I think this makes a good point

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I think this makes a good point

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:04 am

My daughter, a vicar for the Church Army, posted this.   She calls it 'Real Christianity'



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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Eilzel on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:23 am

That's pretty powerful actually. I may dislike Christianity along with all other religions. But if there was more of this I'd be less hostile.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:28 am

We discuss religion a lot, and I'd say hers, if I believed in a God, is flipping brilliant.  Her church does some brilliant work in the community and they are helping refugee families that have been allocate to her town.  We might have differing views, but I have great respect for what she does.  I have no respect however, for those that say they are Christian but who would be horrified by the above.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:50 am

It's not exactly anything new is it? Why are you and your daughter trying to imply that all Christians hate Muslims and wish them harm? I think your daughter is stirring things up. Putting words into the mouth of Jesus is not necessary - she should know that.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:57 am

Eilzel wrote:That's pretty powerful actually. I may dislike Christianity along with all other religions. But if there was more of this I'd be less hostile.

Think about who mostly criticises Islam and/or Muslims on here.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Original Quill on Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:28 pm

Christ was actually a pretty neat guy. It was Paul who fooked it up.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:24 pm

I don't get it? Why are sassy and Les under the impression that most Christians are against Muslims?
You're both prepared to accept that most Muslims are peace-loving, so why not Christians??

Makes no sense.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:34 pm

Is it some kind of follow on from the "real Muslim" discussion?

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:41 pm

sassy wrote:We discuss religion a lot, and I'd say hers, if I believed in a God, is flipping brilliant.  Her church does some brilliant work in the community and they are helping refugee families that have been allocate to her town.  We might have differing views, but I have great respect for what she does.  I have no respect however, for those that say they are Christian but who would be horrified by the above.

Why would a Christian be horrified by the sentiment in that picture? I think it's a bit inappropriate, but each to their own. It could almost be incitement against Christians to imply that they are against Muslims. You don't want jihadists seeing that kind of thing really.

What you really mean is that admire your daughter's work - there's no need to bring faith into it, particularly as you don't actually believe in God yourself.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Eilzel on Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:34 pm

Where do you get that impression, Eds?

You are wrong. I simply said it would be nice to see more of the above. I also reiterated my hostility to all religions.

You are just typically jumping to the idea of there being a fight against only Christianity- because a minority of bitching Christians push the idea (including your absent buddies no doubt lol)

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:44 pm

hmmm...love your enemies

does that make killing them into a "mercy killing"???

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:40 pm

Eilzel wrote:Where do you get that impression, Eds?

You are wrong. I simply said it would be nice to see more of the above. I also reiterated my hostility to all religions.

You are just typically jumping to the idea of there being a fight against only Christianity- because a minority of bitching Christians push the idea (including your absent buddies no doubt lol)

That's not really what you said is it?

Would you also be less hostile to atheists then, or do you think that they're never critical of Islam or Muslims?

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by eddie on Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:28 pm

Eilzel wrote:Where do you get that impression, Eds?

You are wrong. I simply said it would be nice to see more of the above. I also reiterated my hostility to all religions.

You are just typically jumping to the idea of there being a fight against only Christianity- because a minority of bitching Christians push the idea (including your absent buddies no doubt lol)

Sorry, I took it that you meant "more of this" meaning "more Christians acting like Jesus in the above picture"

Jesus is putting people right about Muslims and you said you'd like to see "more of this"
and most Christians are like that already? scratch

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:27 pm

eddie wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Where do you get that impression, Eds?

You are wrong. I simply said it would be nice to see more of the above. I also reiterated my hostility to all religions.

You are just typically jumping to the idea of there being a fight against only Christianity- because a minority of bitching Christians push the idea (including your absent buddies no doubt lol)

Sorry, I took it that you meant "more of this" meaning "more Christians acting like Jesus in the above picture"

Jesus is putting people right about Muslims and you said you'd like to see "more of this"
and most Christians are like that already? scratch

That's clearly what he meant.

I think this thread is a right old shit stir tbh.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:24 pm

Real Christianity?

Over 40,000 denominations,each claiming that they are, though they all cannot be right based off if views conflict with each other. Which is not very important anyway, as more of a view should be based on what is more an islam and Christianty taught, that is based on sound ethical and moral reasoning. If people want to identify they are the only Real believers, its up to them to do so, as nobody can even begin to claim who is reak or right,. based on works that there is simply no evidence that shows a connection to or evidence of a deity. The very deity claimed from these works. So by Real, will vary as it does in both faiths, based off the ideology aspect, be it more economical or political

Based on the fact numeroeus countless other gosples and other Christian works have been ommitted from the bible based off the views of men, centuries after the time when Jesus wa susposed to have walked the earth.

Roth Christianity and Islam are very problematic even without those who are hardline Ultra conseravtive literal Muslims and Hard right ecangical literal Christians. remember both are fundementally beliefs that have both economical and political policies. The former good within both religiopns, the later, what has been a fundemental hate and violence for near 2000 years.

Its all well and good stating and going off the bible that Jesus did good deeds, but where this all falls apart as being a good belief system. Is that just as it is in Islam, the religion only benefits those of that faith. All else are condenned. In both faiths, it teaches to crminalize views people have. It teaches to crminalise emotions, if you do not love. Which places a higher empahsis on hate and vengence over love itself The love offered is conditional, as seen by not believing, loving aand not following what are a claim to laws set in stone. Not only that, within Christianity, Jesus is meant to return at the head of an army and unleash so much violence and death, it will make collectivelly all previous wars, look utterly insignificant in comparrison. Are not basic values we would even teach our own children. They are views we owuld actually teach are bad.

When you have such belief systems, that are based off works, where it is impossible to varify and also very questionable to base eternal laws off works, that very little to nothing can substanciate their validity. These unethical and poor moral values, laid out in the core belief of both these religions, based on a literal belief and Hard right wing views, completely at odds with each others faith.

If either of each others faiths had any respect for each others faith, neither would of ever built places of worship over the other faiths places of worship. The monotheistic faiths, do not allow for opposition in their view of the supposed afterlife and even certain elements of the views and policies within the religious works, are very opposed to each others faith. So based off a hardline literal view, those believers will based their core values on the same measure laid out on the policies and emotions of a myth, they cannot prove exists.

That is why religions can and have been fundementally dangereous for years based on a hardline literal belief. It instills a poor ethical view, that love is conditional, hate and venegence supersede love. Which is why you see how easily it is based on the recent debates and of a certain conflict (even though the Palestinians were the aggressors) to apply the same hate and venegnce onto civillian people. As to them, their deity punishes those eternally for many trivial things, we would never today make punishable. So if the deity is seen as the highest law, who as written is claimed to judge people in an afterlife, which essentialy deligitimizes them to enter a supposed heaven. You can see how easily hardline literal beliers can then view then humans with the same poor reasoning and judgement, based off the poor core valies.

So I know I have gone on a bit, but wanted to point out the core aspects of both faiths fundemnetally only benefit the believers themselves. Hence why thankfully many believers today in the west are not literal believes, as many still believe in Jesus or a God, but believe aslo the writers who collated the works could be in error on certain values. As the bible, unlike the claim to the origin of the Quran, has many authiors to chapters and parts of rhe bible. So progressive Christians and Muslims, are something we should always welcome and embrace, who are not afraid to challenge beliefs, formed only based in many cases on the interpretations of other men centuries ago deciding based on their own point of view.

So no Rags, to me it does not matter whether Christian or Islam if off a literal stance, as the core values in each taught, are steep in negative emotions far more than love, where this love is offered to those who emabrace the faith. So I would prefer that in this day and age, that many intelligent people would have concluded how appaling these core values are and are not something we would associate with a higher intelligence or a conceptions of love.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:31 pm

It's not me who was talking about "real Christianity", it was Sassy's daughter.

Other than that, I have no idea what you're banging on about or why it's relevant to this thread.


Last edited by Raggamuffin on Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Lord Foul on Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:31 pm

not wanting to be a party pooper or such......but........


that picture is an anachronism

I hate to tell you this...but Muslims were not around when jesus supposedly "did his thing" so effectively this is rewriting the gospels. Falsely attributing a set of values to someone, which merely reflect the authors values. It is twisted and disingenious...

there is zero evidence that jesus would have thought like that, and as such in fact this could be taken as "blasphemy"


oh and by christian understanding...no-one knows the mind of god

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:33 pm

Lord Foul wrote:not wanting to be a party pooper or such......but........


that picture is an anachronism

I hate to tell you this...but Muslims were not around when jesus supposedly "did his thing" so effectively this is rewriting the gospels. Falsely attributing a set of values to someone, which merely reflect the authors values. It is twisted and disingenious...

there is zero evidence that jesus would have thought like that, and as such in fact this could be taken as "blasphemy"


oh and by christian understanding...no-one knows the mind of god

As I said, there's no need to put words into the mouth of Jesus, and I think it's inappropriate.

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Re: I think this makes a good point

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:49 pm

Lord Foul wrote:not wanting to be a party pooper or such......but........


that picture is an anachronism

I hate to tell you this...but Muslims were not around when jesus supposedly "did his thing" so effectively this is rewriting the gospels. Falsely attributing a set of values to someone, which merely reflect the authors values. It is twisted and disingenious...

there is zero evidence that jesus would have thought like that, and as such in fact this could be taken as "blasphemy"


oh and by christian understanding...no-one knows the mind of god ::shrug::::

Indeed if such a deity did indeed exist, only at most one religion could be right or even all wrong.

@ Fair point Rags it was again Sassy declaring her view as to what is to her Real Christianity, which then discrminates against all other Christians, by deligitimizing them as not real Christians.

I would like to think that such an intelligent creator if indeed it did exist, would if as claimed that we are made in that image of the deity. With also being all knoiwing its is claimed. Understand from a supreme intelligent point of view, that no such laws would ever be required or needed. By placing laws, which if as seen humans reason against said laws and those reasons are better. It leaves this deity open to being easily challenged and viewed then as wrong and then even more so then not existing. Clerly of born out of a part of that higher level of intelligence if as claimed, then being as we have constantly in the main made fairer laws. If we have the ability to reason, and then find faith, say like Eddie, not based off fear through a threat of eternal punishment. Then her path to a religious enlightenment, has come off reasoning and not clouded religious works. Her path to religion is not coerced. That the deity is only the complete representive of love and not hate and would stand in opposite to hate and vengence. That allows for people to live their lives, allowing then to find answers out for themselves. This is why the religious works are so man made. Something if all intelligent would not be ruled by hate, if it is the creator, its love that allowed for life then to exist and be created. Hence more should take a leaf out of Eddies book, there is no need for devine laws or commands if you reason off a supreme intelligence. As we are for ever trying tio learn and understand what is fair for all. So the religious elements of both Islam and Christianity through the written works, deny the ability to believe freely, without fear of retribution. Which then renders and makes absurd having that belief in the first place, because it does not allow for that belief to be freely given.

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