If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

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If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by eddie on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

What solutions would you offer? What strategies would you choose?
What are your answers?

Genuine answers and stay on topic Rolling Eyes

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:06 am

the lefty mantra of do as we tell you WE know best, doesnt wash any more...too many broken promises, lies and spin

and


corbyn clearly knows bugger all about owt, and that bunch of no hopers he is surrounding himself with collectively have an IQ less than a zabriskan fontema Rolling Eyes

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:12 am

Lord Foul wrote:the lefty mantra of do as we tell you WE know best, doesnt wash any more...too many broken promises, lies and spin

and


corbyn clearly knows bugger all about owt, and that bunch of no hopers he is surrounding himself with collectively have an IQ  less than a zabriskan fontema Rolling Eyes

Who cares if it loses votes, it's more important to sort this.  Who wants to just bomb, Cameron.  Who wants to cut off their money, supplies, stop them selling oil, stop the drugs etc. - Jeremy.  Who has thought about it in depth and not had a knee jerk reaction - Jeremy.  Who was right about Northern Ireland - Jeremy.   I would not care if he lost everything if he came up with a plan for this and set in motion the stategy to bring about a solution.



There's a wilful and widespread misrepresentation of Jeremy Corbyn's position on Syria. It's transparent - and yet many are taken in, so pervasive is it in the media. It's about painting Jeremy Corbyn as an appeaser of ISIS. In fact, along with many others who rightly opposed the Iraq War and have seen the damage that the so called "war on terror" has done, he's looking towards solutions that involve regional actors and can create some sort of functioning government that can oppose ISIS and terrorist violence on the ground. It stems from a belief that, following Iraq, the western powers are not in a position to either impose a settlement or bomb ISIS into submission. It's not - repeat, it is not - about sitting around the negotiating table with ISIS. So, for the record, here's what he actually said.

I am not saying sit around the table with Isis, I am saying bring about a political settlement in Syria which will help then to bring some kind of unity government - technical government - in Syria.


Last edited by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:13 am

do you WANT riots...and a R/W govt in place in this country sassy????

becasue let me tell you...if a govt even the present one, goes against (or fails to engage with at least) public opinion...and something goes tits up there will be hell and high water to come....

yes it neds a measured response...but sitting around vainly hoping to get the world on board dealing with oil barons aint gonna work....

however giving 3 days warning then dropping 10,000 bunker busters on every oil terminal , production facility and pipe line MIGHT do some good....


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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:15 am

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:the lefty mantra of do as we tell you WE know best, doesnt wash any more...too many broken promises, lies and spin

and


corbyn clearly knows bugger all about owt, and that bunch of no hopers he is surrounding himself with collectively have an IQ  less than a zabriskan fontema Rolling Eyes

Who cares if it loses votes, it's more important to sort this.  Who wants to just bomb, Cameron.  Who wants to cut off their money, supplies, stop them selling oil, stop the drugs etc. - Jeremy.  Who has thought about it in depth and not had a knee jerk reaction - Jeremy.  Who was right about Northern Ireland - Jeremy.   I would not care if he lost everything if he came up with a plan for this and set in motion the stategy to bring about a solution.


the consequence are not just "lost votes" though are they....

if his strategy fails to engage with public opinion and something goes wrong.....there will be hell to pay....

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:18 am

And there won't be hell to pay if we just bomb and more refugees are made and Isis carries on with it's terrorisation.

BTW, did Maggie ask the country when we went to war in the Falklands?

And we are not talking about war, we are talking about a proper stategy to bring about IS's downfall, involving many countries who are presently threatened by IS.

And the biggest thing of all is to find out the truth about how they keep going and stop propping up governments who help them, like Saudi

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:28 am

yeah but...you made a very telling pont....

you have in your posts above made just the point why people should NOT vote for this lot of bolsheviks

I mean seriously, are you telling me that you want people to vote KNOWINGLY for a party that will then turn round and tell them "fuck off, we know better than you" AND clearly if its prepared to do that over an issue this important it wiull be quite happy to do the same over other issues...


what next ...unconstitutional dismissal of the upper house, Corbyns republic??

sorry sassy i cant trust a party that already is prepared to wholey ignore public opinion, even BEFORE it becomes a genuine party

we have already had one idea of what is planned with that idiot fossil the other day your "father of the house"

that doddering old fool, who would have 10,000 refugees A DAY brought here....3,65 million a year at a cost of umpteen BILLION thatw would need to be found instantly...along with all the other associated costs...

and you tell me these guys are sensible?????

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:30 am

sassy wrote:And there won't be hell to pay if we just bomb and more refugees are made and Isis carries on with it's terrorisation.

BTW, did Maggie ask the country when we went to war in the Falklands?

Irrelevant...that was a "just cause"  the country had "casus belli"

And we are not talking about war, we are talking about a proper stategy to bring about IS's downfall, involving many countries who are presently threatened by IS.

And the biggest thing of all is to find out the truth about how they keep going and stop propping up governments who help them, like Saudi

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:32 am

Oh don't be so pathetic.  Sod party politics, do you want the world to be a safer place with less refugees or not?   You just watch them bomb and cause more refugees and not stop IS and then we'll hear you moaning about the refugees and think we should listen.  I for one will say, serves you right.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:36 am

My solution would be to stop assisting them.. assuming that leadership actually want to stop ISIS. which i don't think they do

they give enough digital information to target them the WEST is choosing not to for some reason.

ISIS either exists to dissolve the EU as USA, Russia and China have all decided they don't like the idea of a United Europe, that would be a legitimate fourth player in the game of world domination.
Or it is a distraction from something else, If China and the US seem to be getting along I am not sure, cause other wise I would say it is over the south china sea where US military have been 'harassing' Chinese Military.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:41 am

Victor, apologise for calling you pathetic, you aren't.  You are just bloody cranky and cantankerous, and I've been looking after an old cranky, cantankerous bugger all last week.  So once again, sorry.  I think lol

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:45 am

sassy wrote:Oh don't be so pathetic.  Sod party politics, do you want the world to be a safer place with less refugees or not?   You just watch them bomb and cause more refugees and not stop IS and then we'll hear you moaning about the refugees and think we should listen.  I for one will say, serves you right.

but you cant "sod party politics" since they are integral to the whole thing...

Corbyn is nothing but a distraction untill he gets elected

he wont be elected whilst the attitude comes from the grunts..(thats you sassy) that you want the peoples (un) democratic republic of corbyn.

as I said ,,,dump 10,000 bunker busters on the oil infrastructure...put it permanently out of commission....theres half your problem solved in an instant...and the "oil barons" would be left fuming but impotant

instead of doing as that old fool suggested , exchange every fossil fueled vehicle for an equivalent electric one....and abandon the arabs to their desert....

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:47 am

sassy wrote:Victor, apologise for calling you pathetic, you aren't.  You are just bloody cranky and cantankerous, and I've been looking after an old cranky, cantankerous bugger all last week.  So once again, sorry.  I think lol

nowt to do with cranky and cantankerous...

you just cant take the fact that there is someone out there who doesnt want to be ass shafted by Corbyn and his bunch of dismal acolytes (like that fatuous cabbage livingstone) Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:52 am

Lord Foul wrote:
sassy wrote:Victor, apologise for calling you pathetic, you aren't.  You are just bloody cranky and cantankerous, and I've been looking after an old cranky, cantankerous bugger all last week.  So once again, sorry.  I think lol

nowt to do with cranky and cantankerous...

you just cant take the fact that there is someone out there who doesnt want to be ass shafted by Corbyn and his bunch of dismal acolytes (like that fatuous cabbage livingstone) Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

Fancy someone wanting to think about things and do the right thing, never taken a bribe, doesn't claim for a second house, his expenses a re virtually nil, oh yes, really shafting you.  I'm afraid your desire to be seen as a curmugeon has stopped you looking at the facts.  So you just carry on getting shafted, but it won't be by Jeremy.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:04 am

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

nowt to do with cranky and cantankerous...

you just cant take the fact that there is someone out there who doesnt want to be ass shafted by Corbyn and his bunch of dismal acolytes (like that fatuous cabbage livingstone) Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

Fancy someone wanting to think about things and do the right thing, never taken a bribe, doesn't claim for a second house, his expenses a re virtually nil, oh yes, really shafting you.  I'm afraid your desire to be seen as a curmugeon has stopped you looking at the facts.  So you just carry on getting shafted, but it won't be by Jeremy.

quite...and if something is too good to be true...it usually is....

so ...whats his "hidden agenda" Suspect Suspect

little grey men in little grey boxes living little grey approved lives perhaps...

and for such an incorruptible he certainly knows how to pick his associates doesnt he,,


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There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:24 am

What friggin 'hidden agenda'?  He's been fighting for people for over 20 years, has stuck by his principles for all that time, and all of a sudden you think there is a 'hidden agenda'.  The only agenda is the one out in the open, to stop the Tories ruining this country, making the rich richer and the poor poorer, completely buggering up the Health Service and making sure there is no help for the old, sick or infirm.   And making sure people can afford a roof over their heads, warmth and food in their belly.  Some bloody hidden agenda!!!!

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:29 am

You know the saying 'never look a gift horse in the mouth'?   Well you Victor, would not just look it in the mouth, you'd punch it's teeth down it's throat and then wonder why it wouldn't give you a ride.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:33 am

beware of greeks bearing gifts....

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:37 am

moreover , do you really expect me to beleive he's in it for the "feel good factor"?

he has the same trust from me as any other politician...

ally to that labours past "political sins" and the stated intent f a few of his supporters and its not a pretty picture,

it is granted perhaps a bit less ugly than the tories but the total lack of any credible policy added to an almost "it'll be alright on the night (I hope)" attitude is scary

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Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:47 am

He took a lot of persuading and has taken all the shit thrown at him with dignity and courage and never lowered himself to their level.  I think you need to take your nose out of the media rubbish and actually read the policies, they have been set out so that they can be easily understood, and his economic policy has been endorsed by the top economists including the nobel prize winner.  Stop grumbling and find out!

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:35 am


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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:47 am

Sorry but all this babble about economics, oil etc is not going to change the fact there is a fundemental problem in the Muslim majority world. Where if we are being honest if tyrannical regemes like the House of Saud, lost its economic strengh through oil, they were be replaced by an even more repressive Theocracy on a par with the Taliban and ISIS. I mean clearly some people have not studied the history of the Taliban and its time in power in Afghanistan. You could make the world a far better place far more greener in how we produce energy, but that is not going to change in any shape or form the derisive ideological beliefs of the extremists. It is a our very way of life, that they are at war with and people need to start waking up to this, before this does end up being a global problem. Until you get to the heart of the problem, which stems from the religion Islam itself, then the problem will only continue to grow.

I mean it is so obvious that the first step needed to help combat the rise of islamic extremism is to disassociate Islam from the extremist views. It requires the Muslim religious authorities of the world to deligitmize the extremists as Muslims. As stated to do this means seperating extremist ideas from any connection to Islam. You have to get at the heart of the problem which at present there is very little to seperate the narative between extremists and non-extremists alike.

I mean could you actually imagine going back to 1939 and the left making their same arguments about the Nazi's and their ideology. As we would clearly all be speaking German today, if people had listened to their apologist nonsense. I mean the left have no propblem rightly attacking the ideology of Nazism, but when  it comes to another problematic ideology in Islamism, they promote the worst double standards going. The same people also have little problem attacking Christianity when wrongs are promoted against groups by neo conservative Christian groups. Again religions are just belief systems and where they conflict with the well being and equality of people then they should most definately be castigated and show to be wrong. To fundementally ignore that it is Islamic doctrine that allows these extremists to commit these acts and willingly give their lives based from the most abhorant belief of Martydom, shows how some of the left are in constant denial.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:51 am

Lord Foul wrote:
sassy wrote:

This is probably the most complicated problem of the century, it needs brains and strategy and deep thinking and an ability not to be swayed by public opinion.  So that rules UK right out.

In that I think you are seriously wrong...labour tried that with mass immigration, leading to the rise of the ukip

public opinion MUST be taken into account...or there will be trouble...even more so if something goes wrong with a paticular strategy

you forget in your leftist power grab....THEY (the govt) are there to serve US...NOT the otherway round....




Yes, don't let public opinion get in the way in a democracy eh Sassy ..!?


lol!

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:53 am

as i said BOTH approaches are needed

in the short term we have to starve the snake of its oxygen
in the long term we have as you say didge to sort out the ideology...

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:21 pm

Lord Foul wrote:as i said BOTH approaches are needed

in the short term we have to starve the snake of its oxygen
in the long term we have as you say didge to sort out the ideology...

Rubbish, Didge is doing IS's job for them.  The religion means absolutely nothing to them, as people held hostage by them have testified.  They are simply drug addled thugs.  What they want you to believe is that they are doing it in the name of religion, because they want a wedge driven between Muslims and the rest of the world, and you and Didge and others like you and not only falling for it, but helping them perpetuate the lie and spread their propaganda.  They love people like Didge, the more people like him there are, the happier they are.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:57 pm

As to be expected the left live up to their name and make the most unfounded accusations that completely do not hold up to any scrutiny. when it is the left that aid the likes of ISIS with their apologist arguments.
For example from where such extremists have been asked on this very point.



In my role as a member of the Intelligence Committee in the Israeli parliament and in my previous role as a member of Israel’s security cabinet, I was exposed to a huge amount of intelligence information that deals with the questions of how Islamic terrorists view Westerners who try to explain their actions with political correctness. The answer is that they think it serves their aims and helps them achieve a global Islamist revolution. On that, and only on that, I agree with them.


http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/when-Muslims-murder-christians-blame-the-jews/



The biggest error that sassy makes is that I am trying to instill hate in Muslims, which is also very ignorant when as seen I am trying to seperate Islam and thus Muslims from being associasted with Islamism. So as seen it is people like you Sassy as to who they love, mainly because you forgo equality and about Liberal value there is because you are afraid of sensitivities of speaking rightly about problematic issues within a religion istelf.

Maybe Sassy you could also explain why you think if the religion meant nothing to ISIS .Then why do they willingly forfeit their lives in many of these attacks? They are not the only Islamic terrorists to believe this, as many political Islamic groups do. The recent glorification by the likes of Fatah and Hamas in regards to Palestinian terrorists who have murdered and attemped to murder Israeli civilians, provides further countless evidence how the religion is fundementally associated. Here we see how just as the Nazi's did, they deligitimize the human status of Israeli/Jews, in order to justify murdering them. So through the religious belief, the act of murder is instead excused and not condemned as a grevious sin. Where in fact a view is promoted that instead claims such vile acts are rewarded in the after life. They clearly believe that through Martydom, their going to be rewarded in a mythical after life. with the view, this is the most glorified way to gaining entry to their after life belief system. Martydom is fundementally an Islamic belief.  You see, people are starting to wake up to the myths the left invent to protect bad beliefs.


Last edited by Didge on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:47 pm

Just want to point out that even so called Al Qeada scholars have distanced themselves from ISIS.

Not just Sunni's, Shia's and even (as Didge calls them) Wahabis.

That's how unrepresentative they (ISIS) are of Islam.
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:52 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Just want to point out that even so called Al Qeada scholars have distanced themselves from ISIS.

Not just Sunni's, Shia's and even (as Didge calls them) Wahabis.

That's how unrepresentative they (ISIS) are of Islam.

Yet Al Qaeda are also very much claiming to represent Islam. They are also proponents of Waahhabism, just more extreme than they are but their core beliefs are fundementally the same. It is only on how each act, which is the only reall difference. They both still hold very similar beliefs in Islamism.
Which furthers shows the religion itself is problematic.
Hence again that it is fundemental that through Muslim religious leaders they need to dissassociate Islam from the extremist Islamism.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Irn Bru on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:12 pm

What needs to happen is that the oil plants that are producing the oil in ISIS controlled areas need to be put out of action stopping the revenue streams that are funding them but more importantly stopping the supply of the fuel that ISIS needs to keep their war machine going – their vehicles and armour can’t run on dry tanks.  That can be done without destroying the whole plant. Increase the Tidal Wave II campaign to take out the supply tankers that are hauling the fuel away that ISIS badly needs to keep going.  Dropping a bomb on just one armoured vehicle or a small convoy  at a time isn’t going to get us anywhere fast. All export licences supplying equipment to nation states found to be aiding ISIS with funds should be suspended immediately. That includes ongoing technical support for equipment already sold.

Russia and the USA need to broker a ceasefire between the rival factions that are fighting each other rather than fighting ISIS which leaves them free to operate in a vacuum. That means compromise and hard as it is to get this resolved that means engaging with Assad who like it or not is a player in this whole conflict. The one thing ISIS fear more than anything is unity not more bombs and rockets.

That all has to be linked to a diplomatic post-war outcome resulting in free and fair elections in Syria forming a government chosen by the people. Both sides (Assad and the Rebel factions) have been accused of using chemical weapons as well as killing thousands which is a war crime so a decision needs to be taken on how to deal with that in a way for the greater good by each side agreeing to a coalition to defeat ISIS.

There are millions of Muslims on this planet that have nothing to do with ISIS and don’t support what brand of Islam they claim to represent because most of them don’t recognise it and if they did then the ISIS numbers would swell way beyond the numbers they already have. With some of the rhetoric that I see going around I’m not surprised that many in the Muslim community are frightened at the backlash that will come at them  In fact I’ve seen reports that that has already happened.

No doubt Anders Breivik is sitting smugly in his cell in Norway saying I told you so.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:24 pm

And Irn illustrates perfectly the point I am making of left wing view points that fail to grasped the reality of a problematic situation.
There are millions of Muslims that support suicide bombing, because there is nothing to stop this being associated to Islam.
There are millions of Muslims who believe there is a war being waged against Islam and see those Non_Muslim as the enemy.
There are millions of Muslims who glorify murderers through martydom.

I could go on, but the point is that it maybe a minority of the worlds Muslims that believe this and many other views, but it is a substantial minority in the tens of millions that believe this view of Islam.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by nicko on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:38 pm

Poll taken In England, 1 in 5 young Muslims support ISIS.
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by sassy on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:53 pm

Good grief Nicko, do you have a brain in your head?

No, one in five British Muslims don't support Isis
A poll in The Sun newspaper has been badly interpreted

The Sun newspaper’s Monday front page leads with the claim that one in five British Muslims have some sympathy with people travelling abroad to fight on the side of jihadis in Syria. 
There are some very big problems with this story and the way it has interpreted a poll.

The controversial Sun front page

The poll question the story is based on does not even mention jihadis


Armed fighters of the Syrian Kurdish People's Protection Units gather on a street before fighting against Isis

The newspaper’s headline claims that one in five British Muslims have some sympathy for Jihadis. This assertion is based on a polling question whether respondents have “sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria”.

Respondents were allowed to say whether they had “a lot” “some” or “no” sympathy with such people travelling to Syria.

The problem with the Sun’s interpretation of this poll is that people travelling to Syria are not necessarily going to fight on the side of jihadis. 
There have been high-profile examples of British people going to fight on the side of, for instance, the Kurds, who are fighting against Isis.

Much of the media coverage of these people has been quite positive and such fighters were labelled “heroes” in the national press after a Channel 4 documentary aired about them in September.

The open wording of the question means that any number could have this group of people going to fight Isis in mind.

The poll’s methodology means it will give a big number


Muslims and community leaders have condemned the Paris attacks

There are two things about the way the poll is structured that are likely to inflate the percentage rate saying they have sympathy.

The first and most important is the wording of the question. “Sympathy” is a very broad term and does not necessarily imply full-blooded support.

 People who say they have sympathy with something might be saying they understand why someone has come to do something, even if they think it is wrong. They may even simply be saying that feel bad for a person in that situation.

Secondly, the fact that respondents were allowed to say they had “a lot” or “some” sympathy rather than a forced choice between “some” or “none” is significant. Methodologically, the moderate choice in a poll is disproportionately likely to be picked; this inflates the number of people with sympathy.

There are also questions about whether it is possible to accurately poll British Muslims, who make up about five per cent of the UK population, with an online poll with a 1,000 person sample size.

The number is no different to non-Muslims


The biggest problem with the poll is that if you ask non-Muslims the same questions, they actually provide very similar responses.

The same poll question, asked for Sky News in March to all GB residents – found that 14 per cent of the general population had some “sympathy” for young Muslims leaving to fight in Syria.


This is about the same, taking into account sample variation, as the figure for just Muslims when the poll was asked. It also predates a lot of the coverage of people going to Syria to fight the Kurds.

Maria Sobolewska, a Manchester University academic, has studied similar polls on attitudes to extremism.

Across all comparisons she found similar levels of support in Muslim communities and the general population and concluded last year that it was possible to “say with certainty that public opinion polls have no value for estimating the number of prospective and likely extremists and terrorists”.

What are the consequences of this?


Women wearing burqas are disproportionately victims of hate crimes

Coincidentally, the Independent today published figures showing that in one week since the Paris attacks, hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300 per cent in the UK.

Most of the 115 victims in the past week follow 13 November have been Muslim girls and women aged from 14 and 45 wearing traditional Islamic dress.

Coverage like The Sun’s front page gives the impression that at least a part of the Muslim community support atrocities.

People carrying out such hate crimes presumably think, for some reason, ordinary Muslims have some sympathy with the Paris attacks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/no-one-in-five-Muslims-do-not-support-isis-a6745206.html

Huge numbers of people have got in touch with
https://www.ipso.co.uk/IPSO/makeacomplaint.html
to make a complaint.  Thankfully, there are decent people out there who don't read rags like the Sun and aren't taken in by their filth.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:58 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Just want to point out that even so called Al Qeada scholars have distanced themselves from ISIS.

Not just Sunni's, Shia's and even (as Didge calls them) Wahabis.

That's how unrepresentative they (ISIS) are of Islam.

Yet Al Qaeda are also very much claiming to represent Islam. They are also proponents of Waahhabism, just more extreme than they are but their core beliefs are fundementally the same. It is only on how each act, which is the only reall difference. They both still hold very similar beliefs in Islamism.
Which furthers shows the religion itself is problematic.
Hence again that it is fundemental that through Muslim religious leaders they need to dissassociate Islam from the extremist Islamism.

Who's "they"?

First you refer "they" to Islamists and then in your last sentence you say "through Muslim religious leaders THEY need to dissassociate Islam from extremist Islamism".

????
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:37 pm

Poll on ISIS are irrelevant.
What is relevant is how many Muslims share the same ideology, whether it be the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas etc. If that ideology glorifies murderers et, then there is very little that difference in the ideology.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:39 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yet Al Qaeda are also very much claiming to represent Islam. They are also proponents of Waahhabism, just more extreme than they are but their core beliefs are fundementally the same. It is only on how each act, which is the only reall difference. They both still hold very similar beliefs in Islamism.
Which furthers shows the religion itself is problematic.
Hence again that it is fundemental that through Muslim religious leaders they need to dissassociate Islam from the extremist Islamism.

Who's "they"?

First you refer "they" to Islamists and then in your last sentence you say "through Muslim religious leaders THEY need to dissassociate Islam from extremist Islamism".

????

Well the first they comes after Al Qaeda and thus refers to Al Qaeda in the first sentene here
Al Qaeda are islamists
The last they is in regards to the Muslim religious leaders.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:44 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Who's "they"?

First you refer "they" to Islamists and then in your last sentence you say "through Muslim religious leaders THEY need to dissassociate Islam from extremist Islamism".

????

Well the first they comes after Al Qaeda and thus refers to Al Qaeda in the first sentene here
Al Qaeda are islamists
The last they is in regards to the Muslim religious leaders.

That still doesn't make sense, to me at least. Through Muslim leaders, Muslim leaders (they) need to disassociate Islam from extremist Islam"?

Anyway - which Muslim leaders are you talking about?
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:52 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Well the first they comes after Al Qaeda and thus refers to Al Qaeda in the first sentene here
Al Qaeda are islamists
The last they is in regards to the Muslim religious leaders.

That still doesn't make sense, to me at least. Through Muslim leaders, Muslim leaders (they) need to disassociate Islam from extremist Islam"?

Anyway - which Muslim leaders are you talking about?

I am not surprised it makes little sense to you, which just backs up what I have been saying is part of the problem.
Muslim religious leaders, like Imans, scholars.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

That still doesn't make sense, to me at least. Through Muslim leaders, Muslim leaders (they) need to disassociate Islam from extremist Islam"?

Anyway - which Muslim leaders are you talking about?

I am not surprised it makes little sense to you, which just backs up what I have been saying is part of the problem.
Muslim religious leaders, like Imans, scholars.

Which imams and scholars?

I want you to be specific.
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:54 pm

Muslims
Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

I am not surprised it makes little sense to you, which just backs up what I have been saying is part of the problem.
Muslim religious leaders, like Imans, scholars.

Which imams and scholars?

I want you to be specific.



Muhammad
Ahmed
Bob

How absurd a point. I would say the vast majority of them.

The point is on the fact many of them should be doing this.
If you want specifics it fails to understand the point made. They are seen by Muslims as the religious authorities on Islam and hence the point on them leading Islam away from extremist ideology.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:18 pm

Didge wrote:Muslims
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Which imams and scholars?

I want you to be specific.



Muhammad
Ahmed
Bob

How absurd a point. I would say the vast majority of them.

The point is on the fact many of them should be doing this.
If you want specifics it fails to understand the point made. They are seen by Muslims as the religious authorities on Islam and hence the point on them leading Islam away from extremist ideology.

I just wanted to know how much you were actually aware of, in he Muslim community.

Which you evidently do not know much.

So let me tell you, the vast majority of scholars have (on public record) condemned extremism and terrorism.

I actually thought you had actual examples becuase you're usually so knowledgeable. Guess I was wrong.
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:22 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:Muslims




Muhammad
Ahmed
Bob

How absurd a point. I would say the vast majority of them.

The point is on the fact many of them should be doing this.
If you want specifics it fails to understand the point made. They are seen by Muslims as the religious authorities on Islam and hence the point on them leading Islam away from extremist ideology.

I just wanted to know how much you were actually aware of, in he Muslim community.

Which you evidently do not know much.

So let me tell you, the vast majority of scholars have (on public record) condemned extremism and terrorism.

I actually thought you had actual examples becuase you're usually so knowledgeable. Guess I was wrong.


Yes please list the amount of scholars on record that have condemned Palestinian terrorism on Israeli civillians in the name of Islam?


I am aware of some scholars and Imans showing the poorest double standards over which terrorists they choose to condemn.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:42 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I just wanted to know how much you were actually aware of, in he Muslim community.

Which you evidently do not know much.

So let me tell you, the vast majority of scholars have (on public record) condemned extremism and terrorism.

I actually thought you had actual examples becuase you're usually so knowledgeable. Guess I was wrong.


Yes please list the amount of scholars on record that have condemned Palestinian terrorism on Israeli civillians in the name of Islam?


I am aware of some scholars and Imans showing the poorest double standards over which terrorists they choose to condemn.

Lol!

Firstly, this thread is about Isis.

Secondly, you couldn't even give me ONE name and you want me to give you a list? HA HA!

Your goal widening posts are pathetic.

Start a thread about Palestine and I'll give you examples of scholars who have condemned terror against Isrseli civilians/innocents.
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:48 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


Yes please list the amount of scholars on record that have condemned Palestinian terrorism on Israeli civillians in the name of Islam?


I am aware of some scholars and Imans showing the poorest double standards over which terrorists they choose to condemn.

Lol!

Firstly, this thread is about Isis.

Secondly, you couldn't even give me ONE name and you want me to give you a list? HA HA!

Your goal widening posts are pathetic.

Start a thread about Palestine and I'll give you examples of scholars who have condemned terror against Isrseli civilians/innocents.


No its fundementally about all Islamic extremism, as they are all connected by Islam..

The point is you cannot even post one Muslim scholar or religious leader that has condemned any terrorism in the name of Islam against Israeli's.
The very point you miss and what keeps very much the association to Islam.
My point has always been on disassociating terrorism from Islam, so how you then try to poorly worm out of this claiming its only about ISIS, when its about any terrorist Islamic group is nothing short of a copout on your part.
So I am not going to start any thread, as it is because of the same islamic doctrines that glorify terrorists as martyrs. The same doctrine that makes Muslims willingly give their lives to an absurd belief system
So either put up or shut up, its that simple

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:53 pm

NO it fundamentally about ALL extremism!!
not just Islamic

Why pick on Muslims there is enough Abrahamist of other sorts that are just as primitive and prejudiced ?

Jewish Extremism should be the first dealt with since it is the oldest than Christian Extremism than Islamic Extremism.

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:55 pm

veya_victaous wrote:NO it fundamentally about ALL extremism!!
not just Islamic

Why pick on Muslims there is enough Abrahamist of other sorts that are just as primitive and prejudiced ?

Jewish Extremism should be the first dealt with since it is the oldest than Christian Extremism than Islamic Extremism.


Because fundementally it is Islamic extremism and terrorism that most people are having to deal with at present.
Jewish extremists?
List the countries under threat from them?
Compare the list of nations under Islamic terrorism?

In your own time

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:59 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lol!

Firstly, this thread is about Isis.

Secondly, you couldn't even give me ONE name and you want me to give you a list? HA HA!

Your goal widening posts are pathetic.

Start a thread about Palestine and I'll give you examples of scholars who have condemned terror against Isrseli civilians/innocents.


No its fundementally about all Islamic extremism, as they are all connected by Islam..

The point is you cannot even post one Muslim scholar or religious leader that has condemned any terrorism in the name of Islam against Israeli's.
The very point you miss and what keeps very much the association to Islam.
My point has always been on disassociating terrorism from Islam, so how you then try to poorly worm out of this claiming its only about ISIS, when its about any terrorist Islamic group is nothing short of a copout on your part.
So I am not going to start any thread, as it is because of the same islamic doctrines that glorify terrorists as martyrs. The same doctrine that makes Muslims willingly give their lives to an absurd belief system
So either put up or shut up, its that simple

Don't tell me to put or shut up? Who the fuck do you think you are? Don't say something you'll never say to my face.

I'll give you one more chance to ask me nicely.
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:01 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


No its fundementally about all Islamic extremism, as they are all connected by Islam..

The point is you cannot even post one Muslim scholar or religious leader that has condemned any terrorism in the name of Islam against Israeli's.
The very point you miss and what keeps very much the association to Islam.
My point has always been on disassociating terrorism from Islam, so how you then try to poorly worm out of this claiming its only about ISIS, when its about any terrorist Islamic group is nothing short of a copout on your part.
So I am not going to start any thread, as it is because of the same islamic doctrines that glorify terrorists as martyrs. The same doctrine that makes Muslims willingly give their lives to an absurd belief system
So either put up or shut up, its that simple

Don't tell me to put or shut up? Who the fuck do you think you are? Don't say something you'll never say to my face.

I'll give you one more chance to ask me nicely.


Ha ha Ha ha ha ha

I am saying to your face now

Do grow up, you demanded off me a moment ago and now make yourself look a complete hypocrite.

Again put up or shut up its that simple you child,

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:03 pm

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:NO it fundamentally about ALL extremism!!
not just Islamic

Why pick on Muslims there is enough Abrahamist of other sorts that are just as primitive and prejudiced ?

Jewish Extremism should be the first dealt with since it is the oldest than Christian Extremism than Islamic Extremism.


Because fundementally it is Islamic extremism and terrorism that most people are having to deal with at present.
Jewish extremists?
List the countries under threat from them?
Compare the list of nations under Islamic terrorism?

In your own time

Cause the world has ALMOST solved it  Suspect Suspect Suspect then time to work on the Christians tongue tongue tongue

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:05 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Don't tell me to put or shut up? Who the fuck do you think you are? Don't say something you'll never say to my face.

I'll give you one more chance to ask me nicely.


Ha ha Ha ha ha ha

I am saying to your face now

Do grow up, you demanded off me a moment ago and now make yourself look a complete hypocrite.

Again put up or shut up its that simple you child,

No, you're protected behind your little keyboard Mr Warrior. tongue

I asked you to start a thread. I didn't tell you to shut up. You would never say that to my face. So adjust your attitude if you want me to be cooperative. Ask me nicely.
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Fuzzy Zack
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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:06 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:


Because fundementally it is Islamic extremism and terrorism that most people are having to deal with at present.
Jewish extremists?
List the countries under threat from them?
Compare the list of nations under Islamic terrorism?

In your own time

Cause the world has ALMOST solved it  Suspect Suspect Suspect then time to work on the Christians tongue tongue tongue

There has never been a global threat from Jewish extremism, only under the mindset of the Nazi's and today with Islamists. That may tell you something more about far right extremism and Islamic extremism

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Re: If you were a leader, and had a say, what would be YOUR solution to stopping ISIS?

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:09 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


Ha ha Ha ha ha ha

I am saying to your face now

Do grow up, you demanded off me a moment ago and now make yourself look a complete hypocrite.

Again put up or shut up its that simple you child,

No, you're protected behind your little keyboard Mr Warrior. tongue

I asked you to start a thread. I didn't tell you to shut up. You would never say that to my face. So adjust your attitude if you want me to be cooperative. Ask me nicely.


Calm down macho man, at every opportunity you want to flex your pegion chest and its boring, as frankly you are getting very tedious with your immature points.
You demanded I start another thread in order for you to answer.
That is a demand, making you a complete hypocrite and all you are doing here is deflecting as per usual and proving once again you are nothing more than a little brat,

Again put up or shut up as your macho act just makes me PMSL

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