EU in or out forum Poll

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EU in or out

32% 32% 
[ 7 ]
45% 45% 
[ 10 ]
23% 23% 
[ 5 ]
 
Total Votes : 22

EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

EU in or out

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:46 pm

funny people seemed to think trade with scotland would dry up if they got independence and all the EU trade treaty's would have to be re negotiated yet now if we leave the Eu thats not a problem ?

ironic

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:00 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:funny how a hypothetical fear based argument is allowable when the lefties are running scared and it suits them

"oh lets all give in to fear and snuggle up to the dictators in europe"

but when people pose genuine reasns for fear based on something the left DONT like...like immigration...it becomes a different story

THEN its you are all pussies
your argument is invalid cos its fear based


well lads the boot is on the other foot...its YOU thats running scared....


Rather different.

Fear of immigration leads to innocents suffering on the grounds that 'possibly' one or two bad eggs get through the net.

Saying what could happen if we leave the EU is not fear mongering. You think there would be NO reprecussions of leaving the EU? Short term AND long term? We can just walk out and nothing will happen other than our golden ascension to the heights of the Pax Britannica?

That is unrealistic. This isn't the 1920s. The world has changed and countries are better off together (see the arguments made repeatedly during the Scottish in or out debate). Plus, there would be economic instability immediately upon leaving the EU. It is ludicrous not to think there would be.
I think the fear of immigrants is based in reality, a leaked german report states over 200000 crimes have been committed by immigrants in a single year.
scandinavia is self destructing under the weight of immigration.
Much of eastern europe is putting up razor wire again to keep unfettered immigration at bay. Unfettered immigration has seen the rise of far rights groups at the highest rate since the 30's.

6000 people have arrived in lesbos in the last 3 days, and it's the low season for people smuggling now. greece already in deep collapse cannot cope.

the security service say 5000 daesh fighters have just walked into europe. 8 wreaked havoc in paris.
It is right to worry about these immigrants and refugees as they are not being vetted in any way.
The recent bombs in turkey have been caused by people who have crossed the border as refugees.
Only an utter fool would not be concerned by what is happening.
Much of the hoard now traipsing its way across europe are not even refugee's they are economic migrants heading for the promised land of free money.
I dont have a problem with genuine refugees being offered sanctuary as those people are fleeing slaughter from all sides in syria. but to be a refugee you need to go through a recognised UN refugee camp. those that arrive by the boatload are not doing that, they are leaving a safe country to get better benefits.

I live amongst thousands of syrian refugees here in turkey and so far not a single one has threatened to cut my head off or kill me. Most are decent folk who are waiting for the day they can get back to syria to rebuild their country. One guy I know left alleppo because he was being bombed by Assad, the FSA and Daesh. He now makes a living selling scarves and trinkets at the beach, but he wants to get back to syria as soon as it is safe to do so.


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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:We can trade with Europe, we can cooperate with Europe... WITHOUT BEING RUN BY EU!



We don't want of need our country/borders/laws/rules/regulations etc to be controlled by Brussels just to do a bit of trade with European countries!


We can trade with them and run our own country and make our own laws and rules through our own national parliament.
it's a small point, but europe is not the EU. there are 50 country's in europe, only 28 in the eu

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by nicko on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:07 pm

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:10 pm

eddie wrote:Can I just say that perhaps it's a generational thing too?
Those of us that remember what it was like to NOT be in the EU and remember how we were lied to about it, are possibly realising that we are better off out of it.

It seems to be people in their early thirties and younger, who wish to stay in.
that will be down to 40 years of indoctrination by schools on the EU.
I can remember in the 70's being told numerous times at school how great being in the EEC would be and that food would cost so much less and we would get cheap watches and other goods because of the common market.

no where in the leaflet sent out by wilsons government is the word federal mentioned.
Of course you woudl be too young to remember, but have a read

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

page 5 is of particular interest because it has pretty much dont the opposite of that


and read page 11&12 and see if we were sold a pup

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Also, those who are older might not be so worried about jobs and that kind of thing. They might want to retire to Spain though ... Laughing
they will still be able to retire to spain. you would apply for a residence permit.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:13 pm

Syl wrote:Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.
one way to look at it is, would you vote to join the EU now

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:17 pm

korban dallas wrote:funny people seemed to think trade with scotland would dry up if they got independence and all the EU trade treaty's would have to be re negotiated yet now if we leave the Eu thats not a problem ?

ironic
do you think spain would welcome an independent scotland when it would give their own independece movements a boost.

the UK is in europe, the UK may leave europe. Scotland is part of the UK for now, if it ever leaves then it would need to apply to join. why would it join a system that would demand it gives up it currency and control of its laws

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:01 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
korban dallas wrote:funny people seemed to think trade with scotland would dry up if they got independence and all the EU trade treaty's would have to be re negotiated yet now if we leave the Eu thats not a problem ?

ironic
do you think spain would welcome an independent scotland when it would give their own independece movements a boost.

the UK is in europe, the UK may leave europe. Scotland is part of the UK for now, if it ever leaves then it would need to apply to join. why would it join a system that would demand it gives up it currency and control of its laws
The SNP want to stay in the EU
So if "England" votes to leave there`s a constitutional crisis

but my point was that all the contracts would be open to renegotiation if the uk leave the EU and that was the point made by some about Scotland if it got independence from the UK the EU signatory
As technically Scotland as independent was Not a EU member and doom and gloom was forecast if Scotland had gotten its independence and was no longer a EU member because all the treatys would have to be renegotiated

And yet now many of those same voices are calling for brexit  doing the very thing they advised the scots against

And as to  spain never been, dont care.Not my problem

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:21 pm

The UK getting out of the EU as a whole is totally different from Scotland leaving the UK, under the pretense of wanting to gain sovereignty and national powers from the UK... when in reality it is the EU that controls the UK and therefore controls scotland and all the powers that snp are wanting to take back control of themselves!!!


Like fisheries and agriculture policy for example...


But then they are also saying they want to immediately sign it all away again to the EU!!!


But then as a tiny new entry nation to get reamed out for ever more!!!


If the snp were truly working in the interests of independence and self rule etc... they would be totally against signing any powers away to the EU! !!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:30 pm

Why will there be a constitutional crisis if the UK leaves the EU? The SNP has a lot of support in Scotland, but they're still part of the UK.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:44 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Syl wrote:Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.
one way to look at it is, would you vote to join the EU now

Not with the same criteria we agreed to when we first joined No.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:04 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Why will there be a constitutional crisis if the UK leaves the EU? The SNP has a lot of support in Scotland, but they're still part of the UK.
the Scottish government ie the SNP want to say in the EU if the uk vote to leave the EU how can they not be ?

ps and that`s why the vote to leave the EU wil fail by the way the scots Snp will vote to stay in the Eu and that will help trump  the English descenters

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:09 am

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Why will there be a constitutional crisis if the UK leaves the EU? The SNP has a lot of support in Scotland, but they're still part of the UK.
the Scottish government ie the SNP want to say in the EU if the uk vote to leave the EU how can they not be ?

Cameron wants to stay in the EU as well, but if the public vote goes against him that doesn't mean there will be a constitutional crisis. The same goes for Scotland.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:12 am

Good point on Scotland. Why would a majority pro-EU country stay in a national Union that pulled them out? Leaving the EU may well lead to a break up of the UK- and the SNP could rightly use many anti-EU arguments to win their case.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:16 am

Eilzel wrote:Good point on Scotland. Why would a majority pro-EU country stay in a national Union that pulled them out? Leaving the EU may well lead to a break up of the UK- and the SNP could rightly use many anti-EU arguments to win their case.

What if a majority of people in England vote to leave, but the Scottish vote changes that so the overall vote is to stay?

We don't know yet if Scotland is a majority pro-EU country. The SNP is, but that's not the same thing.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:19 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Good point on Scotland. Why would a majority pro-EU country stay in a national Union that pulled them out? Leaving the EU may well lead to a break up of the UK- and the SNP could rightly use many anti-EU arguments to win their case.

What if a majority of people in England vote to leave, but the Scottish vote changes that so the overall vote is to stay?

We don't know yet if Scotland is a majority pro-EU country. The SNP is, but that's not the same thing.
Indeed fair point

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:21 am

I saw a poll a few days ago that said over 60% of Scots were pro-EU (over 70% of NI). Just a poll of course.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:22 am

Eilzel wrote:I saw a poll a few days ago that said over 60% of Scots were pro-EU (over 70% of NI). Just a poll of course.

Possibly, but it's not a party issue - ie, nothing to do with the SNP really. The SNP will try to persuade people in Scotland to vote to stay in, but that's all they can do.

I predict that the majority overall will vote to stay in - with quite a large majority. Just my opinion.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:24 am

If the majority in the rest of the UK vote to leave, and Scotland doesn't, maybe there will be a referendum to get rid of Scotland.

Just kidding. lol!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:26 am

Raggs... the snp is a fake Scottish national party, it is really just another pro eu party... the only party in Scotland that wants out of the EU is Ukip!!!


Also don't be fooled by the media and snp lies that most Scottish people want to be in the EU... it is just rubbish!!!



For the Scots to gain any major powers back... they need to be out of the EU as much as the rest of the UK does!!!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:48 am

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What if a majority of people in England vote to leave, but the Scottish vote changes that so the overall vote is to stay?

We don't know yet if Scotland is a majority pro-EU country. The SNP is, but that's not the same thing.
Indeed fair point


The snp leadership is very pro EU... so in a position of complete contradiction when claiming to be fighting to gain independence and powers for Scotland with one breath but then with the next breath they are saying they want to sign it all straight away to the EU to have control of and to dictate over the Scottish people!!!


This is something we already have in the UK. .. eu control and dictate over us as a nation!!!


And something Scotland already has by being part of the UK and the EU control and dictate over us all!!!


Scotland leaving the UK to gain national sovereignty and powers, and then immediately signing up to the EU is just giving it all straight back to the ones who currently already have all the sovereignty and powers!!!


Madness!!!



But I do know that although the snp leaders are eu stooges... large numbers of the rest of snp are against the idea of being run by the EU as much as many of the rest of us are!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:54 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Raggs... the snp is a fake Scottish national party, it is really just another pro eu party... the only party in Scotland that wants out of the EU is Ukip!!!


Also don't be fooled by the media and snp lies that most Scottish people want to be in the EU... it is just rubbish!!!



For the Scots to gain any major powers back... they need to be out of the EU as much as the rest of the UK does!!!



What matters is what people in Scotland want Tommy. 50% of them did not vote for the SNP in the election for a start. Those who did vote for them didn't necessarily do so because they want to stay in the EU. It's all a separate issue really.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:50 am

Eilzel wrote:I saw a poll a few days ago that said over 60% of Scots were pro-EU (over 70% of NI). Just a poll of course.
got to admit
I haven`t made my mind up and rags point is very valid because i am an SNP member Rolling Eyes

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:18 pm

Handy Andy wrote:My heart says leave, but my head says those telling us to leave (Boris, Gove,Farage,IDS, Rees-Mogg,Galloway) are all fruit loops and lack any decency and compassion.

This country seemed to do just fine before we were in.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:40 pm

If anyone thinks it is in our national interest to hand away control over our country and laws and borders... then it is YOU who is the fruit loop!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:20 pm

ommy Monk = George Galloway's love child.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:36 pm


Hand shandy... you say you hate Cameron and he's a lying shit etc... so why would you believe him when he says he's got some real changes and we're better off staying in the eu...?


Wouldn't you trust this persons opinion more...?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-mp-kate-hoey-why-leaving-the-eu-is-a-left-wing-move-a6687936.html

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:28 pm

Boris Johnson backs the UK to leave yhe eu dictatorship!!!


Laughing

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:35 pm

I think that a lot will depend on whether or not anything happens between now and June. If there's more trouble re refugees, another terrorist attack, more bossiness from Merkel and co, or another big story about benefits, etc, that will sway people. As it is, I think most will vote to keep the status quo.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:40 pm

There's supposed to be a stock market crash coming, but that won't affect anything in time to make a difference.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:50 pm

Raggs... anything more happens between now and June! ?


How much more do people need!!!???



Its a matter of national sovereignty and democracy that our country makes its own laws rules and regulations and is in control of our own borders!


None of this is currently happening while we are in the eu dictatorship!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Raggs... anything more happens between now and June! ?


How much more do people need!!!???



Its a matter of national sovereignty and democracy that our country makes its own laws rules and regulations and is in control of our own borders!


None of this is currently happening while we are in the eu dictatorship!

People forget things Tommy. They forget what was in the news a few weeks ago, or even yesterday.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:09 pm

All they need to remember is that control of our country has been handed away to the EU behind our backs, and to get it back we must vote to take it back by voting to leave the EU!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:43 pm

So many angry exclanation marks tommy. If only for your keyboard's sake I hope this vote goes better than you said the same-sex marriage debate and UKIP's GE performance would lol Wink

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:57 pm

Still arguing about style over substance les...


Answer the points... not comment on the exclamation points please... although there was only one in my previous post and used in a grammatically correct manner...



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:04 am

I don't care to argue with you over this. Victor yes, since he responds instead of just ignoring what others say and copying his same points over and over. You are just funny Smile

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:17 pm

Usual waffle from les when he can't argue against the points...



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:36 pm

And just to remind you les... Ukip got more votes than the lib dems and SNP combined!!!


Look at the poll at the top of this thread to get a good idea on what the likely outcome if the EU referendum will be!


Even if ALL the 'dont knows' change to voting in, then the out votes still have large majority!!!


Just hope the people of Britain are sensible enough to vote to get back the controls over our country that we never agreed to give away in the first place!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And just to remind you les... Ukip got more votes than the lib dems and SNP combined!!!


Look at the poll at the top of this thread to get a good idea on what the likely outcome if the EU referendum will be!


Even if ALL the 'dont knows' change to voting in, then the out votes still have large majority!!!


Just hope the people of Britain are sensible enough to vote to get back the controls over our country that we never agreed to give away in the first place!!!

Yes. UKIP got quite a lot of votes - nearly 13%. Their lack of seats won't count for anything in the referendum.

I still think the vote will be to stay though. Laughing

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And just to remind you les... Ukip got more votes than the lib dems and SNP combined!!!


Look at the poll at the top of this thread to get a good idea on what the likely outcome if the EU referendum will be!


Even if ALL the 'dont knows' change to voting in, then the out votes still have large majority!!!


Just hope the people of Britain are sensible enough to vote to get back the controls over our country that we never agreed to give away in the first place!!!

I never said UKIP didn't. But your words were that UKIP would take over 100 seats (or some such absurdity). You were also fairly certain same-sex marriage would not be passed into law. Even though equal marriage was not a public vote, it is pretty clear you tend to be way off with your predictions.

The EU vote is unpredictable. It may well be that we leave, all polls seem to be extremely close, and there is months off debate on both sides to come yet.

I really don't think you should trust the one above, I would be gobsmacked if the end result was over 70% in favour in leaving.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:11 pm

Waffle les...

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:40 pm

The vote will be 99% to leave.
Anything less, especially a vote to remain ,we be seen by Tom as a rigged vote by the lefties.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:43 pm

Handy Andy wrote:The vote will be 99% to leave.
Anything less, especially a vote to remain ,we be seen by Tom as a rigged vote by the lefties.

No way. The vote will be to stay - by about 65-70%.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:51 pm

I wonder if we leave....what do we trade with?
What hasn't been closed down has been sold off.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:07 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:The vote will be 99% to leave.
Anything less, especially a vote to remain ,we be seen by Tom as a rigged vote by the lefties.

No way. The vote will be to stay - by about 65-70%.

It was a piss take Raggs.
I think it will be 65/35 to stay in.
I have a lot of knowledge yet remain undecided.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:09 pm

Handy Andy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No way. The vote will be to stay - by about 65-70%.

It was a piss take Raggs.
I think it will be 65/35 to stay in.
I have a lot of knowledge yet remain undecided.

Ooooh, you agree with me then. That's a first. Laughing

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by eddie on Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:29 pm

Stormee wrote:Will the vote be rigged?

Yes. We will never be allowed to leave the EU.
This vote is a political appeaser.

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