“no ifs, no buts”.

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“no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:20 pm

Back in 2010, David Cameron pledged to reduce net migration into Britain to below 100,000 – “no ifs, no buts”.



Net migration to Britain hits new high of 336,000

The 82,000 rise in overall net migration was fuelled by increase of 62,000 in immigration to 636,000 and a fall of 30,000 in emigration


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/26/net-migration-britain-new-high-ons-immigration

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:09 pm

Who started all this imigration to Britain?
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:34 pm

nicko wrote: Who started all this imigration to Britain?
Well you could go back to Early in the 16th century or more relevant  1945, when the the first groups of Britain’s post-war Caribbean immigrants settled in London.

And when it started is irrelevant although you are obviously chomping at the bit and pass blame to  labor however that not the point is it in your hast to blame labor for everything  

Cameron`s promise was it to reduce labors immigration figures to the tens of thousands from labors figures so don`t go blaming labor they are not in power

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:10 pm

But Bliar did "open the gates" irn, you can't argue about that. Remember the comment Labour made.

We want to rub their noses in it!
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:23 pm

nicko wrote: But Bliar did "open the gates" irn,   you can't argue about that.  Remember the comment Labour made.

We want to rub their noses in it!
er.... if you cant figure out who your actually talking to your unlikely to have a grasp on the actual issue
i am not Irn
and regardless of what labor did or did not do thats not the point i made is it
like so many things with the torys at the election they made promises and "no if or buts" guarantees that have mostly all been broken

however as usually happens when any criticism of the torys lies and un kept promises is brought up the old violin comes out and you blame labor  even when they have not been in power for a long enough time

i could post a huge list of broken election promises made to hoodwink people in to supporting the torys but continually blaming labor is really quite pathetic and disingenuous




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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:33 pm

nicko wrote: But Bliar did "open the gates" irn,   you can't argue about that.  Remember the comment Labour made.

We want to rub their noses in it!
Oh and by the way "rub the Right's nose in diversity", was according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett. and little known speech writer


he said
I remember coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended – even if this wasn't its main purpose – to rub the Right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date.

so unlike your claim ,labor did not say that in fact it is one mans "opinion" one he even qualifies as highlighted

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:47 pm

So labour opened the doors and Tory have failed to close them...


But an impossible task while we remain in the EU...


And here we have another leftie criticising Tory for allowing continued mass immigration when it is something they really support...

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So labour opened the doors and Tory have failed to close them...


But an impossible task while we remain in the EU...


And here we have another leftie criticising Tory for allowing continued mass immigration when it is something they really support...
tommy misses the point again

so why did he promise "no if or buts" if it was as you claim an impossible task and he wants to stay in the EU dosen`t he

no tommy its the hypocracy  i object to especially when you consider immigration is way more now under the torys than it was with labor

i guess he was just pandering to thick racists ass holes for there vote seems to have worked a treat

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:05 pm


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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:08 am

still doesn`t answer my point tommy just the attempt of another poor deflection we are used to from you


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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:13 am

korban dallas wrote:Back in 2010, David Cameron pledged to reduce net migration into Britain to below 100,000 – “no ifs, no buts”.



Net migration to Britain hits new high of 336,000

The 82,000 rise in overall net migration was fuelled by increase of 62,000 in immigration to 636,000 and a fall of 30,000 in emigration


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/26/net-migration-britain-new-high-ons-immigration

Yep. Surely the Tories have bypassed Labour's total by now?

They did sign the Treaty of Rome and the Single European Act and the Mastricht treaty which is where it all started at least from within Europe with free movement.

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:58 am

Irn Bru wrote:
korban dallas wrote:Back in 2010, David Cameron pledged to reduce net migration into Britain to below 100,000 – “no ifs, no buts”.



Net migration to Britain hits new high of 336,000

The 82,000 rise in overall net migration was fuelled by increase of 62,000 in immigration to 636,000 and a fall of 30,000 in emigration


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/26/net-migration-britain-new-high-ons-immigration

Yep. Surely the Tories have bypassed Labour's total by now?

They did sign the Treaty of Rome and the Single European Act and the Mastricht treaty which is where it all started at least from within Europe with free movement.
indeed they have Irn odd considering Cameron no if`s or buts pledge

What i find laughable is the fact they still blame labor and quite disingenuous when you consider nikos  original question re the OP "Who started all this immigration to Britain?" Although we have had immigration in this country since ....well forever in some way or another but the fact that this "mass" immigration is a result of ......Drum roll please ........the date
1973
also known as the year  Britain joined the European Community. Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath took Britain in

So@niko that would be, In answer to your question Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:01 am

What point is that KD?
The absence of the democratic will of the British people being enacted by both labour and Tory...!?


Or are you saying that only the Tory supporting people are thick racist arse holes but the labour supporters who want immigration reduced are not?


Or are you saying three quarters of the population are thick racist arse holes...!?


lol!


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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:28 am

I should have put---"Who was responsible for the mass immigration to Britain"
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:55 am

Korban, I did not ask who took us in, as you very well know, I asked who was responsible for inviting unlimited emigration. It was LABOUR, WAS IT NOT?
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:08 pm

nicko wrote:Korban,   I did not ask who took us in,  as you very well know, I asked who was responsible for inviting unlimited emigration.     It was LABOUR, WAS IT NOT?
its the same question with tory customary spin to avoid culpability ,who opened the door the torys thats a fact and the fact immigration is what 3? times what it was under labor is also a fact

then we have the broken election  promise by the torys  made to reduce immigration "No ifs and buts" yet its increased and its morphed in to an a aspiration rather than a promise  ,so the door was opened by the torys and the torys have let more through the door than labor despite how many labor let through

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Don't lie KD... labour opened the taps on mass immigration as soon as they got in office in 1997...


Plus signed us up to even more open door immigration from east European countries.


It's impossible to stop while remaining part of EU.


But we do now have an up coming referendum on it thanks to UKIP and public pressure to deliver one onto Cameron...

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:22 pm

Korban, if you can't see that Labour started the mass immigration your blind. Bliar started it then fcuked off when it all went pear shaped. No matter how you spin it -it was Labour who started it, no doubt about it.
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:26 am

No, real open door immigration started with the Tories back in the 50/60s when they refused to put in immigration controls.

Before 1962 there was an 'open door' tradition for Commonwealth Immigrants. In fact the British Nationality Act of 1948 uses the terms 'Commonwealth citizen' and 'British subject' as one and the same thing. British passports designated their bearers as citizens of 'the United Kingdom and Colonies', with the implication that every Commonwealth citizen was also a British subject, and, therefore, guaranteed the right of entry to the United Kingdom. The pro-Commonwealth Conservative Government, in power between 1954 and 1961, took the view that immigration controls were unnecessary and divisive.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/caribbean/journeys/legislation.htm

The Tories loved immigration with all that lovely cheap Labour. Just what the doctor ordered really. And then of course there was the Treaty of Rome, the Single Eoropean Act and of course the Maastricht treaty which was the one that opened up our borders to all comers. All signed off by the Tories.

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:18 am

5O@60,? IT wont wash mate, you lefty's always go back years to try to shift the blame. It was Blair who invited every Tom, Dick and Abdul to come here, and they did!
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:11 pm

nicko wrote:5O@60,? IT wont wash mate,  you lefty's always go back years to try to shift the blame.   It was Blair who invited every Tom, Dick and Abdul to come here, and they did!
 

Sorry nicko but the claim being made is that uncontrolled immigration only started under Blair. I just showed that it didn't.

You can't draw a line in time only as far a Blair and ignore what happened before.

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:30 am

Yet again Irn, we agree to differ.
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:18 pm

Before Blair it was tens of thousands... then labour made it hundreds of thousands..

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:53 pm

nicko wrote:Yet again Irn,   we agree to differ.

Indeed we do Nicko. Without any need for abuse or insults - as always.

The way it should be.

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Before Blair it was tens of thousands... then labour made it hundreds of thousands..

It was more than that Tommy and it was the only time ever that we had uncontrolled immigration.

And what is it now? Surely the Tories have eclipsed even Labour's years by now.

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:14 pm

What I say is true... and now we are still suffering from labours signing up to the three EU treaties that allow most of it happening now...

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:14 am

Tommy Monk wrote:What I say is true... and now we are still suffering from labours signing up to the three EU treaties that allow most of it happening now...

Which three EU treaties was that Tommy?

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:30 pm

In April 2003, in Athens, the Treaty of Accession was signed by the present 15
member states...


This was the treaty I was referring to...

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:In April 2003, in Athens, the Treaty of Accession was signed by the present 15
member states...


This was the treaty I was referring to...
Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, which was established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992 so that would still be a tory ie john major who signed it

The Treaty of Accession 2003 was the agreement between the member states of the European Union and ten countries (Czech Republic, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Malta, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia), concerning these countries' accession into the EU

so blair did not open the gates as you say, that was done by john major

what you could arguably claim is that labor was one of the 15 signatory that allowed new members to join the EU

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:37 pm

That is exactly what I am saying... and while immigration levels remained much the same and low after 1993... the numbers rose massively straight away after labour got in govt in 97... and then massively more after they signed up to it in the above mentioned treaty!!!

Which accounts for the huge numbers we suffered from since and that we still suffer from now!!!


And before you start with the false accusations of racism etc... I will say again... I have no problem with individual people generally... what I do have a problem with is the huge numbers and the direct negative impacts this has on myself and many other British people... plus the lack of democratic will of the British people being followed by govts for imposing the policy of mass immigration on us, against our wishes!!!

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:That is exactly what I am saying... and while immigration levels remained much the same and low after 1993... the numbers rose massively straight away after labour got in govt in 97... and then massively more after they signed up to it in the above mentioned treaty!!!

Which accounts for the huge numbers we suffered from since and that we still suffer from now!!!


And before you start with the false accusations of racism etc... I will say again... I have no problem with individual people generally... what I do have a problem with is the huge numbers and the direct negative impacts this has on myself and many other British people... plus the lack of democratic will of the British people being followed by govts for imposing the policy of mass immigration on us, against our wishes!!!
before i start with ....wtf are you on who mentioned racism ?

your premise is labor opened the door that has been shown to be incorrect it was actually the torys
and at the time immigration was low because
1 conflict was not as bad as it is now
2 we did not have fundamental ass holes like Isis ect terrorizing these areas
3 economically we where not as attractive

And as to "imposing mass immigration" also incorrect john major signed the Maastricht Treaty giving free movement within the EU this Gave Eu members the right to move within the EU

labor was one of the "15" signatory's to allow new members to join that body they did not open the door as you claim that was the torys and because of that there was little that could be done legally to stop that free movement as a treaty had been singed

And the fact still remains immigration is now 3 times more than it was under labor all because john major signed a treaty to allow the free movement of Eu citizens
your problem is you cant see any further than your own nose you don`t take in to account the history and only seek to dump all the blame on labor because like most right leaning people your selectively short sighted when it comes to what your "party " does

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:35 pm

You talk complete shite KD...!!!





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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:52 pm

so after john major signed the Maastricht treaty immigration started to climb
thanks for proving my point

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:00 pm

No... after 94 immigration level remained much the same... until labour got in charge in 97 and THEN it started to rise massively!!!


Can't you see the graph...???


Or do you just need someone to help you understand the glaringly obvious...?


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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:05 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No... after 94 immigration level remained much the same... until labour got in charge in 97 and THEN it started to rise massively!!!


Can't you see the graph...???


Or do you just need someone to help you understand the glaringly obvious...?

your a idiot who opened the door john major and the immigration started to climb slowly at first then faster and faster
its like pushing a car once you get it moving as major did then you keep getting faster and faster
thats the facts you won`t agree but there it is your graph shows that

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:10 pm

in fact the upward trend started in 1981 a year after thatcher became PM according to your graph and accelerated when JM signed the treaty

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:15 pm

Look again at the actual immigration line in blue... remained much the same for years... then rose a bit BEFORE 94... THEN STAYED CONSTANT FOR THE 4 YEARS UNTIL 97 WHEN LABOUR GOT IN!!!


THEN IT SKY ROCKETED AND CLEARLY SHOWN!!!!!


PLAIN FOR ALL TO SEE IN GRAPH... JUST AS IT WAS PLAIN TO SEE ON THE STREETS OF UK TOO!!!



YOUR DENIALS ARE A JOKE!!!

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:28 pm



Laughing

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:30 pm

Treason at Maastricht



Tories love immigration - all that cheap Labour Laughing

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Look again at the actual immigration line in blue... remained much the same for years... then rose a bit BEFORE 94... THEN STAYED CONSTANT FOR THE 4 YEARS UNTIL 97 WHEN LABOUR GOT IN!!!


THEN IT SKY ROCKETED AND CLEARLY SHOWN!!!!!


PLAIN FOR ALL TO SEE IN GRAPH... JUST AS IT WAS PLAIN TO SEE ON THE STREETS OF UK TOO!!!



YOUR DENIALS ARE A JOKE!!!
immigration started to rise in 1982 from a downward trend that starts in 1974
it peaks in 1992 at about 325 before a fall for two years it starts to rise again in 1994 and the trend is upwards
and the fact STILL remains it was the signing of the treaty by john major that opened the door in the first place
the only time it remained much the same for years was from 1964-1982 after that it climbed with a couple of fluctuations but it really got going AFTER the treaty was signed by JM

SO AS I HAVE SAID JM OPENED THE DOOR AND YOUR BLAMING LABOR BECAUSE A INCREASING WIND BLEW THROUGH THAT DOOR
PERHAPS IF THE DOOR HAD BEEN KEPT SHUT IN THE FIRST PLACE THING MIGHT BE DIFFERENT

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:32 pm

Maastricht included enlargement of the EU - a fundamental pillar of the Treaty of Rome.

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:33 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Look again at the actual immigration line in blue... remained much the same for years... then rose a bit BEFORE 94... THEN STAYED CONSTANT FOR THE 4 YEARS UNTIL 97 WHEN LABOUR GOT IN!!!


THEN IT SKY ROCKETED AND CLEARLY SHOWN!!!!!


PLAIN FOR ALL TO SEE IN GRAPH... JUST AS IT WAS PLAIN TO SEE ON THE STREETS OF UK TOO!!!



YOUR DENIALS ARE A JOKE!!!
immigration started to rise in 1982 from a downward trend  that starts in 1974
it peaks in 1992 at about 325 before a fall for two years it starts to rise again in 1994 and the trend is upwards
and the fact STILL remains it was the signing of the treaty by john major that opened the door in the first place
the only time it remained much the same for years was from 1964-1982 after that it climbed with a couple of fluctuations but it really got going AFTER the treaty was signed by JM

SO AS I HAVE SAID JM OPENED THE DOOR AND YOUR BLAMING LABOR BECAUSE A INCREASING WIND BLEW THROUGH THAT DOOR  
PERHAPS IF THE DOOR HAD BEEN KEPT SHUT IN THE FIRST PLACE THING MIGHT BE DIFFERENT

That's it KD.

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In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:38 pm

THEN STAYED CONSTANT FOR THE 4 YEARS UNTIL 97 ?

CAN YOU READ A GRAPH 1994 TO 1997 SHOWS A UPWARD TREND NOT A CONSTANT ?


Last edited by korban dallas on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:44 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
immigration started to rise in 1982 from a downward trend  that starts in 1974
it peaks in 1992 at about 325 before a fall for two years it starts to rise again in 1994 and the trend is upwards
and the fact STILL remains it was the signing of the treaty by john major that opened the door in the first place
the only time it remained much the same for years was from 1964-1982 after that it climbed with a couple of fluctuations but it really got going AFTER the treaty was signed by JM

SO AS I HAVE SAID JM OPENED THE DOOR AND YOUR BLAMING LABOR BECAUSE A INCREASING WIND BLEW THROUGH THAT DOOR  
PERHAPS IF THE DOOR HAD BEEN KEPT SHUT IN THE FIRST PLACE THING MIGHT BE DIFFERENT

That's it KD.
Thanks Irn
i think tommy is confused with Net migration rate ,the difference of immigrants and emigrants
And immigration the movement of people into a destination country to which they are not native

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:14 pm

You are complaining about a relative mole hill while completely ignoring the enormous mountain of rise after labour got in in 97...


Twat!!!

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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by nicko on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:22 pm

Who said "we are going to rub their noses in it"?
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Re: “no ifs, no buts”.

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:19 pm






Look at the BLUE LINE again... this shows the total number of immigrants allowed into UK every year...




You can clearly see that it stays largely consistent around the 200,000 mark on average from from 1964 to 1990... then there was a slightly above average peak in 1991 of just over 300,000... and for the first time being over 300,000 throughout the historical period shown in graph...


Followed by a year of much lower levels and much more like the recent normal levels... but then 3 years of just above 300:000 followed again...


But what happened next on graph after labour got power from 1997 onwards...!!!???





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