ta
But you didn`t did you and to be honest you do it a lot ,so i just wondered why it ok for you and not anybody else

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:31 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:



Sorry I think its time for your afternoon milk and nap

Enjoy


As to the article I can make many points, but as you are not adult enough I shall wait for someone who has the ability to understand what has been stated

Ta
But you didn`t did you and to be honest you do it a lot ,so i just wondered why it ok for you and not anybody else


The point to you is you posted an article and then made further comments not even on the debate. Now if you cannot grow up I suggest you get back in your play pen and stop acting like a child because you cannot move on

Your thread was locked because it was intentionally started as personal and now you are intentionally trying tyo ruin two more threads

Just because Victor has been made a mod, do not think you will not have yourself sent into the basement

Now either debate or I will have no choice to report you for  derailing threads

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:37 pm

Didge wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
But you didn`t did you and to be honest you do it a lot ,so i just wondered why it ok for you and not anybody else


The point to you is you posted an article and then made further comments not even on the debate. Now if you cannot grow up I suggest you get back in your play pen and stop acting like a child because you cannot move on

Your thread was locked because it was intentionally started as personal and now you are intentionally trying tyo ruin two more threads

Just because Victor has been made a mop, do not think your will not have yourself sent into the basement

Now either debate or I will have no choice to report you for being for derailing thjreads
i asked a question and was speaking to raggs regarding the thread
and now i was making a observation as to you complaint about my post whit no comment

but all in all i have had it to the back teeth with your sanctimonious and hypocritical attitude quite frankly and will point out your hypocracy when i see it

Ta 4/2

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:39 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


The point to you is you posted an article and then made further comments not even on the debate. Now if you cannot grow up I suggest you get back in your play pen and stop acting like a child because you cannot move on

Your thread was locked because it was intentionally started as personal and now you are intentionally trying tyo ruin two more threads

Just because Victor has been made a mop, do not think your will not have yourself sent into the basement

Now either debate or I will have no choice to report you for being for derailing thjreads
i asked a question and was speaking to raggs regarding the thread
and now i was making a observation as to you complaint about my post whit no comment

but all in all i have had it to the back teeth with your sanctimonious and hypocritical attitude quite frankly and will point out your hypocracy when i see it

Ta 4/2


It was locked and you started it deliberately to start and antagonize

Showing you are being utterly childish and proving this by still showing your inability to move on

Last chance

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:44 pm

Didge wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
But you didn`t did you and to be honest you do it a lot ,so i just wondered why it ok for you and not anybody else


The point to you is you posted an article and then made further comments not even on the debate. Now if you cannot grow up I suggest you get back in your play pen and stop acting like a child because you cannot move on

Your thread was locked because it was intentionally started as personal and now you are intentionally trying tyo ruin two more threads

Just because Victor has been made a mod, do not think you will not have yourself sent into the basement

Now either debate or I will have no choice to report you for  derailing threads
Oh i posted it in the basement i wanted to save the admins the trouble when you inevitable saw your self in the post and started throwing a tantrum as you so predictable have done

funny you seem ok with telling people that they have some kind of disorder or are racist or homophobic but when somebody does the same and points out exactly what you are
you flip a lid come out come the tears and stamping of feet

laugh
i need to change my trousers i may have peed a little

your hypocracy is so blatant

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:45 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


The point to you is you posted an article and then made further comments not even on the debate. Now if you cannot grow up I suggest you get back in your play pen and stop acting like a child because you cannot move on

Your thread was locked because it was intentionally started as personal and now you are intentionally trying tyo ruin two more threads

Just because Victor has been made a mod, do not think you will not have yourself sent into the basement

Now either debate or I will have no choice to report you for  derailing threads
Oh  i posted it in the basement i wanted to save the admins the trouble when you inevitable saw your self in the post  and started throwing a tantrum as you so predictable have done

funny you seem ok with telling people that they have some kind of disorder or are racist or homophobic but when somebody does the same and points out exactly what you are
you flip a lid come  out come the tears and stamping of feet

laugh
i need to change my trousers i may have peed a little

your hypocracy is so blatant



Reported

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:47 pm

Didge wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
Oh  i posted it in the basement i wanted to save the admins the trouble when you inevitable saw your self in the post  and started throwing a tantrum as you so predictable have done

funny you seem ok with telling people that they have some kind of disorder or are racist or homophobic but when somebody does the same and points out exactly what you are
you flip a lid come  out come the tears and stamping of feet

laugh
i need to change my trousers i may have peed a little

your hypocracy is so blatant



Reported
stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:06 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:



Reported
stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp stamp

I'm laughing at the comedy of it all.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:08 pm

An interesting subject nevertheless. I think it's probably overdiagnosed as well, and I'm really not sure about these drugs they prescribe for it.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:09 pm

Didge wrote:Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is vastly over-diagnosed with many cases simply immature children who are the youngest in their class, a new study suggests.
The term ADHD is often used for a collection of behavioural problems linked to poor attention span including impulsiveness, restlessness and inability to concentrate.
Around three to seven per cent of British children are believed to have ADHD, about 400,000, with many being prescribed drugs to try and improve their concentration at school.

Prescriptions for drugs like Ritalin have doubled to 922,000 a year in the last decade for children diagnosed with ADHD but such medications can cause adverse reactions such as weight loss, liver toxicity, and suicidal thoughts, and in the short term may suppress pubertal growth.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12189369/ADHD-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-and-many-children-are-just-immature-say-scientists.html

On a serious note.  I think giving kids drugs is just opening the way for a lifetime of addiction.   I should think the behaviour of a lot of kids is a combo of the wrong diet, lack of discipline and routine, and too much exposure to things way too old for them.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:An interesting subject nevertheless. I think it's probably overdiagnosed as well, and I'm really not sure about these drugs they prescribe for it.

Money.    How many times does someone go the doctor and get drugs chucked at them with barely a diagnosis.  It's happened to me.   I've actually sat there  and had to ask the doctor what the diagnosis is, and why he's giving me that particular drug, its side effects and long term effects.   I tend not to just take drugs without knowing exactly what they're going to do to my body.  

I remember being prescribed these ghastly florescent yellow antibiotics once, and some instinct in me kept telling me not to the take them.  That they were wrong for me.   But, I went ahead, as you do, because you presume the doctor is right.  They made me sick as a dog and so ill I threw them in the bin.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:14 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is vastly over-diagnosed with many cases simply immature children who are the youngest in their class, a new study suggests.
The term ADHD is often used for a collection of behavioural problems linked to poor attention span including impulsiveness, restlessness and inability to concentrate.
Around three to seven per cent of British children are believed to have ADHD, about 400,000, with many being prescribed drugs to try and improve their concentration at school.

Prescriptions for drugs like Ritalin have doubled to 922,000 a year in the last decade for children diagnosed with ADHD but such medications can cause adverse reactions such as weight loss, liver toxicity, and suicidal thoughts, and in the short term may suppress pubertal growth.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12189369/ADHD-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-and-many-children-are-just-immature-say-scientists.html

On a serious note.  I think giving kids drugs is just opening the way for a lifetime of addiction.   I should think the behaviour of a lot of kids is a combo of the wrong diet, lack of discipline and routine, and too much exposure to things way too old for them.


There is many factors that lead to behavioral problems and I am not a fan of drugs being used for mental health problems apart from at the beginning of severe cases. To bring a problem under control and then to help with many other methods. Again it is such a grey area, because again many of the diagnoses are based upon how again many boxes are ticked by a standard measure, which to me is problematic, where even then I think where too many get diagnosed others with mental health issues get missed.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:18 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

On a serious note.  I think giving kids drugs is just opening the way for a lifetime of addiction.   I should think the behaviour of a lot of kids is a combo of the wrong diet, lack of discipline and routine, and too much exposure to things way too old for them.


There is many factors that lead to behavioral problems and I am not a fan of drugs being used for mental health problems apart from at the beginning of severe cases. To bring a problem under control and then to help with many other methods. Again it is such a grey area, because again many of the diagnoses are based upon how again many boxes are ticked by a standard measure, which to me is problematic, where even then I think where too many get diagnosed others with mental health issues get missed.

I knew someone who suddenly developed the most awful joint pain, stomach pains and lack of energy.  His doctor diagnosed arthritis and ME and prescribed drugs.  This guy was on about 10 different medications, he told me.  And he felt like shit.   Then I found out that he'd only started the symptoms after his mother died, 10 months previously, and the related stress of a family feud over inheritance.   So, basically, his symptoms were all stress related.  But the doctor was just treating the body and not his mind and emotions.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:20 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:An interesting subject nevertheless. I think it's probably overdiagnosed as well, and I'm really not sure about these drugs they prescribe for it.

Money.    How many times does someone go the doctor and get drugs chucked at them with barely a diagnosis.  It's happened to me.   I've actually sat there  and had to ask the doctor what the diagnosis is, and why he's giving me that particular drug, its side effects and long term effects.   I tend not to just take drugs without knowing exactly what they're going to do to my body.  

I remember being prescribed these ghastly florescent yellow antibiotics once, and some instinct in me kept telling me not to the take them.  That they were wrong for me.   But, I went ahead, as you do, because you presume the doctor is right.  They made me sick as a dog and so ill I threw them in the bin.

I'd like to think that most doctors prescribe drugs because they do actually believe it's the best thing for the patient, and I think they do mostly. It's amazing how many people don't know very much about the drugs they're prescribed actually. If they asked more questions or did some research, it might help.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:22 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


There is many factors that lead to behavioral problems and I am not a fan of drugs being used for mental health problems apart from at the beginning of severe cases. To bring a problem under control and then to help with many other methods. Again it is such a grey area, because again many of the diagnoses are based upon how again many boxes are ticked by a standard measure, which to me is problematic, where even then I think where too many get diagnosed others with mental health issues get missed.

I knew someone who suddenly developed the most awful joint pain, stomach pains and lack of energy.  His doctor diagnosed arthritis and ME and prescribed drugs.  This guy was on about 10 different medications, he told me.  And he felt like shit.   Then I found out that he'd only started the symptoms after his mother died, 10 months previously, and the related stress of a family feud over inheritance.   So, basically, his symptoms were all stress related.  But the doctor was just treating the body and not his mind and emotions.

Very interesting indeed - I have an interest in psychosomatic conditions.

What kind of arthritis? There's a theory that rheumatoid arthritis can be triggered by some kind of traumatic event, although there's no actual proof of that. It will also make someone tired as well.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:25 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


There is many factors that lead to behavioral problems and I am not a fan of drugs being used for mental health problems apart from at the beginning of severe cases. To bring a problem under control and then to help with many other methods. Again it is such a grey area, because again many of the diagnoses are based upon how again many boxes are ticked by a standard measure, which to me is problematic, where even then I think where too many get diagnosed others with mental health issues get missed.

I knew someone who suddenly developed the most awful joint pain, stomach pains and lack of energy.  His doctor diagnosed arthritis and ME and prescribed drugs.  This guy was on about 10 different medications, he told me.  And he felt like shit.   Then I found out that he'd only started the symptoms after his mother died, 10 months previously, and the related stress of a family feud over inheritance.   So, basically, his symptoms were all stress related.  But the doctor was just treating the body and not his mind and emotions.


There is always going to be some who have side effects and more so with these types of drugs. That is too many drugs to be on but sadly some have to be on many though for their heart etc. Its never good for the system to have such an intake as it effects the liver and kidneys. Like I say with mental health issues only as a start measure should drugs be used to combat severe cases, where there then is much better methods to help people with problems. The main issue is though diagnosing based off a very subjective view of correlation of traits.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:29 pm

Pharmaceutical companies are obliged to list all the possible side effects of any particular drug - based on adverse effects noted in the trials. That doesn't mean that everyone who takes that drug will get all of them - or any of them. That's partly why there's so much trial and error when it comes to prescribing drugs. The other reason is that not all drugs are very effective in everyone who takes them.

One other reason is that the condition was possibly misdiagnosed so obviously the drug will not be effective.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:30 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I knew someone who suddenly developed the most awful joint pain, stomach pains and lack of energy.  His doctor diagnosed arthritis and ME and prescribed drugs.  This guy was on about 10 different medications, he told me.  And he felt like shit.   Then I found out that he'd only started the symptoms after his mother died, 10 months previously, and the related stress of a family feud over inheritance.   So, basically, his symptoms were all stress related.  But the doctor was just treating the body and not his mind and emotions.

Very interesting indeed - I have an interest in psychosomatic conditions.

What kind of arthritis? There's a theory that rheumatoid arthritis can be triggered by some kind of traumatic event, although there's no actual proof of that. It will also make someone tired as well.

You'd be surprised, or maybe not, how many people are so desperate to get well and so disillusioned and disheartened with doctors.   Their frustration at being offered drugs instead of perhaps help with the root cause of their problems is more common that most people think.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Pharmaceutical companies are obliged to list all the possible side effects of any particular drug - based on adverse effects noted in the trials. That doesn't mean that everyone who takes that drug will get all of them - or any of them. That's partly why there's so much trial and error when it comes to prescribing drugs. The other reason is that not all drugs are very effective in everyone who takes them.

One other reason is that the condition was possibly misdiagnosed so obviously the drug will not be effective.

You can always check on the packaging and the internet to see what the side effects are.    But many people don't. They have blind trust.   I just think it's kind of tragic that drugs are now seen as the cure all, when the reality is that perhaps with many conditions, the immune system is compromised and that needs to be addressed.  Also the state of mind and mindset of an individual.   Sometimes, it seems as though the doctors are cutting off the head to cure the disease.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:35 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Very interesting indeed - I have an interest in psychosomatic conditions.

What kind of arthritis? There's a theory that rheumatoid arthritis can be triggered by some kind of traumatic event, although there's no actual proof of that. It will also make someone tired as well.

You'd be surprised, or maybe not, how many people are so desperate to get well and so disillusioned and disheartened with doctors.   Their frustration at being offered drugs instead of perhaps help with the root cause of their problems is more common that most people think.

Yes, I understand that. Half the problem is that they don't actually know what the root cause of a medical condition is. For example, in RA they know the mechanism by which the immune system attacks the joint, but they don't know what triggers that off. If they did, they might know how to untrigger it without drugs.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:37 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Pharmaceutical companies are obliged to list all the possible side effects of any particular drug - based on adverse effects noted in the trials. That doesn't mean that everyone who takes that drug will get all of them - or any of them. That's partly why there's so much trial and error when it comes to prescribing drugs. The other reason is that not all drugs are very effective in everyone who takes them.



One other reason is that the condition was possibly misdiagnosed so obviously the drug will not be effective.

You can always check on the packaging and the internet to see what the side effects are.    But many people don't. They have blind trust.   I just think it's kind of tragic that drugs are now seen as the cure all, when the reality is that perhaps with many conditions, the immune system is compromised and that needs to be addressed.  Also the state of mind and mindset of an individual.   Sometimes, it seems as though the doctors are cutting off the head to cure the disease.

I think that very few people actually read the package insert or have any idea of how a drug works. The doctor might tell them some of the common side effects, but not all of them.

There's also a possibility that some people might experience side effects because they have read it and they're kind of expecting a particular side effect - sort of like the placebo effect in reverse.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:38 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
On a serious note.  I think giving kids drugs is just opening the way for a lifetime of addiction.   I should think the behaviour of a lot of kids is a combo of the wrong diet, lack of discipline and routine, and too much exposure to things way too old for them.

True all of that, plus the fact that those drugs are tested according to weight of an average adult male/female and never monitored for the weight of a child: whether it be for ADHD or Epilepsy!  The doctors prescribe and depending upon the knowledge of the pharmacist and how in tuned they are to the patient that is getting the drugs --- they may or may not caution the parent into the dosage restrictions!

And if you really read those finite printed pages of side affects - Primary and Secondary --- you'd be well served to find another method of treatment.  But as shocking as all that can be --- many a school district will uniformly blanket their attitudes about; 'keep that ADHD diagnosed child as medicated as possible and then they are no longer a classroom disruptive child' ---

There have been schools that have peer pressured parents and custodial parents into keeping the  Ritalin oral {over 60 specific types of medications} doses &/or increased beyond the recommended amount because it's easier to keep that little body doped up like a ZOMBIE then to teach them throughout the day!

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by sassy on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:41 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
On a serious note.  I think giving kids drugs is just opening the way for a lifetime of addiction.   I should think the behaviour of a lot of kids is a combo of the wrong diet, lack of discipline and routine, and too much exposure to things way too old for them.

True all of that, plus the fact that those drugs are tested according to weight of an average adult male/female and never monitored for the weight of a child: whether it be for ADHD or Epilepsy!  The doctors prescribe and depending upon the knowledge of the pharmacist and how in tuned they are to the patient that is getting the drugs --- they may or may not caution the parent into the dosage restrictions!

And if you really read those finite printed pages of side affects - Primary and Secondary --- you'd be well served to find another method of treatment.  But as shocking as all that can be --- many a school district will uniformly blanket their attitudes about; 'keep that ADHD diagnosed child as medicated as possible and then they are no longer a classroom disruptive child' ---

There have been schools that have peer pressured parents and custodial parents into keeping the  Ritalin oral {over 60 specific types of medications} doses &/or increased beyond the recommended amount because it's easier to keep that little body doped up like a ZOMBIE then to teach them throughout the day!


Too true, had a friend with a son suffering to ADHD, it made her life impossible, but she fought like mad not to give him drugs, even though the main people pressurising her where the school.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:44 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I knew someone who suddenly developed the most awful joint pain, stomach pains and lack of energy.  His doctor diagnosed arthritis and ME and prescribed drugs.  This guy was on about 10 different medications, he told me.  And he felt like shit.   Then I found out that he'd only started the symptoms after his mother died, 10 months previously, and the related stress of a family feud over inheritance.   So, basically, his symptoms were all stress related.  But the doctor was just treating the body and not his mind and emotions.


There is always going to be some who have side effects and more so with these types of drugs. That is too many drugs to be on but sadly some have to be on many though for their heart etc. Its never good for the system to have such an intake as it effects the liver and kidneys. Like I say with mental health issues only as a start measure should drugs be used to combat severe cases, where there then is much better methods to help people with problems. The main issue is though diagnosing based off a very subjective view of correlation of traits.

I absolutely agree with you when it comes to some mental disorders - mainly the neuroses rather than the psychoses. If it's mild, there are steps people can take to help themselves. If it's severe then they will need medication probably, but they can also then try to help themselves when they feel a little better.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:49 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
On a serious note.  I think giving kids drugs is just opening the way for a lifetime of addiction.   I should think the behaviour of a lot of kids is a combo of the wrong diet, lack of discipline and routine, and too much exposure to things way too old for them.

True all of that, plus the fact that those drugs are tested according to weight of an average adult male/female and never monitored for the weight of a child: whether it be for ADHD or Epilepsy!  The doctors prescribe and depending upon the knowledge of the pharmacist and how in tuned they are to the patient that is getting the drugs --- they may or may not caution the parent into the dosage restrictions!

And if you really read those finite printed pages of side affects - Primary and Secondary --- you'd be well served to find another method of treatment.  But as shocking as all that can be --- many a school district will uniformly blanket their attitudes about; 'keep that ADHD diagnosed child as medicated as possible and then they are no longer a classroom disruptive child' ---

There have been schools that have peer pressured parents and custodial parents into keeping the  Ritalin oral {over 60 specific types of medications} doses &/or increased beyond the recommended amount because it's easier to keep that little body doped up like a ZOMBIE then to teach them throughout the day!

In the UK, so far as I know, responsibility for dosage lies with the doctor.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by sassy on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:52 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:

True all of that, plus the fact that those drugs are tested according to weight of an average adult male/female and never monitored for the weight of a child: whether it be for ADHD or Epilepsy!  The doctors prescribe and depending upon the knowledge of the pharmacist and how in tuned they are to the patient that is getting the drugs --- they may or may not caution the parent into the dosage restrictions!

And if you really read those finite printed pages of side affects - Primary and Secondary --- you'd be well served to find another method of treatment.  But as shocking as all that can be --- many a school district will uniformly blanket their attitudes about; 'keep that ADHD diagnosed child as medicated as possible and then they are no longer a classroom disruptive child' ---

There have been schools that have peer pressured parents and custodial parents into keeping the  Ritalin oral {over 60 specific types of medications} doses &/or increased beyond the recommended amount because it's easier to keep that little body doped up like a ZOMBIE then to teach them throughout the day!

In the UK, so far as I know, responsibility for dosage lies with the doctor.


It does, but schools can tell the doctor that the dose isn't working enough and they often do.  A good doctor will take no notice of them.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:56 pm

I'm going to mention an issue which was in the press a little while ago concerning the death of Glenn Frey, which I commented on at the time.

The official cause of death was complications arising from rheumatoid arthritis, colitis, and pneumonia. Glenn Frey's manager claimed that it was his medication which was at least partly responsible for his death. He didn't name that medication but what he said caused a lot of speculation on the internet as to which drug he was talking about. It also caused some panic amongst people taking medication for RA or colitis, and I wonder if it caused some people to stop taking their medication. I think it was a very irresponsible thing to say really.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm going to mention an issue which was in the press a little while ago concerning the death of Glenn Frey, which I commented on at the time.

The official cause of death was complications arising from rheumatoid arthritis, colitis, and pneumonia. Glenn Frey's manager claimed that it was his medication which was at least partly responsible for his death. He didn't name that medication but what he said caused a lot of speculation on the internet as to which drug he was talking about. It also caused some panic amongst people taking medication for RA or colitis, and I wonder if it caused some people to stop taking their medication. I think it was a very irresponsible thing to say really.


Probably an anti-inflammatory which is notorious for affecting the digestive system.    I believe a lot of illness is caused by inflammation of the body.   Sometimes, we just don't know we have it.  We just live with it until it damages the body and immune system beyond repair.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:11 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I'm going to mention an issue which was in the press a little while ago concerning the death of Glenn Frey, which I commented on at the time.

The official cause of death was complications arising from rheumatoid arthritis, colitis, and pneumonia. Glenn Frey's manager claimed that it was his medication which was at least partly responsible for his death. He didn't name that medication but what he said caused a lot of speculation on the internet as to which drug he was talking about. It also caused some panic amongst people taking medication for RA or colitis, and I wonder if it caused some people to stop taking their medication. I think it was a very irresponsible thing to say really.


Probably an anti-inflammatory which is notorious for affecting the digestive system.    I believe a lot of illness is caused by inflammation of the body.   Sometimes, we just don't know we have it.  We just live with it until it damages the body and immune system beyond repair.

Possibly an anti-inflammatory, but it's more likely to been a DMARD or a biologic - both of which have been linked to pneumonia because of the effect on the immune system. However, RA itself can also affect the lungs, so the pneumonia might have been a result of the illness, not of the medication.

Colitis can be an autoimmune condition, like RA, and it's not surprising that he probably had two autoimmune conditions, so I would say the colitis was not caused by a drug.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:28 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I'm going to mention an issue which was in the press a little while ago concerning the death of Glenn Frey, which I commented on at the time.

The official cause of death was complications arising from rheumatoid arthritis, colitis, and pneumonia. Glenn Frey's manager claimed that it was his medication which was at least partly responsible for his death. He didn't name that medication but what he said caused a lot of speculation on the internet as to which drug he was talking about. It also caused some panic amongst people taking medication for RA or colitis, and I wonder if it caused some people to stop taking their medication. I think it was a very irresponsible thing to say really.

Probably an anti-inflammatory which is notorious for affecting the digestive system.    I believe a lot of illness is caused by inflammation of the body.   Sometimes, we just don't know we have it.  We just live with it until it damages the body and immune system beyond repair.
Toxicology and how our bodies process any given pharmaceutical {man made pill} varies and then there is the toxic mixture of over medicating and having to many varieties of drugs sitting in our major organs {live & kidneys} that just never leave our system!  

Horatio stated > In the UK, so far as I know, responsibility for dosage lies with the doctor.
Hence the reason for a dependable good pharmacist is eons more important then the prescribing doctor --- physicians get extra perks/benefits and loads of FREE SAMPLES from the Big Pharma where as the pharmacist does not and pharmacist understand drug interactions have a degree just in that specific field.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by eddie on Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:02 pm

The problems are two-fold when it comes to drugs and/ or misdiagnosis.

Many GP's can be lazy and just dish out drugs, these are normally the type of Drs who, even as people in their walk of life, don't think beyond science and pills and powers that solve all ills. These type of people don't really go in for holistic methods.

Then there are the type of people who have absolutely no concept of how to read their bodies, are food-wise and will just pop a pill for every single thing and believe that despite what is well-known, antibiotics will cure their common cold (these people also call colds 'The Flu')

I come across some really dense people when it comes to health and body awareness.

One woman I know wrote on facebook: "my daughters temperature is really high, what shall I do?"

She had no idea to strip her off and cool her down, no idea that Calpol or other, would bring the temp down and wasn't at all aware that her daughter could suffer convulsions if she didn't get her temp down.

Isn't this just basic first aid knowledge??
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:10 pm

eddie wrote:The problems are two-fold when it comes to drugs and/ or misdiagnosis.

Many GP's can be lazy and just dish out drugs, these are normally the type of Drs who, even as people in their walk of life, don't think beyond science and pills and powers that solve all ills. These type of people don't really go in for holistic methods.

Then there are the type of people who have absolutely no concept of how to read their bodies, are food-wise and will just pop a pill for every single thing and believe that despite what is well-known, antibiotics will cure their common cold (these people also call colds 'The Flu')

I come across some really dense people when it comes to health and body awareness.

One woman I know wrote on facebook: "my daughters temperature is really high, what shall I do?"

She had no idea to strip her off and cool her down, no idea that Calpol or other, would bring the temp down and wasn't at all aware that her daughter could suffer convulsions if she didn't get her temp down.

Isn't this just basic first aid knowledge??

Don't you just hate it when people say they have flu when they clearly have a cold? Laughing

There's also a problem in that GPs simply don't have time to go into things in detail.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by eddie on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:07 pm

You're right rags, they give each patient a ten minute slot. I try to speak really quickly lol

I always try to have some knowledge of what in the about and what my ailment could be and how best I want to proceed.

Much as "they" advise agaisnt googling symptoms etc, I've always found Google really useful in health related topics.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:23 pm

Ask a Doctor web sights >>>

https://doctorsoncallnyc.com/ 

www.OnStar.com/Hands_Free_Calling

Or there are 'ASK A NURSE' web sights too >>>
Jitter bug phone service was a huge help for my housebound mother for emergency service and call a nurse for questions ...
www.GreatCall.com/ 
 
https://www.healthtap.com/topics/ask-a-nurse-online-free 

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/nursing/ask-nurse-online-free-572019.html 

*******************
Or for the latest updated prescriptions drug listing {in a font size that is easier to read}
http://www.medicinenet.com/medications/alpha_a.htm 


Do you have such a thing in your region?

And because I'm aware of 'same named' prescription drugs being much cheaper if ordered from Canada --- have you ever compared your prescription costs to something available from an outside source; or is that allowed in your country?

Not only are medical procedures charged out differently from county to county / or hospital to hospital --- prescriptions will vary in pricing form one location to another also --- here in America.

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Syl on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:58 pm

I don't know whether hyperactivity is diagnosed mistakenly nowadays, I do know in the 70's my son was eventually diagnosed with this, but very little help was available.
When he was around 14 months he was prescribed Phenergan to aid his sleeping...at that time he  slept very little at night and every 4 or 5 nights he didn't sleep at all. It worked at first...but soon he became immune to it....so the dose was strengthened, then strenghened again, before long I decided it couldn't be good just to drug him, so I lessened the dose and stopped medicating him.

He was exactly 3 years and 4 months before he actually slept through the night.
He was very very active....and very clever,  one drawback was he could not concentrate on anything for more than a couple of minutes.

Lego helped a lot, he actually would sit and construct with it....as did watching his diet, but I read nowadays that diet wont help with hyperactivity disorder....I would disagree.


Last edited by Syl on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by eddie on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:59 pm

We have an NHS helpline and yes, I think there are online "ask the doctor" websites too
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by sassy on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:59 pm

Our prescriptions are free aspca, as are all our treatments, so it's not something we ever think about really.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by eddie on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:00 pm

Not everyone's prescriptions are free sassy?
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by sassy on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:01 pm

Oops sorry, so they are not, having had mine free for 10years now, I forget that!
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:03 pm

Yes - mine are not free. You can get a pre-payment card, which saves a lot if you have more than one prescription.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by eddie on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:04 pm

sassy wrote:Oops sorry, so they are not, having had mine free for 10years now, I forget that!

Hahaha thought so! Mine are free too as Graves Disease is classed as a lifelong illness even if I come out of remission. And of course children under 16 are free and OAP's...

It's only really healthy people in their midlife that have to pay lol
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by sassy on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:07 pm

Yep, my thyroxine was free before I was 60 as well.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:07 pm

eddie wrote:
sassy wrote:Oops sorry, so they are not, having had mine free for 10years now, I forget that!

Hahaha thought so! Mine are free too as Graves Disease is classed as a lifelong illness even if I come out of remission.  And of course children under 16 are free and OAP's...

It's only really healthy people in their midlife that have to pay lol

It's good that you can get them free. It's on that list of exemptions. Having a lifelong disease doesn't always guarantee free prescriptions.

I hardly see anyone paying for a prescription or using a pre-payment card - I'm usually the only one.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:22 pm

sassy wrote:Our prescriptions are free aspca, as are all our treatments, so it's not something we ever think about really.


If we qualify for Medicaid {diagnosed with a disability - variation abound} or have reached the age for Medicare {62 yrs or older} you are allowed a Federally funded help but for Medicaid there's a 'SPEND DOWN' {what you have to meet out of your own pocket prior to getting any state assistance for Doctors appointment &/or prescription drugs} --- the basis for why the ACA was generated. 
Except that states were allowed to 'OPT OUT' and mine did just that --- we have ZERO ACA help here.
 
I asked >>> Do you have such a thing in your region?

And because I'm aware of 'same named' prescription drugs being much cheaper if ordered from Canada --- have you ever compared your prescription costs to something available from an outside source; or is that allowed in your country?

Not only are medical procedures charged out differently from county to county / or hospital to hospital --- prescriptions will vary in pricing form one location to another also --- here in America.

But here's the Oxy-Moron reasoning for my angst about 'BIG PHARMA': Upjohn/Parker Laboratories etc., etc., et., all manufacture those very same name brand & generic drugs that are shipped into Canada and sold for ½ the price that they charge out to the Americans that have to fill them! 
Big Pharma, tried to make it illegal to order those prescription drugs from Canada {before the 18 trillion dollar Medicare Part D during GWB's terms in office}...there were some brick & mortar retail stores opened up that were undercutting the local pharmacy jacked up prices and Big Pharma was really pissed off.  But for all of those Americans on fixed income {disability &/or Medicare} they were able to survive and live with some breathing room --- Medicare Part D took care of that --- sort-of! 
Eddie posted > Hahaha thought so! Mine are free too as Graves Disease is classed as a lifelong illness even if I come out of remission. And of course children under 16 are free and OAP's...

It's only really healthy people in their midlife that have to pay lol
My state has suffered some horrendous budget short falls {really ignorant Gov got re-elected} and his method for attempting to balance the budget was to cut: aide to dependent children {food/medical/medicine} and assistance for the handicapped & elderly {food/medical/medicine}...while the price gouging drug companies just raised prices for prescriptions last April and again in October. 
Just in my neighborhood alone; the 5 elderly families that have been living on their Social Security {for over 5 years} have qualified for food assistance --- they got cut back from $85. a month to $16.00 a month!  That's barely going to keep them in toilet paper!  Evil or Very Mad

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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by sassy on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:27 pm

Sounds like your Govenor has been taking lessons from our Government, that's exactly the kind of thing they have been cutting, while of course giving the rich tax cuts.
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Re: ADHD is vastly overdiagnosed and many children are just immature, say scientists

Post by Syl on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:27 pm

My post looks really out of place....I didn't realise the thread had changed track...I just read the headline and responded to that. Rolling Eyes
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