Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:11 pm

    

So if this based off a fear of death as he claims, then fundemnetally Islam is the mother load of bad religions through the belief of martydom. I mean he even goes on to say it plays a huge part in persuading religious people but ignoring the implications behind the ideology, when it is findementally a literal view of Islam.

Yes thanks for that Zack I have read him before on many occasions, his work is interesting but to downplay the massive connection of religion is nothing short of stupid.

There have been occcasions where people have committed to suicide attacks before like the Leonidas Squadran based on political motivations, but what he fails to grasps is that in the main religions are ideologies.
Ideologies are both economic and political of which the economic is generally good within religions but the political aspect of religions is the nightmare fascist aspect, the fundemental driving aspect of terrorism itself.

So all very interesting and he may well have stuided many terrorist attacks, that does not mean he is in anway correct on his assumptions.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:35 pm

Terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda are widely seen as being motivated by their radical theology. But according to Robert Pape, a political scientist at the University of Chicago and founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, this view is too simplistic. Pape knows his subject; he and his colleagues have studied every suicide attack in the world since 1980, evaluating over 4,600 in all.


He says that religious fervor is not a motive unto itself. Rather, it serves as a tool for recruitment and a potent means of getting people to overcome their fear of death and natural aversion to killing innocents.


Absolutely agree.  People like a simple answer, there rarely is one.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:46 pm

Yes that radical ideology is Islam in its literal sense.

I am sure you agree as you are an apologist for steering any connection from Islam to terrorism.

Again why is it we see the worst persecution to Christians in the Middle East and yet there is no movement in the west on any comparability to committing terrorism as a claim to grievance of Christians? Let alone the many Christians persecuted in the Middle East, where is all the Christian suicide bombers because again many literal Christians have no fear of death either and in fact actually welcome the end of world?
The proplem with Islam is that it already teaches a view of hate to non-believers and even more so to apostates.
So its very easy to turn to terrorism in Islam based on its ideology

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:15 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
sassy wrote:Terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda are widely seen as being motivated by their radical theology. But according to Robert Pape, a political scientist at the University of Chicago and founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, this view is too simplistic. Pape knows his subject; he and his colleagues have studied every suicide attack in the world since 1980, evaluating over 4,600 in all.


He says that religious fervor is not a motive unto itself. Rather, it serves as a tool for recruitment and a potent means of getting people to overcome their fear of death and natural aversion to killing innocents.


Absolutely agree.  People like a simple answer, there rarely is one.

Of course, binary simpletons want a simple black or white answer.

That's why Blair and Cameron could get away with their military intervention and other foreign policy.

Exactly, very easy to manipulate people who only look at the top surface and allow themselves to be swayed by rhetoric, fear and prejudice.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:16 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:    

So if this based off a fear of death as he claims, then fundemnetally Islam is the mother load of bad religions through the belief of martydom. I mean he even goes on to say it plays a huge part in persuading religious people but ignoring the implications behind the ideology, when it is findementally a literal view of Islam.

Yes thanks for that Zack I have read him before on many occasions, his work is interesting but to downplay the massive connection of religion is nothing short of stupid.

There have been occcasions where people have committed to suicide attacks before like the Leonidas Squadran based on political motivations, but what he fails to grasps is that in the main religions are ideologies.
Ideologies are both economic and political of which the economic is generally good within religions but the political aspect of religions is the nightmare fascist aspect, the fundemental driving aspect of terrorism itself.

So all very interesting and he may well have stuided many terrorist attacks, that does not mean he is in anway correct on his assumptions.

And what studies have you published?


Why do I need to publish something when its a no brainer as to the issue?

Seriously is that all you can come out with?

Look I know you go to extreme lenghs to disassociate Islam from terrorism, but that actually needs Muslims to actually do something about it and stop making poor excuses, stop blaming the west when there was terrorism way in the past with the Ottomans from the wahhabists and stop with the conspiracy hate of Jews blaming them for the terrorism.

That would be a good start, as the hate stems from one problem, hate promoted, within Mosques, within the internet etc. When are you going to grasp many people suffer an injustice, yet do not turn top violence and even more so to things happenning thousands of miles away, where there only connection is the religion. It is fundementally a narative of hate.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:19 pm

As Goering said - ' the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.'

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:20 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
sassy wrote:Terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda are widely seen as being motivated by their radical theology. But according to Robert Pape, a political scientist at the University of Chicago and founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, this view is too simplistic. Pape knows his subject; he and his colleagues have studied every suicide attack in the world since 1980, evaluating over 4,600 in all.


He says that religious fervor is not a motive unto itself. Rather, it serves as a tool for recruitment and a potent means of getting people to overcome their fear of death and natural aversion to killing innocents.


Absolutely agree.  People like a simple answer, there rarely is one.

Of course, binary simpletons want a simple black or white answer.

That's why Blair and Cameron could get away with their military intervention and other foreign policy.


Well considering I understand and have studied history better than this polictical scientist which is nothing but  a bullshit word, is that his views do not make him an expert on the religious hate that is centuries old.
So you seem to hink by being obtuse you will change anyones minds. I used to buy into this drivel before and thus can see both sides of the argumnents and know through the history aspect Islam is fundemnetally the core problem.
Even more so withthe martydom aspect. I mean you just have to look at the PA and Hamas who glorify terrorists and murderers to understand how a religion allows people to justify their extremism

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:26 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
sassy wrote:As Goering said - ' the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.'

Sounds like something GW Bush would have said. Lol

It's a constant rule that never changes.  Look at how it has been used recently.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:29 pm

So niether can actually counter my points.

Well studying is researching so you just made your own champion look stupid, because he will have read witness accounts himself.

Doh

Let me know when you two apologists stop sucking up to each other and want to take on my points.

Like I say there is nothing worse than apologists who will do anything to steer away problems from a problematic faith.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:32 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Becuase Didge - opinion without knowledge is meaningless.

You say it's obvious but publishing something allows you to be recognised or criticzed amongst your peers. This adds CREDIBILIY to your opinion.

I would have though this would be obvious to wanna be intellectual, like yourself.

Case in point: you say extremism is taught within mosques. How many mosques have you visited? ZERO!

If you want grown ups to take your opinion seriously, then you have to do some grown up stuff and get off your backside.


Well what i can certainly tell you zack is the level of antisemitism within countries and evidence to prove hate is taught in mosques, being as why do they not teach that hate of jews is wrong?
There is your evidence, being they are the religious leaders.
Do you want to see the level of antisemitism in many Muslim countires?
Sorry but your are just a poor apologist who is quite clueless who reads something and never reads anything that counters that view,s because you are too afraid of being wrong.
At least I read and study both arguments and considering you know next to nothing about history you are in no position to even judge

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:40 pm

sassy wrote:As Goering said - ' the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.'

Including Islamic countries.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:53 pm

Of course, applies to any country and any government, any time.

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Re: Religion or Politics: What motivates Islamism?

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:19 pm

sassy wrote:Of course, applies to any country and any government, any time.


Which shows you do not know history, as it does not apply to every country.
Cannot belueve you use a Nazi to back your stance even when I will show he was wrong
Think of the WW1, as that will give you a clue

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