Saddam Hussein was a socialist

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Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:26 pm



A leading member of the revolutionary Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, and later, the Baghdad-based Ba'ath Party and its regional organization Ba'ath Party – Iraq Region—which espoused Ba'athism, a mix of Arab nationalism and socialism—Saddam played a key role in the 1968 coup (later referred to as the 17 July Revolution) that brought the party to power in Iraq.

In the early 1970s, Saddam nationalized oil and other industries. The state-owned banks were put under his control, leaving the system eventually insolvent mostly due to the Iran–Iraq War, the Gulf War, and UN sanctions.[8] Through the 1970s, Saddam cemented his authority over the apparatuses of government as oil money helped Iraq's economy to grow at a rapid pace.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein


lol!


Most amusing!!!


But no real surprise there really...

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:39 pm

Another leftie and just another authoritarian regime that wants to nationalise everything...


lol!

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

A leading member of the revolutionary Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, and later, the Baghdad-based Ba'ath Party and its regional organization Ba'ath Party – Iraq Region—which espoused Ba'athism, a mix of Arab nationalism and socialism—Saddam played a key role in the 1968 coup (later referred to as the 17 July Revolution) that brought the party to power in Iraq.

In the early 1970s, Saddam nationalized oil and other industries. The state-owned banks were put under his control, leaving the system eventually insolvent mostly due to the Iran–Iraq War, the Gulf War, and UN sanctions.[8] Through the 1970s, Saddam cemented his authority over the apparatuses of government as oil money helped Iraq's economy to grow at a rapid pace.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein


lol!


Most amusing!!!


But no real surprise there really...


Don't know a lot about Iraq do you?

This from and Iraqi, not a Sadam supporter, born and brought up in Iraq.   Before the US sanctions, (which literally was the cause of the death of 100s of 1000s of Iraqi children) Iraq was the most progressive Middle Eastern country, and yes he did some terrible things, but Iraq has now been turned into a shit hole and the Middle East at loggerheads, because he held the balance of power:



Contrary to common belief, Saddam did have many positive achievements in both Iraq and the region. This does not erase the horrors that he's done, and definitely doesn't mean that I am a supporter of his. But, the question is asking about his positive achievements, and so I will answer accordingly. However, keep in mind that he made most of his accomplishments as vice president during the '70s (up until 1979) and as president during the '80s. Everything fell apart during the '90s thanks to the sanctions (more on that later).

Education

  • The National Campaign for Eradication of Illiteracy:

Refusing to send your child to school at the age of six was a crime punished by law, usually by prison time, under Saddam's regime starting from the late '70s and up until he was removed from power, and yes, that did include girls. Saddam was actually very supportive of women in that regard. In 1976, Iraq hosted the "Baghdad Conference for the Eradication of Illiteracy". Shortly after, he initiated the "National Campaign for Eradication of Illiteracy". The results were very positive, so much that Iraq was awarded The United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) prize for eradicating illiteracy in 1982, just three years after Saddam became president.[1]


  • Free Education

Education was made free to everyone in Iraq under Saddam's regime. This not only includes grade school, but also covers college and graduate level education.[2] It started in the early '70s and resulted, by the mid '80s, in an unprecedented 100% enrollment rates, and of course helped build a better educated middle class. Those years were called "The Golden Years" for the Iraqi Education System. [2][3]

Furthermore, government scholarships were given every years for hundreds, if not thousands, of Iraqis to study abroad. This resulted in a solid education system that enjoyed a reputation that made it the destination for many Arab students in the area, whom were also given free education.[4]


  • Educational Institutes

Out of all the universities in Iraq, only about four were established before Saddam's regime. The University of Baghdad, found in 1908 and the second largest Arab university after the University of Cairo, was only followed by ones in Mosul and Basrah, Iraq's other major cities, roughly 60 years later. Nowadays, every province in Iraq has a university of its own, if not more than one.[5][6]

Furthermore, a number of schools were built in every city, and at least one was built in every village in the country. Also, a pair of gifted schools were built and named after Saddam in every province, one for males, the other for females. I've personally graduated from one of those. Out of 90 students in my school's class of 2003, 40 got into Medical School, all of the rest became engineers. Those schools degraded significantly after 2003, I must say. One particular gifted school was built in Baghdad in 1998. Its Wikipedia article claims that its purpose was to prepare intelligent students for Saddam's service, and while that might very well be true, it provides no citations on the matter.[7]


Economy:

  • Nationalization of Oil:

As vice president, Saddam led the oil nationalization process for Al-Ba'ath party in 1972.[8] Western oil companies had a strong monopoly over the Iraqi oil production.[9] The aftermath of the nationalization was tripling[10] the Iraqi oil production in the first ~8 years, let alone not having to give percentages of the profits to non-Iraqi companies and strengthening the Iraqi economy in the process.


  • Agriculture and Empowering of Farmers:

While Feudalism was prohibited in 1958 by the July 14th revolution years before Al-Ba'ath party took charge, farmers were very much empowered by the government under Saddam regime. They were given pieces of land, loans, modern machinery, discounted seeds and water supplies, and every other resource necessary for them to thrive and succeed.[11] This also included the biggest land reclamation project in the history of Iraq, [12] since large areas of land became inarable in the beginning of the century. Saddam's river, also known as the third river, among other projects, was constructed to fight the issue, although that river was mainly constructed for the draining of the Hawizeh marshes to gain a tactical advantage over the Iranis during the Iran-Iraq war.[13]


  • Helping The Middle Class:

Saddam had numerous achievements in this area. Iraqis, and especially government employees, were given small pieces of land for them to build houses on, which was complimented by loans specifically tailored for that purpose. Houses and apartments were also given to some government employees. That either came in the form of living on government property without paying rent for college professors for example, but also manifested in building housing units that were given for free for people to own. Another way to give out housing units was by encouraging communities to collaboratively build housing complexes on government-owned land for those in need. I was unable to find any citations for this, feel free to post what you find in the comments and I'll update the answer accordingly.

Regionally, Saddam also had a number of achievements. An example is providing work opportunities for Egyptian and Moroccan famers. In 1980, the number of Egyptian workers grew to 1.5 million in Iraq. Saddam provided them with free health insurance and social security coverage as well. [12] This and other gestures towards neighboring Arab countries explain the outrage in the Arab world when Saddam was removed from power and later executed. Arabs viewed Iraqis as traitors since they only experienced the bright side of Saddam, and were spared the horrors that we suffered as his people.

Infrastructure:
Water and Electricity were made available to nearly every city and village in Iraq. "Model Villages" were built to provide farmers with better services and overall living standards. At least one school and clinic were built in every village. Roads were paved and modern highways were constructed all over the country. Bridges and recreational villages were built in numerous locations.

Work on the Mosul Dam, the fourth largest dam in the middle east, was started in 1980, a year after he became president and was finished 6 years later. A number of other modern dams were built during the '70s and '80s, giving Iraq more control over its water resources, and providing them with electricity. [14]

Furthermore, light and heavy industries flourished in the '80s as a part of a policy to decrease dependency on oil that Saddam deputed. [15] Large factories were built all over the country and Iraq was making its own radios, televisions, heaters, air conditioners, fridges, and just about anything else you can think of. My family still has some house appliances around that were made in Iraq during the '80s.

Healthcare:
Basic healthcare was free for everyone, and generally dirt cheap for anything that requires more than a simple visit to the doctor. Medicine prices were heavily discounted by the government. Things like birth control pills were made available, usually for free, for Iraqi women. Kids were vaccinated door-to-door by the government. Medical care reached 97% of the urban population and 71% of the rural population. Mortality rate was 50/1000 LB, infant mortality was 40/1000 LB. Hospitals were built in every city and the Iraqi healthcare system was known to be of very high quality, Iraq was actually about to gain developed country status, versus being a developing country.[16]

Additionally, a committee that answers to Saddam himself was initiated to evaluate cases that needed medical attention outside the country, and patients were flown to destination countries and treated all on the government's expense.


Conclusion:
I think it is fair then, given all of the above, to conclude that Saddam has had numerous positive achievements in Iraq, at least prior to 1991. He largely made Iraq a force to reckon with in the region. Iraq was the world's "Dubai" in the '80s because of, wait for it, him. He had his pitfalls, to make my understatement of the year, no doubt about that, but to say that he had no positive influence in Iraq is absolutely ludicrous.

I am by no means defending the tyrant, god knows, if there was a god, the outmost disdain I have for him. But the world will never know whether he would have continued his march towards that "developed" country status, had he not initiated the attack on Kuwait, and had America not gone out of its way to enforce the sanctions on Iraq. However, I want to make it very clear, as someone whose childhood was entirely spent in sanctions, that those sanctions did absolutely nothing to Saddam himself. They only broke every Iraqi's spirit very slowly through 13 years of suffering and poverty. I really wish Americans would learn from their deadly mistakes.


References:
[1] Illiteracy Rate in Iraq Climbs among Highest in the Region
[2] Education in Iraq
[3] Page on Ibo.org
[4] http://www.eurojournals.com/ejss...
[5] University of Baghdad
[6] List of universities in Iraq
[7] The Gifted Students' School-Iraq
[8] Iraqi Oil Nationalisation
[9] Iraq Petroleum Company
[10] Iraq National Oil Company
[11] http://www.nationalaglawcenter.o...
[12] Saddam Hussein: The Politics of Revenge
[13] Mesopotamian Marshes
[14] List of dams and reservoirs in Iraq
[15] Iraq Facts, information, pictures
[16] [url=http://www.health.mil/dhb/downloads/02_Jawad_Defence health board May 7 2009 JAWAD publish.pdf]Page on Www.health.mil[/url]

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-Saddam-Husseins-positive-achievements-and-progressive-contributions-to-Iraq-and-the-Arab-World

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Another leftie and just another authoritarian regime that wants to nationalise everything...
lol!

But I understand he was right-handed. It all equals out.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:39 pm

And in lieu of a good man or woman, Tommy uses his left hand. lol! lol!

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Another leftie and just another authoritarian regime that wants to nationalise everything...


lol!

Cause letting the ultra rich 0.01% own everything IS turinging out Real Great Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Irn Bru on Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:46 pm

Saddam was also one of the blessed Margaret's favourite tyrants.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/mar/17/thatcher-christmas-card-gaddafi-saddam

Even sent ghim guns and tanks and illegally tried to get away with more than that. Arms to Iraq scandal.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:44 am

Saddam was an economic socialist; but socially conservative- you know, like UKIP Smile

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:12 pm

The lefties don't like the truth, do they!?


He was a socialist and an Arab nationalist... so much like a 'national state socialist' you could say...


Now where have we heard that before...!?



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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:16 pm

Seems Tommy does not understand how actually people act when in power and bases his whole argument off a name and not only policies themselves. He forgets for example that when Hitler came to power within a year he eradicated many socialists from the Nazi party, in the night of the long Knives. Though its always amusing to see Tommy struggle with history.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The lefties don't like the truth, do they!?


He was a socialist and an Arab nationalist... so much like a 'national state socialist' you could say...


Now where have we heard that before...!?



I wonder which of Saddam's politics let to the killing of more people- his economic socialism, or his social conservatism/nationalism?

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:48 pm

lol!



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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:53 pm

No answer? Or is that pointless laughter because you know the answer?

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:03 pm

State socialism is completely a form of socialism, no matter how hard you try to divide it up into good leftie bits and bad righty bits... and like so many other forms of authoritarian socialism, it results in huge levels of civilian death and other types of brutality...

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:State socialism is completely a form of socialism, no matter how hard you try to divide it up into good leftie bits and bad righty bits... and like so many other forms of authoritarian socialism, it results in huge levels of civilian death and other types of brutality...

Scandinavian countries are all social democracies with very socialistic systems. Hardly authoritarian.

There was nothing socialist about Saddam's murders.

I am not the one initiating attempts to paint simple minded pictures. That is what you're doing.

"Saddam Hussein was a socialist. Socialists therefore are evil."

That is a simple minded nonsense. I'm responding in kind. You cannot draw a direct line from any socialist aspects of Saddam to his human rights abuses. You can however draw that line from his nationalism.

Are you saying authoritarian nationalism is benign? I'm guessing not, since even you aren't that stupid.

The problem (obviously) is authoritarianism, which is likely to lead to atrocities what side of the political spectrum it comes under.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:34 pm

While conservatives believe in small state and small state control or interference...

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:While conservatives believe in small state and small state control or interference...

Conservatives yes, Nationalists no.

Do not pretend there is no Nationalism in you. Plus, in terms of social attitudes Saddam was absolutely conservative, as you could expect any Islamic leader to be.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Conservative = small state, small state control, small interference from state...


Saddam was a socialist... and enforced a big state, big state control, big interference in everyone's life...



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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:49 pm

In fact socialism and nationalism go hand in hand...


Since socialists want to nationalise everything... which in itself is the essence of nationalism... owned by the people and for the people... of only that country of course...

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:58 pm

You have completely ignored my earlier mention of the Scandinavian countries. The most socialist countries in Europe- and with the highest standards of living.

You've also totally ignored the point on authoritarianism being the problem. Scandinavian countries are not authoritarian but they do practice a lot of socialist politics.

Understand these hardly subtle differences or stop discussing things in over simplified terms.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:14 pm

I never said that there weren't more conservative forms of socialism without the huge state interference...


Don't they also have quite small populations and large oil and gas reserves as well as large amounts of other natural resources..?



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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:22 pm

Everybody knows that a good socialist leader builds himself up to 100 palaces ...

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:23 pm

Although sometimes it's only a few...

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Eilzel on Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:01 am

Conservative forms of socialism... This discussion is boring now. See yah tommy.

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Re: Saddam Hussein was a socialist

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:In fact socialism and nationalism go hand in hand...


Since socialists want to nationalise everything... which in itself is the essence of nationalism... owned by the people and for the people... of only that country of course...


You didn't answer this crucial point les...

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