Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

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Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:43 am

Water towers in America usually boast the names of the communities they serve, often with a mascot or slogan; totems of civic pride. Not here. Smudged by driving snow on a recent morning, this one merely proclaims: FLINT WATER PLANT. And this one stands for betrayal, hardship and scandal.Cast your eyes down to the neighbourhoods beyond; homes with sagging roofs and dilapidated porches, and you will see them, bundled-up figures shuffling down the streets. Some carry their loads in their arms, others push trollies through the drifts. The state of emergency is a week old now and this is their new daily grind: fetching bottled water from wherever they can find it.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/flint-michigan-100000-left-with-water-too-poisonous-to-drink-or-even-cook-with-a6815251.html

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:01 pm

This is really part of the austerity effort prompted by conservatives. Nothing rankles Republicans as much as poverty, and programs to help. Much of Michigan, and particularly Detroit and Flint, are poverty-stricken. So naturally, when Republicans take over the state, they try to take out their resentment, first, on those areas.

The result? A water system that connects to the septic tank. But conservatives hate people; so it all equals out in the end.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:04 pm

It happened under the Obama administration, Democrat Senators have been incharge of this state since 2006 last, thus stop making poor excuses and has mainly had Democrat Senators for decades, its happened under their watch

End of story

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:12 pm

Didge wrote:It happened under the Obama administration, Democrat Senators have been incharge of this state since 2006 last, thus stop making poor excuses and has mainly had Democrat Senators for decades, its happened under their watch

End of story

Obama is Federal.  This was state.  

Wiki wrote:Richard Dale "Rick" Snyder is an American politician, business executive, venture capitalist, and accountant. He is the 48th and current Governor of Michigan. A member of the Republican Party, he assumed office as governor on January 1, 2011



Time, Inc. wrote:The crisis in the struggling industrial city of 100,000 dates to April 2014, when Flint switched its water supply from Lake Huron to the Flint River in order to save money. The river water turned out to be highly corrosive to the city’s pipes, leaching toxic levels of lead into water being used for drinking, cooking and bathing. Shortly after the switch, residents began complaining of discoloration in the water, bad odors and health effects like headaches and rashes. Last summer, researchers at Virginia Tech found that the water in some homes contained enough lead to be considered toxic waste. On Jan. 5, months after testing revealed the city’s water supply was unsafe, Snyder declared a state of emergency. Nine days later, the governor announced that he had asked the Obama administration to designate the county surrounding Flint as a federal emergency area.

What the state and its governor, a Republican who was re-elected in 2014 after helping Detroit emerge from bankruptcy, knew and when they knew it have emerged as critical questions as the crisis stretches into its 19th month. Residents and a growing number of local and national officials have accused Snyder of ignoring a public health emergency, with some calling for him to step down as a result.

In an interview with TIME shortly before he announced the federal emergency request, Snyder says he first knew about potentially serious problems with the water supply on Oct. 1, 2015, when testing by state environmental officials confirmed elevated levels of lead. Pressed on whether that was the first time he became aware of any concern with Flint’s water, Snyder says, “Obviously, I knew there were water issues in Flint. But did I know there were unsafe blood levels? No.”

In a recently-released email from July 2015, Snyder’s former chief of staff, Dennis Muchmore, wrote to a state health department official that he was concerned that Flint residents believed they were getting “blown off” by state officials. Snyder says the email shows that his office was not neglecting the city, and Muchmore was “concerned that we were getting straight answers so he asked tough questions and he got answers.”

Asked if he waited too long to declare a state of emergency, Snyder defended the state’s response. “There was some time period where we were offering filters, we were working hard to get water. All these kind of things. But not enough of it was being accepted. Now we’re to the point now where hopefully we’re fully engaged and have everyone working hard to make sure everyone in Flint has access to a water filter.”

Snyder did fault the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, which repeatedly told Flint residents the water was safe to drink despite reports within the department that some Flint homes showed extremely high lead levels, for “being probably too technical in their interpretation of things or following a traditional pattern of doing things rather than stepping back to look at what else you might see in data.”

“There were issues in terms of getting appropriate answers,” Snyder tells TIME. “That was unfortunate. It would’ve been good to have that information sooner. And I am responsible for those people. I don’t deny that.”

Trust me...he was looking for the cheap way. Austerity...Hooray! cheers cheers


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:13 pm

And the state has been run by Democrats

Opps


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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:15 pm

Senators

Each state elects two senators for staggered 6-year terms. Senators represent the entire state.
Senior Senator
Debbie Stabenow
Democrat
Took Office: Jan 3, 2001
Next Election: 2018
Junior Senator
Gary Peters
Democrat
Took Office: Jan 6, 2015
Next Election: 2020


https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/MI


opps

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:07 pm

Didge wrote:It happened under the Obama administration, Democrat Senators have been incharge of this state since 2006 last, thus stop making poor excuses and has mainly had Democrat Senators for decades, its happened under their watch

End of story

Your ignorance is showing. You seriously need to learn a LOT more about U.S. politics and the separation of powers -- at every level -- before you try to pin this on Obama.

You're defending a governor who actually did away with local elections and appointed people to run certain cities (which interestingly happened to be majority black).

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:12 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:It happened under the Obama administration, Democrat Senators have been incharge of this state since 2006 last, thus stop making poor excuses and has mainly had Democrat Senators for decades, its happened under their watch

End of story

Your ignorance is showing. You seriously need to learn a LOT more about U.S. politics and the separation of powers -- at every level -- before you try to pin this on Obama.

You're defending a governor who actually did away with local elections and appointed people to run certain cities (which interestingly happened to be majority black).


Wow abusive now, wash your mouth out with soap, I am a guest here so show some decency to your guests

I am not defending anyone, as I think the vast majority of your Senators whether Republican or Democrats are an utter joke

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:17 pm

In fact I am not going to let you off the hook Ben, show me anywhere that I defended any Republican senator here?

If not I want you to grovel for the est of the evening and continue to apologise

As I never made any view on the Republican sentaor

Opps

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:22 pm

Didge wrote:In fact I am not going to let you off the hook Ben, show me anywhere that I defended any Republican senator here?

If not I want you to grovel for the est of the evening and continue to apologise

As I never made any view on the Republican sentaor

Opps

The Senate has nothing to do with this decision -- that's how you've displayed your ignorance about the American government and how it works.

Water supply issues (other than the Clean Water Act) are handled and executed by the states. Republican Rick Snyder is the governor of Michigan, and thus the executive. This is his responsiblity, and as you've deflected blame to Democrats who had nothing to do with it, you're de facto defending Republicans.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:23 pm

One last thing I will add also, has anyone noticed how defensive both Ben and Quill get when the tables are turned, where normally they bash, insult, sterotype the British but if the shoe is on the other foot espcially about Polictical parties they like, they get very aggressively defensive in their answers lol.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:25 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:In fact I am not going to let you off the hook Ben, show me anywhere that I defended any Republican senator here?

If not I want you to grovel for the est of the evening and continue to apologise

As I never made any view on the Republican sentaor

Opps

The Senate has nothing to do with this decision -- that's how you've displayed your ignorance about the American government and how it works.

Water supply issues (other than the Clean Water Act) are handled and executed by the states. Republican Rick Snyder is the governor of Michigan, and thus the executive. This is his responsiblity, and as you've deflected blame to Democrats who had nothing to do with it, you're de facto defending Republicans.


More childish abuse, look if I am mistaken here I will accept that, but you are not giving me a chance to do so but instead being aggressive, vile and down right rude. I reckon the democrats are as much to blame because I reckon many people knew of this problem, and complicity to not acting will make many culpable which I do not think you seem to grasp.

Now are you going to apologise for lying and being abusive?

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:34 pm

Maybe I need to remind Ben of his opening sentence that welcomes people here

Newsfix is a forum that encourages polite, civil debate of current events and ideas

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:51 pm

Didge wrote:Maybe I need to remind Ben of his opening sentence that welcomes people here

Newsfix is a forum that encourages polite, civil debate of current events and ideas

I've been forceful in my argument but I don't think I'm being uncivil. I do think it was a good thing to point out your lack of understanding about the U.S. government structure and how that led you to blame the wrong party, which is something useful to correct.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:59 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:Maybe I need to remind Ben of his opening sentence that welcomes people here

Newsfix is a forum that encourages polite, civil debate of current events and ideas

I've been forceful in my argument but I don't think I'm being uncivil. I do think it was a good thing to point out your lack of understanding about the U.S. government structure and how that led you to blame the wrong party, which is something useful to correct.


Again are you saying to me Two Democratic sentors wee completely unaware of all this?
Please, you were aggresive and rude and it shows and is very funny how you get so over defensive over a political party who are not anything of worth to praise as America is a very prejudice society, still engrained in religious giberish that sways views in the country. So to be or even think to praise the democrats is quute literally a joke, as it has been a joke with the incompetance of US leadership has been since the brith of its creation. Britain ends slavery with debate in the house of Commons, where the US goes to war with each other and thousands suffer. Hence why the Uk is leaps and bounds ahead of the US in regards to progression, where you are always lagging far behind

You keep believeing that the Democrats were not aware of this, that will always be your first failing
As to your inability to apologise, is of no surprise but to say I am ignorant of things in the US, shows how very much you allowed your emotions to get the better of you here.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:20 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:Maybe I need to remind Ben of his opening sentence that welcomes people here

Newsfix is a forum that encourages polite, civil debate of current events and ideas

I've been forceful in my argument but I don't think I'm being uncivil. I do think it was a good thing to point out your lack of understanding about the U.S. government structure and how that led you to blame the wrong party, which is something useful to correct.


Again are you saying to me Two Democratic sentors wee completely unaware of all this?
Please, you were aggresive and rude and it shows and is very funny how you get so over defensive over a political party who are not anything of worth to praise as America is a very prejudice society, still engrained in religious giberish that sways views in the country. So to be or even think to praise the democrats is quute literally a joke, as it has been a joke with the incompetance of US leadership has been since the brith of its creation. Britain ends slavery with debate in the house of Commons, where the US goes to war with each other and thousands suffer. Hence why the Uk is leaps and bounds ahead of the US in regards to progression, where you are always lagging far behind

You keep believeing that the Democrats were not aware of this, that will always be your first failing
As to your inability to apologise, is of no surprise but to say I am ignorant of things in the US, shows how very much you allowed your emotions to get the better of you here.

Seriously, just read up on the situation. Every single person who has been trying to get this fixed is a Democrat.

Michigan senators are in Washington D.C. to represent the interest of their states in federal matters. Once again -- administration of the public water supply is a state issue (and often further devolved to more local governments), not a federal matter. Though now that the state has allowed these people's water supply to become poisoned, it may become a federal matter.

This isn't any blind support of Democrats from me -- you seriously just don't understand the issue.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:22 pm

And it's obvious I wasn't pointing out your ignorance of the matter as an insult. You just don't know the issue well enough to be able to knowledgeably comment on it, and I was pointing that out.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:23 pm

So now you admit they knew about this and even with a Democrat President was unable to avoud this disaster. That is not doing everything they can to avoid this but being in fact as negligent also, by the fact they  certainly did not do enough to prevent this. So I most seriously do understand this issue, what you do not understand is how everyone failed here.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:25 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:And it's obvious I wasn't pointing out your ignorance of the matter as an insult. You just don't know the issue well enough to be able to knowledgeably comment on it, and I was pointing that out.


I actually just reasoned you do not realise how many people are responsible for this disaster and hence to claim you think you know to then claim my ignorance, being the fact you only look to blame one person, when all are culpable from not averting a disaster shows how rude you were and arrogant thinking you were completely right, when as seen the fault is far wider and complicit to all.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:28 pm

Didge wrote:So now you admit they knew about this and even with a Democrat President was unable to avoud this disaster. That is not doing everything they can to avoid this but being in fact as negligent also, by the fact they  certainly did not do enough to prevent this. So I most seriously do understand this issue, what you do not understand is how everyone failed here.

I admitted no such thing and actually argued the opposite.

Your claim would akin to me saying that Cameron should have known about garbage issues in an Edinborough neighborhood or something before it became an issue.

Do you really think the president and Senate get regular reports on each of the nearly 20,000 cities in the U.S.?

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:30 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:And it's obvious I wasn't pointing out your ignorance of the matter as an insult. You just don't know the issue well enough to be able to knowledgeably comment on it, and I was pointing that out.


I actually just reasoned you do not realise how many people are responsible for this disaster and hence to claim you think you know to then claim my ignorance, being the fact you only look to blame one person, when all are culpable from not averting a disaster shows how rude you were and arrogant thinking you were completely right, when as seen the fault is far wider and complicit to all.

Please try to understand, because you're making my neck tense up now. The U.S. Senate and President have NOTHING TO DO with the day-to-day operations of any municipal water supply anywhere in the country. The very idea would strike you as obviously preposterous if you understood the U.S. government.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:30 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:So now you admit they knew about this and even with a Democrat President was unable to avoud this disaster. That is not doing everything they can to avoid this but being in fact as negligent also, by the fact they  certainly did not do enough to prevent this. So I most seriously do understand this issue, what you do not understand is how everyone failed here.

I admitted no such thing and actually argued the opposite.

Your claim would akin to me saying that Cameron should have known about garbage issues in an Edinborough neighborhood or something before it became an issue.

Do you really think the president and Senate get regular reports on each of the nearly 20,000 cities in the U.S.?


Yes I do believe they do know what is going on and act with very little and too late, hence all are to blame here which is my point. You think Cameron is not aware of many things in the country? Of course they are, what Politicians do not matter left and right is try to hide or deny that they did and spend more to time in the vain of trying to convince people, because they know fundementally Politicians lie.
So you were arrogant and wrongly fail to blame all for failing here, of which everyone did

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:34 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:


I actually just reasoned you do not realise how many people are responsible for this disaster and hence to claim you think you know to then claim my ignorance, being the fact you only look to blame one person, when all are culpable from not averting a disaster shows how rude you were and arrogant thinking you were completely right, when as seen the fault is far wider and complicit to all.

Please try to understand, because you're making my neck tense up now.
Poor emotive deflection

The U.S. Senate and President have NOTHING TO DO with the day-to-day operations of any municipal water supply anywhere in the country. The very idea would strike you as obviously preposterous if you understood the U.S. government.


I think you failed to understand a single point, as you claimed that the Democrats had been the ones trying to do everything to getting this fixed, which means it was known previously.

Your words

Every single person who has been trying to get this fixed is a Democrat.

They clearly did not avert a disaster and you are excusing people who are partly to blame. I blame everyone for failing here so again showimg I am not defending anyone and it is actually you who is the only one here trying to actually defend people who are clearly culpable to not averting this disaster. That makes them as much to blame.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:37 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:


I actually just reasoned you do not realise how many people are responsible for this disaster and hence to claim you think you know to then claim my ignorance, being the fact you only look to blame one person, when all are culpable from not averting a disaster shows how rude you were and arrogant thinking you were completely right, when as seen the fault is far wider and complicit to all.

Please try to understand, because you're making my neck tense up now.
Poor emotive deflection

The U.S. Senate and President have NOTHING TO DO with the day-to-day operations of any municipal water supply anywhere in the country. The very idea would strike you as obviously preposterous if you understood the U.S. government.


I think you failed to understand a single point, as you claimed that the Democrats had been the ones trying to do everything to getting this fixed, which means it was known previously.

Your words

Every single person who has been trying to get this fixed is a Democrat.

They clearly did not avert a disaster and you are excusing people who are partly to blame. I blame everyone for failing here so again showimg I am not defending anyone and it is actually you who is the only one here trying to actually defend people who are clearly culpable to not averting this disaster. That makes them as much to blame.

Let me clarify -- everyone who has been trying to get this fixed SINCE IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM has been a Democrat.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:


I think you failed to understand a single point, as you claimed that the Democrats had been the ones trying to do everything to getting this fixed, which means it was known previously.

Your words

Every single person who has been trying to get this fixed is a Democrat.

They clearly did not avert a disaster and you are excusing people who are partly to blame. I blame everyone for failing here so again showimg I am not defending anyone and it is actually you who is the only one here trying to actually defend people who are clearly culpable to not averting this disaster. That makes them as much to blame.

Let me clarify -- everyone who has been trying to get this fixed SINCE IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM has been a Democrat.

So you have no idea if they knew which two Michigan Senators not aware of this
You must think everyone was born yesterday
So what have the democrats actually done to try and fix this?
How much money?
People?
resources?

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:10 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:


I think you failed to understand a single point, as you claimed that the Democrats had been the ones trying to do everything to getting this fixed, which means it was known previously.

Your words

Every single person who has been trying to get this fixed is a Democrat.

They clearly did not avert a disaster and you are excusing people who are partly to blame. I blame everyone for failing here so again showimg I am not defending anyone and it is actually you who is the only one here trying to actually defend people who are clearly culpable to not averting this disaster. That makes them as much to blame.

Let me clarify -- everyone who has been trying to get this fixed SINCE IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM has been a Democrat.

So you have no idea if they knew which two Michigan Senators not aware of this
You must think everyone was born yesterday
So what have the democrats actually done to try and fix this?
How much money?
People?
resources?



Rick Snyder, Republican, is the governor of Michigan. He is responsible for enforcing state law on public drinking water, which is only required to comply with federal safety standards. In other words, the federal government -- Obama, the Congress, the Supreme Court -- has no say in how he accomplishes this task, only the ability to take action if he doesn't.

Snyder also has (ultimate) responsibility for testing the water to make sure it's safe. It appears he either didn't do this, or more likely, suppressed reports about its safety.

At no point in this process is there any federal involvement. The federal government can only get involved if the state screws it up.

Now, it has -- there is a federal investigation underway: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/05/health/flint-michigan-water-investigation/

And Obama has declared it a federal emergency: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/01/16/president-obama-declares-emergency-flint/78898604/

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:16 pm

What about the two US Democrat Senators?
Did they know and were they negligent?
So its no good banging your smilies heads against the wall the poor things, leave them alobe

So Obama is giving a measely 5 million dollars to a disaster of this scale, with no real extra resources or people

That is disgusting on every level
Again how you can even admire that pitiful extent of help is appalling

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:29 pm

Didge wrote:What about the two US Democrat Senators?
Did they know and were they negligent?
So its no good banging your smilies heads against the wall the poor things, leave them alobe

So Obama is giving a measely 5 million dollars to a disaster of this scale, with no real extra resources or people

That is disgusting on every level
Again how you can even admire that pitiful extent of help is appalling

Again, do you not understand that he's restrained by laws?

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:37 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:What about the two US Democrat Senators?
Did they know and were they negligent?
So its no good banging your smilies heads against the wall the poor things, leave them alobe

So Obama is giving a measely 5 million dollars to a disaster of this scale, with no real extra resources or people

That is disgusting on every level
Again how you can even admire that pitiful extent of help is appalling

Again, do you not understand that he's restrained by laws?


Yes I am well aware, but again can you not call for an emergency fund to be past?
You see no matter how much you keep offering excuses, I will be able to trump them, espcially after you made the views on it being the Democrats trying to fix this
So what you really should have said is that he is restricted by the outcome of a vote, not laws itself, because you can vote through an emergency funding

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:39 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:What about the two US Democrat Senators?
Did they know and were they negligent?
So its no good banging your smilies heads against the wall the poor things, leave them alobe

So Obama is giving a measely 5 million dollars to a disaster of this scale, with no real extra resources or people

That is disgusting on every level
Again how you can even admire that pitiful extent of help is appalling

Again, do you not understand that he's restrained by laws?


Yes I am well aware, but again can you not call for an emergency fund to be past?
You see no matter how much you keep offering excuses, I will be able to trump them, espcially after you made the views on it being the Democrats trying to fix this
So what you really should have said is that he is restricted by the outcome of a vote, not laws itself, because you can vote through an emergency funding

It has been passed. And again, the Senators are in Washington D.C. working on federal issues. They don't have any direct influence on state matters. Both of the Democratic senators pressed for emergency funds to be released to Flint.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:40 pm

lol more excuses.
So Ben, what would you say if the Senators actually knew if this and did nothing to prevent this?
Again 5 million is pathetic for the scale of such a disaster, which means they are not exactly jumping through hoops to actually solve this

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:47 pm

what , actually, are they DOING

5 million aint a lot in reality, and if all they are doing is shipping in 5 million dollar worth of bottled water, well thats just daft.

why dont they provide every person with .......

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/

pre fitted with the appropriate heavy metal filters....

and then keep providing the filters till they get the pipe work sorted out....?

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:47 pm

and...a lot of tose folks are going to need treatment....


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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:48 pm

FLINT, MI — The federal government told the state more than seven months ago that the chemistry of Flint River water was apparently causing transmission pipes to leach contaminants such as lead into city water, according to emails among environmental regulators.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/emails_show_feds_told_state_of.html


So not only would the Democrats been aware of this problem, but clearly the Prisedent would have been and all we seem to have to have averted this disaster was some email warnings

I call that shocking myself, dont you Ben?


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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:49 pm

Didge wrote:lol more excuses.
So Ben, what would you say if the Senators actually knew if this and did nothing to prevent this?
Again 5 million is pathetic for the scale of such a disaster, which means they are not exactly jumping through hoops to actually solve this

$5 million is the law! The president's power is not absolute! Trying to release more funding would have required this be a natural, not Republican-made, disaster!

If the Senators knew about bad water reports, I'd be shocked. If they knew and said nothing, I'd favor their impeachment and prosecution. But again -- to be clear -- they have no actual powers to do anything about this situation directly. There is no legal way they could have intervened or directed the governor to do anything -- Senators do not have that power.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:51 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:lol more excuses.
So Ben, what would you say if the Senators actually knew if this and did nothing to prevent this?
Again 5 million is pathetic for the scale of such a disaster, which means they are not exactly jumping through hoops to actually solve this

$5 million is the law! The president's power is not absolute! Trying to release more funding would have required this be a natural, not Republican-made, disaster!

If the Senators knew about bad water reports, I'd be shocked. If they knew and said nothing, I'd favor their impeachment and prosecution. But again -- to be clear -- they have no actual powers to do anything about this situation directly. There is no legal way they could have intervened or directed the governor to do anything -- Senators do not have that power.


See above as they clearly most certainly did know
5 million is pitiful for this kind of disaster

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:52 pm

Didge wrote:FLINT, MI — The federal government told the state more than seven months ago that the chemistry of Flint River water was apparently causing transmission pipes to leach contaminants such as lead into city water, according to emails among environmental regulators.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/emails_show_feds_told_state_of.html


So not only would the Democrats been aware of this problem, but clearly the Prisedent would have been and all we seem to have to have averted this disaster was some email warnings

I call that shocking myself, dont you Ben?


What you need to read Ben


FLINT, MI — The federal government told the state more than seven months ago that the chemistry of Flint River water was apparently causing transmission pipes to leach contaminants such as lead into city water, according to emails among environmental regulators.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/emails_show_feds_told_state_of.html


So not only would the Democrats been aware of this problem, but clearly the Prisedent would have been and all we seem to have to have averted this disaster was some email warnings

I call that shocking myself, dont you Ben?

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:53 pm

Didge wrote:FLINT, MI — The federal government told the state more than seven months ago that the chemistry of Flint River water was apparently causing transmission pipes to leach contaminants such as lead into city water, according to emails among environmental regulators.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/emails_show_feds_told_state_of.html


So not only would the Democrats been aware of this problem, but clearly the Prisedent would have been and all we seem to have to have averted this disaster was some email warnings

I call that shocking myself, dont you?

Not at all, because once again, I know more than you about American government.

The president can't release emergency funding unless it's requested by the state governor.

Also, per your own source:

But the state Department of Environmental Quality continued to operate under the incorrect assumption Flint wasn't required to develop and implement plans for controlling corrosion, something the agency didn't acknowledge was a mistake until Monday, Oct. 19.

***

DEQ Director Dan Wyant said in a statement Monday that his agency made a mistake by not requiring an anti-corrosion plan sooner and said officials were wrong in applying standards reserved for smaller cities that serve far fewer people than Flint does.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:54 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:lol more excuses.
So Ben, what would you say if the Senators actually knew if this and did nothing to prevent this?
Again 5 million is pathetic for the scale of such a disaster, which means they are not exactly jumping through hoops to actually solve this

$5 million is the law! The president's power is not absolute! Trying to release more funding would have required this be a natural, not Republican-made, disaster!

If the Senators knew about bad water reports, I'd be shocked. If they knew and said nothing, I'd favor their impeachment and prosecution. But again -- to be clear -- they have no actual powers to do anything about this situation directly. There is no legal way they could have intervened or directed the governor to do anything -- Senators do not have that power.


See above as they clearly most certainly did know
5 million is pitiful for this kind of disaster

Do you think U.S. Senators routinely have meetings with federal water safety inspectors? The inspectors would have to seek out the Senators' attention, and why would they, when the Senators -- again -- have no power to do anything?!

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:55 pm

And regardless of whether $5 million won't be enough, I can't repeat often enough (apparently) that that is all Obama is allowed to release, by law.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:55 pm

Oh my god and he is still going on about funding

He can raise even more emergency funding by pusing this through the senate and you need to stop being so agressive and defensive

Again he clearly did know as did the democrats but they relied on email warnings as sufficient to warn people thinking that would be enough for them to act. To me now the buck is more so with the denmocrats, because they clearly did not push for tanything to be done to avert this disaster

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:56 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:And regardless of whether $5 million won't be enough, I can't repeat often enough (apparently) that that is all Obama is allowed to release, by law.


Again, can he push a bill to be voted on for further emergency funding through the senate?

Yes or No

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:03 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:And regardless of whether $5 million won't be enough, I can't repeat often enough (apparently) that that is all Obama is allowed to release, by law.


Again, can he push a bill to be voted on for further emergency funding through the senate?

Yes or No

He could -- he'd have to get it through both houses of Congress first, however. If you remember the case of Hurricane Sandy, which was a federal disaster, not emergency (because it was an act of nature) it took Congress more than two months to authorize emergency funding in excess of what Obama was allowed by statute to release.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:08 pm

Didge wrote:Oh my god and he is still going on about funding

He can raise even more emergency funding by pusing this through the senate and you need to stop being so agressive and defensive

Again he clearly did know as did the democrats but they relied on email warnings as sufficient to warn people thinking that would be enough for them to act. To me now the buck is more so with the denmocrats, because they clearly did not push for tanything to be done to avert this disaster

If you're implying that Obama or the Senate saw these environmental reports, first of all, that would be very far-fetched. Yet again, the president and Senate are not the proper channels for addressing water supply contamination -- there are literally dozens of people who would get involved first, because they have the statutory responsibility and authority to address the problem.

Obama and the Senate do not have the legal authority to intervene in the case of an emergency with a municipal water supply. When Snyder finally gave up and requested federal aid, Obama granted it in less than two days.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:10 pm

So you are now using an even worse poor defense over a different disaster, which does not mean he should not even attempt to do the same here does it? So in other words he clearly is not taking this disaster as of the same importance then is he? It does not matter how huge a disaster ism they should all be given equal importance and he clearly has not done that here

Now, was I ignorant of any of this at all Ben? No, I was fundementally right, all are to blame here. So next time do not allow your emotions to turn you into being arrogant which is something you are most certainly not. As seen it will come back to bite you in the arse big time. It may also make you start to respect the British posters a but more that we actually know more than you think about your country. It also very much shows that you are happy to mock and go at the British but when it comes to the US being questioned you get very much the same as you place others into being defensive themselves


Lesson learnt?

I very much doubt it


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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:13 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:Oh my god and he is still going on about funding

He can raise even more emergency funding by pusing this through the senate and you need to stop being so agressive and defensive

Again he clearly did know as did the democrats but they relied on email warnings as sufficient to warn people thinking that would be enough for them to act. To me now the buck is more so with the denmocrats, because they clearly did not push for tanything to be done to avert this disaster

If you're implying that Obama or the Senate saw these environmental reports, first of all, that would be very far-fetched. Yet again, the president and Senate are not the proper channels for addressing water supply contamination -- there are literally dozens of people who would get involved first, because they have the statutory responsibility and authority to address the problem.

Obama and the Senate do not have the legal authority to intervene in the case of an emergency with a municipal water supply. When Snyder finally gave up and requested federal aid, Obama granted it in less than two days.


PMSL far fetched?

That has toi be the worst apologist nonsense I have ever heard.

I am not even going to entertain this debate any longer, you are clearly so very emotive democrat, and its evident these type of debates get you too worked up.

Blimey is all I can say to that.

I suggest take a chill pill and cool down and on that maybe again you will think twie before you continually bellittle many British posters here

Thanks

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:15 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:Oh my god and he is still going on about funding

He can raise even more emergency funding by pusing this through the senate and you need to stop being so agressive and defensive

Again he clearly did know as did the democrats but they relied on email warnings as sufficient to warn people thinking that would be enough for them to act. To me now the buck is more so with the denmocrats, because they clearly did not push for tanything to be done to avert this disaster

If you're implying that Obama or the Senate saw these environmental reports, first of all, that would be very far-fetched. Yet again, the president and Senate are not the proper channels for addressing water supply contamination -- there are literally dozens of people who would get involved first, because they have the statutory responsibility and authority to address the problem.

Obama and the Senate do not have the legal authority to intervene in the case of an emergency with a municipal water supply. When Snyder finally gave up and requested federal aid, Obama granted it in less than two days.


PMSL far fetched?

That has toi be the worst apologist nonsense I have ever heard.

I am not even going to entertain this debate any longer, you are clearly so very emotive democrat, and its evident these type of debates get you too worked up.

Blimey is all I can say to that.

I suggest take a chill pill and cool down and on that maybe again you will think twie before you continually bellittle many British posters here

Thanks

You just need to get informed about this before you make more false assertions.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:39 pm

Didge wrote:One last thing I will add also, has anyone noticed how defensive both Ben and Quill get when the tables are turned, where normally they bash, insult, sterotype the British but if the shoe is on the other foot espcially about Polictical parties they like, they get very aggressively defensive in their answers lol.

There's no tables turned, Didge. You are just digging your hole deeper.

There are two levels of government in the United States. The Federal level is tha national level, comprised of a Congress (both houses), an Executive and a Judiciary. The state level is the level of each of the 50-states, each having their own forms of government, and dealing with local level concerns such as police powers, sanitation and, yes, drinking water.

You have named officials on the Federal level, having nothing to do with the Flint River matter. Obama is the president and the senators you mention are in the Federal Congress. It's a different government...it is like blaming the Prime Minister of Canada for the drinking water in Flint.

A lot of energy again spent on an effort to intellectually masturbate.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Guest on Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:42 pm

Nope, I proved fundementally all are to blame here espcially as the Federal Government knew of the extent of the problem, tp even claim they would not have know is a very weak unfounded claim, which is no surprise
You like to excuse people where as I place the blame firmly on all everyone who failed here.

Obama is quite literally like any other US President a resounding joke, as like I say the US is so corrupt in its polictics its beyond belief. The very fabric of society is based on a white Middle class family steeped in prejudice whether from religious attitudes or racial. The US is so far behind the UK on so many social aspects its astounding even today the US is still steeped in so much prejudice.

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Re: Flint, Michigan: 100,000 left with water too poisonous to drink or even cook with

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:06 pm

Didge wrote:So you are now using an even worse poor defense over a different disaster, which does not mean he should not even attempt to do the same here does it? So in other words he clearly is not taking this disaster as of the same importance then is he? It does not matter how huge a disaster ism they should all be given equal importance and he clearly has not done that here

Now, was I ignorant of any of this at all Ben? No, I was fundementally right, all are to blame here. So next time do not allow your emotions to turn you into being arrogant which is something you are most certainly not. As seen it will come back to bite you in the arse big time. It may also make you start to respect the British posters a but more that we actually know more than you think about your country. It also very much shows that you are happy to mock and go at the British but when it comes to the US being questioned you get very much the same as you place others into being defensive themselves

Lesson learnt?

I very much doubt it

Jezeeus, you are one ignorant son-ova-bitch. For two-hundred and forty years the US has had two tiers of government, you don't even know that? The US was formed originally as 13-states, under the Articles of Confederation, and you don't know? The Constitution was written in order to form a Federal government, uniting the 13-original states into a Federal system, and you've never heard? The US fought a Civil War due to the tensions between certain state governments and the Federal government, and you haven't heard about it? States rights is an integral part of the debate even today, and you are oblivious?

Let's start at the beginning. There are two major parties, Republicans and Democrats. Both parties operate on both the Federal level and the state level. Michigan is a state, governed by a state government that is Republican. The Federal government is the national government, divided between a Democratic executive and a Republican-dominated Congress and Supreme Court. For the most part, the Federal government is frozen in its actions because Republicans are resentful because the President is a black man, and consequently they refuse to operate at all.

The 50 states operate primarily on local, provincial questions, leaving broader concerns to the Federal level. Water quality is a local, provincial concern. The State of Michigan, being governed by Republicans (elitists and conservatives, for a short summary), has passed a special law by-passing city and county governments to take over certain black-populated municipalities, declaring a financial emergency. This is all taking place in the state government orbit.

Using this law to usurp local government authority, the Republican state government has made policy decisions that effectively foist poisoned water onto the black population of these areas. In the aftermath, the Federal government is standing-by to aid, but because the Congress is frozen by Republican control, it can do only so much.

I've given you a short course in American politics. Now maybe you can get it sorted in your head. Stop the stupidity, and comment intelligently.

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