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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

As an adult have you ever slapped anyone or been slapped?

Is it still more acceptable for a woman to slap a man than a man to slap a woman?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:45 am

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge stated >>> That is fair enough, just saying there are more avenues that lead to domestic violence that has been stated
Not defending any of this as its always wrong, but people are not being open minded enough on the issue
I have made no views on Rags points and would no doubt disagree
Oh, we've posted and regurgitated the info and posted helpful sights & links that need to be shared with anyone/everyone that has known or might know a human suffering from abuse...
It's just rather pathetic that 'SOME' posters go off the rail about a posted conversation between 2 people from 1970 that was only used as an EXAMPLE for discussion sakes and that's all...
ADHD seems to be a hazard with Ragg's and the vitriol that spells from her finger is a prime example of her irrational/hysteria driven way of communicating!  Twisted Evil

You seem rather obsessed with me dear. You remind me of someone else who was obsessed with me and rather histrionic at the same time.

If people don't want to discuss a story that they posted, perhaps they shouldn't post such stories. Cool


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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:48 am

HoratioTarr wrote:The majority of domestic violence injuries and murders happen after the victim has left. One can't escape a dangerous situation if it simply feels safer to stay.  Too, there is the guilt, self blame and shame and the desperate hope that things will, must, get better if only they try hard enough.   One can’t underestimate how worthless these people feel, how utterly miserable and hopeless.  It’s very sad.

100% right, but so few realise it.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:51 am

Anyway, I would say that people with "ADHD" would be unable to concentrate on one story - wouldn't you specsaver? Surprised

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:57 am

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

All those qualifications and not a speck of sense!  lol!
And you based this from what exactly?
Your own?
Quite an immature reply really, if you think he is wrong then reason your points

Slapping. - Page 5 Ummm-smiley-emoticon 

Didge stated >>>
Sorry am not interested in your fights with other posters as that adds nothing to the debate

Again there is much more about domestic violence, so lets just stick to the topics please as the points of the debate matter not the poster

Oh, so sorry; I'll catch onto your rational --- your a prime example of 'do as I say - not as I do'!!!  
I will try to remember your 'BETTER' personality traits for posting techniques --- really, I will.  LMAO

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:00 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge wrote:
And you based this from what exactly?
Your own?
Quite an immature reply really, if you think he is wrong then reason your points

Slapping. - Page 5 Ummm-smiley-emoticon 

Didge stated >>>
Sorry am not interested in your fights with other posters as that adds nothing to the debate

Again there is much more about domestic violence, so lets just stick to the topics please as the points of the debate matter not the poster

Oh, so sorry; I'll catch onto your rational --- your a prime example of 'do as I say - not as I do'!!!  
I will try to remember your 'BETTER' personality traits for posting techniques --- really, I will.  LMAO


Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster

Its quite pathetic actually

All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching

Sorry its immature

Now grow up

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:06 pm

Didge ranted >>> Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster
Its quite pathetic actually
All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching
Sorry its immature
Now grow up
No - not my intent at all; yet you've proven your anal attitude just keeps forging forward daily.  I explained to YOU {anal arse that you are} that since you couldn't be bothered in doing an reading and just stepped into the end of this entire thread/topic --- I WOULDN'T BE TAKING RAGG'S OPINION FOR ANYTHING THING OF VALUE!!!  
You are the one that made a reference to Sassy's POV regarding something you'd just latched onto from Ragg's utter ignorant posts!  

See, I tried to keep you from appearing the utter fool and jerk; **BINGO** - you've finished the act quite sufficiently all on your own vile method of posting!  

ROTFLMAO --- you are a primo example of HYPOCRITE and now a fool as well.  WELL DONE!!!

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:08 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge ranted >>> Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster
Its quite pathetic actually
All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching
Sorry its immature
Now grow up
No - not my intent at all; yet you've proven your anal attitude just keeps forging forward daily.
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults

 I explained to YOU {anal arse that you are} that since you couldn't be bothered in doing an reading and just stepped into the end of this entire thread/topic
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults

--- I WOULDN'T BE TAKING RAGG'S OPINION FOR ANYTHING THING OF VALUE!!!  
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults
You are the one that made a reference to Sassy's POV regarding something you'd just latched onto from Ragg's utter ignorant posts!  
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults

See, I tried to keep you from appearing the utter fool and jerk; BING - you've finished the act quite sufficiently all on your own vile method of posting!  
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults

ROTFLMAO --- you are a primo example of HYPOCRITE and now a fool as well.  WELL DONE!!!
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults


Again grow up, as you are not impressing anyone but making yourself look very childish

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:09 pm

That is definitely Beekeeper

As nobody has a potty mouth like Bee, so this child must be beekeeper

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:10 pm

Didge wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:

Slapping. - Page 5 Ummm-smiley-emoticon 



Oh, so sorry; I'll catch onto your rational --- your a prime example of 'do as I say - not as I do'!!!  
I will try to remember your 'BETTER' personality traits for posting techniques --- really, I will.  LMAO


Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster

Its quite pathetic actually

All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching

Sorry its immature

Now grow up

   I haven't 'ganged up' on anyone here.   I don't see anyone ganging up.  Raggamuffin puts across a valid argument, others respond.  That's the nature of debate.   You, however, seem to revel in stirring the pot.
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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:10 pm

Didge wrote:Actually it shows a shortsightedness by sassy why some men end up abusing.

My Irish grandfather fought throughout WW2 and had never been abusive until he came back and turned to drink to attempt to drown out the nightmares he continued to have after the conflict. There is nothing to excuse his violence, and I condemn it full but there is also such a thing as post traumatic stress which effects the lives of thousands of soldiers. So whilst I do not deny some men go out of their way to manipulate women to control them and abuse them we also fail thousands of the armed forces who simple cannot cope with what they have been through. Hence why it is not so cut and dry and sassy is trying to make out. He drank away the shop the family had and hit out all the time at the family. My grandmother died in the end of a heart attack and he died not long after of a broken heart. To me they were yet more victims of the effects of that war.


Here is my posts again which is true in that Sassy takes a one track view of the problem

Prove otheriwse

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:11 pm

Didge wrote:That is definitely Beekeeper

As nobody has a potty mouth like Bee, so this child must be beekeeper

Didn't you agree to stop accusing posters of being someone else?


Last edited by HoratioTarr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:11 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster

Its quite pathetic actually

All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching

Sorry its immature

Now grow up

   I haven't 'ganged up' on anyone here.   I don't see anyone ganging up.  Raggamuffin puts across a valid argument, others respond.  That's the nature of debate.   You, however, seem to revel in stirring the pot.


So you never jumped on posts where people were being abusive and tried to stir then?

I am afraid you need to wash your mouth out with soap

You were ganging up and it shows your immaturity

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:12 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge ranted >>> Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster
Its quite pathetic actually
All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching
Sorry its immature
Now grow up
No - not my intent at all; yet you've proven your anal attitude just keeps forging forward daily.  I explained to YOU {anal arse that you are} that since you couldn't be bothered in doing an reading and just stepped into the end of this entire thread/topic --- I WOULDN'T BE TAKING RAGG'S OPINION FOR ANYTHING THING OF VALUE!!!  
You are the one that made a reference to Sassy's POV regarding something you'd just latched onto from Ragg's utter ignorant posts!  

See, I tried to keep you from appearing the utter fool and jerk; **BINGO** - you've finished the act quite sufficiently all on your own vile method of posting!  

ROTFLMAO --- you are a primo example of HYPOCRITE and now a fool as well.  WELL DONE!!!

Now then specsaver, pay attention.

You're clearly not up to speed with the dynamics of this forum. For the past few days I have not been discussing anything with Didge. This is not a new thing - I get tired of being told I'm "wrong" every five minutes. I daresay that in due course normal service will be resumed - possibly on a thread where the Israelis are accused of something they haven't actually done.

His post on this issue was nothing to do with me, and was not a result of anything I've said.

Your repeated attempts to drag Didge into some kind of personal agenda and to get him to start on me appear to have failed, and that is to his credit. He doesn't generally join in with mobs on this forum - I will say that for him.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:12 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:That is definitely Beekeeper

As nobody has a potty mouth like Bee, so this child must be beekeeper

Didn't you agree to stop accusing posters of being someone else?


Changed my mind, and when I know it to be someone else there is no point in people denying this

When you stop shit stirring, then I might listen to you

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:13 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

   I haven't 'ganged up' on anyone here.   I don't see anyone ganging up.  Raggamuffin puts across a valid argument, others respond.  That's the nature of debate.   You, however, seem to revel in stirring the pot.


So you never jumped on posts where people were being abusive and tried to stir then?

I am afraid you need to wash your mouth out with soap

You were ganging up and it shows your immaturity

I see you're still smarting from me commenting on your use of the C word as a form of rational debate.   Get over it, you fanny.
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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:14 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Didn't you agree to stop accusing posters of being someone else?


Changed my mind, and when I know it to be someone else there is no point in people denying this

When you stop shit stirring, then I might listen to you

Well, if you're not listening to me, stop replying to my posts.
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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:14 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


So you never jumped on posts where people were being abusive and tried to stir then?

I am afraid you need to wash your mouth out with soap

You were ganging up and it shows your immaturity

I see you're still smarting from me commenting on your use of the C word as a form of rational debate.   Get over it, you fanny.


In your case its most appropriate I have to say lol

So not smarting, that was just another example of you shit stirring my child

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:15 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


Changed my mind, and when I know it to be someone else there is no point in people denying this

When you stop shit stirring, then I might listen to you

Well, if you're not listening to me, stop replying to my posts.


Not until you act with some maturity and stop shit stirring and ganging up on posters

Can you not fight your own battles you need to jump on others to belittle people

That really shows how pathetic you are and childish

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:21 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


Yes its called act your age which its seems you and Horatio and Sassy and more intent on ganging up on another poster

Its quite pathetic actually

All you have posted to me in the last few posts is looking for others to agree with your bitching

Sorry its immature

Now grow up

   I haven't 'ganged up' on anyone here.   I don't see anyone ganging up.  Raggamuffin puts across a valid argument, others respond.  That's the nature of debate.   You, however, seem to revel in stirring the pot.

I think he's referring to your silly "moot" post. I was quite surprised at that one myself.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:28 pm

Didge wrote:
Didge wrote:Actually it shows a shortsightedness by sassy why some men end up abusing.

My Irish grandfather fought throughout WW2 and had never been abusive until he came back and turned to drink to attempt to drown out the nightmares he continued to have after the conflict. There is nothing to excuse his violence, and I condemn it full but there is also such a thing as post traumatic stress which effects the lives of thousands of soldiers. So whilst I do not deny some men go out of their way to manipulate women to control them and abuse them we also fail thousands of the armed forces who simple cannot cope with what they have been through. Hence why it is not so cut and dry and sassy is trying to make out. He drank away the shop the family had and hit out all the time at the family. My grandmother died in the end of a heart attack and he died not long after of a broken heart. To me they were yet more victims of the effects of that war.


Here is my posts again which is true in that Sassy takes a one track view of the problem

Prove otheriwse

Yipper, a certified FOOL and HYPOCRITE to boot; you'll rant/rave/preach proper debate etiquette and yet you can't be bothered with doing your very own reading to get up todate with all of the factual/links and ADULT DISCUSSION that you missed out on! Razz
And I was wrong --- where you jumped into the fray was just at the point where members were sick & tired of Ragg's petulant rantings {that did look similar to yours from the recent posts} and the adults were smacking her knuckles quite rightly.

That's where you chose to come barging in here---without taking the time to READ ~~~ and you have the nerve to admonish the rest of the members for their behavior Suspect
Well little boy, you certainly do have the nerve --- utter lack of adult behavior is still something you might grow into...but until then; do stop behaving like a toddler with dirty undies! LMAO
BTW --- I'm NOT YO MOMMA - go do your own reading or better yet hire someone to decipher the written words for you...your comprehension is lacking as well.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:29 pm

On second thoughts it could also be Joy, but I am not fooled by the cover crap that it has claimed so far, that is evident, how it turns so easily and nastily on posters

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:30 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge wrote:


Here is my posts again which is true in that Sassy takes a one track view of the problem

Prove otheriwse

Yipper, a certified FOOL and HYPOCRITE to boot; you'll rant/rave/preach proper debate etiquette and yet you can't be bothered with doing your very own reading to get up todate with all of the factual/links and ADULT DISCUSSION that you missed out on! Razz  
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults

And I was wrong --- where you jumped into the fray was just at the point where members were sick & tired of Ragg's petulant rantings {that did look similar to yours from the recent posts} and the adults were smacking her knuckles quite rightly.  
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults

That's where you chose to come barging in here---without taking the time to READ ~~~ and you have the nerve to admonish the rest of the members for their behavior Suspect
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults
Well little boy, you certainly do have the nerve --- utter lack of adult behavior is still something you might grow into...but until then; do stop behaving like a toddler with dirty undies!  LMAO  
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults
BTW --- I'm NOT YO MOMMA - go do your own reading or better yet hire someone to decipher the written words for you...your comprehension is lacking as well.
No point made on the debate, just more infantile insults




Please grow up Joy you are not fooling anyone and as you never made any point on anything I posted, It shows you are nothing more than here to shit stir

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:32 pm

Didge wrote:Actually it shows a shortsightedness by sassy why some men end up abusing.

My Irish grandfather fought throughout WW2 and had never been abusive until he came back and turned to drink to attempt to drown out the nightmares he continued to have after the conflict. There is nothing to excuse his violence, and I condemn it full but there is also such a thing as post traumatic stress which effects the lives of thousands of soldiers. So whilst I do not deny some men go out of their way to manipulate women to control them and abuse them we also fail thousands of the armed forces who simple cannot cope with what they have been through. Hence why it is not so cut and dry and sassy is trying to make out. He drank away the shop the family had and hit out all the time at the family. My grandmother died in the end of a heart attack and he died not long after of a broken heart. To me they were yet more victims of the effects of that war.


Here is my posts again which is true in that Sassy takes a one track view of the problem

Prove otherwise

One last chance to debate the points

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:35 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge wrote:


Here is my posts again which is true in that Sassy takes a one track view of the problem

Prove otheriwse

Yipper, a certified FOOL and HYPOCRITE to boot; you'll rant/rave/preach proper debate etiquette and yet you can't be bothered with doing your very own reading to get up todate with all of the factual/links and ADULT DISCUSSION that you missed out on! Razz  
And I was wrong --- where you jumped into the fray was just at the point where members were sick & tired of Ragg's petulant rantings {that did look similar to yours from the recent posts} and the adults were smacking her knuckles quite rightly.  

That's where you chose to come barging in here---without taking the time to READ ~~~ and you have the nerve to admonish the rest of the members for their behavior Suspect
Well little boy, you certainly do have the nerve --- utter lack of adult behavior is still something you might grow into...but until then; do stop behaving like a toddler with dirty undies!  LMAO  
BTW --- I'm NOT YO MOMMA - go do your own reading or better yet hire someone to decipher the written words for you...your comprehension is lacking as well.

There was nothing "petulant" about my posts, and I was not ranting. Have you actually read your own posts at all? Please do so, and then you'll see that you're the king/queen of histrionic ranting. Wink

The "adults" were busy making silly jokes and throwing abuse around, so your idea of being grown up leaves a lot to be desired. It's a bit inappropriate for you to talk about "smacking knuckles" in a thread about physical abuse - don't you think? Shocked

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

   I haven't 'ganged up' on anyone here.   I don't see anyone ganging up.  Raggamuffin puts across a valid argument, others respond.  That's the nature of debate.   You, however, seem to revel in stirring the pot.

I think he's referring to your silly "moot" post. I was quite surprised at that one myself.

It was a reference to his over use of the word.   He chucks it around like a chimp chucking peanuts, along with accusations of other posters' immaturity.   It was no actual pop at you.
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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:37 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think he's referring to your silly "moot" post. I was quite surprised at that one myself.

It was a reference to his over use of the word.   He chucks it around like a chimp chucking peanuts, along with accusations of other posters' immaturity.   It was no actual pop at you.

It certainly looked like a pop at me.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:38 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

I think he's rubbing off on her  lol!

She'll be telling Sass it's 'moot'  next!

That is having a go

So more dishonesty from Horatiochild

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:47 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Found this a few years ago:

The Cycle of Violence

Phase 1: Tension building (In this phase there is usually tension building from the batterer/abuser and there is usually an argument)

Phase 2: Explosion (this is where the assault happens)

Phase 3: Honeymoon Phase (this is where the batterer/abuser apologizes for his behavior buying the victim gifts or flowers)  

The Five Types of Abuse

Emotional (killing pet, playing mind games)                                
Verbal (calling names)
Technological (GPS system /Face book sabotage)                                        
Sexual (forcing sex while sleep or based on the bible)
Physical (killing, punching, choking)

Profile of an Abuser/Batterer

Jealousy (questioning her constantly about whereabouts, and jealous of time she spends away from him).
Controlling behavior (I’ve had clients who’s victim couldn’t get a job, leave the house or bathe without his permission)
Isolation (Makes partner move away from family and friends so that she depends on him solely for support.)
Forces her to have sex against her will (I’ve had several clients who forced their partners to have sex with their friends and forces sex when she is asleep.)
Holds very rigid gender roles (Believes that her job is just to cater to him, he is the “king of the castle.”)  

Diagnosis of Abusers/Batterers

Antisocial Personality Disorder, (deceitfulness, repeatedly lying, use of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.)
Borderline Personality Disorder (a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships by alternating between extreme idealizations and devaluation.)
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Has a grandiose sense of self-importance.)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-reality-corner/201302/behind-the-veil-inside-the-mind-men-abuse

It takes a very "weak man" who's lost control of himself, to feel the need to control others who are vulnerable.


So when are they going to start looking at this very real problem in Muslim majority countries then Zack?

Except in Islam its endorsed to hit the wife and that there is no such thing as marital rape

So Islam makes and allows for a very weak man to be empowered

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:48 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Found this a few years ago:

The Cycle of Violence

Phase 1: Tension building (In this phase there is usually tension building from the batterer/abuser and there is usually an argument)

Phase 2: Explosion (this is where the assault happens)

Phase 3: Honeymoon Phase (this is where the batterer/abuser apologizes for his behavior buying the victim gifts or flowers)  

The Five Types of Abuse

Emotional (killing pet, playing mind games)                                
Verbal (calling names)
Technological (GPS system /Face book sabotage)                                        
Sexual (forcing sex while sleep or based on the bible)
Physical (killing, punching, choking)

Profile of an Abuser/Batterer

Jealousy (questioning her constantly about whereabouts, and jealous of time she spends away from him).
Controlling behavior (I’ve had clients who’s victim couldn’t get a job, leave the house or bathe without his permission)
Isolation (Makes partner move away from family and friends so that she depends on him solely for support.)
Forces her to have sex against her will (I’ve had several clients who forced their partners to have sex with their friends and forces sex when she is asleep.)
Holds very rigid gender roles (Believes that her job is just to cater to him, he is the “king of the castle.”)  

Diagnosis of Abusers/Batterers

Antisocial Personality Disorder, (deceitfulness, repeatedly lying, use of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.)
Borderline Personality Disorder (a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships by alternating between extreme idealizations and devaluation.)
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Has a grandiose sense of self-importance.)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-reality-corner/201302/behind-the-veil-inside-the-mind-men-abuse

It takes a very "weak man" who's lost control of himself, to feel the need to control others who are vulnerable.


All very true Zack, there is nearly always a pattern of behaviour and it is never shown until the victim is 'under the thumb', until then they normally couldn't be nicer or more attentive.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:50 pm

Oh no, not the Islam thing again.

The thing is, most women would want to dump a bloke who said she couldn't leave the house or who forced her to have sex with his mates. Why then would anyone stay after that point?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh no, not the Islam thing again.

The thing is, most women would want to dump a bloke who said she couldn't leave the house or who forced her to have sex with his mates. Why then would anyone stay after that point?

Its important though Rags

It went on for years in the Christian faiths also where it was covered up

Now at least we have laws, but again there is a huge problem in Islam with this and any of the abrahamic faiths

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:02 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


So when are they going to start looking at this very real problem in Muslim majority countries then Zack?

Except in Islam its endorsed to hit the wife and that there is no such thing as marital rape

So Islam makes and allows for a very weak man to be empowered

Complete rubbish, of course. Using a man written, English translation of the Quran.

And Christians and those of other religions still abuse women. They ALL abuse for the same reasons, regardless of faith.

But of course, just because I reply, you bring the Islam angle in every reply. Pathetic. Let's not pretend you give a shit about abused women.

Its not rubbish though as there is plenty of imans that teach this view

Just because you live in a western society that has laws against this, maybe you can point to the laws in many Muslim majority countries that has laws against marital rape and domestic violence then?

Many abuse because of the faith and what it teaches

I make no excuses for any here as there are all abhorrent in what they teach in regards to women being second to men

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:04 pm


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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:07 pm

Didge

Please grow up Joy you are not fooling anyone and as you never made any point on anything I posted, It shows you are nothing more than here to shit stir

Slapping. - Page 5 919144451 Oh, hail and bow down to the AUTHORITY on proper debate decorum >>>
Didge continued rants >>> Not until you act with some maturity and stop shit stirring and ganging up on posters
Can you not fight your own battles you need to jump on others to belittle people
That really shows how pathetic you are and childish

So many voices in his wee-little head:
First I'm Bee, then Beekeeper, then Wolfman, then back to Bee, now to 'JOY'; Slapping. - Page 5 1780941361 So many authors/former members names and so little time...but do carry on with your proving how we ADULTS should behave --- it's so very entertaining from such a wee-immature little boy! Slapping. - Page 5 More-drama-plz-smiley-emoticon

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:08 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Complete rubbish, of course. Using a man written, English translation of the Quran.

And Christians and those of other religions still abuse women. They ALL abuse for the same reasons, regardless of faith.

But of course, just because I reply, you bring the Islam angle in every reply. Pathetic. Let's not pretend you give a shit about abused women.

Don't forget to mention the atheists - just to provide some balance.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:10 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Its not rubbish though as there is plenty of imans that teach this view

Just because you live in a western society that has laws against this, maybe you can point to the laws in many Muslim majority countries that has laws against marital rape and domestic violence then?

Many abuse because of the faith and what it teaches

I make no excuses for any here as there are all abhorrent in what they teach in regards to women being second to men

Muslims don't get their Islam from Imams. Lol!

You're also guilty of the prejudice that Muslim women are weak and subservient. Laughable.

Women are abused in the same way, regardless of any religion or none. That's the point.


Ha ha ha

So you are saying that illiterate Muslims get their Islam from thin air now

So easy to expose your poor points

Again show me the laws in these countries

They are taught they can abuse women, as why do you think it happens to Muslim women then, who say and believe they can be abused?

Do you want evidence of this?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:11 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Lol! Well done. You've managed to find one imam.

No go listen to someone like Pat Robertson.

There are plenty

Show me the laws in Muslim majority countries that protect women from domestic violence?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:12 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge

Please grow up Joy you are not fooling anyone and as you never made any point on anything I posted, It shows you are nothing more than here to shit stir

Slapping. - Page 5 919144451 Oh, hail and bow down to the AUTHORITY on proper debate decorum >>>
Didge continued rants >>> Not until you act with some maturity and stop shit stirring and ganging up on posters
Can you not fight your own battles you need to jump on others to belittle people
That really shows how pathetic you are and childish

So many voices in his wee-little head:
First I'm Bee, then Beekeeper, then Wolfman, then back to Bee, now to 'JOY';  Slapping. - Page 5 1780941361   So many authors/former members names and so little time...but do carry on with your proving how we ADULTS should behave --- it's so very entertaining from such a wee-immature little boy!  Slapping. - Page 5 More-drama-plz-smiley-emoticon

No you are Joy, that is evident and still the childish out of work bum that you always were lol

Now best you move on chump, you are not fooling anyone

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:12 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Don't forget to mention the atheists - just to provide some balance.

But of course. And that's the point. Faith or lack of, is irrelevant to the abuser. I'm glad you get it. It's just Didge.


Seems you dont get it




23 rapes and 304 gang rapes were recorded last year. At least one woman a day was killed in the name of honor. Most women are too fearful to report sexual violence. But not all.


RACHI, Pakistan (AP) — Kainat Soomro was 13 years old and on her way to buy a toy for her newborn niece when three men kidnapped her, held her for several days and repeatedly raped her. Eight years later, she is still battling for justice. She sits on a steel-framed bed in her parents’ three-bedroom home, and holds her blue shawl tight around her body. When she describes the horror of her captivity, her voice is barely a whisper, but it gains strength when she talks of the fight she has been waging: going to Pakistan’s courts, holding protests, rejecting the rulings of the traditional Jirga council, taking on the powerful landlord and politician who she says are protecting her attackers.

The Associated Press does not usually identify victims of sexual abuse, but Kainat has gone public with her case. Her battle for justice has inspired an award-winning 2014 movie, “Outlawed in Pakistan.” Yet Kainat’s family has paid a high price for her bravery. One sister remains unmarried and another was divorced because her in-laws were ashamed to be associated with Kainat. In 2010, her brother was killed over his sister’s refusal to stay silent. Clutching a gold-framed picture of his son, Ghulam Nabi Soomro spat out words of condemnation. “They know about our troubles thousands of miles away but here in the next street no-one is helping us get justice,” he said.

In Pakistan, women are often too fearful to report sexual violence, yet the independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan recorded 423 rapes and 304 gang rapes last year. It also said that last year at least one woman a day was killed in the name of honor — murdered for allegedly bringing shame on the family.



In this photo taken on Jan. 26, 2016, Kainaat Soomro weeps during an interview with The Associated Press in Karachi, Pakistan. She was 13 years old and on her way to buy a toy for her newborn niece when three men kidnapped her, held her for several days and repeatedly raped her. Eight years later, she is still battling for justice. (AP Photo/Shakil Adil)


Each year a gamut of promises is made for the protection and development of women, but (they) remain unfulfilled by the year-end,” the commission wrote in its 2014 annual report. Attackers are rarely jailed. Human rights workers say the police often refuse to even register a case involving attacks against women, and the powerful and rich are immune. The groups trying to advance women’s rights in Pakistan’s deeply traditional patriarchal society suffered a painful blow last month when the national parliament refused to pass laws banning child marriage. The parliament buckled to the dictates of the Islamic Ideology Council, a religiously right-wing advisory group with no legal authority. The same body has also said that taking DNA tests to identify a suspected rapist is against Islam.

“Women’s groups have been demanding that the Islamic Ideology Council be disbanded,” says Uzma Noorani, an activist who also operates a women’s shelter in Pakistan’s port city of Karachi. She says rights advocates are fighting a war for change and occasionally battles are won. Southern Sindh province, of which Karachi is the capital, has passed legislation aimed at protecting women and banning underage marriages. But then the war begins again as they fight to convince police and judges to register cases and implement the laws, and to take authority away from the Islamic Ideology Council and other hard-line groups. “When you have a law it is like a weapon, when you need it you can use it,” says one outspoken member of Sindh’s legislature, Mahtab Akbar Rashdi.


In this photo taken on Jan. 27, 2016, Pakistani lawmaker Mahtab Akbar Rashdi talks to the Associated Press in Karachi, Pakistan. Rashdi said the federal government by refusing to ban underage marriages is pandering to those who adhere to a narrow and restrictive interpretation of Islam and mostly target women. (AP Photo/Shakil Adil)

She says that the national government is pandering to those who adhere to a narrow and restrictive view of Islam, which mostly targets women. “It’s as if women for them are the biggest problem in Islam,” she says of the Islamic Ideology Council. One women’s shelter in Karachi, surrounded by two walls and protected by guards, is home to around 40 women. Some have fled abusive husbands, some have been raped, others are being hunted down by families for choosing love. When Azra was 18, her family sold her for $5,000 to an older man who passed her around to strangers. She ran away, and now she is fighting for a divorce and too afraid to leave the shelter’s walls. The court have yet to decide on her case and Azra — who is just 20 — wonders where she will go when the time comes to leave the shelter.

Sidra Kanwal had left her abusive husband and moved back in with her mother when another man proposed to her. The man refused to take no for an answer. He pestered her and harassed her. And then one day he told her that if couldn’t have her, no one could, and threw acid in her face. The months afterward were horrific. Her poverty meant doctors paid her little heed. One sent her home with only burn cream, but the pain and swelling were unbearable. Her nostrils had seared together. She returned to hospital and again, after three days, they sent her home.
Her four-year-old son refused to come to her after her attack. “He didn’t recognize me. My face scared him,” she says, pulling her headscarf over her twisted mouth and nose.

Nightmares haunt her sleep. Each time she closes her eyes, his face appears. Sometimes he is hitting her, throwing more acid, pounding her. If her terror does not waken her, the small tube that runs between her burnt nostrils does. Without it, she struggles to breathe.
It was not until she went to court that Noorani, the women’s rights activist, saw her and she received treatment. According to the Human Rights Commission, 55 acid attacks took place in Pakistan last year. To date, only 17 arrests have been made. Unlike Kainat or Azra, Sidra’s attacker is in jail, but his family has been embraced by the neighbors. The family jeers at her, and the neighbors applaud. Sidra, with her painfully disfigured face, is the outcast.


http://www.timesofisrael.com/pakistani-women-risk-everything-to-fight-for-their-rights/


A very brave lady.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:14 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Complete rubbish, of course. Using a man written, English translation of the Quran.

And Christians and those of other religions still abuse women. They ALL abuse for the same reasons, regardless of faith.

But of course, just because I reply, you bring the Islam angle in every reply. Pathetic. Let's not pretend you give a shit about abused women.

Don't forget to mention the atheists - just to provide some balance.

I am sure there are atheists, but not many, as how many atheists are in jail for domestic violence

Then compare that to how many are religious


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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:15 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Didge

Please grow up Joy you are not fooling anyone and as you never made any point on anything I posted, It shows you are nothing more than here to shit stir

Slapping. - Page 5 919144451 Oh, hail and bow down to the AUTHORITY on proper debate decorum >>>
Didge continued rants >>> Not until you act with some maturity and stop shit stirring and ganging up on posters
Can you not fight your own battles you need to jump on others to belittle people
That really shows how pathetic you are and childish

So many voices in his wee-little head:
First I'm Bee, then Beekeeper, then Wolfman, then back to Bee, now to 'JOY';  Slapping. - Page 5 1780941361   So many authors/former members names and so little time...but do carry on with your proving how we ADULTS should behave --- it's so very entertaining from such a wee-immature little boy!  Slapping. - Page 5 More-drama-plz-smiley-emoticon


Re the 'good night and good morning' thread.  You really know about the middle of America for someone who the Dodgy one thinks lives in Australia or Scotland lol

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:16 pm

Also for Zack to read

Violence Against Women and the Role of Religion

Rev. Dr. Marie Fortune and Rabbi Cindy Enger

Because religion is a personal and institutional reality in the lives of the majority of the population in the U.S., it is no surprise that religious teaching and affiliation provide a significant context for many women as they address experiences of victimization. Through texts, traditions, teachings, and doctrine, religious communities and institutions convey values and belief systems to their members. In addition, members often have direct support or counseling relationships with religious leaders who may provide guidance or instruction. Religious texts and teachings can serve as resources to assist those who have experienced abuse in finding safety and in the process of healing. Yet, religion also can be misused to excuse or condone abusive behavior. In the context of violence against women, religious teachings and communities will play a role; they will never be neutral.

At the outset, it is important to acknowledge the tremendous diversity of beliefs, teachings, and traditions that exist among the many religions of the world. Within pluralistic societies such as North America, we need to be aware of Roman Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Orthodox Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Native American or First Nations beliefs and practices, as well as many others. In addition, within any one particular religion, there may exist various denominations, movements or traditions, with their own distinct institutions, cultures and teachings. A comprehensive exploration of the relationship between religion and violence against women is beyond the scope of this article. 1

Yet, there are some basic issues and questions, which confront religiously identified women who have experienced abuse. It is our intention to address some of these areas of concern. Stated simply, the reality is that regardless of the particular religious affiliation, alongside the trauma of violence, a majority of women will be dealing with some aspect of religious beliefs and teachings which will serve either as a resource or a roadblock (Fortune, 1987).

The task for both religious and secular leadership is twofold: 1) to recognize that religious beliefs, texts, and teachings can serve both as roadblocks and as resources for victims of violence and 2) to deepen our examination of religious texts and teachings and explore new interpretations so that we minimize the roadblocks and maximize the resources for women. No woman should ever be forced to choose between safety and her religious community or tradition. She should be able to access the resources of both community-based advocacy and shelter and faith-based support and counsel. For her to do so, she needs these two resources to work collaboratively so that they can provide consistent advocacy and support for victims and survivors and participate in the process of holding perpetrators accountable.

Deconstructing and Reconstructing: What to do with Religious Traditions?
Among the many world religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam for example, incorporate beliefs and practices as well as cultures that vary greatly in their impact on women who are victims of violence. We will use these three major world religions common in North America to illustrate the challenges that religion presents for victims of sexual and domestic violence.

Christianity as Roadblock and Resource. Both the Hebrew Bible and Christian Scriptures contain story after story of violence against women: e.g. Dinah (Genesis 34), Tamar (2 Samuel 13), the Levite's concubine (Judges 19), Jephthah's daughter (Judges 11), Vashti (Esther 1), Suzannah (Daniel 13), and probably the persistent widow in Luke's Gospel (Luke 18) 2 . Later Christian texts also condone male violence against women and the domination of women. For example, the right of chastisement was the enforcer of women's subordination in marriage. In the "Rules of Marriage" compiled by Friar Cherubino in the 15 th century (Bussert, 1986) we find the careful instruction to a husband to first reprimand his wife; "And if this still doesn't work . . . take up a stick and beat her soundly . . . for it is better to punish the body and correct the soul than to damage the soul and spare the body" (p. 13).

Unfortunately, this doctrine has been viewed as consistent with scriptural passages interpreted to confirm male dominance over women: "Wives be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Savior. Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands" (Ephesians 5.22-24 NRSV). Either by its silence or its instruction, the church has too often communicated to battered women that they should stay in abusive relationships, try to be better wives, and "forgive and forget." To batterers, it has communicated that their efforts to control their wives or girlfriends are justified because women are to be subject to men in all things. They have been permitted to "discipline" their wives and their children all for the "good of the family." Christian history is filled with examples of church leaders justifying abuse of women by men. Church fathers like Martin Luther unapologetically described their own physical violence towards their wives (Smith, 1911).

In dealing with domestic violence, however, the Christian scriptural justifications for women remaining in abusive relationships (subordination in marriage, e.g. Ephesians 5:20; prohibition of divorce, e.g. Malachi 2:13-16) must be considered in the fuller context of ethics, theology, and doctrine. Prooftexting (the selective use of a text, usually out of context, to support one's position) is a common ploy by those who seek to simply justify their actions. It is not difficult to prooftext a man's prerogative to dominate and control a woman within patriarchal western religious traditions. But it nonetheless does not represent the whole story.

For example, in Jesus' ministry, he teaches: "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly" (John 10:10, NRSV). Victimization is never God's will but rather fullness of life. Jesus understood his ministry "to proclaim release to the captives . . ." (Luke 4:18 quoting Isaiah 61, NRSV). He told the story of the Good Samaritan to emphasize our responsibility to stop and care for the victim. These are fundamental teachings through which other passages must be interpreted in Christianity.

Judaism as Roadblock and Resource. Both the family and the home have been central to Jewish religious and cultural life. Shalom bayit (peace in the home) is an important Jewish value; it refers to an ideal state--a harmonious home in which all who dwell within are nurtured and respected. Yet the concept of shalom bayit has been misused by some who place on women the sole responsibility for maintaining peace in the home and even has been used to pressure women to remain in or return to homes in which they have been the victims of abuse. Shalom bayit as a value and ideal to be worked towards should not be confused with the "myth of the perfect Jewish family," in which abuse as well as other problems have been covered up and seen as sources of shame.

In addition, although shalom bayit is an important Jewish value, it does not have priority over taking action to save a life. Judaism recognizes all human beings, male and female, as created b'tzelem elohim (in the image of God) (see Genesis 1:27). Pikuach nefesh (taking action to save a life) is of the utmost importance in Jewish tradition. The Talmud teaches that "a person who saves a life is as one who has saved an entire world" (Talmud, Sanhedrin 37a). Judaism serves as a resource for women who have experienced abuse when pikuach nefesh is taught and remembered to be a sacred obligation, taking precedence over shalom bayit, particularly when the home is not a place of peace, but rather a place in which violence is being perpetrated.

Islam as Roadblock and Resource. Within Islam, we also find texts and interpretations of texts that have been used by abusive men to justify their behavior. According to Muslim scholar and activist Sharifa Alkhateeb (1999):

The most abused verse is ayah 34 of Surah four: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah gave more to the one than the other, and because they support them from their means. So devout women are extremely careful and attentive in guarding what cannot be seen in that which Allah is extremely careful and attentive in guarding. Concerning women whose rebellious disloyalty (nusbooz) you fear, admonish them, then refuse to share their beds, then hit them; but if they become obedient, do not seek means of annoyance against them. For Allah is Most High, Great" (pp. 54-55).

Alkhateeb (1999) argues that this passage instructs Muslim men to financially and physically protect women (given their greater physical strength) and instructs Muslim women to guard their fidelity in obedience to Allah. She points out that to translate the word "to hit" contradicts the explicit teachings of the Prophet:

Some translators assert that it is incorrect to translate the word "hit" at all, based on the Prophet's lifelong abhorrence of hitting -- found in the hadith collections of Abu Daud, Nasa'I, Ibn Hibban, and Bayhaqi, and in his instruction in his last sermon where he restricted striking to a light tap ( gbayr mubarrih - without causing pain) only if the wife has become guilty of nusbooz , obvious immoral conduct (p. 55).

Then Alkhateeb (1999) concludes:

The wording of this verse emphasizes the woman's obedience to Allah's desires, and not to those of another human being, but those who misinterpret this verse would assign men the duty of being eternal surveillance police over their wives. . . In short, this verse has been used as a tool of control and abuse completely opposed to the Islamic foundation of marriage and family (p. 55).

In contrast, Alkhateeb (1999) points out that in the Qur'an, the marital relationship specifically is mandated to be one of "mutual kindness and mercy (30:21; 9:71)" (p. 53). Muslim women keep their own names when they marry and have a right to a marriage contract in which they can specify their expectations of fair treatment.

No human being has ultimate authority over women. . . . Islam actually requires kindness, politeness, consideration, gentleness, respect and general goodness to women. . . . The current unjust practices to women represent ignorance of the religion rather than an example of the religion (Alkhateeb, 2003, pp. 7-Cool.

In other words, the resources are many to challenge the roadblocks.

Transforming Roadblocks into Resources. Early in the development of religious responses to sexual and domestic violence, Bussert (1986) clearly stated the agenda: "We need . . . to begin articulating a faith that will provide women with resources for strength rather than resources for endurance. We must articulate a theology of empowerment rather than a theology of passive endurance" (p. 65). This needed approach requires a critique (or deconstruction) of the roadblocks that have been created by patriarchal interpretations of religious teachings, and the development (or reconstruction) of useful resources that empower victims and survivors to address their experiences.

Although Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all state as a core value the preservation of marriage and the family, an underlying purpose behind the application of texts and teachings on marriage and family often has been the preservation of male control of women and children within a patriarchal system. At times, this has come at the expense of women's safety. Thus we have seen centuries of "religion in service to patriarchy" rather than serving as a challenge to the dominant social norms which have perpetuated violence against women.


http://www.vawnet.org/applied-research-papers/print-document.php?doc_id=411

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:17 pm

sassy wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:

Slapping. - Page 5 919144451 Oh, hail and bow down to the AUTHORITY on proper debate decorum >>>


So many voices in his wee-little head:
First I'm Bee, then Beekeeper, then Wolfman, then back to Bee, now to 'JOY';  Slapping. - Page 5 1780941361   So many authors/former members names and so little time...but do carry on with your proving how we ADULTS should behave --- it's so very entertaining from such a wee-immature little boy!  Slapping. - Page 5 More-drama-plz-smiley-emoticon


Re the 'good night and good morning' thread.  You really know about the middle of America for someone who the Dodgy one thinks lives in Australia or Scotland lol

He does not know that much, no more than one can easily get offline lol

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:19 pm

Interestingly, JD accused Horatio of being me at first.

Just thought I'd throw that in. lol!

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