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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

As an adult have you ever slapped anyone or been slapped?

Is it still more acceptable for a woman to slap a man than a man to slap a woman?

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:12 pm

You seem impervious to the method that you've approached this topic and now your imperial attitude about >>>
"Here's my massive RESUME and that make 'ME' all that more capable of sounding more knowledgeable about this entire DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ISSUE!"

And you - all; {lacking any thing similar to all of 'MY' superior education and career} just pale in comparison and should Slapping. - Page 3 919144451 to my every mental dribble that I've shared here with you.

Hmmm, just can't fathom how you manage to stumble through life with such a pedestal shoved up your back side.
I've known and worked with some awesome legal minds and I've had the exhausting times that I've had to terminate some higher educated {top of their law degree class} lawyers because they were just bottom feeders that felt so superior but couldn't DO THEIR JOBS ADEQUATELY. Slapping. - Page 3 2787774761 If all you have left for moving this conversation forward is your educational/career history then it's pretty much over - stick a fork it in it - DONE!
Now the personal assassinations will commence because you've backed your own arse into a corner of your own making >>> "And yet...it's so much better than your resume. You can't even organize your thoughts"

Congrats - thread/discussion terminated for me! I'll roll up all of my petty/sorry arsed degrees and just meander off to happier places - Ta-Ta Slapping. - Page 3 1716015268

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:19 pm

aspca4ever wrote:You seem impervious to the method that you've approached this topic and now your imperial attitude about >>>
"Here's my massive RESUME and that make 'ME' all that more capable of sounding more knowledgeable about this entire DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ISSUE!"

And you - all; {lacking any thing similar to all of 'MY' superior education and career} just pale in comparison and should Slapping. - Page 3 919144451 to my every mental dribble that I've shared here with you.

Hmmm, just can't fathom how you manage to stumble through life with such a pedestal shoved up your back side.
I've known and worked with some awesome legal minds and I've had the exhausting times that I've had to terminate some higher educated {top of their law degree class} lawyers because they were just bottom feeders that felt so superior but couldn't DO THEIR JOBS ADEQUATELY.  Slapping. - Page 3 2787774761   If all you have left for moving this conversation forward is your educational/career history then it's pretty much over - stick a fork it in it - DONE!  
Now the personal assassinations will commence because you've backed your own arse into a corner of your own making >>> "And yet...it's so much better than your resume. You can't even organize your thoughts"

Congrats - thread/discussion terminated for me!  I'll roll up all of my petty/sorry arsed degrees and just meander off to happier places - Ta-Ta Slapping. - Page 3 1716015268

I thought so...there was a little too much emotion wrapped up in your responses. Forget it, I don't want to know.

But as I said to Victor, this thread is rapidly turning into something other than the simple question asked by the OP.

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Post by Syl on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Don't speak for all women. I haven't read a lot of posts in this thread because it all got a bit heavy, and I don't really get why people don't just dump someone who beats them up.

You are right.  From what I've seen, I can't include you...certainly others, as well.

What you are suggesting--"why people don't just dump someone who beats them up"--is exactly what I suggested, and which started all this emotional response.

Treating physical abuse like a disease to be expunged is the only way to solve the problem.  That goes for anyone exhibiting the least symptom, because the disease is progressive.  One physical act almost always invites another.  For that reason, any physical act would be symptomatic and should be grounds for terminating the relationship.

You know when you read of men killing their kids.....is it not usually to get back at the woman who has dumped them?
When you read of the 2 women a week who are murdered by their partners or ex partners in England and Wales....do you not think that many of those women would still be alive if they had been content to stay the punch bag of their abusive partners?
Men kill their partners either because the beatings have gone too far or the women are trying to get out of the relationship.

Your sentence is too black and white and lacks empathy.
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Post by Syl on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:You seem impervious to the method that you've approached this topic and now your imperial attitude about >>>
"Here's my massive RESUME and that make 'ME' all that more capable of sounding more knowledgeable about this entire DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ISSUE!"

And you - all; {lacking any thing similar to all of 'MY' superior education and career} just pale in comparison and should Slapping. - Page 3 919144451 to my every mental dribble that I've shared here with you.

Hmmm, just can't fathom how you manage to stumble through life with such a pedestal shoved up your back side.
I've known and worked with some awesome legal minds and I've had the exhausting times that I've had to terminate some higher educated {top of their law degree class} lawyers because they were just bottom feeders that felt so superior but couldn't DO THEIR JOBS ADEQUATELY.  Slapping. - Page 3 2787774761   If all you have left for moving this conversation forward is your educational/career history then it's pretty much over - stick a fork it in it - DONE!  
Now the personal assassinations will commence because you've backed your own arse into a corner of your own making >>> "And yet...it's so much better than your resume. You can't even organize your thoughts"

Congrats - thread/discussion terminated for me!  I'll roll up all of my petty/sorry arsed degrees and just meander off to happier places - Ta-Ta Slapping. - Page 3 1716015268

I thought so...there was a little too much emotion wrapped up in your responses.  Forget it, I don't want to know.

But as I said to Victor, this thread is rapidly turning into something other than the simple question asked by the OP.
It did start off simply.

Maybe when people are speaking personally from the heart and some are replying in a detached manner from the head the outcome is inevitable.
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:02 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You are right.  From what I've seen, I can't include you...certainly others, as well.

What you are suggesting--"why people don't just dump someone who beats them up"--is exactly what I suggested, and which started all this emotional response.

Treating physical abuse like a disease to be expunged is the only way to solve the problem.  That goes for anyone exhibiting the least symptom, because the disease is progressive.  One physical act almost always invites another.  For that reason, any physical act would be symptomatic and should be grounds for terminating the relationship.

You know when you read of men killing their kids.....is it not usually to get back at the woman who has dumped them?
When you read of the 2 women a week who are murdered by their partners or ex partners in England and Wales....do you not think that many of those women would still be alive if they had been content to stay the punch bag of their abusive partners?
Men kill their partners either because the beatings have gone too far or the women are trying to get out of the relationship.

Your sentence is too black and white and lacks empathy.

Oh?  And why do women kill their own children?  Andrea Yeats drown her five children in the bathtub one morning, and they chalked it up to postpartum depression. Five kids--five live, innocent little human beings--and she got off on an insanity defense!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates  

Sometimes we ask too many questions. We are too understanding.  Violence in a domestic situation is one of those times.  If there is even a hint of violence--verbal abuse and passive-aggressive shenanigans might be included as well--one should get out. When you are in the middle, you can't waste time overthinking the issue.  There are plenty of others to pair with...isolate and excise the violent ones.

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Normal is broken.

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Post by eddie on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:08 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:You seem impervious to the method that you've approached this topic and now your imperial attitude about >>>
"Here's my massive RESUME and that make 'ME' all that more capable of sounding more knowledgeable about this entire DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ISSUE!"

And you - all; {lacking any thing similar to all of 'MY' superior education and career} just pale in comparison and should Slapping. - Page 3 919144451 to my every mental dribble that I've shared here with you.

Hmmm, just can't fathom how you manage to stumble through life with such a pedestal shoved up your back side.
I've known and worked with some awesome legal minds and I've had the exhausting times that I've had to terminate some higher educated {top of their law degree class} lawyers because they were just bottom feeders that felt so superior but couldn't DO THEIR JOBS ADEQUATELY.  Slapping. - Page 3 2787774761   If all you have left for moving this conversation forward is your educational/career history then it's pretty much over - stick a fork it in it - DONE!  
Now the personal assassinations will commence because you've backed your own arse into a corner of your own making >>> "And yet...it's so much better than your resume. You can't even organize your thoughts"

Congrats - thread/discussion terminated for me!  I'll roll up all of my petty/sorry arsed degrees and just meander off to happier places - Ta-Ta Slapping. - Page 3 1716015268

I thought so...there was a little too much emotion wrapped up in your responses.  Forget it, I don't want to know.

But as I said to Victor, this thread is rapidly turning into something other than the simple question asked by the OP.
It did start off simply.

Maybe when people are speaking personally from the heart and some are replying in a detached manner from the head the outcome is inevitable.

Spot on
If you haven't experienced something personally then it's very hard to comment on it from a rounded and actual, point of view

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:09 pm

I think that some of the men who kill their children do so because those children have been taken away from them, and they lose their minds. I'm not excusing it, but I think it's unfair to imply that those men are normally violent and that the woman has left them because they were beaten up.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:09 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:
It did start off simply.

Maybe when people are speaking personally from the heart and some are replying in a detached manner from the head the outcome is inevitable.

Spot on
If you haven't experienced something personally then it's very hard to comment on it from a rounded and actual, point of view

That doesn't usually count for anything on here - there are people spouting off all over the place about things they haven't experienced themselves.

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Post by eddie on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:
It did start off simply.

Maybe when people are speaking personally from the heart and some are replying in a detached manner from the head the outcome is inevitable.

Spot on
If you haven't experienced something personally then it's very hard to comment on it from a rounded and actual, point of view

That doesn't usually count for anything on here - there are people spouting off all over the place about things they haven't experienced themselves.

You're right of course but I do try and always say, "IF this had happened to me then I'd..."

I don't think you can really know a person's situation until you've walked there in that person's shoes

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Post by Syl on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

You know when you read of men killing their kids.....is it not usually to get back at the woman who has dumped them?
When you read of the 2 women a week who are murdered by their partners or ex partners in England and Wales....do you not think that many of those women would still be alive if they had been content to stay the punch bag of their abusive partners?
Men kill their partners either because the beatings have gone too far or the women are trying to get out of the relationship.

Your sentence is too black and white and lacks empathy.

Oh?  And why do women kill their own children?  Andrea Yeats drown her five children in the bathtub one morning, and they chalked it up to postpartum depression.  Five kids--five live, innocent little human beings--and she got off on an insanity defense!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates  

Sometimes we ask too many questions.  We are too understanding.  Violence in a domestic situation is one of those times.  If there is even a hint of violence--verbal abuse and passive-aggressive shenanigans might be included as well--one should get out.  When you are in the middle, you can't waste time overthinking the issue.  There are plenty of others to pair with...isolate and excise the violent ones.

Anyone who kills their own children has to be out of their minds....either through hate, despair...insanity, revenge, who knows, in every case the poor kids are dead and nothing can bring them back...no one is excusing anyone, but cases have been studied and show a pattern...you should know this better than most here..

Many women who kill their kids have asked for help repeatedly beforehand.

One leading psychiatrist who had dealt with dozens of cases where parents kill their kids said in his experience women kill their kids out of love not hate.
Obviously this is too cut and dried, but many women do kill their children out of despair because they think they are suffering....or they are going to kill themselves and want to take their children with them because they think the kids will be better off.

Many men who kill, wipe out the whole family, or kill the children to get back at the  woman he believes has ruined his life.......not long ago there seemed to be a spate of dads who killed their kids to wreak revenge on their exes.
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:

Spot on
If you haven't experienced something personally then it's very hard to comment on it from a rounded and actual, point of view

That doesn't usually count for anything on here - there are people spouting off all over the place about things they haven't experienced themselves.

And...those people vote. So experience with it personally is not exactly relevant. To be sure, it gives insight. But everyone has some insight, somewhere.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:49 pm

Quill, during the course of this thread you have shown yourself to be at best ignorant, and at worst an apologist for abuse.  You started by saying that abuse normally starts with the woman doing something that makes the man hit her, or the other way round.  That is not only victim blaming, it flies in the face of every study undertaken and every bit of evidence there is. 

I apologise in advance Victor, because I am going to talk about men abusing women, and that does not mean that I in any way either condone or minimise the pain caused when it is the other way round.  It is simply that I have been involved in helping women who have been abused and know the FACTS about it, the way it starts and psychology employed.  I have to admit that I don't know about the psychology of women who abuse men.

Lets start right at the very beginning.  Men who are abusive pick out their victim and groom them.  They pick on a woman who has a vunerability.  It might be obvious, like a lack of confidence or a disability, but it might not be.  The man for example could find out that the women comes from a troubled childhood, or simply that she wants to be loved.  From then on the grooming starts.  To begin with he is wonderful to her.  Women will often say 'he swept me off my feet', 'he couldn't do enough for me', 'he was so kind and considerate'.   Then comes the next stage.  Once the woman is dependent emotionally he will start cutting her off from friends and family.  A favourity ploy is 'oh but we only need each other, we don't need them' and so she becomes more dependent, emotionally and socially.  Often they will then start holding on to money - 'you don't go out, you don't need money'.   It is normally at this point that violence starts.  Not much to begin with, and the women is told she caused it 'my tea was horrible' 'my shirt was creased'.   Many men are so controlled that they keep it at this level until she has children, because women who have children are desperate to make sure they have a father and family for them, that's a psychological imprint that very few can get away from.  Then there is the undermining 'you'd never survive by yourself' 'who'd want you' etc etc.  By the time the real violence starts the woman no long believes she is capable of surviving by herself and doesn't have the confidence or finances to leave, and if it looks like she just might find them, then the threats start, 'I'll kill you' 'I'll kill the kids' 'You'll never get away from me'.


Years ago, when I first went back to work when my children were teenagers I worked as a PA for a Lloyds Underwriter in Colchester.  At the interview nobody told me how many PAs he had gone through.  Also working there was his wife, who was also an underwriter and a girl who was her secretary.   In a very short time I realised he was not only abusive, but nuts, and his wife was terrified of him.  I came in the final day I worked there and she was sat there trembling, with a black eye.  I managed to pretend that she had a meeting with another firm and got her out to talk to, to try and persuade her to leave, but I couldn't.  They had two horses who she absolutely adored, and he had told her that if she left  he would take a knife to the horses and torture and killl them in front of her very slowly.  She had no proof of this to take to the police and would not even think of leaving.  It turned out, that wasn't the worst thing he had done.  He had a little girl from a previous marriage (she'd managed to get away from him, but the courts had given him joint access).  He'd had the little girl for the weekend (she was 4), she made a noise and a mess and he was in a furious temper.  He had made the wife I was talking to go with him while he drove the little girl home.  He delliberately stopped on the opposite side of the road to the house and told the little girl to run home.  She did, straight in front of a car, and was killed.  He then threatened the horses to get his wife to say it was an accident.  I will never forget her face when she told me, the burden she was carrying and the fact I couldn't get her to leave.  I even offered to help her get the horses out while he was at work, but she was terrified he would find out.

I left that day, with no notice, but I often worry what happened to her, all those years ago.

No Quill, victims don't cause their abuse and they can't just 'walk away', the abuser has made sure the trap is sprung long before the violence starts.

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Post by eddie on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:07 pm

Green sassy. Good post.

One thing I will add though, is that I know lots of very strong and confident women, who get hit and slapped and abused.

It isn't always because a woman is seen as "weak".
Men will,often abuse strong women becasue they can't "control her" and are afraid of losing her. So they become over-dominant and act our of fear which turns them nasty.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:14 pm

But they are the ones that normally manage in the end to get away, because in their case the men are doing it out of weakness, as you have pointed out and I agree, it certainly happens.  I'm talking about the ones who stay.  In the case of the wife I talked about, she had money, she was confident, she could lecture to a room, make decisions about millions of pounds, but her weakness was her horses.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:15 pm

You'd at least think about moving the horses and telling the police. A child died FFS.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:16 pm

Yes Rags, that's exactly what you or I would automatically think of doing, but she was terrified of him, and people who are terrified don't think straight.

It was as much as I could do to walk back in to pick up my things, I wanted to kill him, but I knew if I said anything, she would be the one hurt, so you see, he did the same thing to me.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:20 pm

Sorry, but some people need to grow a spine. If she thought that he deliberately sent the child into the traffic, she is assisting an offender.

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Post by eddie on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:23 pm

I must admit, I find it hard to get my head around women who stay after a child is harmed or dies.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:28 pm

Me too, but I think until you have been manipulated like that, you just don't know.  If someone had said to me I would hear that and not go straight to the police I would not have believed them, but the thought of her being harmed stopped me, so who knows.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:30 pm

Well if she'd told the police, and then she'd been harmed, or the horses, he would have been arrested. It sounds like she liked her lifestyle too much to give it up.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:40 pm

OFFS Rags, NO, she was terrified for herself but mostly for her horses, he had her absolutely convinced that whatever she did he'd find her and them and destroy them.    And she had the financial means to have the same lifestyle with or which him.  Have you any idea what a Lloyds underwriter makes?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:46 pm

sassy wrote:OFFS Rags, NO, she was terrified for herself but mostly for her horses, he had her absolutely convinced that whatever she did he'd find her and them and destroy them.    And she had the financial means to have the same lifestyle with or which him.  Have you any idea what a Lloyds underwriter makes?

So she moves the horses FFS! Then she goes to the police, and she tells them everything. She let a child die and said fuck all. I don't buy this story.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:04 pm

She goes to the police and she tells them everything? And then what.? Her word against his, absolutely no evidence, the police would have told her to go away. This was back in the late 70s and we still have police saying lessons have been learnt when yet another woman and her children die after they have asked for police help over and over again.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:05 pm

Here's the thing about all of this:
We started out discussing 'SLAP OR NOT TO SLAP' that was the question and as with all things gender specific the POV's are going to be diverse!
The reasoning & rational spreads over a wide range of mental health/family history of abuse excuses/prescription drug-alcohol-illegal drugs/job pressures {why the highest percentage of violence is perpetrated by those hired to protect & serve}...and as with the many-many times we provided the links/data/information about how abuse occurs and the grooming process that takes place from the perpetrator {rarely ever happens over night} once the pattern starts --- it's really rare that the female victim leaves the horror and more often then not when she does --- she's killed for her betrayal!

But those are just 'FACTS' and facts often get tossed to the winds when the reader doesn't want to accept that those ABUSE NUMBERS ARE COMPILED FROM SOMEWHERE --- they just don't get made up for sh*ts and grins!!!
The absolute most dangerous time for any battered human is when they:
a.) reported
b.) obtained a restraining order
c.) relocated in the dark of night to an abuse center - ran and didn't leave a forwarding address/phone #
d.) had any expectations of having a solid support system from the local police/law enforcement

Psychologist & Physiologist
Psychiatrists are medical doctors (MDs) who graduate from medical school, have a year of medical internship, and have 3 years of residency in the assessment and treatment of mental health disorders.

Psychologists have a doctoral degree in an area of psychology, the study of the mind and human behavior. They’re not medical doctors. A psychologist can have a PhD in philosophy or a PsyD in clinical or counseling psychology. Typically, they do 1-2 years of internship. Unlike psychiatrists, psychologists are also trained in giving psychological tests (like IQ tests or personality tests).

Because of their medical training, psychiatrists can prescribe medication -- probably the most commonly known distinction between the two fields. But a few states allow psychologists to prescribe a limited number of psychiatric medications if they’ve taken a course in psychopharmacology.

And with the research that our medical people have been doing into the inner working parts of the brain {they just discovered where the area is that determines our sexual preferences}...all of the work & research that we've funded for Alzheimer's prevention &/or cure has netted some amazing discoveries!
And we've come a long-long way from those mental health books written by Dr. Freud and his heroin/LSD induced BS {rat in the maze type of redundant testing} that we have a better idea of what a full blown spectrum blood work up - along with a oral history of human social interactions within the family nucleus and the visual/hearing & physical abuse applied to us during our formative years...we have a full cohesive image of what each violent offender needs and what they absolutely DO NOT NEED is having more repressive prescription drugs thrown at them.  

Yes, indeed - women that murder their own children; often due to those voices that they are hearing or Postpartum depression (PPD) a horrific emotional guilt ridden problem! That only recently has been given any attention!  Before {aprox. 1990's} women were told to 'get over it' or 'it's all in your head' or 'here's a prescription for Prozac {or something similar} and sent home to just 'DEAL WITH IT'.  

18 yrs...it took my older sister 18yrs of suffering every kind of abuse known to be used against and to her before she finally got the courage to reach out to someone else beside me.  Called and obtained a restraining order - wasn't enforced; called the abuse shelter - it was full.  Hubby was arrested & booked on another violation and kept in the jail - bailed out by another daughter from a previous marriage - he arrived at my sisters home at midnight and shot his way into the home; after telling his own daughter what he was going to do - told the discharge officer what he was going to do and NOT ONE OF THOSE UNIFORMED OFFICERS MADE ANY ATTEMPT TO WARN MY SISTER AND HER 6 CHILDREN.  

Yipper...it does take a whole butt load of degrees to see that this has been a problem that just hasn't had anything but to shove it under the rug. The years that it's taken to change our way of dealing with domestic violence and then add into that reluctance with some budget cuts and mental health facilities that have been closed down {circa Ronnie Reagan era} has left all of us with little to zero resources and places to get help.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:09 pm

aspca4ever wrote:Here's the thing about all of this:
We started out discussing 'SLAP OR NOT TO SLAP' that was the question and as with all things gender specific the POV's are going to be diverse!
The reasoning & rational spreads over a wide range of mental health/family history of abuse excuses/prescription drug-alcohol-illegal drugs/job pressures {why the highest percentage of violence is perpetrated by those hired to protect & serve}...and as with the many-many times we provided the links/data/information about how abuse occurs and the grooming process that takes place from the perpetrator {rarely ever happens over night} once the pattern starts --- it's really rare that the female victim leaves the horror and more often then not when she does --- she's killed for her betrayal!

But those are just 'FACTS' and facts often get tossed to the winds when the reader doesn't want to accept that those ABUSE NUMBERS ARE COMPILED FROM SOMEWHERE --- they just don't get made up for sh*ts and grins!!!
The absolute most dangerous time for any battered human is when they:
a.) reported
b.) obtained a restraining order
c.) relocated in the dark of night to an abuse center - ran and didn't leave a forwarding address/phone #
d.) had any expectations of having a solid support system from the local police/law enforcement


Psychologist & Physiologist
Psychiatrists are medical doctors (MDs) who graduate from medical school, have a year of medical internship, and have 3 years of residency in the assessment and treatment of mental health disorders.

Psychologists have a doctoral degree in an area of psychology, the study of the mind and human behavior. They’re not medical doctors. A psychologist can have a PhD in philosophy or a PsyD in clinical or counseling psychology. Typically, they do 1-2 years of internship. Unlike psychiatrists, psychologists are also trained in giving psychological tests (like IQ tests or personality tests).

Because of their medical training, psychiatrists can prescribe medication -- probably the most commonly known distinction between the two fields. But a few states allow psychologists to prescribe a limited number of psychiatric medications if they’ve taken a course in psychopharmacology.

And with the research that our medical people have been doing into the inner working parts of the brain {they just discovered where the area is that determines our sexual preferences}...all of the work & research that we've funded for Alzheimer's prevention &/or cure has netted some amazing discoveries!
And we've come a long-long way from those mental health books written by Dr. Freud and his heroin/LSD induced BS {rat in the maze type of redundant testing} that we have a better idea of what a full blown spectrum blood work up - along with a oral history of human social interactions within the family nucleus and the visual/hearing & physical abuse applied to us during our formative years...we have a full cohesive image of what each violent offender needs and what they absolutely DO NOT NEED is having more repressive prescription drugs thrown at them.   

Yes, indeed - women that murder their own children; often due to those voices that they are hearing or Postpartum depression (PPD) a horrific emotional guilt ridden problem! That only recently has been given any attention!  Before {aprox. 1990's} women were told to 'get over it' or 'it's all in your head' or 'here's a prescription for Prozac {or something similar} and sent home to just 'DEAL WITH IT'.  

18 yrs...it took my older sister 18yrs of suffering every kind of abuse known to be used against and to her before she finally got the courage to reach out to someone else beside me.  Called and obtained a restraining order - wasn't enforced; called the abuse shelter - it was full.  Hubby was arrested & booked on another violation and kept in the jail - bailed out by another daughter from a previous marriage - he arrived at my sisters home at midnight and shot his way into the home; after telling his own daughter what he was going to do - told the discharge officer what he was going to do and NOT ONE OF THOSE UNIFORMED OFFICERS MADE ANY ATTEMPT TO WARN MY SISTER AND HER 6 CHILDREN.  

Yipper...it does take a whole butt load of degrees to see that this has been a problem that just hasn't had anything but to shove it under the rug. The years that it's taken to change our way of dealing with domestic violence and then add into that reluctance with some budget cuts and mental health facilities that have been closed down {circa Ronnie Reagan era} has left all of us with little to zero resources and places to get help.


Hear bloody hear!

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:10 pm

sassy wrote:She goes to the police and she tells them everything? And then what.? Her word against his, absolutely no evidence, the police would have told her to go away. This was back in the late 70s and we still have police saying lessons have been learnt when yet another woman and her children die after they have asked for police help over and over again.

Look, there would have been a police investigation into the kid's death, there would have been an inquest. If she really thought he had deliberately sent the kid into the traffic, she had a lot of opportunities to say so. Clearly, it couldn't be proved that he did, and perhaps she didn't really believe he had done such a thing. If she did believe it, and she carried on living with him, she was assisting an offender, and she was enabling him to get away with that kind of thing.

I don't buy it. Lifestyle isn't just about money, it's about status and other things. She obviously preferred to ignore the bad stuff and carry on.




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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:11 pm

What world do you live in?   Police investigation into the death?  Yea right!  It would be her world against his and they would say she had a grudge.  Naive doesn't begin to cover it.    With women like you around, with no understanding of the problem and victim blaming, no wonder it carries on.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:14 pm

sassy wrote:What world do you live in?   Police investigation into the death?  Yea right!  It would be her world against his and they would say she had a grudge.  Naive doesn't begin to cover it.

Of course there would be an investigation. Do you think a kid would get killed and then everyone says - oh well, never mind.

So she carried on working with him and living with him even though she believed he killed his own kid. She justified that by saying that he might do something to the horses? Nah - something doesn't ring true here.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 pm

Rags, the child's death had already been put down as an accident, there would be no further investigation, she had no evidence and you obviously don't have the slightest idea what people will do to save things they love.  Not a clue.   Do you actually have anything you love?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:18 pm

sassy wrote:Rags, the child's death had already been put down as an accident, there would be no further investigation, she had no evidence and you obviously don't have the slightest idea what people will do to save things they love.  Not a clue.   Do you actually have anything you love?

There would have been an inquest!

I have no sympathy - she believed he killed the kid and she didn't lift a finger to tell anyone. She carried on living and working with him. She chose to stay, and she chose to keep quiet.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:20 pm

DOH, the inquest had already been held.  Jeepers it's like swimming in mud.

So, do you have anything you love that you would put before yourself and you would be terrified if it was going to be tortured?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:21 pm

sassy wrote:DOH, the inquest had already been held.  Jeepers it's like swimming in mud.

So, do you have anything you love that you would put before yourself and you would be terrified if it was going to be tortured?

The inquest was held at the roadside?

This is what you said.

He then threatened the horses to get his wife to say it was an accident.

So she deliberately lied to the police or at the inquest.

She needed to grow a spine and do something about the situation. I guess it's easier not to huh?

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:24 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:DOH, the inquest had already been held.  Jeepers it's like swimming in mud.

So, do you have anything you love that you would put before yourself and you would be terrified if it was going to be tortured?

The inquest was held at the roadside?

This is what you said.

He then threatened the horses to get his wife to say it was an accident.

So she deliberately lied to the police or at the inquest.

She needed to grow a spine and do something about the situation. I guess it's easier not to huh?



What?   Who the fuck said the inquest was held at the roadside?  The inquest was held where any inquests are held, in the Coroners court, there was no evidence it was anything but an accident and she was threatened it she didn't agree with him he'd rip the horses up.

I don't believe you have anything you would put before yourself if someone said they would torture it.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:25 pm

I notice you are very carefully avoiding the question about having something you would protect because you love them more than youself.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:26 pm

sassy wrote:I notice you are very carefully avoiding the question about having something you would protect because you love them more than youself.

It's not relevant. She could have moved the horses. She could have moved herself too, but she chose not to. She put her lifestyle before the life of that kid.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:27 pm

Avoiding the question again.


Women like you are part of the problem because you don't have the empathy, understanding of the situation or the intelligence to comprehend the different forces at work.


Last edited by sassy on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:29 pm

sassy wrote:Avoiding the question again.

It's not relevant. I dislike your rather emotional, sentimental, soppy way of posting. Stick to the point - she chose to stay with him when she thought he had murdered his own kid.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:32 pm

I am sticking to the point, but unfortunately I'm talking to someone who has no clue of the psychological aspects of the manipulation going on.

In which case I'll leave you to your bitching about her, because that makes you part of the problem and the reason why men like that manage to get away with it, because you blame the victim and have absolutely no understanding of the situation. 

4Ever was quite right with the FACTS:

The absolute most dangerous time for any battered human is when they:
a.) reported
b.) obtained a restraining order
c.) relocated in the dark of night to an abuse center - ran and didn't leave a forwarding address/phone #
d.) had any expectations of having a solid support system from the local police/law enforcement

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:34 pm

sassy wrote:I am sticking to the point, but unfortunately I'm talking to someone who has no clue of the psychological aspects of the manipulation going on.

In which case I'll leave you to your bitching about her, because that makes you part of the problem and the reason why men like that manage to get away with it, because you blame the victim and have absolutely no understanding of the situation. 

4Ever was quite right with the FACTS:

The absolute most dangerous time for any battered human is when they:
a.) reported
b.) obtained a restraining order
c.) relocated in the dark of night to an abuse center - ran and didn't leave a forwarding address/phone #
d.) had any expectations of having a solid support system from the local police/law enforcement

You also covered up the murder of a child - if you believe her story. Therefore, you're in no position to tell anyone else that they have "no understanding" of the situation.

He got away with it because she let him!

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:35 pm

Rags, you're nuts and dense, but there you go.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:36 pm

sassy wrote:Rags, you're nuts and dense, but there you go.

No, you covered it up after she told you about it. I suppose you told her that it wasn't her fault that she lied.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:38 pm

That's exactly what I mean about you being dense.  You have to have evidence, you can't just say somebody did something and the police go, did they, ok we'll arrest them DOH. 

So, still avoiding if you love anything enough to be devastated if it was threatened.  I think that says everything.  You'd live in a freezer quite happily.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:45 pm

sassy wrote:That's exactly what I mean about you being dense.  You have to have evidence, you can't just say somebody did something and the police go, did they, ok we'll arrest them DOH. 

So, still avoiding if you love anything enough to be devastated if it was threatened.  I think that says everything.  You'd live in a freezer quite happily.

Of course you can go to the police and tell them your suspicions. You also report the threats and the violence. Then if anything happened after that, it would be obvious that he did it.

I'm not going to pander to your silly emotional questions. You clearly enabled this woman to carry on, and you did nothing to help her, despite your "concern" for her

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:47 pm

My lor, you actually believe that don't you.  Hope nobody in danger tells you anything because you'll get them killed.   And you can't force help on people.

Not going to pander to my question, what you mean is, you are the only thing you love.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:50 pm

sassy wrote:My lor, you actually believe that don't you.  Hope nobody in danger tells you anything because you'll get them killed.   And you can't force help on people.

Not going to pander to my question, what you mean is, you are the only thing you love.

I mean that I can't stand your stupid soppy attitude, and it's not relevant. What's relevant is that this woman chose to stay, so it's her own fault.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:53 pm

Soppy attitude?  No, fact facing attidue and knowing the limits of what can be done, and knowing how police act and how they have got so many women killed by their actions.  You do know a woman dies every 3 days from domestic abuse, and very often it's when she's been to the police.  Often their children die with them.

You are so bloody ignorant it's not funny.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:56 pm

sassy wrote:Soppy attitude?  No, fact facing attidue and knowing the limits of what can be done, and knowing how police act and how they have got so many women killed by their actions.  You do know a woman dies every 3 days from domestic abuse, and very often it's when she's been to the police.  Often their children die with them.

You are so bloody ignorant it's not funny.

Yes, your soppy attitude. I generally ignore your hysterical soppy posts. You can't seem to stick to the point on anything. I have no sympathy for someone who turned a blind eye to the death of a child and then carried on living and working with the perpetrator.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:56 pm

It IS relevent though ragga....

I have seen abuse from both sides

let me tell you folks in that sort of situation are far from calm and rational.
the are scared, in a permanent state of panic, and cannot see their way out of it...

especially women

as I have said I had a few years of it myself , on the receiving end of bothe pysical and psycho abuse....

I was I suppose lucky, since in reality there was nothing she could do to stop me leaving...

the only "weapon she had was a vague threat to "get some guys to sort me" ...yeah like really?...wow scared I am.....not...

see that sort of threat to me is empty....I have always been "handy" with fists feet elbows and at need teeth....

I'm not by nature violent....but if pushed I am incredibly evil.....and have the training to be so...

what does a woman have???, against a proveably violent bloke

she wouldnt have DARED threaten anything I "treasured", becasue she knew damn well that THAT would likely break my code of non violence to a woman......and the result of that would have been catastrophic.....


now put yourself in the place of a woman that knows the abuser in her life will act with violence....

she cant defend herself..she cant rely on fists and feet....christ on a bike 99% of women (unless they get military style training) cant even convicingly LOOK fierce, let alone act it, and even less so carry it through.

unless specially trained,

In GENERAL....

women are more prone to shock from even minor damage
they react with fear and flight to a hostile situation
they havnt the bulk or muscle for a real fight
being generally lighter they are far more fragile

and thats just the physical side of things

then there is this...now its only an observation ....so I may be wrong BUT

men have a far better support mechanism when it comes to matters of violence...

a bloke feels threatened...he can soon find a few "mates" who are up for the aggro if needed

women (again I qualify ....in general) dont do this....

their "support is better at "emotional support"

a woman can go cry on her mates shoulder, and tell her whats up...

blokes (in general) dont and this sort of support is absent to a large degree in the male world.

add to that the fact that Neither sex in that situation is likely to ask for help from the opposite and you have a big problem for the weaker one...dont you?

my daughter was lucky that she COULD confide in me when one of her ex's got nasty...

I took him for a "walk" Laughing and explained in great detail that that sort of thing just wasnt on...and that if anything bad happened in her life from now on HE would be held personally responsible and we would be having a much, much longer walk

for some reason he moved to the other end of the country....buried himself in the deepest depths of kent....... Slapping. - Page 3 2190311264







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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:57 pm

As I said, total dense, and a total lack of understanding of the psychological situations of these women, victim blaming and part of the problem.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:59 pm

Lord Foul wrote:It IS relevent though ragga....

I have seen abuse from both sides

let me tell you folks in that sort of situation are far from calm and rational.
the are scared, in a permanent state of panic, and cannot see their way out of it...

especially women

as I have said I had a few years of it myself , on the receiving end of bothe pysical and psycho abuse....

I was I suppose lucky, since in reality there was nothing she could do to stop me leaving...

the only "weapon she had was a vague threat to "get some guys to sort me"  ...yeah like really?...wow scared I am.....not...

see that sort of threat to me is empty....I have always been "handy" with fists feet elbows and at need teeth....

I'm not by nature violent....but if pushed I am incredibly evil.....and have the training to be so...

what does a woman have???, against a proveably violent bloke

she wouldnt have DARED threaten anything I "treasured", becasue she knew damn well that THAT would likely break my code of non violence to a woman......and the result of that would have been catastrophic.....


now put yourself in the place of a woman that knows the abuser in her life will act with violence....

she cant defend herself..she cant rely on fists and feet....christ on a bike 99% of women (unless they get military style training) cant even convicingly LOOK fierce, let alone act it, and even less so carry it through.

unless specially trained,

In GENERAL....

women are more prone to shock from even minor damage
they react with fear and flight to a hostile situation
they havnt the bulk or muscle for a real fight
being generally lighter they are far more fragile

and thats just the physical side of things

then there is this...now its only an observation ....so I may be wrong BUT

men have a far better support mechanism when it comes to matters of violence...

a bloke feels threatened...he can soon find a few "mates" who are up for the aggro if needed

women (again I qualify ....in general) dont do this....

their "support is better at "emotional support"

a woman can go cry on her mates shoulder, and tell her whats up...

blokes (in general) dont and this sort of support is absent to a large degree in the male world.

add to that the fact that Neither sex in that situation is likely to ask for help from the opposite and you have a big problem for the weaker one...dont you?

my daughter was lucky that she COULD confide in me when one of her ex's got nasty...

I took him for a "walk"  Laughing  and explained in great detail that that sort of thing just wasnt on...and that if anything bad happened in her life from now on HE would be held personally responsible and we would be having a much, much longer walk

for some reason he moved to the other end of the country....buried himself in the deepest depths of kent....... Slapping. - Page 3 2190311264







Spot on!

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