EU in or out forum Poll

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EU in or out

32% 32% 
[ 7 ]
45% 45% 
[ 10 ]
23% 23% 
[ 5 ]
 
Total Votes : 22

EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:53 pm

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EU in or out

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:51 pm

I wonder how investments will fare if we pull out? Stocks and shares, the FTSE...a big nosedive affects peoples private pensions and investments...that could have a long term effect for millions of people. scratch

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:54 pm

Syl wrote:I wonder how investments will fare if we pull out? Stocks and shares, the FTSE...a big nosedive affects peoples private pensions and investments...that could have a long term effect for millions of people. scratch

Yes, I wonder about that too. I'm not sure how it would affect them, but it's one of the things I'll be looking at.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:06 pm

And the problem is Rags, in all the talk from different sides, who can we believe?
I don't have a head for figures...no doubt I for one will be blinded by waffle, and in any case....who really knows what will happen?

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:09 pm

Syl wrote:And the problem is Rags, in all the talk from different sides, who can we believe?
I don't have a head for figures...no doubt I for one will be blinded by waffle, and in any case....who really knows what will happen?

I think all you can do is look at the arguments and see if they make any sense. You don't really need a head for figures as such. Coming out the EU might make a difference to money invested in the UK I guess. If investors think that the UK might become economically unstable, they won't be prepared to invest in UK companies. If they think it will make the UK more stable or prosperous, they're likely to invest.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:09 pm

Syl wrote:I wonder how investments will fare if we pull out? Stocks and shares, the FTSE...a big nosedive affects peoples private pensions and investments...that could have a long term effect for millions of people. scratch

The majority of our population won't be affected by stocks and shares.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:11 pm

Syl wrote:And the problem is Rags, in all the talk from different sides, who can we believe?
I don't have a head for figures...no doubt I for one will be blinded by waffle, and in any case....who really knows what will happen?

Have you personally benefited from being in the EU?
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:13 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:I wonder how investments will fare if we pull out? Stocks and shares, the FTSE...a big nosedive affects peoples private pensions and investments...that could have a long term effect for millions of people. scratch

The majority of our population won't be affected by stocks and shares.

But stocks and shares affect pensions and investments HT, and many people have them hoping that long term they will provide financial security. They have had huge losses in the past when politicians have messed around with them...(I think Gordon Brown had a huge impact on reducing private pension values)
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:14 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:And the problem is Rags, in all the talk from different sides, who can we believe?
I don't have a head for figures...no doubt I for one will be blinded by waffle, and in any case....who really knows what will happen?

Have you personally benefited from being in the EU?

The simple answer is I don't know?
I don't know how things would have gone if we hadn't joined up in the first place.....so it's a confusing question.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:19 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Have you personally benefited from being in the EU?

The simple answer is I don't know?
I don't know how things would have gone if we hadn't joined up in the first place.....so it's a confusing question.

Well, I don't feel I have personally, though I'm sure some will argue on about the economy, trade and price of goods etc.   We can trade perfectly well with non EU countries and I don't think for one moment trade will stop.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:22 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

The simple answer is I don't know?
I don't know how things would have gone if we hadn't joined up in the first place.....so it's a confusing question.

Well, I don't feel I have personally, though I'm sure some will argue on about the economy, trade and price of goods etc.   We can trade perfectly well with non EU countries and I don't think for one moment trade will stop.

One problem is that many of the goods we used to trade with are no longer made here. Our industries have either been sold off or shut down.
We can buy a lot but what can we sell? our country has changed a lot since we joined the EU.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:23 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

The simple answer is I don't know?
I don't know how things would have gone if we hadn't joined up in the first place.....so it's a confusing question.

Well, I don't feel I have personally, though I'm sure some will argue on about the economy, trade and price of goods etc.   We can trade perfectly well with non EU countries and I don't think for one moment trade will stop.


Its not a case of trade stopping but how much more it will cost the Uk to trade

It will be about trying to arrange as good as we have now trade agreements.
The UK could end up be far worse off.

That is why no party can offer an guarantees and contingencies

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:24 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

The majority of our population won't be affected by stocks and shares.

But stocks and shares affect pensions and investments HT, and many people have them hoping that long term they will provide financial security. They have had huge losses in the past when politicians have messed around with them...(I think Gordon Brown had a huge impact on reducing private pension values)

That's right. Personal pensions are affected by the stock market, and presumably State pensions are as well.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:33 pm

I think a lot of people will vote out because of immigration, and it's a valid point, but there are lots of other things to consider to.
I haven't made my mind up yet and I don't know if it will be any clearer when the time comes.

It's like an election, politicians from both sides putting their own spin on things to persuade people to do what'll benefit them....not us.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:36 pm

Syl wrote:I think a lot of people will vote out because of immigration, and it's a valid point, but there are lots of other things to consider to.
I haven't made my mind up yet and I don't know if it will be any clearer when the time comes.

It's like an election, politicians from both sides putting their own spin on things to persuade people to do what'll benefit them....not us.


Eh?

Is that why UKIP only won one seat and at that with an ex-Tory?

It wont be down to immigration that will sway this, as if immigration was the issue UKIP would be in power. It will be down to control over British laws

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:37 pm

Syl wrote:I think a lot of people will vote out because of immigration, and it's a valid point, but there are lots of other things to consider to.
I haven't made my mind up yet and I don't know if it will be any clearer when the time comes.

It's like an election, politicians from both sides putting their own spin on things to persuade people to do what'll benefit them....not us.

It's worse than an election in some ways. In a General Election a lot of people know their vote won't really count anyway if they're voting against a candidate in a safe seat. In the referendum every vote will be important. It's a bit scary really. Surprised

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:41 pm

3.8 million people voted for UKIP in the last election, and those people may well vote in the referendum too. The number of seats that UKIP got is not relevant because it's a different system.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:3.8 million people voted for UKIP in the last election, and those people may well vote in the referendum too. The number of seats that UKIP got is not relevant because it's a different system.


Really?

Now tell me how many millions did not vote for UKIP

Its very relevant when you look at how little overall support UKIP has in the country

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:3.8 million people voted for UKIP in the last election, and those people may well vote in the referendum too. The number of seats that UKIP got is not relevant because it's a different system.


Really?

Now tell me how many millions did not vote for UKIP

Its very relevant when you look at how little overall support UKIP has in the country

You were equating their support with the number of seats they got. The point is that in the referendum each vote counts - it's not the same as a General Election where parties are hoping for a simple majority in each constituency.

I'm not claiming that UKIP supporters are going to swing it to a vote to leave.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:50 pm

Stormee wrote:When the EU was started, a famous person and friend, dead now, said this to me as I was against going in then.
"don't you want to buy butter at half the price you are paying now, don't you want cheap goods in general, don't you want your salary to go farther?"

I said, "prices will sky rocket", he Laffed at me.

Nowt muck was really said about multitudes of forumuz flooding here uninvited and unwelcome, scrounging, raping and killing, getting preference over our own people.

 I remember how the price of butter more than doubled.  

This link explains Britain's sojourn into the common market and EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9770633/The-EU-so-where-did-it-all-go-wrong.html
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


Really?

Now tell me how many millions did not vote for UKIP

Its very relevant when you look at how little overall support UKIP has in the country

You were equating their support with the number of seats they got. The point is that in the referendum each vote counts - it's not the same as a General Election where parties are hoping for a simple majority in each constituency.

I'm not claiming that UKIP supporters are going to swing it to a vote to leave.  


I am equating the fact they only have around 15% support, 85% do not support them

They only have one seat and only deserve one seat. I fail to see why local areas should have someone second end up running their area based not on the local vote by the people effected, but by an overall vote is just plain daft

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:I think a lot of people will vote out because of immigration, and it's a valid point, but there are lots of other things to consider to.
I haven't made my mind up yet and I don't know if it will be any clearer when the time comes.

It's like an election, politicians from both sides putting their own spin on things to persuade people to do what'll benefit them....not us.

It's worse than an election in some ways. In a General Election a lot of people know their vote won't really count anyway if they're voting against a candidate in a safe seat. In the referendum every vote will be important. It's a bit scary really. Surprised

Good points Rags.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:09 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You were equating their support with the number of seats they got. The point is that in the referendum each vote counts - it's not the same as a General Election where parties are hoping for a simple majority in each constituency.

I'm not claiming that UKIP supporters are going to swing it to a vote to leave.  


I am equating the fact they only have around 15% support, 85% do not support them

They only have one seat and only deserve one seat. I fail to see why local areas should have someone second end up running their area based not on the local vote by the people effected, but by an overall vote is just plain daft

This is not about seats in parliament, it's about a referendum. It's a completely different thing. It's not about local votes, and it's not about voting for political parties.

In the General election UKIP got nearly 13% of votes, but that's only representative of the people who actually turned out to vote.

Now I'm not going to assume that those 3.8 million all voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU - they might have voted for them as a protest against the main parties, or because they like Nigel Farage or something. However, I think it's fair to assume that most of them voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU. If they feel strongly about it, they are likely to turn out to vote in the referendum. I don't know what the general turnout will be. It's possible that a lot of people won't know which way to vote and won't bother to vote at all, but the UKIP supporters probably will.

In addition to that, UKIP didn't stand in all constituencies in the UK - they had candidates in 624 constituencies, so there may well be more supporters than you think - they just couldn't vote for UKIP because there was no option to do so.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:14 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


I am equating the fact they only have around 15% support, 85% do not support them

They only have one seat and only deserve one seat. I fail to see why local areas should have someone second end up running their area based not on the local vote by the people effected, but by an overall vote is just plain daft

This is not about seats in parliament, it's about a referendum. It's a completely different thing. It's not about local votes, and it's not about voting for political parties.

In the General election UKIP got nearly 13% of votes, but that's only representative of the people who actually turned out to vote.

Now I'm not going to assume that those 3.8 million all voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU - they might have voted for them as a protest against the main parties, or because they like Nigel Farage or something. However, I think it's fair to assume that most of them voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU. If they feel strongly about it, they are likely to turn out to vote in the referendum. I don't know what the general turnout will be. It's possible that a lot of people won't know which way to vote and won't bother to vote at all, but the UKIP supporters probably will.

In addition to that, UKIP didn't stand in all constituencies in the UK - they had candidates in 624 constituencies, so there may well be more supporters than you think - they just couldn't vote for UKIP because there was no option to do so.

I think the fact that UKIP even got votes shook up Cameron and the other parties, after all their dick waving and finger point and calling anyone who dared support them as inherently racist.   

I feel sorry for Greece.  They've been well and truly shafted with the strap on called Brussels.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:16 pm

Anyway, I don't think we'll ever get out of the EU.   It'll be fixed one way or the other.  I'll be very surprised if it swings to a majority out.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


I am equating the fact they only have around 15% support, 85% do not support them

They only have one seat and only deserve one seat. I fail to see why local areas should have someone second end up running their area based not on the local vote by the people effected, but by an overall vote is just plain daft

This is not about seats in parliament, it's about a referendum. It's a completely different thing. It's not about local votes, and it's not about voting for political parties.

In the General election UKIP got nearly 13% of votes, but that's only representative of the people who actually turned out to vote.

Now I'm not going to assume that those 3.8 million all voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU - they might have voted for them as a protest against the main parties, or because they like Nigel Farage or something. However, I think it's fair to assume that most of them voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU. If they feel strongly about it, they are likely to turn out to vote in the referendum. I don't know what the general turnout will be. It's possible that a lot of people won't know which way to vote and won't bother to vote at all, but the UKIP supporters probably will.

In addition to that, UKIP didn't stand in all constituencies in the UK - they had candidates in 624 constituencies, so there may well be more supporters than you think - they just couldn't vote for UKIP because there was no option to do so.


Again of those who turned out, again the vast majority did not vote for UKIP
If immigration was the key for people this would have come out by far more seats being won by UKIP
The fact is more than any other party UKIP had a high turn out of their supporters.
Many of UKIP voted for a variety of reasons and whilst along the way picked up many BNP supporters.
They are not a viable party mainly as their policies are poor to say the least

UKIP did not stand in all areas because of a simple reason, a lack of support in those areas. They had more reason than many to turn out and this was reflected by their one seat gain. The reality is their support was never as big as was claimed and more people care about what money they have in their pockets hence the Tory win

The point is there is no doubt actually more Tory supporters who want out of the EU than UKIP supporters.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:21 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:Anyway, I don't think we'll ever get out of the EU.   It'll be fixed one way or the other.  I'll be very surprised if it swings to a majority out.

Almost everyone I speak to about this say they will be voting out.

I have a suspicion the published vote will say IN though.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:24 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

This is not about seats in parliament, it's about a referendum. It's a completely different thing. It's not about local votes, and it's not about voting for political parties.

In the General election UKIP got nearly 13% of votes, but that's only representative of the people who actually turned out to vote.

Now I'm not going to assume that those 3.8 million all voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU - they might have voted for them as a protest against the main parties, or because they like Nigel Farage or something. However, I think it's fair to assume that most of them voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU. If they feel strongly about it, they are likely to turn out to vote in the referendum. I don't know what the general turnout will be. It's possible that a lot of people won't know which way to vote and won't bother to vote at all, but the UKIP supporters probably will.

In addition to that, UKIP didn't stand in all constituencies in the UK - they had candidates in 624 constituencies, so there may well be more supporters than you think - they just couldn't vote for UKIP because there was no option to do so.


Again of those who turned out, again the vast majority did not vote for UKIP
If immigration was the key for people this would have come out by far more seats being won by UKIP
The fact is more than any other party UKIP had a high turn out of their supporters.
Many of UKIP voted for a variety of reasons and whilst along the way picked up many BNP supporters.
They are not a viable party mainly as their policies are poor to say the least

UKIP did not stand in all areas because of a simple reason, a lack of support in those areas. They had more reason than many to turn out and this was reflected by their one seat gain. The reality is their support was never as big as was claimed and more people care about what money they have in their pockets hence the Tory win

The point is there is no doubt actually more Tory supporters who want out of the EU than UKIP supporters.

Of course the majority did not vote for UKIP but that doesn't mean that all Tory voters or Labour voters want to stay in the EU - it's not just UKIP voters who want to leave. Coming out of the EU isn't necessarily about immigration either, although I'm sure it plays a part.

People who didn't vote in the general election may well vote in the referendum, and vice versa. We don't know which way it will go yet, but in the run up there will a lot of speculation I'm sure.

UKIP doesn't need to be a viable party in the referendum - it's not about political parties - nobody is going to be voting for any political parties.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


Again of those who turned out, again the vast majority did not vote for UKIP
If immigration was the key for people this would have come out by far more seats being won by UKIP
The fact is more than any other party UKIP had a high turn out of their supporters.
Many of UKIP voted for a variety of reasons and whilst along the way picked up many BNP supporters.
They are not a viable party mainly as their policies are poor to say the least

UKIP did not stand in all areas because of a simple reason, a lack of support in those areas. They had more reason than many to turn out and this was reflected by their one seat gain. The reality is their support was never as big as was claimed and more people care about what money they have in their pockets hence the Tory win

The point is there is no doubt actually more Tory supporters who want out of the EU than UKIP supporters.

Of course the majority did not vote for UKIP but that doesn't mean that all Tory voters or Labour voters want to stay in the EU - it's not just UKIP voters who want to leave. Coming out of the EU isn't necessarily about immigration either, although I'm sure it plays a part.

People who didn't vote in the general election may well vote in the referendum, and vice versa. We don't know which way it will go yet, but in the run up there will a lot of speculation I'm sure.

UKIP doesn't need to be a viable party in the referendum - it's not about political parties - nobody is going to be voting for any political parties.


I already said more Tories will want out than UKIP supporters

UKIP will lose most of its support within the next couple of years

Watch and see

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:37 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Of course the majority did not vote for UKIP but that doesn't mean that all Tory voters or Labour voters want to stay in the EU - it's not just UKIP voters who want to leave. Coming out of the EU isn't necessarily about immigration either, although I'm sure it plays a part.

People who didn't vote in the general election may well vote in the referendum, and vice versa. We don't know which way it will go yet, but in the run up there will a lot of speculation I'm sure.

UKIP doesn't need to be a viable party in the referendum - it's not about political parties - nobody is going to be voting for any political parties.


I already said more Tories will want out than UKIP supporters

UKIP will lose most of its support within the next couple of years

Watch and see

I will certainly be interested to see what happens to UKIP Didge.

Have you decided which way to vote in the referendum? My problem is that if I can't decide, I'll probably abstain because each vote really will count, and if people don't really know how to vote, they'll be more reluctant to do so. In general elections I usually vote but then I know that whoever I vote for isn't likely to win anyway, so I don't need to vote with such conviction.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


I already said more Tories will want out than UKIP supporters

UKIP will lose most of its support within the next couple of years

Watch and see

I will certainly be interested to see what happens to UKIP Didge.

Have you decided which way to vote in the referendum? My problem is that if I can't decide, I'll probably abstain because each vote really will count, and if people don't really know how to vote, they'll be more reluctant to do so. In general elections I usually vote but then I know that whoever I vote for isn't likely to win anyway, so I don't need to vote with such conviction.


I want to see what the parties will say on the possible eventualities

I am more swaying to stay in, but this could change dependent on what is said before the referendum

I think people will chicken out when it comes to the crunch as again it will all boil down to money and jobs.

If the risk is this might be effected, many will bottle it Rags

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I will certainly be interested to see what happens to UKIP Didge.

Have you decided which way to vote in the referendum? My problem is that if I can't decide, I'll probably abstain because each vote really will count, and if people don't really know how to vote, they'll be more reluctant to do so. In general elections I usually vote but then I know that whoever I vote for isn't likely to win anyway, so I don't need to vote with such conviction.


I want to see what the parties will say on the possible eventualities

I am more swaying to stay in, but this could change dependent on what is said before the referendum

I think people will chicken out when it comes to the crunch as again it will all boil down to money and jobs.

If the risk is this might be effected, many will bottle it Rags

I agree. I think a lot people will say they're going to vote to come out, but they will bottle it because of the uncertainty. I think it will depend a lot on the opposing arguments though, and how valid they are perceived to be.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:51 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


I want to see what the parties will say on the possible eventualities

I am more swaying to stay in, but this could change dependent on what is said before the referendum

I think people will chicken out when it comes to the crunch as again it will all boil down to money and jobs.

If the risk is this might be effected, many will bottle it Rags

I agree. I think a lot people will say they're going to vote to come out, but they will bottle it because of the uncertainty. I think it will depend a lot on the opposing arguments though, and how valid they are perceived to be.


If a strong case can be made and EU nations also proposing that good trade agreements will happen, then there is a possibility

Otherwise as we both say, people will bottle it

I even reckon that if no strong cases are made, the out vote will be a white wash with about only 25% voting to leave

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:53 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I agree. I think a lot people will say they're going to vote to come out, but they will bottle it because of the uncertainty. I think it will depend a lot on the opposing arguments though, and how valid they are perceived to be.


If a strong case can be made and EU nations also proposing that good trade agreements will happen, then there is a possibility

Otherwise as we both say, people will bottle it

I even reckon that if no strong cases are made, the out vote will be a white wash with about only 25% voting to leave

I'm thinking more along the lines of 35-40% voting to leave, but it's just a guess.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:08 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


If a strong case can be made and EU nations also proposing that good trade agreements will happen, then there is a possibility

Otherwise as we both say, people will bottle it

I even reckon that if no strong cases are made, the out vote will be a white wash with about only 25% voting to leave

I'm thinking more along the lines of 35-40% voting to leave, but it's just a guess.


Interesting.

I see lower, but again this will depend on who reasons best and gives guarantees and contingencies

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:10 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

This is not about seats in parliament, it's about a referendum. It's a completely different thing. It's not about local votes, and it's not about voting for political parties.

In the General election UKIP got nearly 13% of votes, but that's only representative of the people who actually turned out to vote.

Now I'm not going to assume that those 3.8 million all voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU - they might have voted for them as a protest against the main parties, or because they like Nigel Farage or something. However, I think it's fair to assume that most of them voted for UKIP because they want to leave the EU. If they feel strongly about it, they are likely to turn out to vote in the referendum. I don't know what the general turnout will be. It's possible that a lot of people won't know which way to vote and won't bother to vote at all, but the UKIP supporters probably will.

In addition to that, UKIP didn't stand in all constituencies in the UK - they had candidates in 624 constituencies, so there may well be more supporters than you think - they just couldn't vote for UKIP because there was no option to do so.


Again of those who turned out, again the vast majority did not vote for UKIP
If immigration was the key for people this would have come out by far more seats being won by UKIP
The fact is more than any other party UKIP had a high turn out of their supporters.
Many of UKIP voted for a variety of reasons and whilst along the way picked up many BNP supporters.
They are not a viable party mainly as their policies are poor to say the least

UKIP did not stand in all areas because of a simple reason, a lack of support in those areas. They had more reason than many to turn out and this was reflected by their one seat gain. The reality is their support was never as big as was claimed and more people care about what money they have in their pockets hence the Tory win

The point is there is no doubt actually more Tory supporters who want out of the EU than UKIP supporters.



You forget that tory promised to bring immigration down to tens of thousands too!


And promised the eu referendum!!


Why would so many people want a eu referendum if they were happy with the current state of affairs...!?



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:


Again of those who turned out, again the vast majority did not vote for UKIP
If immigration was the key for people this would have come out by far more seats being won by UKIP
The fact is more than any other party UKIP had a high turn out of their supporters.
Many of UKIP voted for a variety of reasons and whilst along the way picked up many BNP supporters.
They are not a viable party mainly as their policies are poor to say the least

UKIP did not stand in all areas because of a simple reason, a lack of support in those areas. They had more reason than many to turn out and this was reflected by their one seat gain. The reality is their support was never as big as was claimed and more people care about what money they have in their pockets hence the Tory win

The point is there is no doubt actually more Tory supporters who want out of the EU than UKIP supporters.



You forget that tory promised to bring immigration down to tens of thousands too!


And promised the eu referendum!!


Why would so many people want a eu referendum if they were happy with the current state of affairs...!?




Just wait and see Tommy had badly the out vote will end up being

Again its like an election, as when it comes to job and income, that is what will matter first and foremost to people

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:29 pm

You fool!


They are two of the reasons why people want out!!!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:45 pm

Dodge said...

G

The point is there is no doubt actually more Tory supporters who want out of the EU than UKIP supporters.





3.8 million voted Ukip because they want out of eu!!!

And if you're right about your above statement then that would mean another 4 million + people ready you vote out!!!


So we're up to 8 million + people ready to vote out now!!!


Then add on all the others...


lol!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:48 pm

8 million is like I said 25% based on the numbers who voted in the last election

Best you do your calculations again Tommy

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:07 pm

Dodge... what makes you think turnout will be more like that of gen election and not more like that of eu elections...?


Turnout for eu elections is normally quite low at only about 30% and Ukip got most votes last time round... actually getting even more votes than they got in gen election... ukip eu elec total votes were just under 4.4 million compared to the 3.8 million at gen election... with labour getting 4 million and tory 3.8 million...


You can interpret these figures in a number of different ways... but it is clear that if turnout is low then the Ukip voters coupled with the tory outs and the large but underestimated number of labour outs will lead to an overwhelming vote to leave!


If there are so many people who obviously don't care about the eu enough to bother to vote in the eu elections then shows how the british people consider it to be something that they dont really want and in fact shows a distinct lack of respect for it and even contempt for it by completely ignoring it all at eu election time...


So I can't see how huge numbers are going to care about the eu enough to bother going to vote to stay in it!!!


It is going to be mainly those with strong feelings about our need to get out of the EU and regain control over our country that will be those who care enough to bother voting!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:13 pm

It was 66% turnout the biggest in years in the general election

Again what matters most to people is jobs, job security and income

This will be the deciding factor in the EU referendum

People will be too much in fear to go into the unknown, as it will be seen as too much of a risk

You clearly do not understand the history of elections or the people of this country

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:47 pm

That was the gen election dodge... with tory getting 11 million votes... which was 2 million more than labour... and Ukip got more votes than the lib dems and snp combined!!!


So people overwhelmingly voted for the promise to reduce immigration and for a eu referendum!!!


If tory hadn't promised to do this then Ukip votes would have been much much higher!!!


But what I'm saying is that this is not a general election is it...!?

It is a eu referendum...

And in eu elections the turnout is always very low!!!


Only 16 million bothered to vote in 2014 eu elections...


4.4 million for UKIP... another 300.000 for other referendum party's... nearly 200,000 for the bnp who were also calling for a referendum... and 3.8million for tory who were also talking about giving a referendum!!!


Half of the labour 4 million who bothered to vote would probably also vote out...


As I said... if people aren't really that bothered to vote in eu elections then they obviously don't really care about it that much... so low chance of them bothering to vote to keep us in it!!!






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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:49 pm

This is a referendum, so going off an EU election is moot

You need to think your points through

Again what will matter is what job security and money for people

It always has

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:51 pm

Mass immigration of cheap labour = less job security for British people as well as lower wages on top of higher costs of living!!!


Public services/schools/hospitals/transport also worsened for British people as more and more foreign people turn up adding extra burden on it all!!!


More of the same if people vote to Remain!!!


But only part of the argument as to why we have to get out the eu cluster fuck!!!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:54 pm

Again that is not what is going to decide things Tommy

What will be the deciding factor is money and jobs

You do not understand people

People may whine and moan about things but they know what matters more at the end of the day

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:03 am

In the last general election, people overwhelmingly voted for the promise to reduce immigration and for a eu referendum!!!



We cannot reduce immigration unless we regain control over our country/laws/borders... and we cannot regain control over this unless we leave the eu... and we cannot leave the eu unless we have a referendum and vote to leave!!!



People didn't vote for getting back control over our country and borders and for a eu referendum to achieve this, just to then vote for more eu and more open door immigration madness!!!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:10 am

Dodge said...

What will be the deciding factor is money and jobs



And my answer was completely about money and jobs!!!



Being in the eu = continued mass immigration of cheap labour = less job security for British people as well as lower wages on top of higher costs of living!!!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:31 am




"The EU was created by the Maastricht Treaty, which entered into force on November 1, 1993"

http://www.britannica.com/topic/European-Union



The British people did not give consent to this fundamental constitutional change and transfer of sovereignty and parliamentary/governmental powers...!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:18 am

Again leaving Tommy brings much uncertainty, which again will mean risk and risk means the possibility of issues with Jobs and wages

This is what you fail to grasp and its not what you think should happen, but what parties propose and will implement that is what matters.



Anyway the one aspect on immigrants and refugees will certainly now for sure get worse for the Uk as now by the following:











EU referendum: France issues Calais migrant crisis warning over Brexit - live
Migrants and refugees would not be stopped from crossing the Channel if Britain opts to leave Europe, French economy minister says


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181749/EU-referendum-France-issues-Calais-migrant-warning-over-British-EU-referendum-live.html

I mean if France is going to do this, what else will it do, if the UK leaves?


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