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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:28 pm

As an adult have you ever slapped anyone or been slapped?

Is it still more acceptable for a woman to slap a man than a man to slap a woman?

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Slapping. Apache

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:56 pm

Stormee wrote:There are 3/4 so called women on forumz who deserve a smack up the kisser but I would not do it, honest????????? lol! lol! lol!

I was tort not to hit women or swear in their presence, incidentally, I only swear if it slips out.

I admit I have slapped a couple of men when it has been (imo) warranted.
I could never condone a man slapping a woman though, unless it's in self defence that is.

Thankfully on forums we have an ignore button rather than a slap button. Razz

I have just used mine for only the 2nd time in 8 years. Laughing

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Post by eddie on Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:02 pm

Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:07 pm

eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

I don't agree but it could be a generational thing....and I am talking of extreme circumstances, not just cos someone has irritated you.

If a man groped you (for eg) would your instinct not be to smack his face?
Far better than to report him (long after he has scarpered) and waste police time and your own.

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Post by eddie on Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

I don't agree but it could be a generational thing....and I am talking of extreme circumstances, not just cos someone has irritated you.

If a man groped you (for eg) would your instinct not be to smack his face?
Far better than to report him (long after he has scarpered) and waste police time and your own.

Ummmm, I'm not sure I'm much of a "slapper" tbh

Amd yes, I realsie how that sounded after I typed it lol!

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Stormee wrote:There are 3/4 so called women on forumz who deserve a smack up the kisser but I would not do it, honest????????? lol! lol! lol!

I was tort not to hit women or swear in their presence, incidentally, I only swear if it slips out.

I taught my son never to hit girls.
I picked him up from school once when he was about 10 or 11....this red headed horror of a girl was whacking him with a sharp branch and he was trying to talk her out of it.
From then on I taught him self defence was OK.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:11 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:

I don't agree but it could be a generational thing....and I am talking of extreme circumstances, not just cos someone has irritated you.

If a man groped you (for eg) would your instinct not be to smack his face?
Far better than to report him (long after he has scarpered) and waste police time and your own.

Ummmm, I'm not sure I'm much of a "slapper" tbh

Amd yes, I realsie how that sounded after I typed it lol!

Lol...it sounded straight to the point. Cool

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:57 pm

Stormee wrote:
eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

Strange, really?
I boxed for years, tell it to the marines. lol

Question...if boxers slapped instead of punched would they still have to wear gloves? Slapping. 1094176690

Re women slapping men who make unwelcome passes....how much easier would it have been in some of the recent historic sexual abuse cases.....not the ones where the women had genuine complaint, but the ones where grown women claimed that 30 years ago some man tried to touch their breast or dived in for an unwelcome snog.

How much easier, less expensive, and much more satisfying would it have been just to give the man a short sharp slap across the face.....and then both getting on with their lives instead of dragging it all out decades later?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:01 pm

eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

Some men do deserve a slap though ...


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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:04 pm

Stormee wrote:
Syl wrote:

Question...if boxers slapped instead of punched would they still have to wear gloves? Slapping. 1094176690

Re women slapping men who make unwelcome passes....how much easier would it have been in some of the recent historic sexual abuse cases.....not the ones where the women had genuine complaint, but the ones where grown women claimed that 30 years ago some man tried to touch their breast or dived in for an unwelcome snog.

How much easier, less expensive, and much more satisfying would it have been just to give the man a short sharp slap across the face.....and then both getting on with their lives instead of dragging it all out decades later?

This last bit tickuld me.

It's true though. Some men have been cleared, but the stress of going through all this decades later, when they had no recollection of the woman must have been horrible.

Repeat....I'm not talking about serious allegations or underage girls (and boys) more the ..."he tried to grab my boob when I wasn't looking in 1980" sort of accusations, which amazingly was taken seriously.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:05 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

Some men do deserve a slap though ...


Surprised

Yes....and probably some women to, but I would not encourage that. rabbit

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:09 pm

Stormee wrote:

I hope you are not referring to my munki mate.  lol!  lol!  lol!




He definitely deserves one. Laughing

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Post by eddie on Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:10 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

Some men do deserve a slap though ...


Surprised

That is true. I can't argue with that lol!

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Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:08 pm

eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

That depends what the man is doing, or trying to do.   Taking physical liberties with a woman deserves either a slap round the face, or a kick in the nuts.
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Post by eddie on Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:52 pm

What does a man do when it's the other way round then? Because it dies happen.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:31 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

That depends what the man is doing, or trying to do.   Taking physical liberties with a woman deserves either a slap round the face, or a kick in the nuts.

That 'FIGHT OR FLIGHT' issue...well, I've always/still firmly believe that keeping our hands to ourselves is the WAY TO GO!
Slapping some huge arse-hole that may be in dire need of a good wallop --- might be what our knee-jerk reaction would be but then there's that opposite reaction and we could be hurt far worse by that then the insult/groping/to aggressive male behavior.
Saw that happen once in a bar {circa 1974}, college friend was being groped by a really large/inebriated football star --- she tried being firm & polite about telling him to BACK OFF; then she supplied him with a round house slap and he brought up his fists! When I sat up with her all night in the emergency room, where she had her jaw wired and several stitches and a broken eye socket --- she ended up going home to recuperate.
Moral of this story --- vacate the immediate area and walk away!

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:36 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

That depends what the man is doing, or trying to do.   Taking physical liberties with a woman deserves either a slap round the face, or a kick in the nuts.

That 'FIGHT OR FLIGHT' issue...well, I've always/still firmly believe that keeping our hands to ourselves is the WAY TO GO!  
Slapping some huge arse-hole that may be in dire need of a good wallop --- might be what our knee-jerk reaction would be but then there's that opposite reaction and we could be hurt far worse by that then the insult/groping/to aggressive male behavior.
Saw that happen once in a bar {circa 1974}, college friend was being groped by a really large/inebriated football star --- she tried being firm & polite about telling him to BACK OFF; then she supplied him with a round house slap and he brought up his fists!  When I sat up with her all night in the emergency room, where she had her jaw wired and several stitches and a broken eye socket --- she ended up going home to recuperate.
Moral of this story --- vacate the immediate area and walk away!

Your friend was horribly unlucky to come into contact with someone like him, who probably wouldn't have needed much encouragement to hit any random woman who displeased him. Hopefully somewhere along the line he met his match....bullies usually do.

I agree with you that in a situation like that it's best to just leave....telling a drunken nutter like him to back off would probably count to him as encouragement.

Instinct is a good measure of how to handle situations like this I think.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Syl stated >>> Your friend was horribly unlucky to come into contact with someone like him, who probably wouldn't have needed much encouragement to hit any random woman who displeased him. Hopefully somewhere along the line he met his match....bullies usually do.

I agree with you that in a situation like that it's best to just leave....telling a drunken nutter like him to back off would probably count to him as encouragement.

Instinct is a good measure of how to handle situations like this I think.

To true all of that; and yet the influx of alchohol into that situation...
Gave the JOCK a false sense of increased charisma and a attitude of 'I'm man & you are woman - OBEY ME'

Gave my petite cute GF a bizarre sense of 'I am WOMAN and I'll stand up to your larger body type and apply a sharp smack to your stupid face'...

Moral of this story: drunks/drinking and being an utter arse just doesn't make for a GOOD ENDING PERIOD.

She did write on her communication paper {at the hospital}; 'Why didn't you stop me from hitting him???'
Ya, well I guess my Slapping. 2187004795 was clouded and that dulled my ability to READ HER F'n MIND! Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:51 pm

I always found moving towards them with a smile to disarm, stepping on their toe and saying 'so sorry' while surreptitiously lowering my hand and twisting their balls was a much better idea, kinda hard to see where to throw a punch when your eyes are watering lol

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:52 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Syl stated >>> Your friend was horribly unlucky to come into contact with someone like him, who probably wouldn't have needed much encouragement to hit any random woman who displeased him. Hopefully somewhere along the line he met his match....bullies usually do.

I agree with you that in a situation like that it's best to just leave....telling a drunken nutter like him to back off would probably count to him as encouragement.

Instinct is a good measure of how to handle situations like this I think.

To true all of that; and yet the influx of alchohol into that situation...
Gave the JOCK a false sense of increased charisma and a attitude of 'I'm man & you are woman - OBEY ME'

Gave my petite cute GF a bizarre sense of 'I am WOMAN and I'll stand up to your larger body type and apply a sharp smack to your stupid face'...

Moral of this story: drunks/drinking and being an utter arse just doesn't make for a GOOD ENDING PERIOD.  

She did write on her communication paper {at the hospital}; 'Why didn't you stop me from hitting him???'  
Ya, well I guess my Slapping. 2187004795 was clouded and that dulled my ability to READ HER F'n MIND! Rolling Eyes  
Laughing
That made me laugh.

Drink is the worst thing to cloud judgment....maybe she thought it was a good idea at the time.


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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:54 pm

sassy wrote:I always found moving towards them with a smile to disarm, stepping on their toe and saying 'so sorry' while surreptitiously lowering my hand and twisting their balls was a much better idea, kinda hard to see where to throw a punch when your eyes are watering lol

Laughing Laughing Laughing

I have missed your wit Sassy. x

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:59 pm

Hi Syl, been at Dads.  Was hoping he'd let us move in with him to help him (just had his 94th birthday).  Stubborn old bugger says put it off another year, he's still managing, looks like my brother and I will have to carry on taking it in turns.  Would you believe he's arranging to have his hip resurfaced!   He will have to have help after that for a while.

As for the above advice, worked for me lol

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:06 pm

sassy wrote:Hi Syl, been at Dads.  Was hoping he'd let us move in with him to help him (just had his 94th birthday).  Stubborn old bugger says put it off another year, he's still managing, looks like my brother and I will have to carry on taking it in turns.  Would you believe he's arranging to have his hip resurfaced!   He will have to have help after that for a while.

As for the above advice, worked for me lol

Good luck with your dad Sassy. I went through similar with my mum, she didn't want to live with us, she lived literally two minutes walk away, but she clung on to her independence for years. When she needed full time care she opted for a small residential home which was homely and lovely, but she never settled....it's hard.

My mother in law had a fall and needed a hip replacement just before her 100th birthday. No one expected her to come through....she is now getting on for 102 and still going strong.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:13 pm

Well, if she can do that my Dad can cope with the hip resurfacing.  Unfortunately he's in Norfolk near Hunstanton and we are in Suffolk, would love him to move nearer but don't think he is going to and I don't blame him, he has so many friends and so much to do.

Back on the subject, I think slapping gives them an excuse to slap back.  Got to be handled in a way they don't expect.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:25 pm

Syl wrote:
sassy wrote:Hi Syl, been at Dads.  Was hoping he'd let us move in with him to help him (just had his 94th birthday).  Stubborn old bugger says put it off another year, he's still managing, looks like my brother and I will have to carry on taking it in turns.  Would you believe he's arranging to have his hip resurfaced!   He will have to have help after that for a while.

As for the above advice, worked for me lol
Good luck with your dad Sassy. I went through similar with my mum, she didn't want to live with us, she lived literally two minutes walk away, but she clung on to her independence for years. When she needed full time care she opted for a small residential home which was homely and lovely, but she never settled....it's hard.

My mother in law had a fall and needed a  hip replacement just before her 100th birthday. No one expected her to come through....she is now getting on for 102 and still going strong.
Bless him for his hard-headed independent attitude; but dog-gone it...the dangers and ability to maneuver around their own homes often makes their daily lives a daily-death trap and environment filled with falling hazards galore! It's like trying to keep a toddler safe and yet that elder person wants all of their 'STUFF' left AS-IS and refuses to see or allow their family and care giver to change/modify the interior to provide them a safer area to move around in!
Those horrid scatter rugs/extension cords/where they keep the toaster {mother always wanted it shoved under the counter - hot or not} fire dangers/to many piles of newspaper/magazines and hoarding CRAP that kept those brown-recluse spiders a happy place to dwell Suspect
UGH --- the horror stories that I went through just with my own mother; thinking I could manage it all better if I just moved her in here with me --- OMG Well, in theory that was the THOUGHT!!!
Wishing you good luck and allowing home health care personnel into his home to do a walk through safety check might be the thing to take the burden off of your back {give your parent someone else to listen too} because putting up a few safety grab bars/looking for specific safety issues and making sure that meds are being taken on time and not dropped all over the floor is a primary important thing that the elderly and their fading eyesight just seem to be the most hazardous.
I had my mother with me for her last 6 yrs of life; hard - very hard, barely touches the drama and problems that being a care giver to your parent describes. But the glorious memories and our heart-to-heart discussion about final plans and our family ancestors --- was priceless too.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:31 pm

Thanks for that, it is a nightmare but one of the things I don't have to worry about with my Dad is clutter, he's a neat freak, and no rugs, straight carpet all the way through.  He also has a stair lift that turns round at the top so he steps out onto the landing rather than the stairs, and a walk-in bath.  He put those in for my Mum, but he is now getting the benefit.  It's great, because it does mean he can use the whole house, not just the downstairs.  He also has one of those beds that raise and lower at the touch of a button and bend to give you more support for you back and knees, so he's really well set up.  That does take the pressure off somewhat.

I know that when he really needs me he will say.  Although, agree with you, living with a parent isn't easy.  He's a control freak, has already paid for and planned his funeral!!!!!!   Given a chance he'd write the speeches as well.

So nice you found looking after your Mum so worthwhile.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:35 pm

Yes, indeed ...sounds like he's well prepared for mobility issues. My other main concerns were always those 'aging' products shoved to the back of those refrigerators; I've found elderly eating products 1 - 2 years past their 'sold by dates' and suffering the ill affects from the bacteria --- their sense of smell and poor eye sight just wasn't sharp enough to protect them.
I'll apologize for derailing/off topic post to Syl --- got things on my mind and this is pretty important topic.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:47 pm

Syl wrote:
Stormee wrote:There are 3/4 so called women on forumz who deserve a smack up the kisser but I would not do it, honest????????? lol! lol! lol!

I was tort not to hit women or swear in their presence, incidentally, I only swear if it slips out.

I taught my son never to hit girls.
I picked him up from school once when he was about 10 or 11....this red headed horror of a girl was whacking him with a sharp branch and he was trying to talk her out of it.
From then on I taught him self defence was OK.

Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I taught my son never to hit girls.
I picked him up from school once when he was about 10 or 11....this red headed horror of a girl was whacking him with a sharp branch and he was trying to talk her out of it.
From then on I taught him self defence was OK.

Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!


That Quill, is complete and utter bullshit I'm afraid.  They normal start off with the male controlling the female, undermining her confidence and cutting her off from her friend and family.  She wouldn't have the confidence to hit first, or last for that matter.  She rarely even has the confidence to leave, as she has been manipulated into believing she couldn't support herself, or in other cases, would not be allowed to keep her children and is told they would go to the abuser.

Yes, there are cases where the woman is the abuser and they are just as disgusting, but in 90% of the cases the man is the abuserer and the woman never lifts a finger in her own defence, she is too terrified.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:57 pm

For once Wiki sums it up quite well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_and_control_in_abusive_relationships

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:06 pm

Until the recent headline/media spot about a Abuse Center Opening Up for 'ABUSED MEN'; I was rather unaware of the numbers of stats that this carried with it! SHOCKED, I was!

More than 830,000 men fall victim to domestic violence every year, which means every 37.8 seconds, somewhere in America a man is battered, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey. While more than 1.5 million women are also victims, everyone -- no matter their sex --deserves help.

"Domestic violence is not about size, gender, or strength," says Jan Brown, executive director and founder of the Domestic Abuse Helpline for Men. "It's about abuse, control, and power, and getting out of dangerous situations and getting help, whether you are a woman being abused, or a man."

There are more than 4,000 domestic violence programs in the U.S., but Brown says very few actually offer the same services to men as they do women. So where can a man turn for support when he is being abused? Domestic violence experts offer advice for men who may be falling through the cracks.
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/help-for-battered-men

As I'm well aware {and I'm sure all of us know a few women} that are beyond capable to laying out the verbal abuse upon their loved ones and especially their significant other/husband! More often than not --- it's those very same men that were raised to 'never lay a hand upon a woman - regardless of what/how they are treating you' and those same humans become the victim for the wrath of EVIL that can be spewed upon their every senses.

ABUSIVE HUMANS have the wide world of gender/race/age to put their vile verbiage to use!

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:10 pm

UK stats from REFUGE who are the association who take care of domestic abuse victims:


Domestic violence – the facts

General


  • 2 women are killed every week in England and Wales by                                                                    a current or former partner (Office of National Statistics, 2015Slapping. R-D-10351-200x300) – 1 woman killed every 3 days
  • 1 in 4 women in England and Wales will experience domestic violence in their lifetimes and 8% will suffer domestic violence in any given year(Crime Survey of England and Wales, 2013/14)
  • Globally, 1 in 3 women will experience violence at the hands of a male partner (State of the World’s Fathers Report, MenCare, 2015)
  • Domestic violence has a higher rate of repeat victimisation than any other crime (Home Office, July 2002)
  • Every minute police in the UK receive a domestic assistance call – yet only 35% of domestic violence incidents are reported to the police (Stanko, 2000 & Home Office, 2002)
  • The 2001/02 British Crime Survey (BCS) found that there were an estimated 635,000 incidents of domestic violence in England and Wales. 81% of the victims were women and 19% were men. Domestic violence incidents also made up nearly 22% of all violent incidents reported by participants in the BCS (Home Office, July 2002)
  • On average, a woman is assaulted 35 times before her first call to the police (Jaffe, 1982)

Children


  • 25% of children in the UK have been exposed to domestic abuse (Radford et al. NSPCC, 2011)
  • In 90% of domestic violence incidents in family households, children were in the same or the next room (Hughes, 1992)
  • 62% of children in households where domestic violence is happening are also directly harmed (SafeLives, 2015)/li>

Health


  • 30% of domestic violence either starts or will intensify during pregnancy (Department of Health report, October 2004)
  • Foetal morbidity from violence is more prevalent than gestational diabetes or pre-eclampsia (Friend, 1998)

Cost to society


  • In November 2009, Sylvia Walby of the University of Leeds estimated the total costs of domestic violence to be £15.7 billion a year.  This is broken down as follows:
  • The costs to services (Criminal Justice System, health, social services, housing, civil legal) amount to £3.8 billion per year
  • The loss to the economy – where women take time off work due to injuries – is £1.9 billion per year
  • Domestic violence also leads to pain and suffering that is not counted in the cost of services.  The human and emotional costs of domestic violence amount to almost £10 billion per year


http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/what-is-domestic-violence/domestic-violence-the-facts/

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:29 pm

Those are such shocking/sad and pathetic statistics to see in black & white! SMH, I hope that there'll come a time that such incidents are so rare that it's less then 1% of any given day - any where in the world that domestic violence/workplace violence/all genders/all age groups/all races have to deal with such horrible abuses.

But as sad as those stats are the ones on the increase from our active duty military and the consistent high percentages for our law enforcement humans is just outrageous and needs a total clean sweep! IMHO

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:53 pm

sassy wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!


That Quill, is complete and utter bullshit I'm afraid.  They normal start off with the male controlling the female, undermining her confidence and cutting her off from her friend and family.  She wouldn't have the confidence to hit first, or last for that matter.  She rarely even has the confidence to leave, as she has been manipulated into believing she couldn't support herself, or in other cases, would not be allowed to keep her children and is told they would go to the abuser.

I disagree, but not with the idea the male is trying to control.  In the verbal part, he usually is.  But I am talking about the physical part.  A male is taught from day one that it is taboo to hit a woman.  A woman, on the other hand, is taught that a man is bigger, and therefore he cannot be hurt if you get physical.  That chemistry generally results with the woman starting the physical part of the confrontation.  Women simply do not have the social prohibition associated with getting physical.  Look at Syl's example...very typical. She touches on all of the points, one-by-one.

sassy wrote:Yes, there are cases where the woman is the abuser and they are just as disgusting, but in 90% of the cases the man is the abuserer and the woman never lifts a finger in her own defence, she is too terrified.

Depends on what you call "abuse".  I totally agree that men are taught to dominate, and this motivates them to try to control.  But when the confrontation becomes physical, it's generally because the prohibition on violence is not on women as greatly.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:15 pm

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.  It is all about domination and control, and abuse is not just physical.  Abuse is now recognised to be anything from verbal to financial.  It can encompass not speaking, refusing to acknowledge the existence of the other party, to holding on to the bank details and controlling money and going out.  Many start the control with not allowing their partners money so that they can't leave the house.  And what you are doing I'm afraid is the very worst, and that is 'victim blame'.  Not nice to see Quill.


As for the 'men are brought up to dominate', which century are you living in?

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:18 pm

aspca4ever wrote:Those are such shocking/sad and pathetic statistics to see in black & white!  SMH, I hope that there'll come a time that such incidents are so rare that it's less then 1% of any given day - any where in the world that domestic violence/workplace violence/all genders/all age groups/all races have to deal with such horrible abuses.  

But as sad as those stats are the ones on the increase from our active duty military and the consistent high percentages for our law enforcement humans is just outrageous and needs a total clean sweep! IMHO

Statistics in this are are highly suspect. That is because before they are counted as base data, they go through a host of filtration factors.

First and foremost, a male is reluctant to complain. There is a veritable ban on self-reporting. It's girly to whine. It's unmanly to be seen as the victim. It's also seen as impolite, or unmanly, to put a woman in jeopardy; simply put, men don't tell. It used to be that the only reason that police found out about female violence is because they had to respond and see for themselves.

Second, there are much fewer institutions for collecting data from/about abused. Police engage in the same presumption that women do, that the man cannot be hurt. If a male is removed, and not jailed, he generally goes to a hotel; hotels don't keep such records. There are no shelters for men to keep records. The absence of data-collection, except when taken into custody, means the statistics are heavily weighted in favor or women.

Third, the police institutions themselves perpetuate the myth. Cops, responding to a domestic dispute, take the path of least resistance. They take the male out of the situation. He's the one they fear...of course, because he is bigger. If there are children involved, the perception is that the female is needed in the home as the caretaker. Finally, men are simply cheaper to incarcerate: It takes twice as much money to care for a woman in a prison situation, as a man. Then, a record must be kept, perhaps charges to justify the incarceration, so the male/female tally is heavily weighted toward males over females.

So the data are untrustworthy when it comes to such a volatile issue as domestic violence.

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Post by eddie on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:21 pm

I have seen plenty of women slapping blokes and trying to get away with it.
Women can get very volatile and crazy at certain times of the month and they can also get very violent when drunk - mostly when they're indoors, and they think it's ok to hit a man because they know the man won't hit back.

I've seen this and heard this so many times!

It's not uncommon at all.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:27 pm

sassy wrote:You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.  It is all about domination and control, and abuse is not just physical.  Abuse is now recognised to be anything from verbal to financial.  It can encompass not speaking, refusing to acknowledge the existence of the other party, to holding on to the bank details and controlling money and going out.  Many start the control with not allowing their partners money so that they can't leave the house.  And what you are doing I'm afraid is the very worst, and that is 'victim blame'.  Not nice to see Quill.

"Domination and control"? "Verbal to financial"? "Not speaking"? These are gestalts...conclusions of facts, not facts in themselves. It is my point exactly...it is the data after subjecting it to 'spin' by whomever is making a case. If the data are suspect, how do you think the spin is going to turn out?

sassy wrote:As for the 'men are brought up to dominate', which century are you living in?

It's a fact, not a normative statement.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:35 pm

Original Quill stated >>> A male is taught from day one that it is taboo to hit a woman.  A woman, on the other hand, is taught that a man is bigger, and therefore he cannot be hurt if you get physical.

Here's where you and I won't ever see 'eye-to-eye'; you do understand that there's a large percentage of this entire world that still views my species as something to be 'OWNED' {lower then the cattle that they price so highly}---that the old adage of 'keep'm barefoot and pregnant' wasn't just something written in their selective texts of the bible but something that is shouted from that pulpit twice on Sunday and on Wednesday evening too.  And deeply ingrained in the very fiber of the southern bible belt of all my country; regardless of the age/race that these female species are raised up in!

Knowing 'OUR PLACE' within that home/work place/public area has been the repressed method or my gender for centuries and now with the influx of so many Muslim/Islamic refugees it's an epidemic as well.

No, indeed...dear Quill; the majority of men aren't raised to view any woman as anything more then 'sit there and just be pretty - you weren't bred to be a chatty-cathy - be seen and not heard until I tell you what to say'...that's how a great percentage of women are raised and treated...even in this this 21st CENTURY!

And to reply to this additional post:

Quill stated >>>Statistics in this are highly suspect. That is because before they are counted as base data, they go through a host of filtration factors.

First and foremost, a male is reluctant to complain. There is a veritable ban on self-reporting. It's girly to whine. It's unmanly to be seen as the victim. It's also seen as impolite, or unmanly, to put a woman in jeopardy; simply put, men don't tell. It used to be that the only reason that police found out about female violence is because they had to respond and see for themselves.

But reports & reporting data is compiled by the FBI and other agencies to follow society norms and what higher crime stats are being elevated or decreased within specific demographic regions...now you might willfully disagree with the data and the process that is used to collect that data --- but your opinion won't change the DATA!

And yes, our male species has been/will be very reluctant to report female vs male mental & physical & sexual abuse; sadly that machismo BS attitude is very pervasive within the law enforcement career field and that specific career field is a wash with the highest incidents of domestic violence todate!  Slapping. 2113235493

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:37 pm

In view of the debate thought you might find this interesting, just put out by WOMEN'S AID, who have helped more women suffering from domestic abuse in the UK than just about anyone.  Domestic abuse also refers to boyfriend/girlfriend, boy/boy, girl/girl relationships.




Coercive Control: The law, definition, warning signs and ways to seek help

Related articles


Coercive Control: The law, definition, warning signs and ways to seek help

By Hayley Kadrou
23 Feb 2016 14:15


In light of the new Coercive Control Law, we speak to Women’s Aid about what it is, what the law means, and victims and loved ones can seek help.


In December 2015, a UK law was finally passed that meant that controlling and coercive domestic abuse is now punishable with a prison sentence of up to five years.


Yet despite this new legislation, according to research by Women’s Aid has shown that as many as two-thirds of women are unsure what the term ‘coercive control’ means.

Even more shockingly, their research revealed that as a third of young women between the ages of 12-24 identified to having been in a controlling relationship.

So isn't about time we talk about coercive control – how it work and what we can do to help.

We spoke to Polly and Chlo at Women's Aid - who are have just launched a free help and resourch website for women alongside beauty brand Avon, www.lovedontfeelbad.co.uk - about what coercive control, how to spot the signs, seek help and what the law means in terms of justice.


What is coercive control?

Slapping. C3 Like all forms of abuse, emotional abuse and control can play out in many ways. As oppose to physical abuse that may or may not be suffered by the victim as well, coercive control is a pattern of a behaviour that aims to restrict someone’s freedom, and may be blackmailing, forceful, and/or fear installing.

Polly at Women’s Aid defines:
“Coercive control is a repeated pattern of behaviour that takes away the victims freedom.”

In day-to-day life this can include restricting who someone can talk to, see, and where they go, even tracking their movement. When someone is being made to account for ever move they make and every action, this is unacceptable controlling behaviour.

The scary thing about this pattern of behaviour is that the victim may not realise that’s it’s wrong to being with, or even that it’s overly controlling. Slowly the abuser can undermine a victim, and chip away at their self-confidence.

According to the results gathered by Women's Aid, only one in five women realsied they were being controlled once the relationship was terminated, and even more scarily, as many as one in 20 women thought that feeling of fear towards your partner was a 'normal' asepct of loving relationships.

Polly insists that all of these thing together can have a serious impact on an individual, as they’re undermining, and that’s a form of emotional abuse.

This with trying resist and control someone’s behaviour is all coercive control.


What does the new Coercive Control law mean for sufferers?

Slapping. C2%20
Essentially, the new legislation recognises emotional abuse as a crime in the same way as psychical abuse.

The UK Gov website outlines:
“The offence closes a gap in the law around patterns of controlling or coercive behaviour that occurs during a relationship between intimate partners, former partners who still live together or family members.
“This offence sends a clear message that this form of domestic abuse can constitute a serious offence particularly in light of the violation of trust it represents and will provide better protection to victims experiencing repeated or continuous abuse.

“It sets out the importance of recognising the harm caused by coercion or control, the cumulative impact on the victim and that a repeated pattern of abuse can be more injurious and harmful than a single incident of violence.”

Speaking about the women she see in her line of work, Polly from Women's Aid eloborates:

"What it means is that women do not have to experience a physical assault in order for the police to take them seriously.”

Finally, the law is recognising the extreme impact this kind of abuse can have. It can be just as damaging as more visible types of abuse.
Without downplaying the obvious seriousness of domestic violence, Polly recalls: “In fact, some survivors tell us it can be worse than physical assault."

She stresses:
“It’s important to recognise that coercive control isn’t just an aspect of domestic abuse, it’s actually the heart of it.

“It’s at the centre of the most dangerous abusive relationships because it’s controlled by fear, and often the violence is a case of the women breaking out of that control, and when the perpetrator feels the loss of that control, that’s when the abuse can dramatically escalate and become extremely physically dangerous.”

A staggering 95% of domestic abuse survivors have reported experiencing coercive control.


What are the warning signs that yourself or a loved one is in a dangerously controlling relationship?

Slapping. BRCTFJ
As noted about, any behvaious that tries to control or restrict somebody, such as tracking their movements of forbidding them from talking to certain people, are key traits is an emotional and controlling abuser.

But sometimes, when you’re living through a situation, it can be hard to step outside and see it from that perspective. Especially when it’s a reality you don’t want to believe, and /or it’s a habit of behaviour that has built up over time.

Chlo from Women’s Aid warns to look out for extremely jealous partners.
If you noticed that you’ve becoming more and more isolated, and have been restricted from seeing the people you’re closest too, these should be warning signs that something isn’t right.

In fact, if someone is trying to control any aspect of your life - where you go, what you eat, how you dress - this is not a positive sign.

If someobody is making you - or a loved one - feel guilty about not doing exactly what they request is most likely purposefully inflicting some kind of control.

"Maybe it's monitoring your socila media, maybe it's telling you what to wear."

Remember, you're entitled to your own life and making your own decisions, anyone who makes you feel otherwise should ring warning bells.


What should you do if you suspect someone close to you is a victim of coercive control?

Slapping. B4T5HF Although you may be scared to approach the subject, its important to talk to loved ones who you suspect may be suffering. Remember, many people may not even realise that this is happening to them, especially when they’re unfamiliar with a term to associate with their experience.
However, Women’s Aid insist: “Understand that this person might not be ready to leave their partner immediately, and even more importantly, that suddenly putting an end to the relationship may put them in danger,” so don’t pressure them to take sudden action if they’re not ready.

Offer your support, and make sure they know you trust in them, and give them avenues to seek help for themselves.

Chlo states: “Make sure that person knows they are believed, and that it’s not their fault. Inform them that there is support out there and people they can talk to.”

Websites like www.lovedontfeelbad.co.uk offer great support to both those living in emotionally abuse relationships, and their friends and family.

Make support groups and outlets like this known to the loved one you’re worried about. Whether the look at it the next day or the next month, they will hopefully remember where to turn too once they reach breaking point. Knowledge really can be power.

Polly says: “There is also the national domestic advice helpline (www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk) which is staffed by trained professionals who can provide advice on recognising an abusive relationship.

“They will never blame and they will never question, they always believe you but they can also provide advice on safely escaping an abusive relationship as well, which is important.”

But be reassuring too, and let them know you’re not judging them and you don’t think they’re foolish for getting into this situation.


How can we help educate women on what is normal behaviour?

Slapping. BWMHNK
What’s is essential is teaching people that this kind of behaviour – controlling, possessive, jealous – is not a token of love or affection. It’s abuse.

Polly says:
“If you look at popular culture, music videos for example, they often portray and glamourize what is actually a desire to control a women. Over many years culture has kind of romanticised this kind of behaviour”
This is why the new Coercive Control law is so essential – it voices the rigid rule that this kind of behaviour is wrong, unacceptable and will be punished.

Victims can indentify their experience, access help, find other people to talk too and most importantly seek justice for the abuse they've suffered.


Where can people go for help?

Avon and Women’s Aid have launched www.lovedontfeelbad.co.uk, featuring films and free resources for young women to raise awareness of what coercive control means, recognise unhealthy behaviour in their own and their friends’ relationships, and find help where necessary.
Women's Aid, www.womensaid.org.uk, 0808 2000 247 24.

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:39 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Original Quill stated >>> A male is taught from day one that it is taboo to hit a woman.  A woman, on the other hand, is taught that a man is bigger, and therefore he cannot be hurt if you get physical.

Here's where you and I won't ever see 'eye-to-eye'; you do understand that there's a large percentage of this entire world that still views my species as something to be 'OWNED' {lower then the cattle that they price so highly}---that the old adage of 'keep'm barefoot and pregnant' wasn't just something written in their selective texts of the bible but something that is shouted from that pulpit twice on Sunday and on Wednesday evening too.  And deeply ingrained in the very fiber of the southern bible belt of all my country; regardless of the age/race that these female species are raised up in!

Knowing 'OUR PLACE' within that home/work place/public area has been the repressed method or my gender for centuries and now with the influx of so many Muslim/Islamic refugees it's an epidemic as well.

No, indeed...dear Quill; the majority of men aren't raised to view any woman as anything more then 'sit there and just be pretty - you weren't bred to be a chatty-cathy - be seen and not heard until I tell you what to say'...that's how a great percentage of women are raised and treated...even in this this 21st CENTURY!

And to reply to this additional post:

Quill stated >>>Statistics in this are highly suspect. That is because before they are counted as base data, they go through a host of filtration factors.

First and foremost, a male is reluctant to complain. There is a veritable ban on self-reporting. It's girly to whine. It's unmanly to be seen as the victim. It's also seen as impolite, or unmanly, to put a woman in jeopardy; simply put, men don't tell. It used to be that the only reason that police found out about female violence is because they had to respond and see for themselves.

But reports & reporting data is compiled by the FBI and other agencies to follow society norms and what higher crime stats are being elevated or decreased within specific demographic regions...now you might willfully disagree with the data and the process that is used to collect that data --- but your opinion won't change the DATA!

And yes, our male species has been/will be very reluctant to report female vs male mental & physical & sexual abuse; sadly that machismo BS attitude is very pervasive within the law enforcement career field and that specific career field is a wash with the highest incidents of domestic violence todate!  Slapping. 2113235493

Gave you a greenie for that, spot on.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:06 pm

Aspca wrote:Here's where you and I won't ever see 'eye-to-eye'; you do understand that there's a large percentage of this entire world that still views my species as something to be 'OWNED' {lower then the cattle that they price so highly}---that the old adage of 'keep'm barefoot and pregnant' wasn't just something written in their selective texts of the bible but something that is shouted from that pulpit twice on Sunday and on Wednesday evening too.  And deeply ingrained in the very fiber of the southern bible belt of all my country; regardless of the age/race that these female species are raised up in!

Knowing 'OUR PLACE' within that home/work place/public area has been the repressed method or my gender for centuries and now with the influx of so many Muslim/Islamic refugees it's an epidemic as well.

No, indeed...dear Quill; the majority of men aren't raised to view any woman as anything more then 'sit there and just be pretty - you weren't bred to be a chatty-cathy - be seen and not heard until I tell you what to say'...that's how a great percentage of women are raised and treated...even in this this 21st CENTURY!

I totally agree.  But we weren’t talking about gender politics.  We were talking about a narrow sliver of the issue called ‘domestic violence’.  

I think one has to understand that there is a difference between gynocentrism and misogyny.  See, Gynocentrism and its Cultural Origins.  http://gynocentrism.com/  Gynocentrism is the pattern of behavior that puts the female first:  ‘women and children first’, hold the door open, pull out the chair, etc.  Gynocentrism perpetuates sexism...so far from the way it is usually interpreted…defending women. It generally works against the female.

When it comes to domestic violence, there are a lot of gynocentric presumptions that the world engages in, and they contribute to the problem.  Men are stronger.  Women are not violent.  Women sip tea; men get drunk.  These presumptions color our perceptions, and while we are engaging in them we are missing the fundamental truth of what’s going on.

The gynocentric normative assumption that women can hit men, but men cannot hit women, is one of the most dangerous of all assumptions (as we see in the facts).  It is supported by other gynocentric assumptions: men are big, heavy lunks, and can’t be hurt.  Women are frail and cannot themselves hurt anyone else.  There are many more.  

These assumptions perpetuate the problem.  They are perpetually in the background, skewing our perceptions, until one day they come home to roost: because of them, women actually start the physical part of most situations of domestic, physical violence.  Now that's just a fact.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:14 pm

Aspca wrote:But reports & reporting data is compiled by the FBI and other agencies to follow society norms and what higher crime stats are being elevated or decreased within specific demographic regions...now you might willfully disagree with the data and the process that is used to collect that data --- but your opinion won't change the DATA!

And yes, our male species has been/will be very reluctant to report female vs male mental & physical & sexual abuse; sadly that machismo BS attitude is very pervasive within the law enforcement career field and that specific career field is a wash with the highest incidents of domestic violence todate!

Not trying to change the data.  Just trying to point out that it is false.

You point out the gynocentric problem ("...that machismo BS attitude...) but you fail to offer any comment, least of all any solution.  If you are not trying to solve a problem, you are just flailing.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:19 pm

aspca4ever wrote:Yes, indeed ...sounds like he's well prepared for mobility issues.  My other main concerns were always those 'aging' products shoved to the back of those refrigerators; I've found elderly eating products 1 - 2 years past their 'sold by dates' and suffering the ill affects from the bacteria --- their sense of smell and poor eye sight just wasn't sharp enough to protect them.
I'll apologize for derailing/off topic post to Syl --- got things on my mind and this is pretty important topic.

No apology needed . x
Good threads are like good conversations, they meander about all over the place, and usually encompass lots of interesting points along the way Smile

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:22 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:Syl it's not okay for anyone to hit anyone else! It's not "more okay" for a woman to slap a man!
That's really strange thinking that is.

That depends what the man is doing, or trying to do.   Taking physical liberties with a woman deserves either a slap round the face, or a kick in the nuts.

The second option sounds a bit drastic....but if the situation had gotten out of hand and a slap wouldn't do, it would at least enable the woman to get a head start out of the way.

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I taught my son never to hit girls.
I picked him up from school once when he was about 10 or 11....this red headed horror of a girl was whacking him with a sharp branch and he was trying to talk her out of it.
From then on I taught him self defence was OK.

Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!

A man defending himself and a man retaliating are two different things Quill.

Syl

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