EU in or out forum Poll

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EU in or out

32% 32% 
[ 7 ]
45% 45% 
[ 10 ]
23% 23% 
[ 5 ]
 
Total Votes : 22

EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:53 pm

EU in or out

Guest
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:09 am

My heart says leave, but my head says those telling us to leave (Boris, Gove,Farage,IDS, Rees-Mogg,Galloway) are all fruit loops and lack any decency and compassion.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:49 am

Get out and welcome to high unemployment and rising prices on everything. Economic laws can be coaxed but not controverted -- sorry to say.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:01 am

I don't know yet. I do look forward to more of Mr Farage's speeches though.

I think a few things need to be taken into account. Do the British people feel "European" enough to stay in the EU? Are they fed up with being told what to do by Europe? How would coming out affect the economy - employment, etc? Then there's the immigration issue. No matter how much people complain about racism, there are genuine concerns about overcrowding in this country.

I think it would be interesting to come out - just to see what happens really, but that's probably not a good enough reason.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:16 am

The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:21 am

Handy Andy wrote:The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

Yes, it's a big risk - I agree. I think that will persuade a lot of people to vote to stay. It'll be interesting to see who has the bottle to vote to leave. Laughing

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:00 pm

Do you want our parliament to make our laws/rules/regulations and for us to have control over our borders or do you want to be dictated to by Brussels and have open door to 500 million people...?


That is the fundamental choice!



Trade is the only argument for the EU and trade will continue after we left... but there is much more to the EU than just the simple trade arrangement that it is only supposed to be... it is a political construct that now controls 75-85% of our laws/rules/tegulations (much of which is against our national interest and at huge cost to the taxpayer and to businesses!) and it is seeking to evdntually get 100% control!!!


This is not what was voted for in 1975!!!


And we have been consistently lied to and tricked into giving more and more power away with every treaty signed since then!!!


We don't want or need the EU dictatorship to trade with the rest of the EU nations!


The EU sells us much more than we sell to them... so they will not stop wanting to sell us stuff if we leave!!!



The only way to get back control over our country, laws and borders is to leave the eu political dictatorship!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:10 pm

You forget to mention that immigration and repatriation of non UK citizens works both ways. Kick out the Eastern Europeans and they WILL reciprocate. 2 million Brits presently enjoy working in Europe hassle free. That would stop overnight, and everyone would have to apply for a work permit and residents permit as would non Brits here.
I am unconvinced that remaining in is great at present - but those who promote leaving are doing so with blinkered vision- it will create as many problems as it it is likely to resolve.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:14 pm

Bollocks!!!


There are hardly any brits in eastern Europe for a start!!!


And the vast majority of brits in the rest of Europe are wealthy retirees who contribute massively to the local economies and create jobs and wealth where they are!!!


And I'm sure they will be most welcome to carry on doing so!!!


Or they will be most welcome in plenty of other countries to spend their money!!!



Your argument is just pure waffle and fear mongering!!!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:19 pm

lefty "fear based arguements"? again?????????



If the lefties love europe so much they will be quite welcome to bugger off over there and live as good compliant europeans...they can indulge themselves in NEVER again having to think about politics.....because they wont be allowed to...


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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:27 pm

Handy Andy wrote:The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

That's a very good point. Something for the raging anti-EU bulls should consider.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:42 pm

It's a terrible point!!!


Once we leave the eu dictatorship, why would we want to join up and sign away control of our country and parliament again!?


And have to pay £55 million a day to be told what to do!?


If we were told the truth about the EU back in 1975, we would never have signed up in the first place!!!


And we certainly wouldn't be joining up now we know what it is!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's a terrible point!!!


Once we leave the eu dictatorship, why would we want to join up and sign away control of our country and parliament again!?


And have to pay £55 million a day to be told what to do!?


If we were told the truth about the EU back in 1975, we would never have signed up in the first place!!!


And we certainly wouldn't be joining up now we know what it is!!!

Think hypothetically tommy.

If we leave the EU and it DOESN'T turn out so well, THEN we would have renogiate our reentry into the union. And the terms will be nothing like we can expect now.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:53 pm

Fear based waffle! !

We leave and get back control over our country, laws and borders... trade carries on as before...!


What will happen is that we all wonder why we were ever in the political dictatorship in the first place!!!


We will not want to join again!!!


And we would never joined up in the first place if we were told the truth about what it was!!!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:55 pm

It may be fear based - but better the devil you kniw than walking blindly into the unknown.
The out will lose.
Led by UKIP , losing is a habit.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Fear based waffle! !

We leave and get back control over our country, laws and borders... trade carries on as before...!


What will happen is that we all wonder why we were ever in the political dictatorship in the first place!!!


We will not want to join again!!!


And we would never joined up in the first place if we were told the truth about what it was!!!

Just blind rage with you. You can't even bring yourself to respond to a hypothetical. Just blind rage.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:03 pm

Unknown!!!???


We know very well what having control over our country and laws and borders is like!!!


We had this before we signed it all away to the EU!!!


Now is our chance to get our country back!!!


Last edited by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:08 pm

Les... you are talking shit!


Why would we ever want to rejoin the EU dictatorship!?


Trade will carry on the same and security is about our own military and being in nato...


Our security is deeply compromised by having open border to over half a billion foreign nationals and open to any number of terrorists who manage to blag a eu passport!

We are also unable to deport foreign ncriminals because of our eu membership!


I can't see anything good about us being in the eu!


Can you...!?

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:16 pm

Still not addressing the hypothetical. Unless I lost it under all the exclamation points?!?!?!

I just remembered why I don't bother with you much these days.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:21 pm

Why would we ever want to rejoin the EU dictatorship!?


Trade will carry on the same and security is about our own military and being in nato... 


Our security is deeply compromised by having open border to over half a billion foreign nationals and open to any number of terrorists who manage to blag a eu passport!

We are also unable to deport foreign ncriminals because of our eu membership!


I can't see anything good about us being in the eu!


Can you...!?

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:38 pm

funny how a hypothetical fear based argument is allowable when the lefties are running scared and it suits them

"oh lets all give in to fear and snuggle up to the dictators in europe"

but when people pose genuine reasns for fear based on something the left DONT like...like immigration...it becomes a different story

THEN its you are all pussies
your argument is invalid cos its fear based


well lads the boot is on the other foot...its YOU thats running scared....


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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:40 pm

heres two more points

the recent floods were mde FAR worse than they need have been due to EU rulings and policy

and

I just found out

the welsh govt is trying to encourage farmers to plant trees...a much needed and laudable move...

the EU is opposing this by having policies that DEMAND land clerence and remove payments from under the CAP schemes for any farmer that plants trees...

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:42 pm

Two good posts there Elmer!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:45 pm

Open door to East Europeans and this is what is happening...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35612409

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Eilzel on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:50 pm

Lord Foul wrote:funny how a hypothetical fear based argument is allowable when the lefties are running scared and it suits them

"oh lets all give in to fear and snuggle up to the dictators in europe"

but when people pose genuine reasns for fear based on something the left DONT like...like immigration...it becomes a different story

THEN its you are all pussies
your argument is invalid cos its fear based


well lads the boot is on the other foot...its YOU thats running scared....


Rather different.

Fear of immigration leads to innocents suffering on the grounds that 'possibly' one or two bad eggs get through the net.

Saying what could happen if we leave the EU is not fear mongering. You think there would be NO reprecussions of leaving the EU? Short term AND long term? We can just walk out and nothing will happen other than our golden ascension to the heights of the Pax Britannica?

That is unrealistic. This isn't the 1920s. The world has changed and countries are better off together (see the arguments made repeatedly during the Scottish in or out debate). Plus, there would be economic instability immediately upon leaving the EU. It is ludicrous not to think there would be.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:59 pm

We can trade with Europe, we can cooperate with Europe... WITHOUT BEING RUN BY EU!



We don't want of need our country/borders/laws/rules/regulations etc to be controlled by Brussels just to do a bit of trade with European countries!


We can trade with them and run our own country and make our own laws and rules through our own national parliament.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:02 pm

AND...we will have 55 million a DAY to "offset" any possible losses....

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:04 pm

And Tommy has a good point..THERE IS NO reason why we shouldnt trade with, (and have a trading union with) the EU....but that is where it should stop....


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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:09 pm

They sell us much more than we sell them... so trade will continue just the same.


They will not hike up their prices with tariffs if it means we buy less from them!


The suggestion that trade will be affected is pure rubbish!


And if we can carry on trading then what is the point of being in the eu at all!?


Plenty of other countries trade with eu without being run by eu!


It's all a sham!

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by eddie on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:48 pm

Can I just say that perhaps it's a generational thing too?
Those of us that remember what it was like to NOT be in the EU and remember how we were lied to about it, are possibly realising that we are better off out of it.

It seems to be people in their early thirties and younger, who wish to stay in.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:55 pm

Also, those who are older might not be so worried about jobs and that kind of thing. They might want to retire to Spain though ... Laughing

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by eddie on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:57 pm

Well yes rags, there's always that lol

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:18 pm

Swayed by fear mongering eddie... and probably huge amounts of pro eu propaganda through school etc...

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:23 pm

Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by eddie on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:31 pm

Syl wrote:Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's

....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

Good luck with that Syl Neutral

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:49 pm

and here's another reason....

since one particular member of this disreputable parcel of rogues decided to act unilaterally

Up to 5,000 Europeans have returned to the continent after being trained at terrorist camps, the head of Europol has reportedly said.

Rob Wainwright claimed Europe is facing its biggest terror threat in more than 10 years and has warned of large-scale attacks by IS and other groups.

The head of the EU law enforcement agency said: "The growing number of foreign fighters presents the EU countries with completely new challenges."

At least 700 people from the UK have travelled to support or fight for jihadist groups in Syria and Iraq, according to police, and about half have since returned.

Mr Wainwright's comments to Germany's Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung newspaper come after November's Paris attacks in which 130 people were killed.


from http://news.sky.com/story/1645171/warning-of-up-to-5000-jihadists-in-europe

cheers mrs merkel.... Rolling Eyes

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:54 pm

Syl wrote:Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.


What is it you want to know or are unsure about Syl...?



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by nicko on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:03 pm

By what right do these unelected people make laws that we are supposed to follow? Did you vote for them? I DID NOT.I voted for TRADE with the EU, and that's all. Who are they to say who we can and cannot allow into our country? By the same token who are they to say we can't kick out who we want to? Lets make our OWN laws as we used to, and get out of this mess.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by feelthelove on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:12 pm

nicko wrote:By what right do these unelected people make laws that we are supposed to follow?    Did you vote for them? I DID NOT.I voted for TRADE with the EU, and that's all. Who are they to say who we can and cannot allow into our country? By the same token who are they to say we can't kick out who we want to? Lets make our OWN laws as we used to, and get out of this mess.

I think that's a lot of peoples reason to want to exit the EU Nicko, we are sick and tired of our decisions in the courts being overruled.  I voted unsure because I still don't fully understand the economic implications  

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:30 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's

....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.

Good luck with that Syl Neutral

Thanks...I have the migraine tablets on stand by.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:Voted not sure.
In the next few weeks I will try and make head or tail of the in's and out's....then try and decide who is lying and who is not.


What is it you want to know or are unsure about Syl...?



Everything, including how it'll affect me and mine.
People in work, people out of work, home owners, renters, the NHS, schools, investments, pensions, prices, inflation, savings, travelling abroad, immigration, emigration....that's off the top of my head.
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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:38 pm

Economic implications are that trade continues with eu... they continue selling us BMWs and Mercedes and wine and cheese etc... and we stop paying £55 million a day to the EU for them to tell us what to do!


We also retake our seat at the world trade organisation as well as being free to open up trade with other countries in the world under conditions we want that are for our national good!


Also we can limit who and how many people can come here and thereby reduce pressure and costs on our public services!



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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by feelthelove on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Economic implications are that trade continues with eu... they continue selling us BMWs and Mercedes and wine and cheese etc... and we stop paying  £55 million a day to the EU for them to tell us what to do!


We also retake our seat at the world trade organisation as well as being free to open up trade with other countries in the world under conditions we want that are for our national good!


Also we can limit who and how many people can come here and thereby reduce pressure and costs on our public services!



Well, when you put it like that Tommy No down sides then?

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:43 pm

Yes...sounds good, till someone comes up with the counter arguments.

I think if you are not going off a gut reaction it takes thought to decide.

My gut reaction is to leave btw.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:33 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Get out and welcome to high unemployment and rising prices on everything. Economic laws can be coaxed but not controverted -- sorry to say.
the EU already has that in spades. The UK trades more with country's outside the EU than within. People seem to think trade with the eU would stop the minute we would leave. I am pretty sure BMW, VW and mercedes might not like that. the EU sells us more than we sell them.
Stellios of easy jet fame says flights will be more expensive, although that may only be flights to the EU where you pay extra taxes that you don't pay to non eu country's.
America didn't do to badly from breaking away did it?

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:42 pm

Handy Andy wrote:You forget to mention that immigration and repatriation of non UK citizens works both ways. Kick out the Eastern Europeans and they WILL reciprocate. 2 million Brits presently enjoy working in Europe hassle free. That would stop overnight, and everyone would have to apply for a work permit and residents permit as would non Brits here.
I am unconvinced that remaining in is great at present - but those who promote leaving are doing so with blinkered vision- it will create as many problems as it it is likely to resolve.
those who live abroad would be able to apply for residence in the country's they live in, just as EU citizens would be allowed to do so in the UK.

#Brexit will not see a mass exodus of those EU citizens who live in the UK by suddenly being deported, nor will it see expats being kicked out of europe in their millions.

#Brexit is not about immigration, trade, border control or any of the side issues some people seem fixated on, it is about the UK regaining sovereignty and by doing that all the rest will fall into line and be the responsibility of the government of the day. Those government can then be held entirely responsible for any success's or failures and wont be able to blame outside laws or EU directives.

the UK may no longer be an empire, but it is certainly better than being a glorified council. I want the UK to be in charge of its own destiny, not have an unelected bunch of eurocrats dictating from on high what can and cannot be done.


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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:43 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:The big problem is it is easier to remain than to rejoin if we find to our cost that leaving was a huge mistake.
The EU won't welcome us back unless it is entirely on their terms.

That's a very good point. Something for the raging anti-EU bulls should consider.
something an independent scotland should also take note of.

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Re: EU in or out forum Poll

Post by The Devil, You Know on Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:45 pm

Handy Andy wrote:It may be fear based - but better the devil you kniw than walking blindly into the unknown.
The out will lose.
Led by UKIP , losing is a habit.
UKIP are not leading the out campaign. In fact farage and galloway may well be hindering it.
this is not about personalities it is about whether the UK should govern itself or not.

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