Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

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Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:38 pm

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Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has publicly confirmed for the first time that he turned down a peace offer in 2008 that would have provided for an independent Palestinian state containing all of the Gaza Strip, much of the West Bank (with land swaps), and a tunnel connecting the two areas. Abbas made his comments in an interview on Israel’s Channel 10, which has been broadcasting a three-part series on the peace talks of 2000 and 2008. According to both Abbas and Ehud Olmert, Israel’s Prime Minister in 2008, Olmert presented Abbas in September of that year with a map that delineated the borders of the future State of Palestine. Abbas said that he “rejected it out of hand” because he claimed not to be an expert on maps, and because Olmert’s domestic scandals meant that he would shortly leave office (Olmert was later convicted of corruption). While both Olmert and other Palestinian leaders have previously said that Abbas turned down a peace proposal, this is the first time that the Palestinian Authority president has admitted as such. At 24:05 of the video, Channel 10 reporter Raviv Drucker asked Abbas: “In the map that Olmert presented you, Israel would annex 6.3 percent [of the West Bank] and compensate the Palestinians with 5.8 percent [taken from pre-1967 Israel]. What did you propose in return?”


http://www.thetower.org/2580-breaking-abbas-admits-for-the-first-time-that-he-turned-down-peace-offer-in-2008/


So that is now 4 times that a Palestinian state could have been created, with lasting peace and 4 times the Palestinians have spurned the chance to do so.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:45 pm

sassy wrote:
Didge wrote:

You are in denail and four times the Palestinians have thrown away the chance for a nation and all because they view all israel as occupied, any dummy can see that except you of course


Only in your miasma of a brain, the facts speak differently.

The facts speak plainly that the Palestinians refuse to deal and have peace with israel
Egypt has.
Jordan has
The question then remians why does the Palestinians keep refusing to do so.
Its down to them and Israel has made concessions many times when they should have never have needed to when attacked by aggressor nations.
So the facts are well and truly against you

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:46 pm

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:


It was rejected by Abbas just like all the other times they could have had a recognsed state

You just hate facts

You're in denail Didge. Olmert says it like it was in the interview. No peace deal was rejected and he expalins in full why and when the talks ended.

You are in denail and four times the Palestinians have thrown away the chance for a nation and all because they view all israel as occupied, any dummy can see that except you of course

Go and read the Likud Party charter to see that they were never offered a state of their own. Basically surrender and we'll let you run a little local government under our control.

You're trully deluded.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:49 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

You are in denail and four times the Palestinians have thrown away the chance for a nation and all because they view all israel as occupied, any dummy can see that except you of course

Go and read the Likud Party charter to see that they were never offered a state of their own. Basically surrender and we'll let you run a little local government under our control.

You're trully deluded.

You are deluded if like with many times Israel has extended peace with concessions and its has always been turned down.
As stated to sassy
The facts speak plainly that the Palestinians refuse to deal and have peace with israel
Egypt has.
Jordan has
The question then remians why does the Palestinians keep refusing to do so.
Its down to them and Israel has made concessions many times when they should have never have needed to when attacked by aggressor nations.
So the facts are well and truly against you

People who want peace accept peace and the Palestinians never have.
Its time you woke up nfrom this delusions you live in Irn because its nonsense

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:50 pm

Honestly, you couldn't make up how deluded he is.  Perhaps we should get in touch with Israel and tell them there is a hasbara troll they are getting for free.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:50 pm

Palestinians Rejected Statehood Three Times, Claim Frustration -- with Israel


Palestinian spokesmen from PLO leader Mahmoud Abbas on down have expressed their frustration with the Oslo peace process, charging that it failed and is dead, thanks to alleged Israeli intransigence, and that therefore they have no choice but to go to the United Nations to seek full membership and therefore statehood.

 

It should be noted at the outset that for the Palestinians to unilaterally declare statehood, or even to take the issue to the United Nations, would be a grave violation of the PLO's signed agreements with Israel, which explicitly barred such unilateral actions and appeals to outside parties. All of these agreements were also witnessed by outside parties including the United States, Russia, Norway, the EU, etc. If any of these countries now go along with material violations of agreements that they witnessed, that would raise serious questions about the worth of such agreements and the worth of such witnessing.

 

As for Palestinian frustration, they may indeed be frustrated with more than 18 years of on-again, off-again negotiations, but the question is with whom should they be frustrated – Israel, or their own leaders? For the fact is, just as the legendary Israeli diplomat Abba Eban once said about relations between the Arabs and Israel, "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," and there have been many statehood opportunities that Palestinian leaders have wilfully missed.

 

Why do the Palestinians refuse a negotiated peace? Because a negotiated peace means the end of the conflict, or at least promising to end the conflict and accept Israel. But the Palestinian leadership wants a state so that they can continue the conflict from a stronger position. In particular, they want a state and they want to keep pressing in every way for the "right of return" to Israel.
 
Israel would not agree to that in negotiations, which is why Palestinians want a state without negotiations, and without having to make any compromises.

In accord with this, at least three times the Palestinians have refused statehood when it was offered to them, most recently just a few years ago. Here are the details:

1. In 2008, after extensive talks, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and presented a comprehensive peace plan. Olmert's plan would have annexed the major Israeli settlements to Israel and in return given equivalent Israeli territory to the Palestinians, and would have divided Jerusalem.

Numerous settlements including Ofra, Elon Moreh, Beit El and Kiryat Arba would have been evacuated, and Hebron would have been abandoned. Tens of thousands of settlers would have been uprooted. Olmert even says preliminary agreement had been reached with Abbas on refugees and the Palestinian claim to a "right of return."

Olmert recounted much of this in an interview with Greg Sheridan in the Australian newspaper:

From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008 I think I met with Abu Mazen more often than any Israeli leader has ever met any Arab leader. I met him more than 35 times. They were intense, serious negotiations.
On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan. It was based on the following principles.
One, there would be a territorial solution to the conflict on the basis of the 1967 borders with minor modifications on both sides. Israel will claim part of the West Bank where there have been demographic changes over the last 40 years...
And four, there were security issues. [Olmert says he showed Abbas a map, which embodied all these plans. Abbas wanted to take the map away. Olmert agreed, so long as they both signed the map. It was, from Olmert's point of view, a final offer, not a basis for future negotiation. But Abbas could not commit. Instead, he said he would come with experts the next day.]
He (Abbas) promised me the next day his adviser would come. But the next day Saeb Erekat rang my adviser and said we forgot we are going to Amman today, let's make it next week. I never saw him again. (Nov. 28, 2009)

And this is not just a self-serving claim by Olmert – Abbas, in an interview with Jackson Diehl of the Washington Post, confirmed the outlines of the Olmert offer and that he turned it down:

In our meeting Wednesday, Abbas acknowledged that Olmert had shown him a map proposing a Palestinian state on 97 percent of the West Bank -- though he complained that the Israeli leader refused to give him a copy of the plan. He confirmed that Olmert "accepted the principle" of the "right of return" of Palestinian refugees -- something no previous Israeli prime minister had done -- and offered to resettle thousands in Israel. In all, Olmert's peace offer was more generous to the Palestinians than either that of Bush or Bill Clinton; it's almost impossible to imagine Obama, or any Israeli government, going further.
Abbas turned it down. "The gaps were wide," he said. (May 29, 2009)

Ha'aretz published Olmert's map, showing a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza with a free passage route to connect them. The map, which also showed the Israeli territory that would have been swapped with the Palestinians in return for annexing some Israeli settlements to Israel, is reproduced below:


 

2. In the summer of 2000 US President Bill Clinton hosted intense peace talks at Camp David between Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli leader Ehud Barak, culminating in a comprehensive peace plan known as the Clinton Parameters, which was similar to the later Olmert Plan, though not quite as extensive.

Despite the vast concessions the plan required of Israel, Prime Minister Barak accepted President Clinton's proposal, while Arafat refused, returned home, and launched a new terror campaign against Israeli civilians (the Second Intifada).

Despite the violence, Prime Minister Barak continued to negotiate to the end of his term, culminating in an Israeli proposal at Taba which extended the Clinton proposal. Barak offered the Palestinians all of Gaza and most of the West Bank, no Israeli control over the border with Jordan or the adjacent Jordan Valley, a small Israeli annexation around three settlement blocs balanced by an equivalent area of Israeli territory that would have been ceded to the Palestinians. As chief US negotiator Ambassador Dennis Ross put it in a FoxNews interview:

... the Palestinians would have in the West Bank an area that was contiguous. Those who say there were cantons, completely untrue. It was contiguous... And to connect Gaza with the West Bank, there would have been an elevated highway, an elevated railroad, to ensure that there would be not just safe passage for the Palestinians, but free passage. (Fox News, April 21, 2002)

According to Ambassador Ross, Palestinian negotiators working for Arafat wanted him to accept the Clinton Parameters, but he refused. In response to Brit Hume’s question as to why Arafat turned these deals down, Ross said:

Because fundamentally I do not believe he can end the conflict. We had one critical clause in this agreement, and that clause was, this is the end of the conflict.

Arafat's whole life has been governed by struggle and a cause. Everything he has done as leader of the Palestinians is to always leave his options open, never close a door. He was being asked here, you've got to close the door. For him to end the conflict is to end himself.

Here's the Taba map proposed by Israel, which was once again turned down by Arafat:


3. UN Resolution 181, the Partition Resolution, passed in November 1947, called for the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state in the land which at that point was controlled by the British-run Palestine Mandate. All the Arab countries opposed the resolution, voted against it, and promised to go to war to prevent its implementation. Representing the Palestinians, the Arab Higher Committee also opposed the plan and threatened war, while the Jewish Agency, representing the Jewish inhabitants of the Palestine Mandate, supported the plan.

The Arabs and the Palestinians were true to their word and did launch a war against the Jews of Palestine, violating both Resolution 181 and the UN Charter. Much to the surprise of the Arab side, the Jews were able to survive the initial onslaughts and eventually win the war.

The fundamental fact remains that had the Arabs and the Palestinians accepted the Partition Resolution and not violated the UN Charter by attacking Israel, there would be a 63-year-old Palestinian state today next to Israel, and there would not have been a single Palestinian refugee.

Just as today, it seems that even in 1948 the Arab side was more concerned with opposing and attacking the Jewish state than with creating a Palestinian state.

Besides the above statehood opportunities, there were other notable opportunities that were missed too, such as the 1978 Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt, which provided for Palestinian autonomy in the territories of the West Bank and Gaza. Egyptian President Anwar Sadat begged the PLO and Yasir Arafat to accept what he had negotiated with Israel, and to engage in talks with Israel. President Carter also called on moderate Palestinians to come forward and join the Cairo conference. Unfortunately Arafat refused and did everything he could to undermine Sadat and the Camp David Accords, with PLO gunmen even murdering West Bank Palestinians who supported Sadat's approach.

 

While the Palestinian people have much to be frustrated about, the object of their frustration should be not Israel, but their own leaders, who have thrown away opportunity after opportunity to establish the Palestinian state they claim to desire above all else.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:54 pm

Camera again, and  Olmerts has already said they were inaccurate and Abbas did not turn it down, which Irn has gone over for you many times, and Olmert is the ONLY ONCE WHO KNOW THE TRUTH, not a hasbara site like Camera.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:55 pm

Yes the facts again which you have never been able to refute

Funny how you have no response yet again Sassy

That is what you call checkmate

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:56 pm

HE never saw Abbas again becausehe was out of office with no authority. Abbas never said no - fact.

Full sovereign statehood was never offered - not ever - Fact.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:58 pm

From Camera - the organisation scolded by wiki for attempting to influence the subjects in Israel's favour.

And you call that checkmate.

Spare me Laughing

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:59 pm

Didge wrote:Yes the facts again which you have never been able to refute

Funny how you have no response yet again Sassy

That is what you call checkmate

They have been refuted, BY THE MAN DOING THE NEGOTIATING dumbass.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:59 pm

Irn Bru wrote:HE never saw Abbas again becausehe was out of office with no authority. Abbas never said no - fact.

Full sovereign statehood was never offered  - not ever - Fact.


Yes he did, you two are just the worst apologists of the fact the Palestinians have never had any intentionn of peace.
Their intent is to win the victim card to the point Israel loses all support and becomes to weak to defend itself
That is the intent of the Palestinians, who again is an invented nationality from only the last few decades.
The reality is they view and Abbas stated so recently that Israel has been in occupation since its creation.
The reality is they will never sign a peace treaty whilst Israel exists, and you to clowns can come out with as much bullas you like but this bullis being fed to Palestinians when they are toddlers, viewing all israel as occupied and to hate them.
So spare me the crap, its not buying Irn, as the Palestinians could have peace tomorrow if they choose to do so, but they refuse to do so because it has always been about Muslims having Muslim control over the lands.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:00 pm

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:HE never saw Abbas again becausehe was out of office with no authority. Abbas never said no - fact.

Full sovereign statehood was never offered  - not ever - Fact.


Yes he did, you two are just the worst apologists of the fact the Palestinians have never had any intentionn of peace.
Their intent is to win the victim card to the point Israel loses all support and becomes to weak to defend itself
That is the intent of the Palestinians, who again is an invented nationality from only the last few decades.
The reality is they view and Abbas stated so recently that Israel has been in occupation since its creation.
The reality is they will never sign a peace treaty whilst Israel exists, and you to clowns can come out with as much bullas you like but this bullis being fed to Palestinians when they are toddlers, viewing all israel as occupied and to hate them.
So spare me the crap, its not buying Irn, as the Palestinians could have peace tomorrow if they choose to do so, but they refuse to do so because it has always been about Muslims having Muslim control over the lands.


HE says he didn't and HE is the only one that knows the truth.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:01 pm

Talk about the pair with their heads in the clouds

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:03 pm

Didge wrote:Talk about the pair with their heads in the clouds

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!


Says the man who thinks he knows more that the person who was negotiating.   Didge, if you weren't arround, we'd have to invent you for the comedy value.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:04 pm

Palestinian Leader Admits He Rejected Statehood, Peace in 2008

Palestinian Authority (PA) President and Fatah movement head Mahmoud Abbas finally admitted in an interview with Israel’s Channel 10 on Nov. 17, 2015 that he had rejected an Israeli offer of Palestinian statehood and peace in 2008.
As the Times of Israel notes, the 2008 Israeli proposal had been previously reported but had not yet been acknowledged by Abbas (“Abbas admits he rejected 2008 peace offer from Olmert,” Nov. 19 2015).
The PA president admitted that then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert presented him with a map that illustrated prospective borders of a future Palestinian state, with Israel giving up 93 percent of the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and portions of eastern Jerusalem, in addition to all of the Gaza Strip. In the video-taped interview Abbas was asked by Channel 10 reporter Raviv Drucker about the Israeli proposal which included a swap for most of the nearly seven percent of the West Bank Israel planned to return.
“In the map that Olmert presented you,” Drucker asked, “Israel would annex 6.3 percent [of the West Bank] and compensate the Palestinians with 5.8 percent [taken from pre-1967 Israel]. What did you propose in return?”
Failing to answer the journalist’s question as to whether the PA made a counteroffer, Abbas stated that he rejected the Israeli offer “out of hand.” Perhaps Abbas did not answer directly because no evidence of his having made a counteroffer exists.
The 2008 Israeli proposal also included an offer of free passage between the Gaza Strip, ruled by Hamas, a U.S.-listed terror group, and the West Bank without any security checks. In the event that Fatah retook the Gaza Strip from Hamas, the offer would have recognized all of the Strip as belonging to the PA as well. In addition, the offer would have included Israel relinquishing control of Jerusalem’s Old City.
In the interview, Drucker again pressed Abbas on why he rejected a proposal for a Palestinian state. Abbas seemingly implied that it was due to Olmert only showing him the map reflecting possible borders for a state, but not letting him keep it.
However, as Olmert details, Abbas was offered to keep the map provided that he affixed his initials to it. According to former U.S. deputy national security adviser Elliott Abrams, who participated in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations during the time in question, Olmert likely did not want to give Abbas a copy of a map that wasn’t agreed upon—fearing the Palestinian side would use it to extract further concessions, without agreeing to Israeli demands to recognize the Jewish state and desist from supporting terrorist attacks against it (Elliott Abrams, Tested by Zion, Cambridge University Press, 2013).
The day after meeting with Olmert, Abbas called off talks, saying that he had to attend a meeting in Jordan. Subsequently, he never responded to Israel’s offer. In a Nov. 28, 2009 interview with The Australian, Olmert noted that Abbas “promised to return with his advisers the next day,” and after going to Jordan said, “let’s make it next week.” But “I never saw him [Abbas] again.”
As CAMERA has noted, Olmert later wrote an Op-Ed in The Washington Post where he said, “I cannot understand why the Palestinian leadership did not accept the far-reaching and unprecedented proposal I offered them” (“When Peace Almost Broke Out: A Washington Post Mirage,” Aug. 9, 2013).
This was not the first instance in which Palestinian leaders rejected an offer for statehood and peace with Israel while failing to make a counteroffer. Other relatively recent examples include an U.S. and Israeli offers in 2000 at Camp David, 2001 at Taba and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s proposed framework to restart negotiations in 2014.
The Channel 10 interview (in Hebrew) can be found here.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:07 pm

Oh my good grief, and you can't see why I say that can you.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:08 pm

Good greif sassy why are you so ignorant to the facts?

Seriously even the pair of you cannoit even present a comprehensive argument, but ignore countless facts.

Again they could have peace tomorrow but view all israel as ocupied, that is not a nation wanting peace.

fact

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:13 am

Didge wrote:

Palestinian Leader Admits He Rejected Statehood, Peace in 2008



Palestinian Authority (PA) President and Fatah movement head Mahmoud Abbas finally admitted in an interview with Israel’s Channel 10 on Nov. 17, 2015 that he had rejected an Israeli offer of Palestinian statehood and peace in 2008.
As the Times of Israel notes, the 2008 Israeli proposal had been previously reported but had not yet been acknowledged by Abbas (“Abbas admits he rejected 2008 peace offer from Olmert,” Nov. 19 2015).
The PA president admitted that then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert presented him with a map that illustrated prospective borders of a future Palestinian state, with Israel giving up 93 percent of the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and portions of eastern Jerusalem, in addition to all of the Gaza Strip. In the video-taped interview Abbas was asked by Channel 10 reporter Raviv Drucker about the Israeli proposal which included a swap for most of the nearly seven percent of the West Bank Israel planned to return.
“In the map that Olmert presented you,” Drucker asked, “Israel would annex 6.3 percent [of the West Bank] and compensate the Palestinians with 5.8 percent [taken from pre-1967 Israel]. What did you propose in return?”
Failing to answer the journalist’s question as to whether the PA made a counteroffer, Abbas stated that he rejected the Israeli offer “out of hand.” Perhaps Abbas did not answer directly because no evidence of his having made a counteroffer exists.
The 2008 Israeli proposal also included an offer of free passage between the Gaza Strip, ruled by Hamas, a U.S.-listed terror group, and the West Bank without any security checks. In the event that Fatah retook the Gaza Strip from Hamas, the offer would have recognized all of the Strip as belonging to the PA as well. In addition, the offer would have included Israel relinquishing control of Jerusalem’s Old City.
In the interview, Drucker again pressed Abbas on why he rejected a proposal for a Palestinian state. Abbas seemingly implied that it was due to Olmert only showing him the map reflecting possible borders for a state, but not letting him keep it.
However, as Olmert details, Abbas was offered to keep the map provided that he affixed his initials to it. According to former U.S. deputy national security adviser Elliott Abrams, who participated in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations during the time in question, Olmert likely did not want to give Abbas a copy of a map that wasn’t agreed upon—fearing the Palestinian side would use it to extract further concessions, without agreeing to Israeli demands to recognize the Jewish state and desist from supporting terrorist attacks against it (Elliott Abrams, Tested by Zion, Cambridge University Press, 2013).
The day after meeting with Olmert, Abbas called off talks, saying that he had to attend a meeting in Jordan. Subsequently, he never responded to Israel’s offer. In a Nov. 28, 2009 interview with The Australian, Olmert noted that Abbas “promised to return with his advisers the next day,” and after going to Jordan said, “let’s make it next week.” But “I never saw him [Abbas] again.”
As CAMERA has noted, Olmert later wrote an Op-Ed in The Washington Post where he said, “I cannot understand why the Palestinian leadership did not accept the far-reaching and unprecedented proposal I offered them” (“When Peace Almost Broke Out: A Washington Post Mirage,” Aug. 9, 2013).
This was not the first instance in which Palestinian leaders rejected an offer for statehood and peace with Israel while failing to make a counteroffer. Other relatively recent examples include an U.S. and Israeli offers in 2000 at Camp David, 2001 at Taba and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s proposed framework to restart negotiations in 2014.
The Channel 10 interview (in Hebrew) can be found here.

And where does Olmert say that Abass said no. Olmert himself said that he never said no.

Face it Didge - you're wrong. Read his interview.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:06 am

Olmert was close to peace deal, says Abbas

In comments set to stir Israel's election campaign, the Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, has said that he and former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert were "two months" away from a peace deal before Mr Olmert stepped down.

With Mr Olmert cleared of several corruption charges and considering a challenge to the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, at the parliamentary election next January, supporters have highlighted Mr Olmert's efforts to make peace with Mr Abbas in negotiations that foundered under Mr Netanyahu's right-wing coalition.

Speaking to Israeli politicians in the West Bank on Sunday, Mr Abbas said: "I worked hard with Olmert. Unfortunately, he suddenly retired. We discussed the borders, the exchange of territories and traded maps. We were close and reached many understandings."

Asked how close the pair were to a deal in 2008, Mr Abbas replied in English: "I'm sure if he continued, two months." Mr Olmert and other officials involved in those US-sponsored talks have spoken of progress in, for example, pencilling new borders to divide Israel from a new Palestinian state. But both Mr Abbas and Mr Olmert would have struggled to convince hardliners on either side to support any peace plan they might have produced.

Mr Olmert was once a member of Mr Netanyahu's Likud party but joined the centrist movement Kadima, which he led in government from 2006 before resigning in 2008 over corruption allegations.

   
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/olmert-was-close-to-peace-deal-says-abbas-8212505.html

Pretty much clears up this whole ssue.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:43 am

You can keep being in denial all you like Irn facts are facts and you have been rumbelled

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:09 pm

In September 2008, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas a map, a proposal that would give the Palestinians 93.7 percent of the West Bank, with Israeli territory to make up 5.8 percent, and a corridor to Gaza from the West Bank for the other 0.5 percent. Olmert insisted that Abbas initial the map before taking it. It was clear that this was Israel’s final offer. Abbas rejected it. He never met Olmert again.

Israel wanted to keep this failed negotiation a secret. The Palestinians had other interests, however, and that’s how I discovered the offer. This has been my news story since 2009. Then, media bias killed it. Now, the crippled state of media in the Internet era almost killed it. Almost.

In March 2009, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat was interviewed in Arabic on Al-Jazeera. When I saw the MEMRI translation I immediately understood its significance: Erekat disclosed that Abbas had turned down an offer that would have given the Palestinians a state in almost all of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and parts of Jerusalem. Then I found out about the map. No one else had the story.

Excited about this scoop, I raced into my bureau chief’s office at the AP in Jerusalem. Imagine my shock when I was told it’s not a story—and I was banned from writing about it. It just couldn’t be a legitimate story, in line with the new definition of journalism.

The profession I joined in the 1960s wasn’t about helping anyone. It was about reporting and explaining the news. This new definition of journalism, apparently requires choosing sides. This became clear to me as long ago as 1988, at the beginning of the First Intifada, when I saw a reporter jump out of her car in the middle of a Gaza riot and shout at the Palestinians throwing rocks at the vehicle: “Why are you doing this? I’m trying to help you!” Like most Western media sources, she wanted to frame the uprising—the Palestinians as people—as helpless victims, to pillory the Israelis as the cruel oppressors. Stories that didn’t fit that framework had a hard time seeing the light of day. Even a peace offer.

So, naturally, despite the fact that Israel offered the Palestinians a state twice—in 2000 and 2008—the world saw Israel as the intransigent side. The 2008 proposal was largely unreported in world media.

This month, Israel TV’s Channel 10 broadcast a three-part series of documentaries about the failed peace efforts of 2000 and 2008. The third part featured interviews with Olmert and Abbas. There, for the first time, Abbas admits what I knew six years ago: Olmert offered him the map and demanded that he initial it. “I did not agree,” Abbas told his interviewer. “I rejected it out of hand.” He claimed that he isn’t an expert on maps. In fact, he went back to his office and sketched the map from memory—quite accurately.

So there was my story. And again, no one was reporting it.

I left the AP in early 2014, so now, unlike 2009, I was free to write about it independently. I wrote an article that was quickly picked up by Jewish outlets, but I also wanted the general media to get this “news.” I found that top AP people were not aware of the interview, because they no longer have enough staff to put a senior editor on the evening shift. The ravages of the Internet age are evident throughout the industry, and cutbacks have affected news coverage as much as bias has.

When I explained to my former colleagues the significance of what Abbas said, the AP agreed that it was worth reporting. The AP story ran a full day after the Abbas interview was aired. From there it went everywhere.

It’s a temporary victory—the story of Israel’s generous peace offer and Abbas’s rejection is out there, finally, and making some waves. But, again, this is temporary, because the underlying bias, the framing of the conflict—strong, cruel Israel against weak, victimized Palestinians—has not changed.

And so, I’m left with a bitter observation: If this news is making waves now, imagine what would have happened if I had been allowed to report it in real time?

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/195315/missed-opportunity-olmert-abbas-and-media-bias

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:14 am

That's been debunked already by no less a person than Olmert himself - the man involved in the discussions with Abbas Laughing

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:16 am

Really, because you say so, poor boy ha ha

Seriously irn, you have been given such a spanking tonight, I doubt you will be able to sit on your arse for a week

Laughing

The evidence is overwhelming but ony a left wing antisemite who supports a regressive groups in Hamas that discrminates against women, homosexuals and Christians would say otherwise.

You have been exposed lol

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:26 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:Really, because you say so, poor boy ha ha

Seriously irn, you have been given such a spanking tonight, I doubt you will be able to sit on your arse for a week

Laughing

The evidence is overwhelming but ony a left wing antisemite who supports a regressive groups in Hamas that discrminates against women, homosexuals and Christians would say otherwise.

You have been exposed lol

Debunked by Olmert himself and now you are beginning to show narcissistic traits in your replies. Read Alon Ben-Meir's article to enhace your education.

I'm not wee Laughing

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:29 am

Really so your evidence is again of a convicted criminal.

Bless.

Has Olmert denied giving the map to Abbas?

Take your time wee boy ha ha ha ha

Laughing

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:57 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:Really so your evidence is again of a convicted criminal.

Bless.

Has Olmert denied giving the map to Abbas?

Take your time wee boy ha ha ha ha

Laughing

He wouldn't give Abbas the map That's even in the articles you post Laughing

Keep the insults coming - it's what you do when you blow up.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:00 am

ha ha ha ha ha

So hilarious again you failed to answer the question

Has Olmert denied giving the map to Abbas?

Take your time wee boy ha ha ha ha


I love insulting a thick regressiuve left wing fucking twat who supports the worst discrminating political group who has vowed to wipe out the Jews, that being Hamas.
Seriously, if you had any brains, you would take a gun to your head and pull the trigger, but you would clearly miss yoiur brains by a mile.


Laughing

One last chance dummy

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:11 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:ha ha ha ha ha

So hilarious again you failed to answer the question

Has Olmert denied giving the map to Abbas?

Take your time wee boy ha ha ha ha


I love insulting a thick regressiuve left wing fucking twat who supports the worst discrminating political group who has vowed to wipe out the Jews, that being Hamas.
Seriously, if you had any brains, you would take a gun to your head and pull the trigger, but you would clearly miss yoiur brains by a mile.


Laughing

One last chance dummy

He wouldn't give him the map. You know that's true so why are you denying it?

As for the rest of your post. That's you all over abuse and even more abuse and it gets worse as you descent into the mire.

Shocking way for anyone to behave in a debate.


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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:13 am

Did he show him the map?

Yes

Did it offer the majority of the west bank?

Yes

Did he reject the offer?

Yes\


Are you in denial again?

Yes


lol

Poor Irn ha ha ha

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:18 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:Did he show him the map?

Yes

Did it offer the majority of the west bank?

Yes

Did he reject the offer?

Yes\


Are you in denial again?

Yes


lol

Poor Irn ha ha ha

So now it's did he show him the map and not give him the map. You're coming round to the truth now.

Did he reject the offer? No, he didn't and Olmert said so.

You're in denial or else you are calling Olmert a liar.


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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:22 am

Irn Bru wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Did he show him the map?

Yes

Did it offer the majority of the west bank?

Yes

Did he reject the offer?

Yes\


Are you in denial again?

Yes


lol

Poor Irn ha ha ha

So now it's did he show him the map and not give him the map. You're coming round to the truth now.

Did he reject the offer? No, he didn't and Olmert said so.

You're in denial or else you are calling Olmert a liar.



Er Abbas said he did reject the offer

So did Saeb Erekat say the same
That is two against one

Oh dear

You have just proven how much you will do anything to lie and your chief witness has been found guilty of criminal activity lol


Sums you up

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:16 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Did he show him the map?

Yes

Did it offer the majority of the west bank?

Yes

Did he reject the offer?

Yes\


Are you in denial again?

Yes


lol

Poor Irn ha ha ha

So now it's did he show him the map and not give him the map. You're coming round to the truth now.

Did he reject the offer? No, he didn't and Olmert said so.

You're in denial or else you are calling Olmert a liar.



Er Abbas said he did reject the offer

So did Saeb Erekat say the same
That is two against one

Oh dear

You have just proven how much you will do anything to lie and your chief witness has been found guilty of criminal activity lol


Sums you up

OVER THE COURSE of almost two years, from December 2006 to mid-September 2008, Olmert and Abbas met 36 times. Lower-level talks were also going on, led by Israel’s foreign minister at the time, Tzipi Livni, and one of the Palestinian Authority’s longtime negotiators, Ahmed Qurei. These talks were the source for the “Palestine Papers” published by Al Jazeera just last month: notes from the Palestinian side on how negotiations were going. The top-level talks were considerably more important. The leaders never consummated a deal. But both had gone far enough to tee up new American “bridging proposals” that Abbas, in particular, was counting on. I spoke with Olmert this year in Jerusalem on the morning of Jan. 21, and that same evening with Abbas in Amman, Jordan. The leaders revealed in detail what was proposed, what was implicitly agreed, what the gaps were and what they suggested was susceptible to compromise.

Each told me that if new violence breaks out in Palestine, as seems quite likely, historians will look back with a sense of pathos on how narrow and, in some key areas, trivial the gaps were. “We were very close,” Olmert told me, “more than ever in the past, to complete an agreement on principles that would have led to the end of the conflict between us and the Palestinians.” Abbas said the talks produced more “creative ideas” than any in the past. He took pains to assure me that he had been most flexible on Israel’s security demands. Olmert, in retrospect, agrees, saying that Abbas “had never said no.” Olmert insisted that he had conceded to Abbas every major demand Palestinians had made for decades: a border based scrupulously on the 1967 lines, a Palestinian capital in Jerusalem and “recognition of the problem” of refugees. “I was ready to take complete responsibility and move forward forcefully,” Olmert told me. “I believed, I still believe, that I would have broken through all the barriers and won over public opinion in this country and the world.”

THE ISSUES THAT were supposed to be intractable — demilitarization of the Palestinian state, the status of Jerusalem and the right of return of Palestinian refugees — proved susceptible to creative thinking. Even on borders, Olmert and Abbas were able to agree on fundamentals: a desire to disrupt as few lives as possible and to maximize the contiguity (and therefore the economic possibility) of Palestinian cities. “We didn’t waste a minute during our months of negotiation,” Abbas said.

Where bridging proposals seemed most called for was over the extent and nature of land to be swapped — in effect, the fate of specific large Israeli settlements. The Israeli position, where it diverged from the Palestinian, was not about principle but focused primarily on the practical matter of how many (often violent) settlers the Israeli government would have to force back behind the Green Line. The most important discussions were on security, borders, Jerusalem and the Palestinian “right of return.”

Bernard Avishai

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Israel-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And Olmert laid the blame for the breakdown in negotiations at Tzipi Livni and Ehud Barak so go read Condoleeza Rice’s book No Higher Honor in which she says that Livni came to her and Abbas separately asking them that they not “enshrine” Olmert’s peace proposal. And that Barak sent representatives to Abbas to tell the Palestinian leader not to accept his proposal as he no longer had any authority to propose it.

Abbas never said no. Lies and deceipt Didge – you were sold a dummy.

So Olmert guilty of criminal activity makes hi unreliable then the offer of peace and the version of events that you are saying happened then that can’t be relied on from him either.

And of course I’m having this debate with someone who has also been convicted of criminal activity.....YOU.... so that’s a wrap.

cheers cheers cheers

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:21 am

So again omert the criminal is still your defense and again they have Abbas on Tv admit his guilt and not only abbas but Saeb Erekat  of which you have failed to refute Abbas even admits to the offer and even could draw the map from memory after the meeting. Like I say its so easy to show up a poor wet weaesel apologist who can only still go on about me when he is shown up in every debate we have. So my criminaility was on violence, not lies. I defended my nephew, from being attacked with a thrown chair which hit his head, does that make a criminal for how I reacted? Yes and I have to live with that, but the fact you use this against me in debates really just makes me laugh, as you cannot counter my points and thus descend to acting like a child
But you carry on being big behind your PC mate, it just cracks me up and sadly I have to live with tha fact I could get done again for any violence, but if you want to look immature playing on that it shows what kind of kind of a sad individual you are you are my mate lol. that is all you can when debating me. Showing that you basically conceed  Laughing

Its the funniest apologist posts you have ever made Irn but again the best deal ever was offered to Abbas which gave near all of west banl and part of Jerusalem which he rejected of which you refuse to accept.

I suggest you watch the videos and wipe that egg off your face mate

So its irreelevant who Olmert lays the blame on as we know Abbas rejected the propsosals and again Olmert is a crook conficted of crimes. He is your only defense a convicted criminal

Says it all lol and one caught out for lying as well


Now have you watch the TV footage of Abbas admitting he did refuse?
Or can you discount Saeb Erekat?

You have failed to do neither

One last chance


Checkmate

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:28 am

I watched the video and I don’t speak the lingo and I don’t think you do either. Is Abbas speaking in Arabic or Hebrew? The video is a sequence of trumped  edited clips and Abass has never denied refusing to initial the map ‘there and then’ simply because Olmert wouldn’t give him a copy to take away to study which is why he is having o draw it from memory so that sums that up . But even then Olmert said ‘he never said no to the offer on land swaps because that what the map was all about and it was only a part of the deal. So Olmert the criminal was telling the truth then but is a liar now? Lol. Once a liar always a liar and once a criminal always a criminal just like you Didge....correct?

Read the link I gave you from the guy that actually spoke to both Olmert and Abbas.

Meanwhile Livni who was part of the negotiating team denies that there was any offer to give up Jerusalem. Then Netanyahu pipes up claiming she is lying and she was part of the offer of a deal that did give it up. She then claims that he is lying and she didn’t.  So we have Olmert, Livni and Netanyahu all squabbling between each other calling each other liars – you couldn’t make it up lol.  It’s just a botched up piece of nonsense and propaganda for gullible people like you as part of the Likud Party’s voice to swallow and pass on.

It wouldn’t have mattered anyway because Livni stated that as part of the negotiating team she would never give up Jerusalem.  Netanyahu also made it quite clear that he would reverse any deal  made so Palestine were never going to get an offer of peace that would give them their own sovereign state so that’s your argument dead and buried..

And oh yes your criminal conviction for committing grievous bodily harm at the evening game at Highbury that never took place. There was no evening game at Highbury between Arsenal and Spurs in 1995 so that was a lie to start with. After supposedly charging through lines of Police and stewards any Spurs fan worth his salt would have looked down at you and patted you on the head and told you to run along and come back when you had grown up: loll:

I see elsewhere that you have been lecturing our American posters with your knowledge of Republicans, Democrats and the modern Tea Party all based on you travels to America yo say.  Well with a criminal conviction for causing actual bodily harm and a prison sentence to go with it your travel there must have been before 1995 no doubt a visit to Wally World with the Griswold’s siting in the back of their car. Bet you got annoyed with Moms and Dads sending their kids up to you to have their photograph taken standing beside you for their holiday snaps Laughing  

Told you before, Didge. You stop telling lies about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:16 am

lol still nothing to refute Abbas statingand admitting he refuesed the deal or also Saeb Erekat.
I have aready exposed sassy for being a left wing Nazi and you support the BDS, which proves you are a left wing Nazi, but we already knew this, being you openly suppoirt hamas, a group that denies equal rights to women, homosexuals and Christians and yet make no call to boycott them

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by nicko on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:12 pm

Telling us all about Didge's crimes is a bit below the belt isn't it?
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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:21 pm

Nothing didge hasn't spoken about before, in detail.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:25 pm

nicko wrote:Telling us all about Didge's crimes is a bit below the belt isn't it?

Hi Nicko

He uses the same methodology as the Nazis, he triesd to deligitimize humans and he is a mod which is the funniest part and he post just proves he lost the debate by descending as he did to again being in error.
Soam happy with that mate, he spends his life trying to find out every detail about me, that is called stalking and obsessed, he even records things I say on here and other forums, tad creepy lol

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:27 pm

You bloody liar, all Irn knows about you it what you have posted on here.  You really are despicable.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:31 pm

Irn is a low life terrorist supporting racist like you, one day karma will happen to him as it has to you.

The funniest thing is that he also is unable to check football as well, he made a fundemental erro as well.

The point is he is not debating the points as per usual because he lost the debate.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:36 pm

You're a liar.  That simple, and underhand trying to pretend that Irn posted something that your haven't already admitted to.   Despicable.

Lost the debate, yea right.  Trounced you, which is why you latched on to Nicko's post and lied through your teeth to try and look good.  Except you didn't, it just showed you up again as an outright liar and a manipulative twister.

Bloody

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:38 pm

You see you act as immature as he does, we have evidence of Abbas himself and also another witness to the events. The problem with you two is that you are Jew haters and I easily exposed this in regards to you
He is in error, he needs to do better research, even more so on football

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by eddie on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:57 pm

How the heck would anyone remember if there was a Spurs / Arsenal game in 1995?? scratch

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:04 pm

eddie wrote:How the heck would anyone remember if there was a Spurs / Arsenal game in 1995?? scratch


True anmd it has nothing to do with the debate clearly trying to derail I would say.
There are more than just league games as well

Not that it matters anywhere, cleary Irn seems to be a tad wound up.

Hey ho

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:50 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
nicko wrote:Telling us all about Didge's crimes is a bit below the belt isn't it?

Hi Nicko

He uses the same methodology as the Nazis, he triesd to deligitimize humans and he is a mod which is the funniest part and he post just proves he lost the debate by descending as he did to again being in error.
Soam happy with that mate, he spends his life trying to find out every detail about me, that is called stalking and obsessed, he even records things I say on here and other forums, tad creepy lol

Nicko, Didge lied to you plain and simple because I never looked that up. He put that on here about his criminal past all by himself. In doing that he has disrespected you by attempting to mislead you and everyone else.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Irn Bru on Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:54 pm

eddie wrote:How the heck would anyone remember if there was a Spurs / Arsenal game in 1995?? scratch

Didge remembered it well because it was him that brought it up in the first place - an evening game at Highbury between Arsenal and Spurs which of course never took place. There was no evening game and the whole story is a sham including his travel to the USA which of course couldn't happen because of his criminal conviction.

The US are a bit fussy about letting in violent criminals you know.

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:57 pm

Not mislead anyone and am on the back of national news paper for fighting.
In yoiur haste Irn, you think because I thought ut was an evening kick off, that its possible being 20 years ago I was mistaken what time the game was played?
I checked with my bro yesterday and it was that season,.

So irn, happy to admit I was mistake about the time, it certainly does not make me a liar does it?
What iut shows is you attempyed yo derail this thread,m by not attempting to debate b ut be fixated and obsessed with trying to get even with me for some lame reason

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:00 am

eddie wrote:How the heck would anyone remember if there was a Spurs / Arsenal game in 1995?? scratch


Exactly, I used to go everyweek to see Arseanal

Like I say irn has some immature vendetta with me, he is obsessed to try and deligitimize me all the time

Its pathetic

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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by sassy on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:02 am

You deliberately set out to make Nicko think that Irn has found out something you hadn't told him of your own violition, that's manipulation and deceit.    You were intentionally trying to make him believe something that you knew was untrue.

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sassy
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Re: Abbas Admits For the First Time That He Turned Down Peace Offer in 2008

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:05 am

Wrong and Nicko rightly called irn out for bringing this thread down with deflective abuse.
Not only that his intent was formed to make out I liefd, when I never lied, but was mistaken  to the time of the came. The fact is Irn set out and even researched into this for the sole purpose of trying to catch mne out, fopr the most obsessed immature reasons.
If he does not believe me, I am not concern, but the next time he breaks the rules as he did here, I shall report him

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