Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

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Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by sassy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:18 pm

Jeremy Corbyn won PMQs again, just like he did last week and the week before. That's a pretty strong winning streak. If he keeps this up, he'll be considered the default winner of PMQs and it'll be a shock when David Cameron comes out on top.

The key seems to be his intelligence and Cameron's relative weakness in debate. Corbyn started, really quite satisfyingly it has to be said, by again asking the same question he tried six times last week: could Cameron guarantee no-one facing tax credit cuts would be worse off? The prime minister was prepared this time. He cited income tax benchmarks and the so-called living wage, but his real response was effectively a game of chicken. He accepted the Lords vote, said he and Osborne were reformulating their plans for three weeks' time and told Corbyn he could ask the question another five times if he liked, but he'd get the same answer.

In the end, Corbyn only asked it another two times. Once he cited a Cameron ally and invited him to at least answer it from him. Then – more dangerously, he cited a veteran of the first Iraq war and invited him to answer him.  Both showed a certain canniness – a quick-footed understanding of how to formulate the question to prevent the prime minster dismissing it.

Then Corbyn moved onto the NHS and asked for a promise there'd be no winter crisis. Cameron avoided the question again and the same process was repeated.

The prime minister flailed all over the place. He resorted to reeling off related statistics, for instance on doctor numbers, which were strictly irrelevant to the question he was being asked. And he tried to fall back on his broader criticism of Labour, in the same manner that a man might slump on an old sofa after jumping over a barbed wire fence. Corbyn had stuffed his team with Stalinists and Trotskyists, Cameron said. He won "full Marx" (no, the joke didn't work spoken out loud, one wonders why anyone would think it would). He supported "crazy socialist" countries who cut their health services.

It was not a good look. No matter how proud the prime minister was of his prepared jokes, they looked churlish and irresponsible next to specific questions about the functioning of the health service. It's not fair. PMQs is not the place for forensic questioning and it has a long tradition of getting the upper hand through laughter. But something about the chemistry between Corbyn and Cameron made the PM look complacent about elderly people's deaths. His jokes weren't funny or effective. Corbyn came out on top in an effortless way which made Tory MPs look uncomfortable.

You can see the shock on the Tory benches when this happens. Most sit in glum silence. A handful get so angry they genuinely seem to be doing themselves a physical disservice. When they cheer a Cameron joke and chant 'more' there is an unmistakeable trace of desperation to it. It is increasingly clear Corbyn is a better PMQs performer than the prime minister.

This really doesn't change that much. Cameron's attacks on Corbyn's Stalinist economics will be far more effective at election time than they were in the Commons today. His broader point on Labour's unelectability is a genuinely deadly thing.

The public don't watch PMQs. The only extent to which it matters is how it influences the journalists who do, but they are all - almost to a man - hostile to Corbyn and will continue to be whatever he does. Corbyn is not going to win the election through PMQs. His only real chance of winning involves a cataclysmic event – probably an economic crisis - which fundamentally shakes up the realities of British political life.

But for what it's worth, he is currently hands-down the better performer. And the reason for that is because he is simply more quick-witted than the prime minister. That shouldn't be surprising. Cameron has spent years avoiding scrutiny and his aloof, superior personality means he is rarely challenged away from the camera. Corbyn has been standing up for unpopular principles, almost alone, for decades. It would be odd if he wasn't a more accomplished performer.

That, right now, is exactly what he is: better at it. Cameron will need to improve quite dramatically to best him.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/11/04/another-corbyn-victory-is-cameron-now-the-underdog-at-pmqs

He's making a complete monkey of him.  It's becoming more and more obvious that he has a script that he sticks to, can't answer the question (which is what he is supposed to do) and has things he has had written up by others beforehand to try and deflect.  It's getting really funny to watch, the Tories are getting louder and louder as they are getting more and more frustrated, very soon they will explode.

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by eddie on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:07 pm

This is what happens when people who debate, don't speak from the heart. They have no answers and no way of making anyone believe them.

Oh and, he's a liar of course.

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:11 pm

At PMQs Jeremy Corbyn can say what he likes without any constitutional repercussions. Cameron, as PM, can't.
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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Angry Andy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:22 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:At PMQs Jeremy Corbyn can say what he likes without any constitutional repercussions. Cameron, as PM, can't.

Evening m'Lord,hope you are keeping well.
Corbyn may not win the GE.,or the heart of the rw press, but few would deny his oratory skills hurt Cameron, who is losing credibility every time he speaks,due to his continued,provable lies and rehearsed soundbites.
With Osborne dithering over tax credits and May in a mess with immigration,Boris only needs to keep his powder dry, watch the tory party self destruct over the  next 3 years and he will become an almost uncontested leader.
Which paradoxically could be Labour's best chance at winning.


Last edited by Handy Andy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by sassy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:22 pm

Haute contraire Fred, Corbyn asked specific, to the point questions about things people want to know about, and Cameron waffled all over the place and resorted, as he always does when cornered, to personal abuse.  He looked a right wally.

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:31 pm

sassy wrote:Haute contraire Fred, Corbyn asked specific, to the point questions about things people want to know about, and Cameron waffled all over the place and resorted, as he always does when cornered, to personal abuse.  He looked a right wally.

Got to be a matter of opinion, Sassy, but the roles of PM and Leader of HM Opposition are entirely different. Cameron simply cannot give answers, on the hoof, which might impinge on matters of official Government policy. Corbyn's job is to try to cast doubt on those policies and to attempt to "wrong foot" the PM. And "questions about things people want to know about" are entirely subjective, are they not?

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:33 pm

Handy Andy wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:At PMQs Jeremy Corbyn can say what he likes without any constitutional repercussions. Cameron, as PM, can't.

Evening m'Lord,hope you are keeping well.
Corbyn may not win the GE.,or the heart of the rw press, but few would deny his oratory skills hurt Cameron, who is losing credibility every time he speaks,due to his continued,provable lies and rehearsed soundbites.
With Osborne dithering over tax credits and May in a mess with immigration,Boris only needs to keep his powder dry, watch the tory party self destruct over the  next 3 years and he will become an almost uncontested leader.
Which paradoxically could be Labour's best chance at winning.
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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by sassy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:34 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
sassy wrote:Haute contraire Fred, Corbyn asked specific, to the point questions about things people want to know about, and Cameron waffled all over the place and resorted, as he always does when cornered, to personal abuse.  He looked a right wally.

Got to be a matter of opinion, Sassy, but the roles of PM and Leader of HM Opposition are entirely different. Cameron simply cannot give answers, on the hoof, which might impinge on matters of official Government policy. Corbyn's job is to try to cast doubt on those policies and to attempt to "wrong foot" the PM. And "questions about things people want to know about" are entirely subjective, are they not?


You should watch, absolutely nothing like that.

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Angry Andy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:03 pm

Cameron looks tired, pressured and to be honest, a man on the brink of quitting.
He has a split cabinet on a number of issues,a chancellor the public and many tories have lost trust in, the ISIL dilemma of whether to bomb or not, the NHS in crisis, the Police service in chaos with unrelenting cuts and the refugee problem at Calais are just some of the immediate problems heaping up on him.

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by eddie on Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:31 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Cameron looks tired, pressured and to be honest, a man on the brink of quitting.
He has a split cabinet on a number of issues,a chancellor the public and many tories have lost trust in, the ISIL dilemma of whether to bomb or not, the NHS in crisis, the Police service in chaos with unrelenting cuts and the refugee problem at Calais are just some of the immediate problems heaping up on him.

I agree with you.
Possibly for the first time ever. lol!

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Angry Andy on Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:36 pm

All of that to contend with, together with the not inconsiderable matters of EC membership and Russian intervention in the middle east..
Many of there problems are too much for 1 man or one party to sort out policy on.
These issues need cross party consensus.

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Re: Another Corbyn victory: Is Cameron now the underdog at PMQs?

Post by Irn Bru on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:33 pm

Corbyn walked it just by being sincere and Cameron trying to be a smart-arse playing to the crowd. He lost.

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