Taking the meaning of racism too far.

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Post by Syl on Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3454987/Two-college-students-cause-racism-furore-posing-blacked-selfie-undergoing-facial-treatment.html

OMG....talk about over reacting.

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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:39 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:


By demeaning Quill based off a falsified claim?

It was funny. Don't be so sensitive and precious didge.


I am sure it was funny to you to demean someone Eddie

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Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

The reason why you have that impression, is that for a culture to develop an attitude about a certain race, it takes centuries and centuries.  Because of the military dominance of the white race over Africans, in particular, we have not seen a historical pattern of racism toward whites.

It is conceivable.  We just haven't experienced a culture that has that theme.

Military dominance has been exercised throughout history, so in that case, you can trace it back to the Ottoman Empire,  Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, and beyond.
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Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:43 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang

It was Rochdale, not Rotherham.

The main issue was whether or not a blind eye was turned by the authorities for fear of being labelled "racist".

It was Rotherham, at least the one I'm referring to. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

Sorry about that. I remember the Rochdale thing, but lost track a bit after that.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I mean you really think that non-white people can't be racist, only prejudiced.

I've never seen an African or Asian culture that is built upon institutions of prejudice against white people.  As the world has shaped up, historically, the white race has had the advantage technologically and militarily.  That advantage has caused most 'other' race/cultures to be jealous and covetous of white peoples, but not racist (judgmentally superior).

Meh...perhaps the Empire of Japan in the earlier part of last century.

  Here in the UK we have Asian gangs who specifically target whites.   

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race
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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:49 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Perhaps, yes.  Sounds a good example.  

But I can't say, because I've never heard of Rotherham, or a rapist associated with it.

(OK, I've just Googled it...it's a town in south Yorkshire.  I've not been there.)

I think all whites, though perhaps not prejudiced, still participate in a culture that is racist.  I, in particular, enjoy participation in a culture that has disadvantaged black people.

I think the majority of white people abhor racism, I know I do.    We can only imagine what it's like, until we get a taster for ourselves, like those poor girls in Rotherham.   To be gang raped by a group of Asian men because you're white, which is basically what happened. And because the UK is overly PC, nobody dared step in to stop it for fear of being labelled 'racist' or rocking the multicultural boat.  Therefore it went on for years. 1,400 girls.  300 men.

First point flawed reasoning attempting to gauge a multitude of views of people based on yourself.
Again centering and acknowledging racism when its whites suffering this.
I suppose the country was also PC on celebrities as well?
Or countless children s homes where for decades there was no justice.
Its very easy to unravel the views of a poster, when they continually avoid talking about the issue of the debate and steer it onto another topic, which it seems you want to sound off on.
Knock yourself out.
White minorities suffer racism in this country and have done so for centuries


When PC is applied correctly, it is faultless, as the concept is faultless. What often happens instead is where people attempt to apply it and it then ends up discriminating against someone else. When that happens it cannot be PC. As that would conflict with the principles of PC.

A multitude of reasons led to the grooming gangs, all of which fundamentally fall down to simply one and only reason. The victims were rendered irrelevant by those who were in authority. Its down to people to act, PC never made that happen, regressive contradictory view points allowed that to happen, but again none of this accounts for again with tens of thousands of other convicted child sex offenders, some took decades to bring to justice. Which points to the one biggest cause and failing to the victim. They were not believed.

That is your real root cause

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Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:53 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I think the majority of white people abhor racism, I know I do.    We can only imagine what it's like, until we get a taster for ourselves, like those poor girls in Rotherham.   To be gang raped by a group of Asian men because you're white, which is basically what happened. And because the UK is overly PC, nobody dared step in to stop it for fear of being labelled 'racist' or rocking the multicultural boat.  Therefore it went on for years. 1,400 girls.  300 men.

First point flawed reasoning attempting to gauge a multitude of views of people based on yourself.
Again centering and acknowledging racism when its whites suffering this.
I suppose the country was also PC on celebrities as well?
Or countless children s homes where for decades there was no justice.
Its very easy to unravel the views of a poster, when they continually avoid talking about the issue of the debate and steer it onto another topic, which it seems you want to sound off on.
Knock yourself out.
White minorities suffer racism in this country and have done so for centuries


When PC is applied correctly, it is faultless, as the concept is faultless. What often happens instead is where people attempt to apply it and it then ends up discriminating against someone else. When that happens it cannot be PC. As that would conflict with the principles of PC.

A multitude of reasons led to the grooming gangs, all of which fundamentally fall down to simply one and only reason. The victims were rendered irrelevant by those who were in authority. Its down to people to act, PC never made that happen, regressive contradictory view points allowed that to happen, but again none of this accounts for again with tens of thousands of other convicted child sex offenders, some took decades to bring to justice. Which points to the one biggest cause and failing to the victim. They were not believed.

That is your real root cause

God, you're boring.............
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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:57 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've never seen an African or Asian culture that is built upon institutions of prejudice against white people.  As the world has shaped up, historically, the white race has had the advantage technologically and militarily.  That advantage has caused most 'other' race/cultures to be jealous and covetous of white peoples, but not racist (judgmentally superior).

Meh...perhaps the Empire of Japan in the earlier part of last century.

  Here in the UK we have Asian gangs who specifically target whites.   

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race

You seem only to be interested in just a select amount of child offenders to talk.

Here is over 40,000 known child sex offenders for you to fundamentally understand how many victim suffer child abuse. Not just the ones who suffered with grooming gangs, as all the victims are important
Time you understood that.
You also seem more interested that some child offenders are Asian, as if to use the victims make some racial point. Not only is that poor and ill conceived, it is agenda driven



Taking the meaning of racism too far. - Page 9 Cropped-cropped-55

http://theukdatabase.com/

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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:58 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:

First point flawed reasoning attempting to gauge a multitude of views of people based on yourself.
Again centering and acknowledging racism when its whites suffering this.
I suppose the country was also PC on celebrities as well?
Or countless children s homes where for decades there was no justice.
Its very easy to unravel the views of a poster, when they continually avoid talking about the issue of the debate and steer it onto another topic, which it seems you want to sound off on.
Knock yourself out.
White minorities suffer racism in this country and have done so for centuries


When PC is applied correctly, it is faultless, as the concept is faultless. What often happens instead is where people attempt to apply it and it then ends up discriminating against someone else. When that happens it cannot be PC. As that would conflict with the principles of PC.

A multitude of reasons led to the grooming gangs, all of which fundamentally fall down to simply one and only reason. The victims were rendered irrelevant by those who were in authority. Its down to people to act, PC never made that happen, regressive contradictory view points allowed that to happen, but again none of this accounts for again with tens of thousands of other convicted child sex offenders, some took decades to bring to justice. Which points to the one biggest cause and failing to the victim. They were not believed.

That is your real root cause

God, you're boring.............


So boring it seems, it renders you unable to counter anything and offer up instead for all to see your low levels of maturity.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:13 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The reason why you have that impression, is that for a culture to develop an attitude about a certain race, it takes centuries and centuries.  Because of the military dominance of the white race over Africans, in particular, we have not seen a historical pattern of racism toward whites.

It is conceivable.  We just haven't experienced a culture that has that theme.

Military dominance has been exercised throughout history, so in that case, you can trace it back to the Ottoman Empire,  Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, and beyond.

You are talking about 'military success'.

Military dominance takes centuries to establish. That said, I think the Roman civilization would qualify.

The Ottoman Empire existed from 1299 to 1923, but was mostly inferior to the western European cultures--likely the reason why they were checked in the west.

Taking the meaning of racism too far. - Page 9 Clip_image0029

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Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:12 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

God, you're boring.............


So boring it seems, it renders you unable to counter anything and offer up instead for all to see your low levels of maturity.

I would if I could be arsed trawling through your loggerhea.  

Try being  concise.
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Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Military dominance has been exercised throughout history, so in that case, you can trace it back to the Ottoman Empire,  Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, and beyond.

You are talking about 'military success'.  

Military dominance takes centuries to establish.  That said, I think the Roman civilization would qualify.  

The Ottoman Empire existed from 1299 to 1923, but was mostly inferior to the western European cultures--likely the reason why they were checked in the west.

Taking the meaning of racism too far. - Page 9 Clip_image0029

yes, but people were enslaved, just as they were in America.   Is slavery racist?   It seems that way to me.   Also, the extermination of a whole culture or population merely at the whim of those who hate them?  Surely racist.
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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:
Racism to me is looking down on someone else because of their colour or origin.
I don't think it has to be steeped in history, many people are racist who have never picked a history book up in their lives, they just see a difference and hate it.
Prejudice is the attitude, or 'pre' judging someone or something.  It is a single act.
Anything that has a suffix of 'ism' is generally describing a widely held theme.  Capitalism?  Communism?  Pluralism?  Even 'tourism' or 'tribalism' are widely distributed phenomena.

Racism is therefore the broadly distributed idea that races can be distinguished from one another: a class of people can be identified and discussed.  But more...it is the idea that the class of people exist in hierarchical relation to one another, one somehow better or superior than the other.  Racism is a kind of plural judgment of the worth of a certain class of individuals.

In order to held and believed, it must be cultural.  It must be a part of the language, and the values, beliefs and symbols of a culture.  In order to achieve that status it must be infused into the fabric of the culture.  Therefore, racism is inevitably historical.  You can't have a social theme that was just invented yesterday...although with TV advertising, they do try.  Lol.

Interesting read, just now and if people would read without their 'preconceived/narrow minded notions' --- well, that well written explanation would clarify {or hopefully clarify} much of the reasons that the Racial Conversation is so needed...even in this the 21st century.

Even with the 'Black History Month' that we are reading/hearing and seeing so much media attention given over to this single issue; the amount of positive comments on FB are far out numbered by the horrid/vile/vitriolic filled rants and shameful remarks by the lesser-thinking humans! Frightening is what those people will put out on a FB page for their friends and family and extension of FB friends and family...etc., etc., etc., and pretty soon even their employers are catching wind of their vile hate filled POV and then there's another unemployed American! Standing around with just more angst & vile hatred for the 'BLACK HISTORY MONTH' human life forms, instead of looking/owning up to his/her putrid anger that got them fired.

If you ever have an opportunity to go spend a week in any grammar/middle school class room; pick up any given history book --- if you are able to get past all of the typo's and really blatant wrong information in those mass printed scholastic books --- count the number of pages that reflect on the BLACK: slaves/landowners/teachers/inventors/musicians/elected officials/movie producers etc., etc., etc., And you'd be {well perhaps} shocked by the few honorable mentioned of that one single race...
And that good folks is why - WHY, we have to keep providing such BLM {black lives matter}, Black History Month, NAACP {national association for the advancement of colored people = all races not just black}...all of my generation, the prior generations and sadly the current generations are being deprived of their very historical value for how the history of American built what it has now --- even just for the infrastructure of transportation - OUR HISTORY BOOKS ARE DEVOID OF THAT BLACK RACE CONTRIBUTIONS AND IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

Unfortunately; it's going to take an act of 'GOD' to get those scholastic books pulled and updated with equality/ proof read to eliminate all of the regurgitated incorrect almost factual data printed in them. But that is another soapbox for another topic.


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Post by Guest on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:31 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:


So boring it seems, it renders you unable to counter anything and offer up instead for all to see your low levels of maturity.

I would if I could be arsed trawling through your loggerhea.  

Try being  concise.


Yet further proof when someone has not a clue, they offer yet more feeble excises.

Do you blame the hammer for why you fail to knock the nail home?

Of course not, so deflecting off me why you lack understanding in some subject, is not down to anyone else, but why you still now deny yourself from understanding farmore

Of course I am quite happy to dumb this down to a level far more immature if needed, so you can understand

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Taking the meaning of racism too far. - Page 9 Empty I often read OP'd pieces and Kareem has become a favorite of mine.

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:58 am

This is rather a long article so I've taken political license and snipped some of the top sections that were worth repeating for the discussion at hand...but by all means click on the link and read his entire thoughtful article.  He provides a fair and balanced OP'd from both sides of this issue --- AND HE WAS RAISED IN THE GHETTO WITH A FATHER THAT WAS A TRANSIT COP!  
How's that for surviving some kick butt bullying while growing up?

Date of Birth 16 April 1947, New York City, New York, USA  
Birth Name Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor
Nicknames Lew
Known as "The Big 'A'" before his name change.  
Height 7' 2" (2.18 m)  

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Every GOP candidate is wrong about political correctness
Yes, it sometimes sounds silly. But we need more sensitivity, not less.
By Kareem Abdul-Jabbar February 22 at 6:00 AMA
***edited for length of article >>>
Rasmussen Reports poll found that 79 percent of American adults think political correctness is a serious problem in the United States, with 58 percent believing that the country has become too politically correct. Of those who believe we’re being too careful, 74 percent of Republicans, 66 percent of those not affiliated with a major political party and 35 percent of Democrats concur. Only 18 percent think we aren’t politically correct enough.

This is nonsense. Although the extremes of political correctness can sometimes be absurd, America needs this trend to help it fulfill the spirit of the Constitution. Our country was founded on principles of inclusion, which means acting compassionately toward the many different people who make up our nation. Almost every group who immigrated to America was at one time the outsider — mistreated, abused and taunted. Maturity means not having to relive our mistakes of the past, but learning from them and doing better. Our country needs more sensitivity, not less.

Then this section >>>

It’s true that efforts to show sensitivity and inclusiveness can go too far. It’s especially striking on campus: A survey at Yale University found 63 percent of students wanting professors to issue “trigger warnings” before saying anything that someone might find offensive or traumatic. Critics say the “microaggression movement” coddles students who should expect to be challenged to better prepare them for the real world outside. And students did seem coddled when 25 of them staged a UCLA sit-in because a professor corrected spelling and grammar errors on graduate-level essays. (They accused him of creating a “hostile campus climate” for students of color.) University of New Hampshire students received a list of resources to help them avoid offensive language such as “American” (because it suggests the United States is the only country in the Americas), homosexual (should be “same gender loving”), elderly (“people of advanced age”) and healthy (“non-disabled”). Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock say they won’t play college campuses anymore because the climate is so restrictive. Bill Maher claims that “political correctness Nazis” “hound me to censor every joke and apologize for every single slight.”

Outside the academy, some Americans have bridled at movements to replace “Merry Christmas” with “Happy Holidays,” which seems to them a sinister attempt to restrict religious expression rather than a way to include non-Christians in the holiday spirit.

We can point to the absurd behavior of zealots around all of our most cherished values. We poke fun at helicopter parents for being overprotective, but we don’t erase safety laws and regulations that protect children.

A fairer critique would ask whether political correctness had solved the problem it was devised to address: Has it scrubbed away American prejudices? Certainly not yet, and of course it’s impossible to tell whether political correctness is even helping to diminish these, given how many other factors can influence behavior. But the task is worthy and vast: to erase centuries of bias in our country’s collective unconscious — and one way to do that is with language. For the same reason we no longer use terms that came to seem pejorative (Negro, colored, chick, bitch), we should eschew phrases tinged with hate (fag, cripple, retard) from our vocabulary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/22/kareem-abdul-jabbar-in-defense-of-political-correctness/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_most

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